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Kid Goku vs. Ruby Rose
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
- Status
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His speed tier would be based off of his speedforce or whatever and thus subject to speed equalization. He would move at the same speed as a real life high school girl if he was put against one with speed equalized.LTB2000 said:
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Ok? Good for him. Has nothing to do with the point.LTB2000 said:
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Uh, guys? You're kinda derailing the thread. This is Ruby vs Goku, not a discussion on the effects of equalizing speed for certain characters.
Also, this whole discussion on speed is pointless to begin with, since both characters have ways of increasing their base speed.
Also, this whole discussion on speed is pointless to begin with, since both characters have ways of increasing their base speed.
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The argument is that they shouldn't be able to increase their speed after the fight starts since that would abuse the 'speed equalized' system and defeat the purpose.
Otherwise you get a situation like for example, if we have saiyan saga goku vs someone who has way faster base speed than goku and then speed is equalized they will fight with even speed - but then goku could use kaoken and multply his speed and end up way faster than the other character, and so even though the other character was way above goku in speed to begin with he get's blitzed purely by abusing the 'speed equalized' rule. Clearly that's absurd, so you shouldn't be able to increase your speed after a fight starts when you are in an equalized speed battle. Allowing such a thing blatantly favors characters who have lower base speed and increase their speed using abilities or transformations.
This is relevant here because speed is equalized in this fight and both fighters would have ways to boost their speed if we didn't stop them from doing so due to the speed rule.
Otherwise you get a situation like for example, if we have saiyan saga goku vs someone who has way faster base speed than goku and then speed is equalized they will fight with even speed - but then goku could use kaoken and multply his speed and end up way faster than the other character, and so even though the other character was way above goku in speed to begin with he get's blitzed purely by abusing the 'speed equalized' rule. Clearly that's absurd, so you shouldn't be able to increase your speed after a fight starts when you are in an equalized speed battle. Allowing such a thing blatantly favors characters who have lower base speed and increase their speed using abilities or transformations.
This is relevant here because speed is equalized in this fight and both fighters would have ways to boost their speed if we didn't stop them from doing so due to the speed rule.
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That's the whole point of the transformations, they increase your stats by a great amount, including speed, if they don't then why the hell do they even have that technique in the first place. And, with your argument on the whole speed is equalized, a person with time stopping abilities should apparently not even be in a speed equalized fight since they can apparently blitz the person by stopping time.
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They have that technique to put them in a tier in the first place and thats being generous considering that the source material is always written for the sake of making an interesting story, not for the sake of making a profile on some wiki fit neatly into its definitions.
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This is getting out of hand. I believe this is a Versus thread, not a why Speed equalized is a good or bad thing thread.
LBT2000, the examples you used don't have anything to do with Speed.
Instant Transmission is Teleportation, not Speed.
Time stopping is Time Manipulation, not Speed.
Speed equalized just makes the combatants react and fight each other to an even level. This was discussed previously already in another thread.
Flash is different because he can increase his Regular Speed to greater heights via Speed Force, and it doesn't just make him faster, he can make his opponent competely immobile due to stealing their kinetic energy. Speed equalized or not, unless you have hax that can counter that, you're pretty much done. Also speed equalized isn't that bad, characters still have their AP, Durability, Equipment, Intelligence still normal. It's not like Ruby is completely helpless, Goku can just keep up with her attacks, that's it.
What you are talking about with those examples LBT2000 is Hax, not Speed. Which is something completely different.
LBT2000, the examples you used don't have anything to do with Speed.
Instant Transmission is Teleportation, not Speed.
Time stopping is Time Manipulation, not Speed.
Speed equalized just makes the combatants react and fight each other to an even level. This was discussed previously already in another thread.
Flash is different because he can increase his Regular Speed to greater heights via Speed Force, and it doesn't just make him faster, he can make his opponent competely immobile due to stealing their kinetic energy. Speed equalized or not, unless you have hax that can counter that, you're pretty much done. Also speed equalized isn't that bad, characters still have their AP, Durability, Equipment, Intelligence still normal. It's not like Ruby is completely helpless, Goku can just keep up with her attacks, that's it.
What you are talking about with those examples LBT2000 is Hax, not Speed. Which is something completely different.
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I believe Speed equalised means Speed equalised even if there is a technique that boosts speed. Otherwise there is no point in there being a speed equalised matchup at all.
Speed equalised gives opportunities for interesting matches that couldn't exist otherwise due to speed mismatches and gives better thread variety.
So as to not derail this thread any further i'd appreciate it if all parties drop it.
Speed equalised gives opportunities for interesting matches that couldn't exist otherwise due to speed mismatches and gives better thread variety.
So as to not derail this thread any further i'd appreciate it if all parties drop it.
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Given that I am uninterested in versus matchups in general, I am not exactly the right person to ask about speed equalisation.
However, I do recognise that the options for matchups without speed equalisation are quite limited, or get extremely predictable outcomes. As such, although not actively encouraged, they are still allowed.
In any case, this is probably not the right place to have this discussion.
However, I do recognise that the options for matchups without speed equalisation are quite limited, or get extremely predictable outcomes. As such, although not actively encouraged, they are still allowed.
In any case, this is probably not the right place to have this discussion.
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Alright, fair enough.
Bringing this full circle, ruby has the range advantage and goku can't close in on her, even if he does he would have taken significant damage by that time and would lose the close range fight.
This is my vote.
Bringing this full circle, ruby has the range advantage and goku can't close in on her, even if he does he would have taken significant damage by that time and would lose the close range fight.
This is my vote.
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^^ ThisA Sword Dancer said:
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Goku could use the power pole to launch himself at her.
Flying nimbus anyone?
Also shouldn't a single punch from Goku KO ruby? So reasons above + this equals win.
And don't say nimbus isn't allowed. It's part of his Arsenal.
Flying nimbus anyone?
Also shouldn't a single punch from Goku KO ruby? So reasons above + this equals win.
And don't say nimbus isn't allowed. It's part of his Arsenal.
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And he'll lose manueverability and ruby could still just dodge.A Hero Long Forgotten said:
He's never used it in combat.
Hell. No. Ruby has tanked attacks from people more powerful than Goku, so no dice. And we've given reasons why that won't work.
Yes, but he never uses it.
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Yeah he used it against Jackie chun to return to the arena.
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Actually its only 6, Sparky didnt give a reason
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more like 3 each. Most of them are following flwaed reasoning by saying Goku is more skilled without giving any explanation whatsoever.
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Also, aren't you supposed to wait a little for a grace period?
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Yes its like a day or something iirc to give people time to see the thread and chime in.
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So its 6 for Goku, 4 for Ruby
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Also when you do go to submit, you better make sure to mention in the submission and then on the profiles that ruby was severely restricted here, with her speed advantage taken away and her eyes as well.
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A Sword Dancer said:
There aren't even enough votes for this to be submitted yet
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Either way it turns out, there needs to be a note that goku won with ruby very restricted, or goku lost while ruby was very restricted.
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And they give no reasoning for that or this. While I agree adult Goku has better skills than Bomberman, people always say Goku is more skilled than INSERT CHARACTER HERE and do not give reasoning. None of Goku's fights have ended with a clever or intricate move or tactic used against a more powerful opponent to win, such asLTB2000 said:
-Obi Wan doing the high ground against Anakin and Anakin's arrogance.
-Optimus Prime using Devastator's size and lower agility against him.
-Batman cutting off Bane's venom to severely weaken him.
-Superman using various techniques, tactics and moves against Doomsday
-Bomberman trapping someone between a wall and a bomb huehehehehe
Goku's never done anything of the sort, and all of his fights have ended with him bashing his opponent into submission.
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^ It's one of my issues with the DB series as a whole, not long after the start of DBZ all fights seem to rapidly slip further and further away from martial arts and strategy and things become almost entirely about who has the most raw power, speed, and durability.
Hell, Ippo is a boxing series with a main character who focuses almost entirely on power and tanking hits compared to everyone else, and yet the level of skill and combat tactics thats displayed in that series is so much higher than in the DB series that it makes it sound like a joke to assume 'x DB character is more skilled'.
With stats equalized and only hand to hand allowed, I'd put my money on any Ippo or Kenichi character over any character from the DB series in a one on one fight of pure skill.
Hell, Ippo is a boxing series with a main character who focuses almost entirely on power and tanking hits compared to everyone else, and yet the level of skill and combat tactics thats displayed in that series is so much higher than in the DB series that it makes it sound like a joke to assume 'x DB character is more skilled'.
With stats equalized and only hand to hand allowed, I'd put my money on any Ippo or Kenichi character over any character from the DB series in a one on one fight of pure skill.
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And they give no reasoning for that or this. While I agree adult Goku has better skills than Bomberman, people always say Goku is more skilled than INSERT CHARACTER HERE and do not give reasoning. None of Goku's fights have ended with a clever or intricate move or tactic used against a more powerful opponent to win, such as
-Obi Wan doing the high ground against Anakin and Anakin's arrogance.
-Optimus Prime using Devastator's size and lower agility against him.
-Batman cutting off Bane's venom to severely weaken him.
-Superman using various techniques, tactics and moves against Doomsday
-Bomberman trapping someone between a wall and a bomb huehehehehe
Goku's never done anything of the sort, and all of his fights have ended with him bashing his opponent into submission.
Goku was able to get the slip on frieza since he didn't have the ability to sense energy. He also worn down frieza's golden form when he was fighting him. He even tricked cell to thinking he was gonna fire a regular kamehameha wave, but teleported right in front of him. He even tricked piccolo into blasting himself. He also adapted to the solar flare that tien used by using master roshi's glasses. That should count as a skill.
-Obi Wan doing the high ground against Anakin and Anakin's arrogance.
-Optimus Prime using Devastator's size and lower agility against him.
-Batman cutting off Bane's venom to severely weaken him.
-Superman using various techniques, tactics and moves against Doomsday
-Bomberman trapping someone between a wall and a bomb huehehehehe
Goku's never done anything of the sort, and all of his fights have ended with him bashing his opponent into submission.
Goku was able to get the slip on frieza since he didn't have the ability to sense energy. He also worn down frieza's golden form when he was fighting him. He even tricked cell to thinking he was gonna fire a regular kamehameha wave, but teleported right in front of him. He even tricked piccolo into blasting himself. He also adapted to the solar flare that tien used by using master roshi's glasses. That should count as a skill.
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He likely just figured that out because Frieza kept missing him. He knew Frieza can't control his power so he waited for him to burn out. He only figured it out toward the end of it and tried fighting Frieza head-on for the entirety. That was a win he achieved through greater stats, I.E. Stamina.LTB2000 said:
Those other 2 moments don't really count, if anything they count AGAINST him since he still lost.
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Exactly. Honestly it's probably because the fights look cool that people asusme that. Honestly Kid Goku, while having 1 or 2 clever moments, never defeated anybody with these clever moves (Tien Shinhan both), and Ruby herself has various times where she has pulled very intelligent and creative attacks to win, such as
-Pulling the umbrella on Neopolitan
-Working in tandem with Weiss' magic things to defeat the giant grimm through momentum and her scythe
-Abusing range in various fights.
Unlike with Goku, these actually let her win her battles.
-Pulling the umbrella on Neopolitan
-Working in tandem with Weiss' magic things to defeat the giant grimm through momentum and her scythe
-Abusing range in various fights.
Unlike with Goku, these actually let her win her battles.
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I am going with Ruby Rose for the reasons listed above.
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He lost to Tien due to a tournement rule, and during that battle he pulled alot of tactics, ranging from using his enviroment (Like grabbing Roshi`s glasses) and other factors to win.
He didn`t find that out thanks to Frieza missing, as it was justGoku blocking/redirecting the blasts.
As for Frieza`s, the moment that Frieza`s stamina began to wear out, Goku left the battlefield, so yeah, no he didn`t wait him out.
People also seem to forget that Goku`s attacks are generally focused in the chest area, which can easily break Ruby`s stamina and cause internal bleeding like in the case of his fight with Frieza.
Also, he beat Piccolo btw, even with a hole in his arm/chest.
He didn`t find that out thanks to Frieza missing, as it was justGoku blocking/redirecting the blasts.
As for Frieza`s, the moment that Frieza`s stamina began to wear out, Goku left the battlefield, so yeah, no he didn`t wait him out.
People also seem to forget that Goku`s attacks are generally focused in the chest area, which can easily break Ruby`s stamina and cause internal bleeding like in the case of his fight with Frieza.
Also, he beat Piccolo btw, even with a hole in his arm/chest.
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Yeah, my vote goes to Ruby due to the range advantage and her dust should give her a pretty noticeable edge against goku. Remember, bullets in RWBY are not regular bullets. Ruby doesn't even have to hit Goku with the ice dust, just near him.
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With the chest focused hits, isn't that most fighters? Along with head shots?
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Well that's 6 for Goku (7? Data is that a vote for Goku?) and 6 for Ruby.
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You can argue that goku uses some stategy occasionally, but what I was mostly referring to is the actually martial arts. Goku just hits things hard and fast and sometimes blocks, but you never see him in a hand to hand fight with frieze or buu or anybody really after a not very long into the series where he gained any sort of upperhand through superior technique via parrying, exploiting openings, using feints, using situational counters, etc.
He just hits hard and faster and has more stamina when it comes to hand to hand. This assumption that he's some martial arts master thats beyond any other is silly when he seems to at most have basic karate training or something and the rest of his fighting style is just to throw his stats around.
He just hits hard and faster and has more stamina when it comes to hand to hand. This assumption that he's some martial arts master thats beyond any other is silly when he seems to at most have basic karate training or something and the rest of his fighting style is just to throw his stats around.
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Cal Howard generally yes, but while most aims for headshots, Goku tends to target the stomach and lung areas. One of his attacks, the One Inch Punch was made for this kind of fighting style.
Sword Dancer I`ve seen some crazy statements in my day, but did you really just say he seems to have at best basic karate. Really?
Weekly yeah, well kind of. He does have his standard 22nd Budokai equipment right?
Sword Dancer I`ve seen some crazy statements in my day, but did you really just say he seems to have at best basic karate. Really?
Weekly yeah, well kind of. He does have his standard 22nd Budokai equipment right?
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Yeah that's what I'm saying. In universe statements and 'martial arts skill scaling' (is that a thing?) may say one thing, but we haven't seen skillfull displays from goku in hand to hand to much as we've seen him hit dudes harder than they can take, faster than they can react, after tanking lots of damage with the occasional dramatic block to show how easy it was to grab someones incoming fist/leg.
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