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It would simply be another level, or simply state, of existence, a franchise could have infinite number of them, but what makes something a concept is different than simply being from a higher level of existence.Nehz XZX said:Well, if hearts aren't concepts, what are they then? They are not part of the body, are treated separate from the soul and the mind and exist everywhere. As what would the ability to manipulate hearts qualify?
This video at 20:52: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8TBDdadfQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1256. Chirithy says that Sora already brought back six hearts after they've faded from existence with the implication that Kairi's heart also faded from existenceSera EX said:Xehanort didn't kill Kairi. That's all I'm saying here.
Same. Not buying the OP.DarkDragonMedeus said:I agree with Triforce and DragonMaster
Objects can also be non-physical or intangible; as the creator of the page here, I will say it does Non-Physical Interaction does apply to those too. I guess I will have to update the page soon or later since there is confusion on the wording.Nehz XZX said:Hearts are definitely non-physical but the page for Non-Physical Interaction specifies that it is for "beings" so it doesn't really fit.
That's because we concluded it's redundant as Conceptual Manipulation exists, meaning that it actually would fall as Concept Manip.Dragonmasterxyz said:To be quite honest, we've never had "Essence Manipulation" on site due to it not really being needed before.
Essence Manipulation is not Conceptual Manipulation though. Not once have we done that. Ex in fact just explained Essences here.Bobsican said:That's because we concluded it's redundant as Conceptual Manipulation exists, meaning that it actually would fall as Concept Manip.Dragonmasterxyz said:To be quite honest, we've never had "Essence Manipulation" on site due to it not really being needed before.
Wait for my main reply to your points, however.
Regarding 4): If Sora time travels to a point before a heart ceased to exist in order to collect it, then there shouldn't be anything contradictory since the heart exists in the time he traveled to. It just wouldn't exist in the time he came from.Dragonmasterxyz said:1) Because there is not legitimate concept of a "heart". Heart here is just an essence, not a concept.
4) He time travels to collect a heart that doesn't exist. See how that's contradictory?
1) See my reply above regarding concept typesDragonmasterxyz said:1) Because there is not legitimate concept of a "heart". Heart here is just an essence, not a concept.
4) He time travels to collect a heart that doesn't exist. See how that's contradictory?
It would simply be the Kairi from the past. Kairi existed in the past which is why pieces of her heart that Sora could collect existed. Him collecting the pieces resulted in her being recompleted, brought to the Final World and then going to the present.Dragonmasterxyz said:4) Yes it is. Is this a different timeline's Kairi? Is this the same Kairi? The issue is that the current Kairi's heart should not exist in general. Yet he's able to put it back together. And even ignoring this, this is nothing but basic EE. Nothing truly conceptual.
In that case, manipulating Kingdom Hearts should qualify as Conceptual Manipulation since it is the embodiment of all hearts. This would apply to the X-Blade which is explicitly used for that purpose and the regular Keyblade since the Guardians of Light managed to hold Kingdom Hearts back to some degree.Executor N0 said:@Bobsican And this is why I said that we need to be more clear about that. "singular essences" and "universal concepts" can exist at the same level, but still be different simply because the singular is a part of the universal.
Light and Darkness makes up all existence, well then this would be a universal. The heart is made up of light and darkness, this would still be at the same level, but it wouldn't be a concept. Is just like the darkness as a whole is a concept, but I destroying the darkness in your body isn't conceptual destruction. It is still at the "same level of being", but the darkness itself would be a concept, while the darkness in your body would just be a part of the whole, something that is "particular" and not "universal".
Light and Darkness as a whole would be a concept (Or something like that), but what is made of these two at the same level, wouldn't really be. If everything has an individual heart, then each of these hearts are simply particular essences, unique to each being.
To a heart be a concept, something universal, it would be something like the heart of the whole "world", what makes the "world" the "world" or something like that.
I did remove Conceptual Manipulation from the page of the X-Blade so I would still have to re-add it.Dragonmasterxyz said:No one disagreed with manipulating being Conceptual Manipulation. The X-Blade is perfectly fine.
Actually, "worlds" themselves in KH have "hearts" too, and KH is the ultimate culmination of those, not only of "worlds", but also of the "heart" of anyone, and it's even stated that "Light" and "Darkness" all came from Kingdom Hearts itself.Executor N0 said:To a heart be a concept, something universal, it would be something like the heart of the whole "world", what makes the "world" the "world" or something like that.
Sorry for that. That happened to me a few times as well. I don't know how long your reply was though.Dragonmasterxyz said:Oh great, the wiki just ate my reply...>.>
Whatever, Ex explained it better....(I'm not retyping all that)