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Kirby Cosmology Upgrade Part 2
- Thread starter Peptocoptr27
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I believe if we treating Kirby as a 3 dimensional verse with time, then what say if Another Dimension can been argued as being a 4 dimensional construct that contain the universe or something akin to that.
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Kirby: Cosmology
vsbattles.fandom.com
It does say many dimensions, but I am unsure if this will count as timelines per se.
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Also this is what being say on Tier 2 on the tiering system too. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System#2-C:_Low_Multiverse_level
“Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:
A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.
B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.”
“Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:
A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.
B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.”
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Ik what it says but it does contain timelines as it can drag people from different time and spaces into the kirby universe.
Also containing dimensions but not timelines makes no sense as timelines are the space of a universe+ it's time and if there isn't a timeline then time wouldn't flow and thus it would only contain space without any movment.
Also containing dimensions but not timelines makes no sense as timelines are the space of a universe+ it's time and if there isn't a timeline then time wouldn't flow and thus it would only contain space without any movment.
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I was thinking along the lines if the dimensions are actually treated as timelines or pocket dimensions. Also it is a misconception as a universe are technically treated as spatial dimensions + one dimension of time, not the other way around as universes can contain timelines or pocket dimension for that matter.
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Not necessarily as time is technically a dimensionless unit as time isn’t always treated as a dimension all time.
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It is treated as the fourth dimension in most cases and thus it is treated as such in this wiki.
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Yeah, but there are times when there is a 4 spatial dimension without time.
Anyway, I am neutral overall.
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- #92
Time by itself is one dimensional. When added to a 3D universe, it becomes the 4th dimension.
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I know, but only when it is in theoretical physics and multiverses is where it is described. If it is time in general.
“Time is the continued sequence of existence and events that occurs in an apparently irreversiblesuccession from the past, through the present, into the future.[1][2][3] It is a component quantity of various measurements used to sequence events, to compare the duration of events or the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change of quantities in material reality or in the conscious experience.”
From the wikipedia page to being specific.
Also there is certain viewpoints that make it so time is dimensionless: https://phys.org/news/2012-04-physicists-abolish-fourth-dimension-space.html
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In any case, that's not how the Wiki treats time. Otherwise, the tiering system would be very different. If you have questions about that you should make a Q&A thread or ask staff members. Speaking of which...
If you want to support this thread, the best thing you can do is notify some of these people about its existence, preferably staff members who are likely to actually care and pay attention.
I've already contacted a few myself, to no avail. I personally wouldn't bother Effi with it yet since he most likely already knows this thread exists and is only gonna show up when he considers it to be necessary, which is fine by me.
If you want to support this thread, the best thing you can do is notify some of these people about its existence, preferably staff members who are likely to actually care and pay attention.
I've already contacted a few myself, to no avail. I personally wouldn't bother Effi with it yet since he most likely already knows this thread exists and is only gonna show up when he considers it to be necessary, which is fine by me.
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If I not mistaken, it is technically a case by case thing since there are some verses that may not use time as a dimension and goes by spatial dimensions only.
After all, not all fictional verses will share the same view of treating time as a 1 dimensional thing tbh.
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Pretty sure it's still the default assumption
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Probably is. In any case, still neutral overall tbh.
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To remove any possible skepticism about my translations and the sources they pull from, I verified my facts with a translation community.
My use of the term "Koeru (超えて)" is in fact the appropriate one.
The same goes for my use of "Jigen (次元)"
When applying this knowledge to every statement about Another Dimension that we have, we learn that it's a place which exceeds the limits of not only space and time, but also physical dimensions. And our standards support this being a Low 1-C statement, outright stating that no further context is required if the superiority is stated to be over
My use of the term "Koeru (超えて)" is in fact the appropriate one.
The same goes for my use of "Jigen (次元)"
When applying this knowledge to every statement about Another Dimension that we have, we learn that it's a place which exceeds the limits of not only space and time, but also physical dimensions. And our standards support this being a Low 1-C statement, outright stating that no further context is required if the superiority is stated to be over
physical dimensions. I'm still willing to patiently wait for more staff and I'm open minded to more skepticism but what else is there to say at this point? The Twitter statement so blatantly conforms to our standards that it's almost a word for word comparison.
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It does not because it does not confirm the the quantity it exceeds is a qualitive difference. Just calling something a mathematical dimension is as much a non-evidence as referring to it as simple a dimension.
My opinion is unchanged, and no you posting about how you don’t think it makes sense and how it could be nothing but apply for Tier 1 and is a text box example that is exactly how the FAQ describes does not change my opinion.
Here is my advise, forget about kanji and meaning and all that, because the Wiki does not care about all this despite how you are so focused on it. We care about actual statements and feats that show actual evidence that the difference between dimensions are qualitative, and until Kirby has those statements it is not reaching beyond Tier 2.
My opinion is unchanged, and no you posting about how you don’t think it makes sense and how it could be nothing but apply for Tier 1 and is a text box example that is exactly how the FAQ describes does not change my opinion.
Here is my advise, forget about kanji and meaning and all that, because the Wiki does not care about all this despite how you are so focused on it. We care about actual statements and feats that show actual evidence that the difference between dimensions are qualitative, and until Kirby has those statements it is not reaching beyond Tier 2.
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Cringe
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Anyways Pepto lemme put it this way.
These guys want to know whether or not this dimension is not like, 4.5 dimensional and such.
They're gonna ignore the fact that it does the things it does (causing time travel, being a place in between dimensions and such) and they're just gonna jump to whatever conclusion they have.
Basically as long as it doesn't state that the difference is infinite or is more real than the actual universes they ain't gonna budge.
What we do have is a 100% higher dimensional plane of reality but what people can't understand is why it would be exactly 5D when it could be below that.
Overall it's a load of "sTaNDarDs" BS that we should just move on from unless we find some other statement that fits their overly complicated and underexplained taste.
These guys want to know whether or not this dimension is not like, 4.5 dimensional and such.
They're gonna ignore the fact that it does the things it does (causing time travel, being a place in between dimensions and such) and they're just gonna jump to whatever conclusion they have.
Basically as long as it doesn't state that the difference is infinite or is more real than the actual universes they ain't gonna budge.
What we do have is a 100% higher dimensional plane of reality but what people can't understand is why it would be exactly 5D when it could be below that.
Overall it's a load of "sTaNDarDs" BS that we should just move on from unless we find some other statement that fits their overly complicated and underexplained taste.
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So that's why your opinion didn't change. Thanks for answering my question Everything12
"Dimension" can be used as a flowery word to mean "world" or "universe", but we know that it's not the case here. That's why specifying the dimensions are mathematical or physical is so important. Even if it wasn't, the FAQ would need to be changed again to suit that idea. This would be a decision I'd disagree with but I'd still see it as a win, personally. Two FAQ edits to deny one upgrade is pretty neat.
Your opinion may be unchanged, but do you still agree that the FAQ currently backs me up on this? Because it does. The same kind of goes for the statement on the speed page about how the space between dimensions is the 5th dimension... What's the deal with that? Does that need to be changed too? It's either misleading or contradicting.
...Bruh what? The Wiki doesn't care about meaning? That would make all statements unusable regardless of their source or language. Meaning is literally the most important aspect to figuring out a character's power because without it we can't even understand their stories, let alone make proper estimations and calculations about their potential. Without meaning, VS debating wouldn't even exist because feats, statements, estimations, educated guesses and power-scaling are all bound by meaning. I'm gonna be honest man. I don't feel like you're really listening to me. I'm sorry if my tone comes off as more hostile than it needs to be, but the thing is that we already went over this.
What kind of statements? Practically no verse ever says stuff like "This 5 dimensional plane of existence is uncountably infinitely superior to our 4 dimensional space-time continuum." Reality fiction differences can easily seal the deal, but they're not the only way to reach tier 1 for obvious reasons. To give your stance on how you believe tier 1 can be achieved without reality fiction interactions or statements that are basically never said, please go to this thread.
To that I say "In what way could it be below that?" 4.5D can't be a thing because 2.5D doesn't make any sense either. You could say it's a bigger 4D hypervolume, but no one has explained how that's the most logical explanation given the nature of the statement. Not only does it seem like downplay for downplay's sake but I straight up see it as making objectively less sense.
Guardian_Doge
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This is the first time I see this brought up. Is there a single verse where this principle is applied?
ShakeResounding
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Sonic the Comic's verse has universes that have 4.5 dimensions. That's the only one that springs to mind. I don't even know what 4.5D would be
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seems pretty simple, agree
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Let's continue this discussion here
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https://vsbattles.com/threads/tiering-system-faq-correction.127722/
This did get accepted, but anyway, still neutral overall.
This did get accepted, but anyway, still neutral overall.
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Yeah I know. It was never the backbone of my argument but I like to think that this upgrade still played a very major role in this FAQ change (Just like Bleach and DBH did lol).
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Was gonna say this was completely f***ing dumb as I see Low 1-C Kirby as, ridiculous on so many levels. Then I realized this is just the cosmology, anyway, neutral, leaning towards agreement.
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nah if this gets accepted kirby is becoming low 1-c
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Really?!
Challenge, I leave if I see low 1-C Kirby, the mind **** is too much for my mind
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Dude, not necessarily.
That seems like a bad mindset to have, but this is just the cosmology indeed.
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I was kinda half joking and half serious, would definitely have to rethink my life choices though
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- #117
Bump
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We need more mods apparently
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