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Kenganverse Discussion Thread Omega/2

Muteba should be " Likely [ whatever tier Waka and Julius end up ]" since he knocked out Wakatsuki for a moment with just one jab and took several hits from him, on top of surviving a direct Blast Core (although with heavy damage).
 
Yeah Muteba downscales from Waka for being able to damage him and such. The only reason Waka survived the neck stab was because of his muscle density and his reflexes which allowed him to clench his neck muscles.
 
Also implied that he could kill Julius despite him stating in the same panel that Takeshi & Reinhold are the physically strongest fighters in the tournament "Likely High 8-C" would be cool.
 
Okay, I'll give my arguments. At the time I can't post scans or anything, sorry, but I point out the chapters where the events happened. I tried not to go too long with them, sorry if I did it anyway.

1) Muteba shouldn't have class 5 lifting strength. When grappling with Wakatsuki, he said he was completely outmatched and wasn't expecting the man was that strong (Therefore, this means he miscalculated and underestimated Julius's strength as well, who is stronger than Wakatsuki) and he could only free himself using acupuncture.

2) The only time he did real damage to Wakatsuki was with that hit in the neck, which is one of the weakest parts of the body (And we know that the author of this manga sticks to this kind of anatomical things). His other attacks did like zero damage. So this is not about Muteba being too strong, but what happens is that's a vital, so to speak. A weak point. That's Muteba's fighting style, to strike the enemy's weak points.

3) The only time Muteba received a hit he didn't block or dodge was in 191 and 192 (end and beginning of each chapter, it's the same punch) and despite he stepped back to lessen the damage, still he bled from his mouth. In 193, he blocked a punch and broke his arm in the process (the page has written the word "crack") and then Muteba says "If he lands a clean hit, he'll overcome me in an instant" (which means a normal blow was too much for him). After that, Wakatsuki grazes Muteba's nose with his elbow and despite not having been a clean hit, his nose was left incapacitated.

4) And, yes, Muteba survived a blast core, but the same way you'd survive a shot if it hit in the arm. He blocked it, and despite that, his arm was completely crushed and he was sent flying. If it hit the torso it would have been lethal, as the manga itself points out. Do you know who survived a Blast Core? Julius, it hit directly his torso and he could fight afterward and wasn't sent flying like that (but it hurt a lot if it hit a vital, it would have been game over for him). Actually, ff you see the fight, Wakatsuki didn't land any clean hit, but despite that, he made him a lot of damage.

5) Seeing how he underestimated Wakatsuki's strength, and how even a normal punch could mean game over to him, with Julius it would have even worse. So Muteba saying he could defeat Julius easily was just arrogance from his part (although at that point, the man hadn't used the heart jab, a durability negation technique, yet, and he wasn't expecting to use it against Seki, so maybe when he said he could defeat Julius with 0 problems, he was thinking about using this unexpected surprise technique on him).

6) Let's talk about his fight against Sekibayashi. The first attack Seki landed almost left Muteba on the floor, and he said his attacks were heavy, very heavy to the point that Seki was pushing him back (chap. 143). Then he grappled with Sekibayashi and they were even in the physical aspect (although I can't say the same for the skills). After that, Sekibayashi pulled him out a tooth with a head butt (143). Muteba while using boxing footwork made a lot of damage to Seki, even broke his bones. Later Seki made Muteba scream of pain with a hit (144) and in 145 he proceeds to give him a hit combo that made him a lot of damage (broke his nose and made him bleed a lot). And even his last move after the heart jab in 146 made Muteba bleed too, despite Seki could barely move, and then Muteba said immediately Seki was a real match to him and a true warrior.

7) And, now his fight against Meguro. The manga stated in chapter 71, while Muteba was coughing up blood after Meguro's first attack: "For a moment he stopped moving" and, when grappling, he couldn't free himself with his skills and strength. And, we can't forget he was strangling Muteba and made him bleed with a bite. And, yes, of course, he was outmatched by the mercenary, but Meguro was able to make him damage and showed a superior lifting strength. And the only time Muteba received a clean hit from Meguro, at the beginning of the fight, he was knocked out for a moment, as the manga itself stated.

So, what I believe is: Muteba could keep his tiering, but not for downscaling from Wakatsuki (Wakatsuki was incredibly superior to him to the point of being able to finish him with a normal punch) but for scaling above Kiozan's Raging Vigour, as he could break Seki's bones with his attacks, while Kiozan with this technique couldn't. Or maybe just scale to it, not above, as he broke Seki's bones just after various hits, not with one. His Class 5 lifting strength should be downgraded to Peak Human, as he was shown comparable with Seki and below Meguro in this area, and completely outmatched by Wakatsuki. And his durability... I'm not sure. Maybe a downgrade? Seki could make him real damage and Meguro knocked him out for a sec, but I don't know.

What do you think?

Sorry if the post is too long. HAHA I tried to summarize everything the best way I could.
 
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Waka and co actually need to be bumped up to class 10 in lifting strength via scaling above R1 Advance Ohma who can pull Inaba's hair off, which scales above the feat some fodder did where he pulled 8.5 tons with his hair. I agree on the rest however.
 
Okay, thank you for giving your opinion. About that last stuff, it could be. What is his best feat in that deparment? I really don't remember.
I haven't been able to check myself, but a new chapter was released today? I want to know if tomorrow I'll read it translated.
 
Possibly after you take Ohma's r2 Advance multiplier or Waka's 50 in strength in comparison to Ohma's 10 Indestructible.
 
Actually, Inaba's hair is much stronger than normal hair that can support up to 15 tons of weight according to the narrator, thus Ohma should get "At least Class 15" with the Advance, Seki and the people above him should get "At least Class 15 likely higher"
 
Oh, it's true. I didn't remember that. Huh. It happened a long time ago.
Who's ready for next fight? It should be a good one.
 
So when Julius getting an Omega Key or has body control added to his P&A section?
 
damn Monkhbat is pretty op. having a big body and yet moving faster than Ryuki! idk how Ryuki can contend with him.

also Worm is pretty big and has multiple sections.
 
About Muteba's rating, I don't see how he should be downgraded, he was clearly harming Wakatsuki throughout their figh with kicks and small jabs and it was specifically said by Wakatsuki himself that his Heart Jab would take him out too, the fact that Muteba pierced his neck isn't any less impressive given that Waka's muscle density is 52x denser than normal and he still had to flex his muscles at the last moment not to die.
About durability, Muteba was still perfectly fine after having his head dived into concrete by Sekibayashi and displayed no lasting injuries, he was also still conscious and combat ready after getting hit by a Blast Core point blank with enough force to send him flying a crack a massive fissure into the arena, albeit he suffered a broken arm. He should be "Likely [ Insert Waka's new tier]" durability simply because if he wasn't anywhere near Wakatsuki he'd get obliterated after the first punch, really.
It's also been stated that even Julius would get One Hit KOd by Waka's blast core and we all agree Julius is the toughest fighter in the series baring possibly Seki, and Muteba never said Waka would one shot him with a clean hit, he said he'd "overcome" him as in "overwhelm with his blows" because Muteba was getting rushed by Waka in that instance, he meant an actual one shot he would have said it like he did when referring to Blast Core.
 
ItalianGuy1234 said:
About Muteba's rating
Click to expand...
Not actually. He didn't made any damage to Wakatsuki, his attacks barely fazed him, or even they didn't. And, about the neck, it's a vital. The attack was lethal because it was the neck, a hit in the neck is lethal, that's how it works. Wakatsuki even said that the same atack it wouldn't be so dangerous in the other two vitals he let unprotected in purpose, the liver and the othe one I don't remember. And the main fighting style of Muteba is surprise attacks, hitting weak points, accupuncture points, durability negation techniques (being the heart jab one of them, it negates durability, it has nothing to do with strength) and stuff like that. So he's not about hitting strong, but with precision and surprise in vulnerable body parts, like the neck or joints. He did this too with Seki, as he only hit him where Kiozan provoked him the biggest injuries.

About the durabilty, not true. As I said, Sekibayashi pulled him out a tooth, broke his nose, made him scream of pain in some ocassions and made him coughing up a lot of blood many times (in one of them he could barely move, so it's impossible he was using his full strength in said attack. So Seki could make Muteba bleed even without using his full strength) and destroyed his ears. And even Meguro with a clean hit knocked him out for a second. The Blast Core would have killed him if it would have hit any other part of the body and completely crushed his arm. And Muteba said a clean hit would end him, any kind of hit (when talking about the Blast he said "that strike", or things like that to differentiate it from the others, but on that occasion he didn't use such words, but "a direct hit", so he was talking about any common strike), in the sense that Wakatsuki needed 1 hit, just 1 hit to to turn the whole fight in his favor, I never said he could one shot him, but he knew 1 hit was too much regardless. Just see that the only hit he blocked (outside the Blast Core) broke his arm. If you block a hit, and by blocking it you broke your arm, I wouldn't say you endured it at all, but quite the opposite... As that means if the hit landed, it would have broken his chest. In conclusion, Meguro could knock him out for a sec, could strangle him and injure him with a bite, Sekibayashi could broke his nose, pulled him out a tooth, made him bleed a lot and made him scream of pain, and Wakatsuki broke Muteba's arm when the man tried to block the punch.

I believe he could maintain the attack potency, as he could made greater damage to Seki than the Kiozan' Raging Vigour could, but only for that reason in my opinion. But the durabilty section seems not accurate to me when we take the other Muteba's showings into consideration.
 
You are ignoring so much context:
Muteba was clearly fazing Wakatsuki, he left bruises and was visually hurting Wakatsuki with his kicks and jabs, Muteba goes as far as saying he was/would break him down "little by little".
Wakatsuki didn't say that, at all, I just re read the fight, his comments imply that Muteba's attack to the neck was harder to counter as opposed to other vital points because Waka had to lose consciousness for a moment, and you are also ignoring the fact Muteba had to pierce Waka's muscles which are 52x denser than normal with a single jab, Waka also commented that Muteba's heart jab would take him down too, despite it having to get through his body muscles as well, either way Muteba can pierce through Wakatsuki's muscles and damage him, that's objective evidence and you can't deny it friend.

You bring up Seki as if I said he didn't damage Muteba but all I said is he didn't take lasting damage, Muteba took Sekibayashi's power bomb and all his chops and punches and then proceeded to retaliate with minimal injuries, Muteba wasn't knocked out nor had trouble getting up from his strikes, at all, he was just faking to get a clean hit on Seki, that is a fact, Sekibayashi was on the brink of death against a Muteba who held back whereas Muteba was completely fine after their encounter, the only time Seki did get a good hit was when he jammed his thumbs into his ears, that's objective I believe.

Also, you're wrong, Wakatsuki never broke Muteba's arm: Muteba received concussions on his arm, that's what happened with Ohma as well, he only broke his arm after striking him with Blast Core. Also Wakatsuki scored another clean hit against Muteba at the start of their match, Muteba took the initial impact and then dispersed the damage, doesn't look like he got his chest broken or anything.

Everyone would get overwhelmed by Wakatsuki in a slugfest, Waka's only rival in raw power is Julius, even Agito or Kuroki would get destroyed by a full combo from Takeshi.

Meguro is irrelevant to the discussion, him incapacitating Muteba for a moment is a good feat for him not an anti feat for Muteba, in fact Masaki is stated to be one of the top class grapplers of the tournament superior to Waka.

Bringing up Blast Core is a moot point, a Blast Core to the chest would kill anyone except possibly Julius and that's where Wakatsuki tried to hit Muteba, but stil Muteba had to endure the sheer power of getting blasted away across the arena with enough force to make a massive crater and yet he was still combat ready and a threat to Wakatsuki by his own admission.

You seem to be mistaken, I am not putting Muteba on the same tier as Waka, however he has the feats to suggest he should backscale from him with a "Likely [Insert new tier]", based on feats, statements and overall showings.
 
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No, no, no problem. Don't worry for that. I don't believe anything like that, we're having a calm discussion with different opinions, so everything is okay. I hope my tone is also adequate.

I don't agree too much about it. He took all his hits directly and were very uneffective in my opinion, like, none of them stopped Waka of having the advantage the whole fight, that's why he was trying to win using the Heart Jab, that is a durability negation technique, it's lethal (or almost lethal), no matter the durability of the other fighter. I believe, for example, that Gozo did more damage to Wakatsuki than Muteba when it comes to normal, direct strikes with his flying knee kick (the attack was to the face and made Waka bleed and made him
backed down considerably), but that's just my opinion. And, yes, he could say that, but I don't think that was reflected in the fight. And, at that point, his statements about Waka are not accurate, as he failed twice to properly calculate his full strength. And I believe that hit broke his arm as the page has written the word "crack". Does it say "crack" when fighting to Ohma? Whatever, could it mean another thing than a broken bone?

You know, Muteba was more of a threat due to his durability negation techniques than his strength. Like, with a technique like the heart jab, even he could take down the Fang if not wasn't for the skill gap. That's why he was a threat to Waka, the skill gap was big enough that it was quite possible for Muteba to use the Heart Jab succesfully and dodge all Waka's attacks.


About Seki, he pulled him a tooth a out with a headbutt. A tooth. And broke his nose. You can't call that minor damage, like, Muteba did less damage to Wakatsuki (with the normal strikes, not sneak attacks and such). This manga tends to portray the power gap between 8-C and 8-C+ like they are leagues away. The 8-C characters barely can damage the 8-C+ ones, the 8-C+s can one-shot or so the 8-Cs. And with that things into account, Seki pulled him out a tooth and made cough up blood many times and more. Like, someone who could withstand a direct hit from Wakatsuki, and fight without problems after that, shouldn't receive such damage from Sekibayashi (who was not at full strength, he was very injured) and Meguro. This is my problem with his durability, it seems, at the very least, weird. We could say this is my main point in this discussion about Muteba. He may have the strength to injure Waka, but his showings regarding dura are... Strange.
 
I honestly don't know who wins. Ryuki may have some pretty dangerious tecniques but even after getting serioues his attacks couldn't make Monkhbat flinched. His only was for damaging him is targeting head and shocking skull.
 
Bruh we need to calculating earthquake feat and Lu Tian already looks pretty dangerous, he casually blocked Raian's punch without even flinching. Looking at Raian's physical power it is a feat in itself.
 
I flipped for a second when I saw the panel, because I though Tian blocked the punch without touching him.

Also, I find Nicolas to be extremely... disturbing.
 
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