The Ho-Oh upscale

[Arceus0x]

So Kukui is MIA and idk where he went and since the thread would need either him to come back or a miracle to revive, I decided that I'll do it myself.

To make a long story short, Ho-Oh's singular feather had enough energy to create a massive mountain-range spanning storm.

Here is my calc

here is the currently wrong calc that was originally used and has the scans.

So originally I though this feather would be one of the more beautiful ones of Ho-Oh but honestly we don't know that, it is unclear which feather it is. All that is clear is that it is a feather.

This means a simple thing - use it as a high and low end.

My proposal is At least 6-A, likely High 6-A

Now what is the AP?

6-A scales to 2.6 Petatons as in the calc by using the 68 big feathers.
High 6-A is more weird.

According to this Songbirds have 1500-3000 feathers, birds of prey have around 5000 to 8000.

Option 1: Go with the lowest end - 1500*38.674 = 58011 Teratons or 58 Petatons - High 6-A

Option 2: Go with the highest end - 8000*38.674 = 309392 Teratons or 309 Petatons - High 6-A

Option 3: Go with the middle ground - (1500+8000)/2 = 4750 | 4750*38.674 = 183701.5 Teratons or 183 Petatons - High 6-A

Option 4: Go with the lowest bird of prey end - 5000*38.674 = 193370 Teratons or 193 Petatons - High 6-A

Overall: still High 6-A, just a matter of level.

OPTION EXTRA: Pure High 6-A for Ho-Oh.

Who would scale?
-Lugia - full scale | Shadow Lugia upscales
-Bird trio (Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, galar vers.) - downscale
-Dog trio (Entei, Suicune, Raicou) - downscale
-Celebi - upscale from Suicune
-Latios/Latias - scale to bird trio | Megas upscale
-Shaymin - downscale from bird trio
-Manaphy - downscale from bird trio
-Phione - idk if that mf even has a profile
-Meloetta - downscale from bird trio
-Sword trio & Keldeo - scale to bird trio
-Genie trio - scale to bird trio | incarnate forms scale above
-Volcanion - scale to bird trio
-Hoopa - scale to bird trio
-Diancie - scale to bird trio
-Marshadow - weirdly enough he is directly powered by the feather so he just downscales a bit from 38 teratons, making him the only 6-B Pokemon lmao
-Calyrex and his horses - scale to bird trio

EDIT:
Regis are generally portrayed as above the birds, making them scale to the bird trio
Groudon and Kyogre are above the regi trio's power combined. They'd scale to at most 463.5 Petatons

 

[AyOgUyS]

Bird of prey end seems fine for me

 

[Random-Helper323]

Funny thing is that even the full birds of prey measurement is a low end of sorts since Ho-Oh has a whole body under those feathers.

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

This is huge damn

 

[Random-Helper323]

So Kukui is MIA and idk where he went and since the thread would need either him to come back or a miracle to revive, I decided that I'll do it myself.

To make a long story short, Ho-Oh's singular feather had enough energy to create a massive mountain-range spanning storm.

Here is my calc

here is the currently wrong calc that was originally used and has the scans.

So originally I though this feather would be one of the more beautiful ones of Ho-Oh but honestly we don't know that, it is unclear which feather it is. All that is clear is that it is a feather.

This means a simple thing - use it as a high and low end.

My proposal is At least 6-A, likely High 6-A

Now what is the AP?

6-A scales to 2.6 Petatons as in the calc by using the 68 big feathers.
High 6-A is more weird.

According to this Songbirds have 1500-3000 feathers, birds of prey have around 5000 to 8000.

Option 1: Go with the lowest end - 1500*38.674 = 58011 Teratons or 58 Petatons - High 6-A

Option 2: Go with the highest end - 8000*38.674 = 309392 Teratons or 309 Petatons - High 6-A

Option 3: Go with the middle ground - (1500+8000)/2 = 4750 | 4750*38.674 = 183701.5 Teratons or 183 Petatons - High 6-A

Option 4: Go with the lowest bird of prey end - 5000*38.674 = 193370 Teratons or 193 Petatons - High 6-A

Overall: still High 6-A, just a matter of level.

OPTION EXTRA: Pure High 6-A for Ho-Oh.

I'm fine with the bird of prey version for starters.

 

[Arceus0x]

Bird of prey end seems fine for me

I'm fine with the bird of prey version for starters.

Bird of prey measurement as in the highest end or the 5000 end?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Bird of prey measurement as in the highest end or the 5000 end?

Honestly, highest is fine by me. Ho-Oh's power is in its whole body, not only in its feathers. And it's very visibly a bird of prey with its large wings, claws and massive beak.

 

[Arceus0x]

Honestly, highest is fine by me. Ho-Oh's power is in its whole body, not only in its feathers. And it's very visibly a bird of prey with its large wings, claws and massive beak.

Problem with that is - it would outscale Groudon and Kyogre which seems very unlikely atm.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Problem with that is - it would outscale Groudon and Kyogre which seems very unlikely atm.

To be honest, that alone isn't as much of an issue as people seem to think.

Anyway, if you want to be conservative you could just use the baseline for how many feathers a bird has.

 

[Arceus0x]

To be honest, that alone isn't as much of an issue as people seem to think.

Anyway, if you want to be conservative you could just use the baseline for how many feathers a bird has.

No I'm just saying that we may have to extend the scaling further

As in

Bird trio ~ Regi Trio

Groudon + Kyogre = 3 regis
Groudon and Kyogre downscale from 463.5 petatons

That is an option.

 

[Arceus0x]

Bump

 

[Arceus0x]

I've update the OP with the regi upscale

Bump

 

[OrangeFR]

High end looks good to me. BTW you will have to make sure the blog post for the calc has whatever end we go with in it, since rn it has Ho-Oh at Continent+.

 

[Arceus0x]

High end looks good to me. BTW you will have to make sure the blog post for the calc has whatever end we go with in it, since rn it has Ho-Oh at Continent+.

yep

 

[Arceus0x]

Bump

 

[Random-Helper323]

We can wait a bit longer then I might ping some staff.

 

[Imaginym]

Option 4: Go with the lowest bird of prey end - 5000*38.674 = 193370 Teratons or 193 Petatons - High 6-A

I'm okay with this option, Option 4. Hopefully that's unproblematic.

To be honest, that alone isn't as much of an issue as people seem to think.

Anyway, if you want to be conservative you could just use the baseline for how many feathers a bird has.

What do you think about this?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

OP looks fine to me. Nice job, bro!

 

[Zenith_Enigma]

Easy agreement for me.

 

[Arceus0x]

What do you think about this?

so lemme ask you

would you be fine if I scaled the lowest mythicals to Marshadow? We used to scale them all to bird trio cause they were the weakest legendaries but now Marshadow fits the role.
I am suggesting Meloetta, Manaphy, Phione, base Hoopa, Shaymin (both forms unless we have a better scale) to be downscaling from 38 teratons

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

Even though I barely know the full lore when it comes to Pokemón, I don't see why not that Ho-Oh can be straight up High 6-A if the feats do hold up in consistency

 

[Arceus0x]

Even though I barely know the full lore when it comes to Pokemón, I don't see why not that Ho-Oh can be straight up High 6-A if the feats do hold up in consistency

I mean, Lugia does a High 6-C feat by flapping its wings, wouldn't be surprising if Ho-Oh does a 6-B one with a single feather

 

[Imaginym]

so lemme ask you

would you be fine if I scaled the lowest mythicals to Marshadow? We used to scale them all to bird trio cause they were the weakest legendaries but now Marshadow fits the role.
I am suggesting Meloetta, Manaphy, Phione, base Hoopa, Shaymin (both forms unless we have a better scale) to be downscaling from 38 teratons

What's the basis of Marshadow's rating?

 

[Arceus0x]

What's the basis of Marshadow's rating?

he was powered by the feather

 

[Imaginym]

he was powered by the feather

Apologies, I'm not 100% clear on the events of the movie.

This is what Bulbapedia says about it:

Spoiler: Long excerpt

They come across a cave where Sorrel and Lucario happen to be and help Charmander back to health. Entei and several other Pokémon arrive to sleep for the night and Ash reveals the Rainbow Wing. Sorrel reveals that Ho-Oh only gives the Wing to the "rainbow hero" who is destined to fight it, as a shadow Pokémon named Marshadow watches. The next morning, Ash convinces Charmander to join them. Team Rocket follows the group, as they venture on a journey to Mount Tensei to find the Legendary Pokémon. During their travels, Caterpie evolves into a Metapod, Verity spots a Suicune and Charmander evolves into Charmeleon. After giving his mother a call at another Pokémon Center, Ash learns from Sorrel that the Rainbow Wing can lose its color when it is in the possession of someone with a cold heart. Eventually, while battling other Trainers in town, Ash is challenged by Cross to a Pokémon battle with his Charmeleon against his Incineroar. Charmeleon is savagely defeated, and Cross talks down to Ash, causing him much grief.

Still upset over his loss, Ash openly admits that he could have won with Pikachu and runs away. Pikachu follows Ash, as the two argue over Ash's behavior. He states that he wished he had gotten Bulbasaur or Squirtle as his first partner Pokémon instead of Pikachu. Ash realizes that he's all alone, as Pikachu has stopped following him. As Ash declares that he doesn't need anyone, Marshadow puts Ash in a sleep-like state as the Rainbow Wing turns dark. Ash dreams he is in a world where no Pokémon exist and where he attends regular school with his friends. Realizing that something is missing, he remembers Pikachu and wakes up to his friends, and the Wing regains its color. Sorrel shares a story of a time he lost a friend being a Luxray, who died protecting a young Sorrel from a snowstorm. The group is soon surrounded by some angry Primeape. Ash calls out his Metapod, who evolves into Butterfree as they escape from the pack of Primeape. They rescue a pink Butterfree from a Fearow and realize that Ash's Butterfree needs to mate. Ash decides to lets his Butterfree go so that it can be happy with its mate. Although Ash is sad about releasing Butterfree, he feels like he made the right decision, and that they will always be friends no matter what. The group soon spots a Raikou and realizes they are getting close when the Wing begins to glow in the direction of Mount Tensei.

The group makes it there and meets Bonji, an old researcher who has been studying Ho-Oh for years. They make it to a crystal-like structure at Mount Tensei, with Jessie, James and Meowth still hot on their trail. They are interrupted by Cross, who wants to fight Ho-Oh himself, as he also saw Ho-Oh, but didn't receive a wing from it. Cross's Incineroar fights Ash's Charmeleon, who quickly evolves into Charizard and defeats Incineroar. Cross, refusing to accept his loss, takes the Rainbow Wing away from Ash and places it on the crystal. But due to the wing being in the possession of a Trainer with a cold heart, it turns dark, causing Marshadow, as Ho-Oh's agent, to possess the wild Pokémon and Cross's Midnight Form Lycanroc to attack the humans. The Trainers use their Pokémon to fight back. After Charizard protects Cross from an attack, he sees the error of his ways and helps the group out, even snapping his Lycanroc out of Marshadow's control. Being weakened by Marshadow and the other Pokémon, Ash tells Pikachu to get in his Poké Ball, but Pikachu refuses because he always wants to stay by Ash's side. However, Ash finally forces him into his Poké Ball as the Pokémon attacks Ash, causing his body to disappear. In despair, Pikachu emits a large Thunderbolt attack sending Marshadow and its army flying, releasing them from the Rainbow Wing's corruption. Marshadow notices the wing has disintegrated as Pikachu continues crying out for its Trainer.

Ash finds himself in a parallel world but is brought back, presumably through Ho-Oh's power when Ash protected Pikachu. Ash and Pikachu embrace as he takes the newly formed Rainbow Wing and places it on the crystal structure. Ho-Oh arrives, healing Ash, his friends, and the Pokémon and Ash challenges it with Pikachu to battle. Later that day, the gang return to the Pokémon Center after Pikachu's battle with Ho-Oh. Back at Mount Tensei, Bonji makes a speech about Ho-Oh finding a new Trainer to leave its Wing to, as Marshadow watches. Cross leaves on good terms with the group and makes a promise to Ash that they will have a battle again someday. Eventually Ash, Verity, and Sorrel split up so they can achieve their own goals: Verity to become a famous trainer like her mother, Sorrel to find the three legendary birds of Kanto, and for Ash to become a Pokémon Master. Ash and Pikachu decide to continue their journey, hoping to encounter many friends and Pokémon in the incredible world of Pokémon.

But what is the evidence the Ho-Oh feather is a power source for Marshadow, rather than something used as indicator of someone having a dark heart &/or being vulnerable to Marshadow's power, what with the Rainbow Wing turning dark right before Marshadow puts Ash into a sleep-like state where he dreams of being in a world where no Pokemon exist?

Apologies if I've been negligent in my checking, but I currently don't know of the evidence for this, despite Marshadow mentioning Ho-oh's feather in its AP's justification, which itself links to a blog, that only says regarding Marshadow "In the movie Pokémon I Choose You when a feather of Ho-oh corrupts with negative energy, it creates a great storm that covers an entire mountainous region and serves as energy source for Marshadow.", but I'm not sure that statement is evidence enough, if you'll forgive my saying so.

 

[Arceus0x]

Apologies, I'm not 100% clear on the events of the movie.

This is what Bulbapedia says about it:

Spoiler: Long excerpt

They come across a cave where Sorrel and Lucario happen to be and help Charmander back to health. Entei and several other Pokémon arrive to sleep for the night and Ash reveals the Rainbow Wing. Sorrel reveals that Ho-Oh only gives the Wing to the "rainbow hero" who is destined to fight it, as a shadow Pokémon named Marshadow watches. The next morning, Ash convinces Charmander to join them. Team Rocket follows the group, as they venture on a journey to Mount Tensei to find the Legendary Pokémon. During their travels, Caterpie evolves into a Metapod, Verity spots a Suicune and Charmander evolves into Charmeleon. After giving his mother a call at another Pokémon Center, Ash learns from Sorrel that the Rainbow Wing can lose its color when it is in the possession of someone with a cold heart. Eventually, while battling other Trainers in town, Ash is challenged by Cross to a Pokémon battle with his Charmeleon against his Incineroar. Charmeleon is savagely defeated, and Cross talks down to Ash, causing him much grief.

Still upset over his loss, Ash openly admits that he could have won with Pikachu and runs away. Pikachu follows Ash, as the two argue over Ash's behavior. He states that he wished he had gotten Bulbasaur or Squirtle as his first partner Pokémon instead of Pikachu. Ash realizes that he's all alone, as Pikachu has stopped following him. As Ash declares that he doesn't need anyone, Marshadow puts Ash in a sleep-like state as the Rainbow Wing turns dark. Ash dreams he is in a world where no Pokémon exist and where he attends regular school with his friends. Realizing that something is missing, he remembers Pikachu and wakes up to his friends, and the Wing regains its color. Sorrel shares a story of a time he lost a friend being a Luxray, who died protecting a young Sorrel from a snowstorm. The group is soon surrounded by some angry Primeape. Ash calls out his Metapod, who evolves into Butterfree as they escape from the pack of Primeape. They rescue a pink Butterfree from a Fearow and realize that Ash's Butterfree needs to mate. Ash decides to lets his Butterfree go so that it can be happy with its mate. Although Ash is sad about releasing Butterfree, he feels like he made the right decision, and that they will always be friends no matter what. The group soon spots a Raikou and realizes they are getting close when the Wing begins to glow in the direction of Mount Tensei.

The group makes it there and meets Bonji, an old researcher who has been studying Ho-Oh for years. They make it to a crystal-like structure at Mount Tensei, with Jessie, James and Meowth still hot on their trail. They are interrupted by Cross, who wants to fight Ho-Oh himself, as he also saw Ho-Oh, but didn't receive a wing from it. Cross's Incineroar fights Ash's Charmeleon, who quickly evolves into Charizard and defeats Incineroar. Cross, refusing to accept his loss, takes the Rainbow Wing away from Ash and places it on the crystal. But due to the wing being in the possession of a Trainer with a cold heart, it turns dark, causing Marshadow, as Ho-Oh's agent, to possess the wild Pokémon and Cross's Midnight Form Lycanroc to attack the humans. The Trainers use their Pokémon to fight back. After Charizard protects Cross from an attack, he sees the error of his ways and helps the group out, even snapping his Lycanroc out of Marshadow's control. Being weakened by Marshadow and the other Pokémon, Ash tells Pikachu to get in his Poké Ball, but Pikachu refuses because he always wants to stay by Ash's side. However, Ash finally forces him into his Poké Ball as the Pokémon attacks Ash, causing his body to disappear. In despair, Pikachu emits a large Thunderbolt attack sending Marshadow and its army flying, releasing them from the Rainbow Wing's corruption. Marshadow notices the wing has disintegrated as Pikachu continues crying out for its Trainer.

Ash finds himself in a parallel world but is brought back, presumably through Ho-Oh's power when Ash protected Pikachu. Ash and Pikachu embrace as he takes the newly formed Rainbow Wing and places it on the crystal structure. Ho-Oh arrives, healing Ash, his friends, and the Pokémon and Ash challenges it with Pikachu to battle. Later that day, the gang return to the Pokémon Center after Pikachu's battle with Ho-Oh. Back at Mount Tensei, Bonji makes a speech about Ho-Oh finding a new Trainer to leave its Wing to, as Marshadow watches. Cross leaves on good terms with the group and makes a promise to Ash that they will have a battle again someday. Eventually Ash, Verity, and Sorrel split up so they can achieve their own goals: Verity to become a famous trainer like her mother, Sorrel to find the three legendary birds of Kanto, and for Ash to become a Pokémon Master. Ash and Pikachu decide to continue their journey, hoping to encounter many friends and Pokémon in the incredible world of Pokémon.

But what is the evidence the Ho-Oh feather is a power source for Marshadow, rather than something used as indicator of someone having a dark heart &/or being vulnerable to Marshadow's power, what with the Rainbow Wing turning dark right before Marshadow puts Ash into a sleep-like state where he dreams of being in a world where no Pokemon exist?

Apologies if I've been negligent in my checking, but I currently don't know of the evidence for this, despite Marshadow mentioning Ho-oh's feather in its AP's justification, which itself links to a blog, that only says regarding Marshadow "In the movie Pokémon I Choose You when a feather of Ho-oh corrupts with negative energy, it creates a great storm that covers an entire mountainous region and serves as energy source for Marshadow.", but I'm not sure that statement is evidence enough, if you'll forgive my saying so.

I actually don't know. I went off the profile AP explanation

 

[Arceus0x]

Bump

 

[KingTempest]

I'm fine with option 4

 

[Arceus0x]

Apologies, I'm not 100% clear on the events of the movie.

This is what Bulbapedia says about it:

Spoiler: Long excerpt

They come across a cave where Sorrel and Lucario happen to be and help Charmander back to health. Entei and several other Pokémon arrive to sleep for the night and Ash reveals the Rainbow Wing. Sorrel reveals that Ho-Oh only gives the Wing to the "rainbow hero" who is destined to fight it, as a shadow Pokémon named Marshadow watches. The next morning, Ash convinces Charmander to join them. Team Rocket follows the group, as they venture on a journey to Mount Tensei to find the Legendary Pokémon. During their travels, Caterpie evolves into a Metapod, Verity spots a Suicune and Charmander evolves into Charmeleon. After giving his mother a call at another Pokémon Center, Ash learns from Sorrel that the Rainbow Wing can lose its color when it is in the possession of someone with a cold heart. Eventually, while battling other Trainers in town, Ash is challenged by Cross to a Pokémon battle with his Charmeleon against his Incineroar. Charmeleon is savagely defeated, and Cross talks down to Ash, causing him much grief.

Still upset over his loss, Ash openly admits that he could have won with Pikachu and runs away. Pikachu follows Ash, as the two argue over Ash's behavior. He states that he wished he had gotten Bulbasaur or Squirtle as his first partner Pokémon instead of Pikachu. Ash realizes that he's all alone, as Pikachu has stopped following him. As Ash declares that he doesn't need anyone, Marshadow puts Ash in a sleep-like state as the Rainbow Wing turns dark. Ash dreams he is in a world where no Pokémon exist and where he attends regular school with his friends. Realizing that something is missing, he remembers Pikachu and wakes up to his friends, and the Wing regains its color. Sorrel shares a story of a time he lost a friend being a Luxray, who died protecting a young Sorrel from a snowstorm. The group is soon surrounded by some angry Primeape. Ash calls out his Metapod, who evolves into Butterfree as they escape from the pack of Primeape. They rescue a pink Butterfree from a Fearow and realize that Ash's Butterfree needs to mate. Ash decides to lets his Butterfree go so that it can be happy with its mate. Although Ash is sad about releasing Butterfree, he feels like he made the right decision, and that they will always be friends no matter what. The group soon spots a Raikou and realizes they are getting close when the Wing begins to glow in the direction of Mount Tensei.

The group makes it there and meets Bonji, an old researcher who has been studying Ho-Oh for years. They make it to a crystal-like structure at Mount Tensei, with Jessie, James and Meowth still hot on their trail. They are interrupted by Cross, who wants to fight Ho-Oh himself, as he also saw Ho-Oh, but didn't receive a wing from it. Cross's Incineroar fights Ash's Charmeleon, who quickly evolves into Charizard and defeats Incineroar. Cross, refusing to accept his loss, takes the Rainbow Wing away from Ash and places it on the crystal. But due to the wing being in the possession of a Trainer with a cold heart, it turns dark, causing Marshadow, as Ho-Oh's agent, to possess the wild Pokémon and Cross's Midnight Form Lycanroc to attack the humans. The Trainers use their Pokémon to fight back. After Charizard protects Cross from an attack, he sees the error of his ways and helps the group out, even snapping his Lycanroc out of Marshadow's control. Being weakened by Marshadow and the other Pokémon, Ash tells Pikachu to get in his Poké Ball, but Pikachu refuses because he always wants to stay by Ash's side. However, Ash finally forces him into his Poké Ball as the Pokémon attacks Ash, causing his body to disappear. In despair, Pikachu emits a large Thunderbolt attack sending Marshadow and its army flying, releasing them from the Rainbow Wing's corruption. Marshadow notices the wing has disintegrated as Pikachu continues crying out for its Trainer.

Ash finds himself in a parallel world but is brought back, presumably through Ho-Oh's power when Ash protected Pikachu. Ash and Pikachu embrace as he takes the newly formed Rainbow Wing and places it on the crystal structure. Ho-Oh arrives, healing Ash, his friends, and the Pokémon and Ash challenges it with Pikachu to battle. Later that day, the gang return to the Pokémon Center after Pikachu's battle with Ho-Oh. Back at Mount Tensei, Bonji makes a speech about Ho-Oh finding a new Trainer to leave its Wing to, as Marshadow watches. Cross leaves on good terms with the group and makes a promise to Ash that they will have a battle again someday. Eventually Ash, Verity, and Sorrel split up so they can achieve their own goals: Verity to become a famous trainer like her mother, Sorrel to find the three legendary birds of Kanto, and for Ash to become a Pokémon Master. Ash and Pikachu decide to continue their journey, hoping to encounter many friends and Pokémon in the incredible world of Pokémon.

But what is the evidence the Ho-Oh feather is a power source for Marshadow, rather than something used as indicator of someone having a dark heart &/or being vulnerable to Marshadow's power, what with the Rainbow Wing turning dark right before Marshadow puts Ash into a sleep-like state where he dreams of being in a world where no Pokemon exist?

Apologies if I've been negligent in my checking, but I currently don't know of the evidence for this, despite Marshadow mentioning Ho-oh's feather in its AP's justification, which itself links to a blog, that only says regarding Marshadow "In the movie Pokémon I Choose You when a feather of Ho-oh corrupts with negative energy, it creates a great storm that covers an entire mountainous region and serves as energy source for Marshadow.", but I'm not sure that statement is evidence enough, if you'll forgive my saying so.

Idk what to do with Marshadow. Should I just leave him at High 6-A via birds scaling? Y'all could revise it later if you dislike it

 

[OrangeFR]

Idk what to do with Marshadow. Should I just leave him at High 6-A via birds scaling? Y'all could revise it later if you dislike it

js scale to birds prob

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'm fine with option 4

Applied. This can be closed.