Kid Ayanokoji vs Kid Mikey (Grace)

[GoldenBooster445]

@Tohru.idk Can you specify these battle conditions:

• Location: ???
• Prep time and knowledge on the other character.
• Is the fight a: Both are in character but willing to kill, the scenario @Dinozxd described, A fight to KO or a street fighter style brawl to the death.

Alright
Location: Mikey's grandfather's dojo
Random encounter and no prep or prior knowledge.
KO Fight.
Mikey starts of in his base form but DI is unrestricted for him.

 

[Dinozxd]

Alright
Location: Mikey's grandfather's dojo
Random encounter and no prep or knowledge.
KO Fight.
Mikey starts of in his base form but DI is unrestricted for him.

Alright. I'm voting for Kid Mikey here.

 

[Zefra3011]

I'm realizing martial arts are extremely important in this fight, probably going with Ayano.
Mikey can go DI which would give him the win due to the speed boost, I guees Ayano would just KO him before he can go DI, the point is who lands the hit first since either Mikey one shot Ayano or Ayano KO Mikey, Mikey kicks are very large movements which usually won't work when the opponent can just punch you with an extremely short movement, Mikey usually can use those large kicks due to the speed gap he usually has, so in a speed equalized fights the one with shorter attacks has an advantage.
Also we see that even Takemichi could land an hit on Mikey while being extremely slower by finding the moment when Mikey, after a kick, can't dodge, so I don't see why Ayano can't just hit Mikey before the kick lands or just dodge it and counter attack like Takemichi did, he would just put Mikey KO before the DI and win.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

If this match is akin to who can one shot the other first. Then I’m going for Mikey based off all the arguments for Ayan and my knowledge on TR.

Mikey's signature kicks are not only stronger but also significantly faster compared to his regular combat attacks. This might seem counterintuitive considering the larger range of motion these kicks require. However, due to the substantial momentum they generate, their speed ends up surpassing even the swiftness of attacks that cover shorter distances. As a result, these signature kicks maintain their faster speed advantage even when executed over a greater distance.

I am also a bit skeptical about how Ayan can gauge strength off someone who is probably shorter than him or at least the same size and physique, but I will ignore that. Mikey's size, mobility, and acrobatics should enable Mikey to avoid attacks aimed at weak points.

Mikey should land his kick no problem.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Alright
Location: Mikey's grandfather's dojo
Random encounter and no prep or prior knowledge.
KO Fight.
Mikey starts of in his base form but DI is unrestricted for him.

My vote remains Ayanokoji.
If Mikey doesn't start with DI he'll get pressure point KOed before he can do anything.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

My vote remains Ayanokoji.
If Mikey doesn't start with DI he'll get pressure point KOed before he can do anything.

That implies Mikey would let that happen. Does Ayan have a speed amp?

Mikey on the other hand has a higher attack speed than his combat speed with his signature kicks.

 

[Dinozxd]

Mikey on the other hand has a higher attack speed than his combat speed with his signature kicks.

Wait, Attack Speed doesn't get affected by speed equalization?

 

[DeltaStriker22]

That implies Mikey would let that happen. Does Ayan have a speed amp?

Mikey on the other hand has a higher attack speed than his combat speed with his signature kicks.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, don't Mikey's kicks get faster overtime during the fight, that's what I got so far.
If that's the case then it'd take a while before his kicks become so fast enough that Ayanokoji's brain can't even register them. Ayanokoji's an extraordinary genius(he outsmarted a supercomputer) combine that with his analytical prediction & info analysis the fight would go something like this:

Mikey would take his fighting stance, and koji would learn his fighting style making him easier to predict. From there, after seeing his kicks getting faster with each attack(it'll take 2-3 kicks tops for koji to realise this) he'll deem mikey a threat and quickly take him down with pressure points.

And no, mikey would not land a hit on him even with speed amplification because Ayanokoji would have predicted what he was gonna do before he even knew what he was gonna do and have counters measures in place. It'll take a lot of kicks to get fast enough to overwhelm koji meanwhile koji will likely one shot him before he can even think of DI.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Wait, Attack Speed doesn't get affected by speed equalization?

Isn't that for projectile skills and weapons like guns? Like for example: two characters are fighing one is supersonic and the other is subsonic, the supersonic one gets lowered to subsonic but if the supersonic one had a weapon that launches projectiles at hypersonic speeds, the speed of the projectile won't get nerfed.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Wait, Attack Speed doesn't get affected by speed equalization?

No. Only Combat Speed. If there are certain elements that are faster than Mikey’s usual combat speed then it increases by the same percentile of increase to his equalized combat speed. Mikey’s signature kicks are faster than his regular kicks and punches that are equalized to Ayan’s regular kicking and punching speed, then his signature kicks will be faster when equalized to Ayan.

For example, If Mikey can shoot lasers from his fingers, that doesn’t mean that his punch and kicks are as fast as the laser.

 

[Dinozxd]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, don't Mikey's kicks get faster overtime during the fight, that's what I got so far.

We are not talking about Mikey's AD. We are talking about his signutare kicks being much faster than his normal kicks. Combat Speed includes dodges and punches as well as kicks. Mikey isn't shown to dodge hits or punch as fast as he kicks people with his signature kicks so Mikey's signature kicks count as Attack Speed like @Arnoldstone18 said.

Kid Mikey just blitzes in that case lol.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

We are not talking about Mikey's AD. We are talking about his signutare kicks being much faster than his normal kicks. Combat Speed includes dodges and punches as well as kicks. Mikey isn't shown to dodge hits or punch as fast as he kicks people with his signature kicks so Mikey's signature kicks count as Attack Speed like @Arnoldstone18 said.

Kid Mikey just blitzes in that case lol.

His signature kick at the end of the day is still just a roundhouse kick that just happens to be much faster and stronger than his other attacks. Ayanokoji can predict him using it just like any other attack and get out of the way a moment before the kick is launched and move in when Mikey is in a vulnerable position.

 

[Dinozxd]

His signature kick at the end of the day is still just a roundhouse kick that just happens to be much faster and stronger than his other attacks. Ayanokoji can predict him using it just like any other attack and get out of the way a moment before the kick is launched and move in when Mikey is in a vulnerable position.

Mikey mostly blitzes his opponents right off the bat when they least expect and I doubt Ayanokouji can predict suprise attacks (He couldn''t predict Manabu's surprise attack) He can predict the martial arts he uses through analysing his stance but there is no way he literally predicts the exact moment Mikey's gonna kick and move out the way before that happens.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

How good is Ayan’s predictions? Is it Takemichy’s level? It seems like it’s Izana’s level at best yet it was too fast for Izana to dodge so Izana had to block instead. It doesn’t seem like Ayan is strong enough to block. It took Takemichy everything he had to dodge Mikey too even with his level of precog that enables him to literally see the future. So I don’t see Ayan dodging Mikey’s signature kicks.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Mikey mostly blitzes his opponents right off the bat when they least expect and I doubt Ayanokouji can predict suprise attacks (He couldn''t predict Manabu's surprise attack)

He did predict it, that's why he was able to evade it.

He can predict the martial arts he uses through analysing his stance but there is no way he literally predicts the exact moment Mikey's gonna kick and move out the way before that happens.

Reading body language to look for slight muscle movements to be able to pridict movements is something even professional fighters in the real world are able to do. Why wouldn't Ayanokoji who has not only trained in the same martial arts his entire life but can predit the opponent's entire fighting style by just their stance not be able to do the same?

 

[DeltaStriker22]

How good is Ayan’s predictions? Is it Takemichy’s level? It seems like it’s Izana’s level at best yet it was too fast for Izana to dodge so Izana had to block instead. It doesn’t seem like Ayan is strong enough to block. It took Takemichy everything he had to dodge Mikey too even with his level of precog that enables him to literally see the future. So I don’t see Ayan dodging Mikey’s signature kicks.

Takemichi has straight up precognition not analytical prediction so he's definitely better than Ayanokoji. But I can say no other character in TR has prediction on the same level as Ayanokoji.

His main feat for this would be outsmarting a computer where during a chess match, Ayanokoji not only percieved more possible moves than the computer but picked a better move than the computer recomended. He can do the same level of calculating possible outocme and picking solution in a fight.

 

[GoldenBooster445]

Uh, why does Mikey have the speed edge here without amps? Combat and reaction speeds are equalized and I doubt Ayano would let him go full on DI, he'll just use his info analysis to cognize the danger he's in, lift and restrain Mikey to the ground with his higher lifting strength and KO him via pressure points using his steel batton which offers a higher range. Mikey has also never faced anyone as skilled as Ayano at that point but Ayano has faced people like Mikey who canone shot him and even people who are highly skilled martial artists.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Takemichi has straight up precognition not analytical prediction so he's definitely better than Ayanokoji. But I can say no other character in TR has prediction on the same level as Ayanokoji.

His main feat for this would be outsmarting a computer where during a chess match, Ayanokoji not only percieved more possible moves than the computer but picked a better move than the computer recomended. He can do the same level of calculating possible outocme and picking solution in a fight.

Impressive. However.

Izana saw through all of Mikey’s moves and even had a faster combat speed and reactions than Mikey thanks to his “unparalleled senses” yet he was not fast enough to dodge Mikey’s kicks which led to his downfall because the powerful kicks wore down his limbs making Izana’s combat speed slower over time. So while Ayan has better analytical prediction than Izana’s sense. Izana was still faster than Mikey. Both of them still know all of Mikey’s moves before he makes them but Ayan won’t know how fast the kick is, Izana knows but despite that… both Izana and Ayanokoji won’t dodge Mikey’s kick, at the absolute best Ayan can only block them which won’t work considering the AP difference. So unless Koji has precognition, which took Takemichy everything he could to dodge despite seeing the future and moving before Mikey even pulls his legs back to start kicking. Mikey just tags Ayanokoji first.

Uh, why does Mikey have the speed edge here without amps? Combat and reaction speeds are equalized and I doubt Ayano would let him go full on DI, he'll just use his info analysis to cognize the danger he's in, lift and restrain Mikey to the ground with his higher lifting strength and KO him via pressure points using his steel batton which offers a higher range. Mikey has also never faced anyone as skilled as Ayano at that point but Ayano has faced people like Mikey who canone shot him and even people who are highly skilled martial artists.

Only Combat Speeds are equalized. Reaction, Attack, Flight and Movement speed aren’t equalized but it’s often assumed to be the same as combat speed unless shown otherwise. That’s why they seem like reaction speed is equalized but in truth they’re just equal to the equalized combat speed. Mikey’s Signature Kicks are faster than his Combat Speed and Reaction Speed. They are so fast that not even Izana, who knows all of Mikey’s moves before he makes them, could not dodge them even though he could hit Mikey faster than he can react at all. Izana could only bring up his guard to block those kicks and over time that led to his downfall because Mikey weakened his limbs. In this match, Mikey just tags Ayan.

Regardless of skill, Mikey also isn’t going to stand there and let himself be grabbed or attacked by the baton. Mikey’s stature, agility, maneuverability and sense of balance would make it harder if his pressure points to be hit. So even if Ayanokoji will perform his wincons soon with his own skills and abilities, Mikey will perform his wincon sooner with his signature kick.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

How does AP vs LS work?
Let's say a character has 100joules AP and his opponent has 100kg LS can the LS guy block the attack despite higher AP?

 

[GoldenBooster445]

Mikey’s Signature Kicks are faster than his Combat Speed and Reaction Speed.

Mikey's signature kick is attack speed and have we seen him perform this as a 10yo? But even despite this, Ayanokoji would still be able to block attacks from Mikey, he was blitzing 6 men at FTE speeds whereas Mikey is only listed as superhuman, besides, he easily scales to ANHS self. So if anything, Ayanokoji has the speed edge here.

Also all combat related speeds are equalized here. So I doubt this matters. I don't think I understand why Mikey's signature kick is attack speed and not combat speed, he isn't using a weapon to attack anyone?

 

[GoldenBooster445]

Let's say a character has 100joules AP and his opponent has 100kg LS can the LS guy block the attack despite higher AP?

I mean, the lower AP guy's persons arm would break since they can't withstand the other person's energy. What they can do however is use their higher LS to grab the opponent's limb and redirect the attack. LS involves movement of mass whereas AP is just an exertion of energy.

 

[Dinozxd]

Mikey's signature kick is attack speed and have we seen him perform this as a 10yo?

Yes (1.55)

But even despite this, Ayanokoji would still be able to block attacks from Mikey,

He would probably break his arm if he does that.

he was blitzing 6 men at FTE speeds

Wr Koji's speed is still listed as "Unknown" though.

Mikey's signature kick is attack speed and not combat speed, he isn't using a weapon to attack anyone?

Combat Speed includes dodges and punches as well as kicks. Mikey isn't shown to dodge hits or punch as fast as he kicks people with his signature kicks so Mikey's signature kicks count as Attack Speed

 

[Naito-desu]

Mikey has a 10x AP advantage based on OP, that's well past the Versus standard for a one-shot, how does Mikey lose this at all? Even one hit's going to hurt a fuckton. If this isn't a stomp for Mikey, you're tripping if you're not voting for him. Voting Mikey FRA

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Mikey has a 10x AP advantage based on OP, that's well past the Versus standard for a one-shot, how does Mikey lose this at all? Even one hit's going to hurt a fuckton. If this isn't a stomp for Mikey, you're tripping if you're not voting for him. Voting Mikey FRA

Info Analysis, Analytical Prediction, Pressure Point strikes that can one shot, better combat experience and intelligence.
Honestly, Ayanokoji takes this prety solidly despite the AP gap with just skill.

The only thing that he can't seem to get past is the signature kick. I can't think of anything he can do against it, if he can't do anything against the kick it's GG.
Changing my vote to Mikey for now.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

How does AP vs LS work?
Let's say a character has 100joules AP and his opponent has 100kg LS can the LS guy block the attack despite higher AP?

100Kg can brace himself, but that doesn't account for the impact of 100J. LS will suffer damage if his Dura 100J but wouldn't get sent flying.

Unless youre Garou using WSRSM to redirect force of a far stronger attacks. but even that has a limit.

Mikey's signature kick is attack speed and have we seen him perform this as a 10yo? But even despite this, Ayanokoji would still be able to block attacks from Mikey, he was blitzing 6 men at FTE speeds whereas Mikey is only listed as superhuman, besides, he easily scales to ANHS self. So if anything, Ayanokoji has the speed edge here.

Also all combat related speeds are equalized here. So I doubt this matters. I don't think I understand why Mikey's signature kick is attack speed and not combat speed, he isn't using a weapon to attack anyone?

Combat speed is just a collection of attack speeds and reaction speeds. If the character can react faster by dodging, then that should be separated from other reaction speeds involved in combat, like jumping, for instance. If the character runs slower than his combat speed, then that should be separated from combat speed and so on...

Mikey's renowned signature kick is special for its speed and power. Nobody in the verse has been able to dodge it without precognition, while other attacks can be dodged. So that has a special speed separate from combat speed. Right now, its an unquantifiable speed blitz gap above combat speed. Until I sort out a calculation for it and add it to the profiles.

The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

 

[GoldenBooster445]

Welp, I'll change my vote to Mikey FRA.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm voting Ayanokoji because as far as i remember, Mikey doesn't start with his roundhouse kick (Correct me if i am wrong please), the way i see is Ayanokoji will use his info analysis on mikey and be careful around him, and go for pressure points since Ayanokoji in the white room fought those fighters going for the pressure points immediately (Once again please correct me if i am wrong)

 

[Dinozxd]

Mikey doesn't start with his roundhouse kick (Correct me if i am wrong please)

Mikey starts every fight with his Roundhouse Kick actually.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Mikey starts every fight with his Roundhouse Kick actually.

Even as a kid? Really?

Well that's a problem then.

Then since Ayanokoji himself said that he thinks of every possibility and chooses the most probable with his extraordinary genius and with his Analytical precog, wouldn't he be able to do something? I mean he still has supernatural willpower so he may be able to tank Mikey's kick no?

 

[Dinozxd]

Even as a kid? Really?

Yes. We saw that when he was saving Baji from some delinquents.

I mean he still has supernatural willpower so he may be able to tank Mikey's kick no?

There are more than 10 times AP diference (one shotting range is 7.5x in the wiki) between them so no.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Damn, well im changing my vote to Mikey FRA then

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lol

 

[Dinozxd]

Lol

This thread started like it was gonna be close but now it's 6-1

 

[XxZetsuxX]

This thread started like it was gonna be close but now it's 6-1

I really thought Ayanokoji had a chance but that signature kick just ruined everything

Btw how do i do those emojis?

 

[GoldenBooster445]

6 - 1, almost grace.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Mikey legit oneshots due to his AP advantage. Even if we say that Ayanokouji would dodge each of Mikey's strikes (which he probably would since he hasn't been hit since his character debut), he's bound to run out of stamina. Pressure points is a different story, but I don't see Ayanokouji winning this unless he's completely determined to win this.

The only way Ayanokouji even stands a chance is if he is equalized with Koenji who can sense a person's power just through their body heat and then he tries to dodge each of Mikey's attack, because even a non-serious punch from Mikey would be enough to at least get him down for a while.

So, voting Mikey.

 

[GoldenBooster445]

Grace is reached

 

[RoggerReggor]

I really thought Ayanokoji had a chance but that signature kick just ruined everything

Signature kick or not, Ayanokouji will still have a chance. This fight should be very close. Against Ibuki, Ayanokouji could analytically predict and dodge all of her round kicks, which are very much similar to Mikey's signature kicks. In fact, Mikey is a much easier opponent than Ibuki as he has never shown an ability to repeatedly kick his opponents on the same level as Ibuki (unsure about the final arc till it's animated). Takemichi said this:

Mikey takes a while between his two kicks. A person like Ayanokouji, when determine to win, can pull off crazy stuff as a kid. Not to mention that Ayanokouji is not only aware about lethal attacks, but non-lethal attacks as well. He was able to avoid orange juice flying at him in the novel:

His white room training should make this a skill-stomp already. Not only is he trained for like more than 10 hours a day for 10 years everyday, but also he had level 10 training at the age of below 10, a level normal human should not even think of reaching in their lifetime.

Against Albert, he was able to adapt to the fact that his attacks weren't being effective due to Albert's crazy endurance, so Ayanokouji literally hit his solar plexus and took him down in a few hit. He mentioned taking down Shiba in a single hit and Tsukishiro in a matter of blows. Ayanokouji, with his immense knowledge and much higher battle IQ than Mikey, might even pull it off.

Also, I didn't that this is Kid Mikey and Kid Ayanokouji and Ayanokouji here would have higher stamina than Mikey, so, my own belief is that Ayanokouji would pull it off.

Yes, him being able to avoid all attacks is a narrative by Ryuuen, but so far, it hasn't been proven false. Even when being drained of stamina, Ayanokouji avoided all of Nanase's attacks, and after that, all of Tsukishiro and Shiba's attacks. Even if Mikey's dark impulse awakens and he is determined to kill Ayanokouji, we can easily say that Ayanokouji's motivation to kill Mikey should be much higher (as he should be ordered to kill Mikey, and this Ayanokouji has orders above everything). Ayanokouji has crazy adaptability which allows him to absorb enemy techniques and modify them to a better extent, so, if we see this, Ayanokouji should be able to do a roundhouse kick better than Mikey if he sees him perform one.

AP: Mikey
Speed: Equalized
Battle Intelligence: Ayanokouji
Martial Arts & Skills: Ayanokouji

I believe Ayanokouji would hit Mikey in his vital organs and win this fight very easily. Switching my vote to Ayanokouji until someone convinces me that this wouldn't happen.

 

[Zefra3011]

I'm realizing martial arts are extremely important in this fight, probably going with Ayano.
Mikey can go DI which would give him the win due to the speed boost, I guees Ayano would just KO him before he can go DI, the point is who lands the hit first since either Mikey one shot Ayano or Ayano KO Mikey, Mikey kicks are very large movements which usually won't work when the opponent can just punch you with an extremely short movement, Mikey usually can use those large kicks due to the speed gap he usually has, so in a speed equalized fights the one with shorter attacks has an advantage.
Also we see that even Takemichi could land an hit on Mikey while being extremely slower by finding the moment when Mikey, after a kick, can't dodge, so I don't see why Ayano can't just hit Mikey before the kick lands or just dodge it and counter attack like Takemichi did, he would just put Mikey KO before the DI and win.

I also vote for Ayano (I guess I should have said it before)

 

[Dinozxd]

Signature kick or not, Ayanokouji will still have a chance. This fight should be very close. Against Ibuki, Ayanokouji could analytically predict and dodge all of her round kicks, which are very much similar to Mikey's signature kicks. In fact, Mikey is a much easier opponent than Ibuki as he has never shown an ability to repeatedly kick his opponents on the same level as Ibuki (unsure about the final arc till it's animated). Takemichi said this:

Mikey takes a while between his two kicks. A person like Ayanokouji, when determine to win, can pull off crazy stuff as a kid. Not to mention that Ayanokouji is not only aware about lethal attacks, but non-lethal attacks as well. He was able to avoid orange juice flying at him in the novel:

His white room training should make this a skill-stomp already. Not only is he trained for like more than 10 hours a day for 10 years everyday, but also he had level 10 training at the age of below 10, a level normal human should not even think of reaching in their lifetime.

Against Albert, he was able to adapt to the fact that his attacks weren't being effective due to Albert's crazy endurance, so Ayanokouji literally hit his solar plexus and took him down in a few hit. He mentioned taking down Shiba in a single hit and Tsukishiro in a matter of blows. Ayanokouji, with his immense knowledge and much higher battle IQ than Mikey, might even pull it off.

Also, I didn't that this is Kid Mikey and Kid Ayanokouji and Ayanokouji here would have higher stamina than Mikey, so, my own belief is that Ayanokouji would pull it off.

Yes, him being able to avoid all attacks is a narrative by Ryuuen, but so far, it hasn't been proven false. Even when being drained of stamina, Ayanokouji avoided all of Nanase's attacks, and after that, all of Tsukishiro and Shiba's attacks. Even if Mikey's dark impulse awakens and he is determined to kill Ayanokouji, we can easily say that Ayanokouji's motivation to kill Mikey should be much higher (as he should be ordered to kill Mikey, and this Ayanokouji has orders above everything). Ayanokouji has crazy adaptability which allows him to absorb enemy techniques and modify them to a better extent, so, if we see this, Ayanokouji should be able to do a roundhouse kick better than Mikey if he sees him perform one.

AP: Mikey
Speed: Equalized
Battle Intelligence: Ayanokouji
Martial Arts & Skills: Ayanokouji

I believe Ayanokouji would hit Mikey in his vital organs and win this fight very easily. Switching my vote to Ayanokouji until someone convinces me that this wouldn't happen.

I think you missed our point with Arnold. Signature Kicks of Mikey counts as Attack Speed (you can see it in his profile too) and Attack Speed doesn't get equalized in speed equalized battles, meaning Mikey's signature kick is still faster than Koji's combat and reaction speed. Even if Koji blocks the kick, the AP difference would either heavily injure or knock him out.