Kingdom Hearts Miscellaneous CRT

[Nehz_XZX]

this is a video i found that has some interesting stuff, watch past 7 minutes and 15 seconds.
btw, sorry for my sudden out of nowhere appearance.

There is no issue with commenting if you have something to say though I think that this is rather off-topic since this isn't connected to what is currently being discussed. I've already seen this video though discussing this is probably more appropriate in a different thread.

 

[RH0904]

sorry about that, Nehz, but i dont there's a thread for this video's topic.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

sorry about that, Nehz, but i dont there's a thread for this video's topic.

There is the General Discussion Thread for Kingdom Hearts though it isn't used much. You could also make your own thread for the topic. Alternatively you could discuss this on Discord since we have a Kingdom Hearts Discord server.

 

[Elizhaa]

It does sound like potency as Glassman explained. I don't think rare in fiction, given cases like instant death with rank.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

It does sound like potency as Glassman explained. I don't think rare in fiction, given cases like instant death with rank.

I don't really know much about that example but how would that relate to the Power Nullification and cards with a value of 0 bypassing any other value?

 

[Bobsican]

If a lower value gets completely negated by a higher value card, then the higher value card has stronger abilities, simple as that. That's literally what the card system says, and it's still not res negging cause you're using a higher numbered number that stops any lower value, that's just a layered hax.

It being resistance negation was already sufficiently proven though. Lethal Flame works on opponents who explicitly are resistant to time abilities and keyblade cards, alongside other cards having light and darkness concepts tied to them work on characters who are normally resistance to these things.

The very definition of Resistance Negation is: the ability to remove an opponent's ability to resist certain effects, allowing the user to then affect them with those abilities. In extreme cases, this ability can even override apparent immunity.

If a character can resist the abilities of the Keyblade and abilities that stem from light/darkness yet can still be effected by these things. It's negation and not higher potency. We know this is the case because Keyblade abilities don't work off the notion of "stronger = better hax" and instead have general abilities (which also applies to Light and Darkness in general).

There is no evidence of a "higher potency" here and the notion that it's potency was already debunked at that. Cards aren't just abilities but also the ability to do things and so on. This is why it was mentioned here that unrelated cards can still "break" other cards of lower value (Item Cards breaking Friend Cards for example), because this flies in the face of potency being what's happening here.

How does using an item have more potency than summoning... Yeah, it doesn't because it's not potency or has anything to do with the concept in general.
The only way it would be "layered hax" is if the number of the cards directly correlated to power and the likes. That isn't the case as proven before (aka, this post), it's just merely value and has no direct correlation to potency (again, a Item Card can break a Friend Card, a Friend Card can break an Attack Card and the list goes on). These are clear pieces of evidence against the idea that cards are valued by potency

The whole point of resistance negation is the fact that you ignore their resistance regardless what their immunity is, even if you use a weaker spell and it works on them, that's resistance negation, if a weaker card that sora uses becomes useless because of a higher value card, and vice versa, that's not resistance negation, that's only layered hax, so for once give me something that has the cards ignore any and all resistance regardless if they have a higher number or not.

But where are you getting that Sora's abilities are higher spells or versions of certain abilities however? That's not indicated anywhere and again, values in the card system aren't measured in power as proven above. It would be illogical to really assert that unless you are trying to say that using an item has more power than summoning or a basic attack. Obviously it doesn't work that way and the value is just merely layers of resistance negation per the premise we indicated above

We've already given you that. Keyblade cards have the same abilities as a Keyblade and it effects characters who are normally resistant to keyblade abilities. How about the various light and dark cards (which has the same abilities that light and dark has within this verse) still working on characters who are naturally resistant.

Even a Level 1 Card has negation for the reasons above and it only stacks from there like how indicated in the CRT itself. All in all, it's resistance negation and moving goalposts doesn't change that our premise is supported and yours is going off of a misunderstanding of the system itself

Anyways...

I admit I lost track of the debate because of the sheer amount of messages.

Can someone provide a summary of the two opposing sides' arguments?

My side: Cards provide resistance negation layers based on the premise outlined in the OP and the above, with such aspect not just being "hax layers" out of being entirely unrelated to physical stats in relation to suppressing opposing moves and resistances.

Glassman's side: Cards are "hax layers" because there's an implication on that out of relying on numbers, even if that's not solid on its own (IMO, an implication is less solid than a proper statement or the like to say the least), and semantics at play outweight his claim and just make it more assumptive over those just being resistance neg layers.

After a certain point the arguments mostly went in circles, so even if there's still a lot to read anyways, this is the most I can summarize the stuff without leaving out relevant details for the sake of evaluation.

BTW, credit to SuperBearNeo for considerably helping on the arguments.

 

[Theglassman12]

Congratulations on ignoring the next line in the resistance negation page.

However, simply overwhelming something with Hax stronger than what they can resist normally wouldn't qualify.

Except the card system having the "higher numbers stop the lower numbers" which btw you're saying is canonical in your own post, says otherwise. That heavily implies it's a higher potency and not resistance negation. So the item example you're using doesn't matter because it's still in the rules of the card system, which again is canonical going off your own OP and scan.

The only thing you have that can remotely prove it's res negation is the number 0 card since that just ignores any and all cards. Every other card number doesn't really help when they can't surpass a higher number card.

Also I'd like to ask, who exactly resists the keyblade's abilities in the series that gets negated in CoM? Cause unless they have specific lines that implies a keyblade won't work on them, I severely doubt they resist it given what I know of the series.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think about the last two posts, @Elizhaa and @SamanPatou ?

 

[RH0904]

Bump.

 

[Bobsican]

Except the card system having the "higher numbers stop the lower numbers" which btw you're saying is canonical in your own post, says otherwise. That heavily implies it's a higher potency and not resistance negation. So the item example you're using doesn't matter because it's still in the rules of the card system, which again is canonical going off your own OP and scan.

Glass, this is ad nauseam at this point, and has already been addressed. Potency has nothing to do with this and I've already refuted the case several times. We're going back in circles and nothing's progressing. The fact that non-combative cards can break combative cards such as an item card breaking an attack card off simply being of an higher value already debunks the notion that card values correlate to potency in any meaningful way.

The rules mentioned in the OP are just a loose description of it, right now I'm explaining to you how it works in fuller detail. Mentioning that doesn't change what is presented in the gameplay itself, which is that higher values of any kind break lower values. It doesn't matter if it's an attack card, friend card or whatnot, if it's of a lower value, then it'll be broken and this flied in the face of any potency arguments unless you're claiming using an item is more stronger than actually attacking someone or that there's a potency in the ability to summon (which'd require more assumptions otherwise to say the least).

The only thing you have that can remotely prove it's res negation is the number 0 card since that just ignores any and all cards. Every other card number doesn't really help when they can't surpass a higher number card.

Why is the Number 0 card resistance negation but not the rest of the cards? We already have cards with light and darkness elements working on characters who already are resistant to either, or Keyblade abilities working on characters who normally aren't affected by it or nuked by its side effects (such as erasing upon weakening).

The Number 0 card just negates any other card, but the effect itself is no different from what a higher value card can do to a lower value card. It's simply a Number 0 card is mostly guaranteed to function in certain circumstances where numbered cards aren't, or in other words they simply aren't bound by the rules of the card system and just work regardless of the circumstances.

Also I'd like to ask, who exactly resists the keyblade's abilities in the series that gets negated in CoM? Cause unless they have specific lines that implies a keyblade won't work on them, I severely doubt they resist it given what I know of the series.

Zexion was capable of copying Sora's powers and use light in the process, and was erasing Riku with it until he entered Dark Mode, which is empowered by cards.

Even beyond that, we have time stop cards being able to work on the Heartless, beings who explicitly aren't affected by time due to being native to the Realm of Darkness (Which is timeless) or going back to the Zexion fight... There's Zexion being able to affect Riku (even in Dark Mode) despite the fact he's resisted the light before

----

Anyways, to avoid going in circles further I'll politely ask everyone else to voice their thoughts on the matter based on the above.

 

[SamanPatou]

I honestly don't know which side to take.
I get that even "not-potency-related" cards negate number cards, but still, I'm genuinely unsure on how we should treat this thing.

 

[Antvasima]

I honestly don't know which side to take.
I get that even "not-potency-related" cards negate number cards, but still, I'm genuinely unsure on how we should treat this thing.

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

Can each side of this argument explain your case in an easy to understand manner please?

 

[SamanPatou]

I get the points, it's basically the fact that cards with higher numbers overwhelm those with lower numbers, but then even cards totally unrelated from numbers can have the better over numbered ones, which would point out to the system not being entirely based on the potency of cards, but the whole thing is so convoluted that I find it difficult to say with certainty if it's a case of sheer potency, resistance negation or just how the cards interact with each other and nothing else.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Perhaps we should simply use "Possibly Resistance Negation" in all of the affected pages then, in lack of better options?

 

[Bobsican]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

Can each side of this argument explain your case in an easy to understand manner please?

On my part, I believe the cards provide resistance negation layers based on the premise outlined in the OP and the above, namely how they supress powers and resistances even with this effect being unrelated to the move at hand, often the move in question not even being offensive yet suppressing stuff on the opponent anyways, with such aspect not just being "hax layers" out of being entirely unrelated to physical stats in relation to suppressing opposing moves and resistances.

The main argument against this is the "fact" they rely on numbers (check the link for context), which doesn't hold up when it's just an implication that's far outweighted by the proper semantics as a whole, making that claim more assumptive to say the least.

Okay. Perhaps we should simply use "Possibly Resistance Negation" in all of the affected pages then, in lack of better options?

As for this, well, that'd seem rather inappropiate when the argument against it is rather weak at most, if anything it'd concede a "likely" on that regard.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Would "Likely Resistance Negation" be fine with you, @SamanPatou , @Elizhaa , @Theglassman12 , and @Nehz_XZX ?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay. Would "Likely Resistance Negation" be fine with you, @SamanPatou , @Elizhaa , @Theglassman12 , and @Nehz_XZX ?

I'm honestly not entirely sure myself. Theglassman12's argument seems to be mostly about the card system using numbers which I don't think of as particularly convincing on its own. I've already mentioned previously how the interaction between cards with different values is already denoted as Power Nullification and merely lack explanations about how high the values can get and what a card with a value of 0 does, so I would personally be satisfied if that gets explained on the relevant profiles regardless as what we classify that as.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

Further input from other members would be appreciated.

 

[Theglassman12]

You keep saying that but you keep ignoring the fact that the card system being canonical dismisses your entire point on the absurdity of item cards beating summon cards because it's following the rules of the card system. So you can keep saying it's absurd that certain things can happen, doesn't change the fact on the card system.

Because unlike the other cards, Number 0 ignores literally anything. No ifs ands or buts. It just flat out ignores them and is capable of bypassing any cards regardless of their potency, that's resistance negation. Not having a higher number beat a lower number.

That doesn't look like a resistance feat for Riku, that looks like he just tracked Zexion down and was able to strike him down before he can do any more damage.

@Antvasima for the record, number 0 cards having resistance negation I'm fine with, the other cards I'm not fine with.

 

[Elizhaa]

If zero cards can break things like resistance/resistance cards, I am also fine with them having resistance negation. The other cards seem to work on higher potency as Theglassma12 explained.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It seems like a staff conclusions has been reached regarding the issue then. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm still working on a reply, especially with how nearly everyone's kinda confused on the stuff either way and there being some blatant misconceptions worth talking about, we're in no hurry.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that we can wait then.

 

[Bobsican]

It does sound like potency as Glassman explained. I don't think rare in fiction, given cases like instant death with rank.

In regards to the mentioning of Instant Death's ranking system. I don't really see how that's accurate to the card system. The value system in Chain of Memories isn't based on solely the ability to attack things but it also governs how your interact on the battlefield, how you preform actions and so on. It's quite literally an all-encompassing system that governs everything, not just combat.

Also, by definition it's not potency anyways because things like using items and the act of summoning have no inherent potency to them to begin with. These are things are just absolute things that either you can do or don't. You can potentially summon or use an item more effectively than someone but you can have more potency in your ability to use an item or summon because that's just not how something absolute works.

It's basically like saying you can have more potency in how you breath air. It doesn't make sense because you can't breath air more potentially than another person who breaths air, you can either breath air more effectively, differently or not at all....The bottom line is potency here isn't inherent to these concepts.

You keep saying that but you keep ignoring the fact that the card system being canonical dismisses your entire point on the absurdity of item cards beating summon cards because it's following the rules of the card system. So you can keep saying it's absurd that certain things can happen, doesn't change the fact on the card system.

How does it dismiss the entire point? Your argument here is that "this absurd thing is already happen cuz card system, so we can just assume another absurd thing is happening cuz card system" which is just a "correlation equals to causation" fallacy and not an actual refutation to the points brought up. The bottom line is that potency has no evidence of being the case here and those examples prove that on every level. Using an item and summoning have no inherent potency tied to them yet still break any card that possesses a lower value than it.

It's negation unless you can provide how it's potency to support your argument as opposed to assuming that based on nothing. You keep repeating this "potency" argument but you have literally nothing to base it on. The numbered system doesn't support it, the actual gameplay doesn't support it, the cards themselves don't support it... This is coming from nowhere and yet you are pushing this argument as if it's the positive the claim when it's a negative claim with no substantiation, and the burden of proof would thus be on you to say the least.

Because unlike the other cards, Number 0 ignores literally anything. No ifs ands or buts. It just flat out ignores them and is capable of bypassing any cards regardless of their potency, that's resistance negation. Not having a higher number beat a lower number.

That has never ever been a standard and thus your argument doesn't apply here. It doesn't need to work on "literally anything", resistance negation is simply the ability to bypass resistances. As long as it's not bypassed cause "stronger version of X ability" then it's resistance negation, which isn't the case here nor is there really any evidence for that being the case.

Again, where is this "potency" argument coming from? It has no basis and the only thing close to an argument that can be made is because it's a value system and numbers can denote "potency" but this is yet another correlation equals causation point and not a refutation to anything that's been presented. We have no evidence that the values of the cards are potency and if anything, that's just not true at all (unless you wanna argue that the act of summoning and merely using an item has potency/is comparable to just actually attacking and harming an opponent).

Glass...At this point, it's as simple as "prove that numbers and value in this case denote potency" and then you'll have a point, otherwise this is ad nauseam based on misunderstandings and fallacious points.

That doesn't look like a resistance feat for Riku, that looks like he just tracked Zexion down and was able to strike him down before he can do any more damage.

@Antvasima for the record, number 0 cards having resistance negation I'm fine with, the other cards I'm not fine with.

That's not exactly what happened. Riku was directly exposed to the light and Zexion used a light ability on Riku. This means he has inherent resistances to light as those affiliated with it are resistant to light techniques (as much as characters like Sora are immune to the Radar Zap effect out of that) and this includes the abilities of Keyblades (as they're generally weaponized light). Yet Riku could still harm him with both such weapons and also with light abilities.

This also isn't including that Black Coats have resistance to the darkness (like multiple statements of such) and yet Riku (in Dark Mode) can clearly bypass this too and this isn't even accounting for the fact that Castle Oblivion's nature is a result of light techniques. It was done by the power in Master's Defender, a Keyblade Aqua used to hide Ventus in there by turning Land of Departure into Castle Oblivion.

I also noticed how you had nothing else to say about the other examples. Either way, they support the argument that cards inherently have resistance negation and it just merely stacks with the value of the cards themselves.

stuff

Gotta also "quote" something so SamanPatou gets notified and gives his updated thoughts on the matter, if any.

 

[Theglassman12]

Because the card system follows its own rules, which is canon going off your scan. So you can keep saying "it's ridiculous for an item card to beat a summon card" as much as you want, the fact that it's part of the system means the absurdity of it is irrelevant, because that's the rules of the card game, I don't see why I have to explain myself on something this basic. A bigger number card not having a lower card nullify it is potency, not negation. The numbered card system does support it, and you have no right telling me the gameplay doesn't support it when you're arguing the gameplay part of it is canon. So pick a ******* side for once, is the gameplay of the card system canon or not cause you're not being consistent here.

Congratulations you completely missed the point I made, the number 0 card negates any higher number card regardless, it's the same way how certain spells negate anyone's resistance to spells regardless if they had an immunity to said spell. I already explained this, I'm not going to repeat myself, so for once pay attention to my arguments.

When did that automatically mean he resists it? Nothing about that implies a resistance, especially when other organization members die and get affected by the light from a keyblade. Give me an actual statement that the wielders of light resist light powers, cause the only thing you've proven for resistance here is the cloaks resisting the effects of the darkness. Nothing about resisting the light.

 

[Antvasima]

@SamanPatou @Nehz_XZX @Elizhaa

What do you think about the last few posts in this thread?

Theglassman seems to make sense to me, but I am not a good person to ask.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Because the card system follows its own rules, which is canon going off your scan. So you can keep saying "it's ridiculous for an item card to beat a summon card" as much as you want, the fact that it's part of the system means the absurdity of it is irrelevant, because that's the rules of the card game, I don't see why I have to explain myself on something this basic. A bigger number card not having a lower card nullify it is potency, not negation. The numbered card system does support it, and you have no right telling me the gameplay doesn't support it when you're arguing the gameplay part of it is canon. So pick a ******* side for once, is the gameplay of the card system canon or not cause you're not being consistent here.

I think that the points that Bobsican made have nothing to do with the canonicity of the card system if I understand them right. It's basically about whether or not the card system's usage of numbers conclusively means that the numbers on the cards denote potency instead of anything else. Items and summon cards are brought up as examples due to how the idea of potency interacts rather weirdly with them from a logical perspective especially in the context of them beating magic and attack cards if they have higher values.

 

[Theglassman12]

It acting rather weirdly doesn't change the fact that it's how the card system works, a higher number card stops a lower number one from working and proceeds to work, while none of the lower number cards except for 0 can do anything to the higher ones. The fact that the same number cards cancel each other out due to being the same value as opposed to it being overpowered heavily implies a potency here as two equal forces would just cancel out. If it wasn't a potency thing then the cards would just work regardless of the numbers, but the fact the numbers have an affect on the game implies there's a hierarchy in terms of the cards.

 

[Bobsican]

Because the card system follows its own rules, which is canon going off your scan. So you can keep saying "it's ridiculous for an item card to beat a summon card" as much as you want, the fact that it's part of the system means the absurdity of it is irrelevant, because that's the rules of the card game, I don't see why I have to explain myself on something this basic. A bigger number card not having a lower card nullify it is potency, not negation. The numbered card system does support it, and you have no right telling me the gameplay doesn't support it when you're arguing the gameplay part of it is canon. So pick a ******* side for once, is the gameplay of the card system canon or not cause you're not being consistent here.

Congratulations you completely missed the point I made, the number 0 card negates any higher number card regardless, it's the same way how certain spells negate anyone's resistance to spells regardless if they had an immunity to said spell. I already explained this, I'm not going to repeat myself, so for once pay attention to my arguments.

When did that automatically mean he resists it? Nothing about that implies a resistance, especially when other organization members die and get affected by the light from a keyblade. Give me an actual statement that the wielders of light resist light powers, cause the only thing you've proven for resistance here is the cloaks resisting the effects of the darkness. Nothing about resisting the light.

To add on the above, yes, this is a straw man, I'm talking regarding how Resistance Negation fits more with less assumptions, yet Glassman makes up a claim as if I was talking about canonicity.

The rest of Glassman's arguments are just ad nauseam at this point, I already went on how Resistance Negation standards don't even go like that to begin with, and it was already proved with its mechanics how each "layer" has to be of the Res Neg kind without making further assumptions otherwise, especially when all the arguments against so are based on the fact they use numbers when that's outweighted by the other semantics at play as said before.

As for the light stuff, the Days Ultimania makes that clear:

(Page 172)

The probability of the occurrence of an abnormal condition when attacked is as shown in the table on the right.
Resistances can be increased with the ring panel and also when the character levels up.
When a character levels up, the attribute (→P.22~122) of the character will increase as shown in the table below right.

(Page 122)

Sora
Available by buying "Sora's Awakening" at the store after the ending (which comes in when all normal missions are completed with the mission gauge full).
Weapons Used - Keyblade
Attributes - Light (disables navigation map)
A boy with a strong sense of justice who wields the Keyblade. After working with Donald and Goofy to save the world from darkness, he went into a long sleep with them in Castle Oblivion. The adventures of Sora are often replayed in the minds of both Roxas and Xion.

Yeah, it's stated clearly here that Sora's attribute is light, which Zexion copied, and so he'd innately resist it himself in the process.

It acting rather weirdly doesn't change the fact that it's how the card system works, a higher number card stops a lower number one from working and proceeds to work, while none of the lower number cards except for 0 can do anything to the higher ones. The fact that the same number cards cancel each other out due to being the same value as opposed to it being overpowered heavily implies a potency here as two equal forces would just cancel out. If it wasn't a potency thing then the cards would just work regardless of the numbers, but the fact the numbers have an affect on the game implies there's a hierarchy in terms of the cards.

As for this, I think you're starting to move the goalposts at this point, Elizhaa's Instant Death example relies on how stuff of the same rank just relies on several non-mentioned factors and is overall variable, while in here it's a solid "either it does anything or nothing", which makes the argument overall even weaker.

Hierarchies can also exist in resistance negation layers and you know it (in fact that's why there's the entire concept of res neg layers on the site), that implication is far outweighted by the other semantics at hand at this point, and really seems like you want to lowball things for the sake of it even if at this point it makes less sense than the alternative with less assumptions.

 

[Theglassman12]

So again, you didn't read the resistance negation page, it literally anything that has to do with a higher potency would not count, If they work like resistance negation, then explain why the hell the equal number cards cancel each other out and not just negate the targets equally? If it was resistance negation then the abilities would work regardless, but that's not how it works.

Where in that translation remotely implies a resistance to light beyond a game mechanics thing about leveling up? Days and Chain of Memories are two separate games, so at this point it just looks like you're grasping at straws here.

Except that resistance negation wouldn't just cancel out from 2 cards of equal clashing at each other, if anything they would equally work on their targets instead of being nullified, which implies a potency. As of now I do not see 20-30+ layers of resistance negation, I just see layered hax at best with one resistance negation.

 

[Elizhaa]

In regards to the mentioning of Instant Death's ranking system. I don't really see how that's accurate to the card system. The value system in Chain of Memories isn't based on solely the ability to attack things but it also governs how your interact on the battlefield, how you preform actions and so on. It's quite literally an all-encompassing system that governs everything, not just combat.

Also, by definition it's not potency anyways because things like using items and the act of summoning have no inherent potency to them to begin with. These are things are just absolute things that either you can do or don't. You can potentially summon or use an item more effectively than someone but you can have more potency in your ability to use an item or summon because that's just not how something absolute works.

Wouldn't it be antifeat/game mechanic then because your description make it sounds like the numbers don't matter for summon/items, assuming you mean the summon/items have number since I am not that familiar?

It's basically like saying you can have more potency in how you breath air. It doesn't make sense because you can't breath air more potentially than another person who breaths air, you can either breath air more effectively, differently or not at all....The bottom line is potency here isn't inherent to these concepts.

The evaluation system is more so based on being less highball and choosing the point that have less assumptions, given the evidences.

What is more likely, from my viewpoints?

• 27 resistance negation layers that have caveats where the higher number trumps higher and the opposite is true for the latter which is similar to potency in a lot of fiction; there is also a case where zero cards might have resistance negation.
• this case is just potency and resistance negation for varying case like for 0 cards.

The version would be the second case for our standards; this text also weakens the argument in the resistance negation page in the first case:

• However, simply overwhelming something with Hax stronger than what they can resist normally wouldn't qualify.

 

[Bobsican]

So again, you didn't read the resistance negation page, it literally anything that has to do with a higher potency would not count, If they work like resistance negation, then explain why the hell the equal number cards cancel each other out and not just negate the targets equally? If it was resistance negation then the abilities would work regardless, but that's not how it works.

Ad Nauseam... Moving on because this is now a non-argument and doesn't address what's already been said here. Your repeating yourself as opposed to giving a genuine argument is only being a detrimental waste of time as I've explained this concept to you a countless amount of times, yet you still haven't provided anything that refutes my claim and/or provides a different perspective.

How does this debunk resistance negation Glass? The most basic definition is that it bypasses resistances. Either prove it doesn't or get a standard that means it has to work on every single thing. Otherwise you have no argument and are effectively stonewalling with nonsense.

Where in that translation remotely implies a resistance to light beyond a game mechanics thing about leveling up? Days and Chain of Memories are two separate games, so at this point it just looks like you're grasping at straws here.

Clearly you didn't read the argument here, this has nothing to do with the resistances to light as opposed to proving that Zexion replicated Sora's attributes, which is light.
This is important because this applies to the Riku argument and that further supports the resistance negation points brought up before of light users being resistant to light. There's other things that point to this being the case and if you are still confused/unsure then you're welcome to ask.

Except that resistance negation wouldn't just cancel out from 2 cards of equal clashing at each other, if anything they would equally work on their targets instead of being nullified, which implies a potency. As of now I do not see 20-30+ layers of resistance negation, I just see layered hax at best with one resistance negation.

No? Resistance Negation doesn't work like that nor really has. Whenever two clashing cards clash against one another, it merely makes the action fall through as opposed to break it in that sense. Although this argument doesn't even matter because a card having resistance negation effects to it is already accepted, so even humoring this argument is irrelevant because you'd have to prove cards don't inherently just have resistance negation and thus nullifying the points brought up before

Wouldn't it be antifeat/game mechanic then because your description make it sounds like the numbers don't matter for summon/items, assuming you mean the summon/items have number since I am not that familiar?

How does that argument make the number values seem like it "doesn't matter"?. What the argument is going against is the logic that it's similar to ID's ranking system, as the Card System is more-so governing over everything from how you interact with the battlefield, attack and all other types of stuff. There isn't much to compare the two beyond the fact they use values. However, as argued before, number values don't denote potency and that's ultimately what was being argued here, which was in response to both you and Glassman's argument of potency being the case for what the number values denote (which isn't proven and has more contradictions than anything).

 

[Antvasima]

Have our staff members here reached an agreement or not?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Antvasima the higher cards are just layered hax at best, card 0 is resistance negation, that's about it for agreement.

@Bobsican And you haven't bothered reading the page for Resistance negation where a stronger ability working on someone with weaker resistance wouldn't count as resistance negation, which btw you haven't done a good job explaining how the card clashes doesn't debunk your resistance negation at all. If it was actual res negging, then the abilities would still work, not cancel out. That's not how bypassing someone's resistance works.

And you haven't bothered explaining where the text says you resist light for having light. Neither translations even imply the users of light resist it, just that they have light.

Power nullification is not resistance negation, and we're still discussing the legitimacy of resistance negation here so it's far from accepted to 20-30+ layered res negging. Also that's not how this works, you need to prove it doesn't work like a hierarchy of layers and instead works like bypassing resistance, which you've failed to do so.

 

[Antvasima]

@Antvasima the higher cards are just layered hax at best, card 0 is resistance negation, that's about it for agreement.

Okay. If the other staff members here agree with you, that evaluation result can probanly be applied then.

 

[Bobsican]

Given the constant back and forth, it has been deemed best by me and others off-site to just keep the resistance negation layers discussion for a future thread with more elaborared/organized explanations and stuff, especially with how this thread is concluded as is beyond that.

In any case I'll go ahead and apply what has been accepted.

 

[RH0904]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

Given the constant back and forth, it has been deemed best by me and others off-site to just keep the resistance negation layers discussion for a future thread with more elaborared/organized explanations and stuff, especially with how this thread is concluded as is beyond that.

In any case I'll go ahead and apply what has been accepted.

Okay. Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this thread?

 

[Bobsican]

Applying the stuff of course, I'll reply again once it has been applied.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.