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KCM Naruto vs EMS Sasuke

UchihaSlayer96 said:
I don't think base Naruto will last ten seconds against EMS Sasuke, so he won't be able to recharge in time.
Click to expand...
Careful the bias is showing. Base Naruto is capable enough he can go toe in toe with Pain before he could recharge SM and even defeating Pain in the end. And also this Naruto have experience fighting 6 bijuu even when he already summoning a lot of clones prior in the war
 
KingAllen30 said:
Careful the bias is showing. Base Naruto is capable enough he can go toe in toe with Pain before he could recharge SM and even defeating Pain in the end. And also this Naruto have experience fighting 6 bijuu even when he already summoning a lot of clones prior in the war
Click to expand...
Incredibol.

So, how does base Naruto deal with Amaterasu again? Wait, he doesn't?! Crazy.
 
KingAllen30 said:
Umm by using regual cloaks? Idk
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In the scenario I was talking about, he would be out of Kyuubi chakra. Even if he has a tiny bit left, like I mentioned above, the chakra shedding strategy is rather slow and can't really counter Amaterasu spam, which this version of Sasuke is perfectly capable and willing to do.

Also, it'd be an AP and speed stomp, anyway, if Naruto reverts to base.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
In the scenario I was talking about, he would be out of Kyuubi chakra. Even if he has a tiny bit left, like I mentioned above, the chakra shedding strategy is rather slow and can't really counter Amaterasu spam, which this version of Sasuke is perfectly capable and willing to do.

Also, it'd be an AP and speed stomp, anyway, if Naruto reverts to base.
Click to expand...
IF Naruro reverts to the base you must also take the acount that Naruto in canon must reserve his energy bc he’s already using it all day in the war if this fresh Naruto vs Sasuke i doubt he run out the energy between the two
 
Galvino said:
Yall know Naruto is faster than the raikage right? Who he himself dodged amamterasu?
Click to expand...
Could you please read the profiles? The Raikage outpaced TAKA Sasuke, who's much slower than EMS Sasuke. Check the difference in their speed ratings on Sasuke's profile.
 
yall relax, ill take your word for it, i wasn't aware of how the site treats it. So knowing this now, I mean the cloak thing is an alright argument i suppose. Let's say Naruto gets hit, can he not use kurama chakra to get it off of him in a similar way the ten tails did?
 
Galvino said:
yall relax, ill take your word for it, i wasn't aware of how the site treats it. So knowing this now, I mean the cloak thing is an alright argument i suppose. Let's say Naruto gets hit, can he not use kurama chakra to get it off of him in a similar way the ten tails did?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
Galvino said:
yall relax, ill take your word for it, i wasn't aware of how the site treats it. So knowing this now, I mean the cloak thing is an alright argument i suppose. Let's say Naruto gets hit, can he not use kurama chakra to get it off of him in a similar way the ten tails did?
Click to expand...
He could, but like I said, it's a very slow method. It creates a momentary opening for Sasuke to hit him with Amaterasu again, with a Susano'o arrow, or even with Enton Yasaka Magatama spam.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The Third Raikage outright tanked the Rasenshuriken. It's been stated repeatedly that the Rasenshuriken failed to affect or damage him, save for neutralizing his Raiton Armor and some visible cracks, due to his insane durability. Heck, the chapter is literally called "The Rasenshuriken Limit!!". Anyway, leaving all that aside, the feat isn't really taken into consideration on the profiles, seeing as how KCM Naruto is not 6-C, while the Raikage is. So this whole point is kinda moot, for the time being.
As for the PS, no, it's not base Bijuu level. It scales much higher than that, to 100% Kurama at a minimum and to Sage Hashirama's Mokuton at a maximum. Currently the maximum is what's accepted, which is why Madara's PS is sitting at Low 6-B as opposed to the Bijuu who are 6-C.

Kabuto dodging him does not mean Naruto can. There's no correlation between the two.
He won't be able to dodge Amaterasu, since that only requires that Sasuke be able to perceive Naruto, which won't be a problem thanks to the EMS and his superior reactions.
As for their combat speeds, it's about even. Sasuke can run alongside Naruto, and his attacks are about as fast as Naruto's, too. Them being equally as fast only means Sasuke will have the advantage thanks to his reactions and Sharingan, which will give him an edge.

Ay was faster than that version of Sasuke, Naruto is not faster than this version of Naruto.

It doesn't matter. Kurama is susceptible to high level Sharingan Genjutsu, which Sasuke happens to be quite good at using.

It certainly is when he's already as fast as Naruto, and has literal precog, info analysis, and enhanced sight on top of it.

Naruto never spams Rasenshurikens like that, and if he does, he'll just be asking to run out of KCM.

Even BM has a time limit. He can't stay in KCM forever, especially not when he's spamming so many techniques continuously. Sure, he can recharge it pretty quickly, to be frank, I don't think base Naruto will last ten seconds against EMS Sasuke, so he won't be able to recharge in time.
Click to expand...
Breaking his armor and causing visible damage is a 6-C feat. And you're right he's not that strong, at least not in Base (or well, you know what I mean). It's like how Sasuke is higher than his rating with Susanoo, Naruto is higher with the Rasenshuriken.

I know, but a PS is FAR superior to a regular Susanoo, so saying a susanoo is above the second strongest bijuu is a bit of a stretch. Also isn't Madara Low 6-B via scaling to Kurama who's Low 6-B?

Kabuto is sub rel. Naruto is at least Sub Rel in normal KCM, letalone the mastered variant he's using in this fight.

It's been shown in the Juubito fight that it takes a small amount of time for it to form in the eyes before it's released.

You're right, Naruto isn't faster than this version of Naruto....but seriously, that's a fair point, but I think a similar thing would occur. Obviously Naruto wouldn't blitz, but given his superior speed to Kabuto, he should be able to dodge Sasuke's attacks fairly well, especially since the susanoo arrow is a technique specifically known for its speed and Kabuto dodged it.

He's susceptible to it while in his normal state. He has not shown being susceptible to it as a perfect jinchuriki. After all, couldn't the opposite genjutsu logic apply, that Naruto could break him out of the genjutsu?

And Naruto has enhanced danger sensing versatility and chakra.

Well he'd use something to get rid of the animals. Doesn't have to be rasenshuriken. Also given this panel
Naruto Chapter 617 Page 5

Kurama has at least 10ish times more chakra than Naruto, if not considering the likely half of Kurama's chakra off panel. So since Naruto can make 1 Rasenshuriken in Base (assuming that amount hasn't increased), with KCM, Naruto should be able to output 10 Rasenshuriken, bare minimum.

Naruto can use shadow clones to hold off Sasuke while waiting for it to recharge, or enter SM, which should allow him to avoid Amaterasu given its superior reactions to KCM.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Breaking his armor and causing visible damage is a 6-C feat. And you're right he's not that strong, at least not in Base (or well, you know what I mean). It's like how Sasuke is higher than his rating with Susanoo, Naruto is higher with the Rasenshuriken.
Click to expand...
Ehhhh, look, I don't necessarily disagree. I was actually considering bringing this point up during my upcoming Bijuu scaling revision, and potentially giving KCM Naruto 6-C with the FRS (for this, and other feats). Granted, that will have to wait, and Sasuke himself might be affected by that revision, so yeah. A topic for a different time lol.
As things stand, Naruto's profile doesn't scale his RS to the 3rd Raikage, and as such we can't use that in this battle for the time being.
GokuSparkle said:
I know, but a PS is FAR superior to a regular Susanoo, so saying a susanoo is above the second strongest bijuu is a bit of a stretch.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I'm not following your meaning here. Could you elaborate on what you mean? What Susano'o is stronger the what Bijuu lol? I haven't mentioned anything about that.
GokuSparkle said:
Also isn't Madara Low 6-B via scaling to Kurama who's Low 6-B?
Click to expand...
No, he's Low 6-B via scaling to Sage Mode Hashirama's Wood Release. Kurama is High 6-C, and only reaches Low 6-B with a massive heavily charged Biju Bomb.
GokuSparkle said:
Kabuto is sub rel. Naruto is at least Sub Rel in normal KCM, letalone the mastered variant he's using in this fight.
Click to expand...
If you look at Sasuke's profile, you'll see that he's also "At least Sub-Rel with Rel reactions".
On a side note, both Itachi and Kabuto should be upgraded, which was rejected during the last speed revisions for stupid reasons, but I digress. That's yet another topic for a different time.
GokuSparkle said:
It's been shown in the Juubito fight that it takes a small amount of time for it to form in the eyes before it's released.
Click to expand...
Yeah, from Juubito's persepctive, who's much faster than Sasuke. Also, it wasn't even that it took much time, it's more so about him being able to perceive the chakra being amassed with his Dojutsu, and predicting it accordingly. These are all advantages that Naruto simply does not possess here.
GokuSparkle said:
You're right, Naruto isn't faster than this version of Naruto....but seriously, that's a fair point, but I think a similar thing would occur. Obviously Naruto wouldn't blitz, but given his superior speed to Kabuto, he should be able to dodge Sasuke's attacks fairly well, especially since the susanoo arrow is a technique specifically known for its speed and Kabuto dodged it.
Click to expand...
Again, Kabuto should actually be upgraded for this feat, and more importantly there's something you're forgetting. Kabuto only dodged thanks to his Sage Mode enhanced senses and sensory capabilities, which is excellent for reactions and last minute evasions even against comparable or superior characters.
We've seen this with Naruto himself more than once, so it's not like Kabuto dodged purely thanks to his raw speed. SM reactions and danger awareness are > KCM thanks to this.
GokuSparkle said:
He's susceptible to it while in his normal state. He has not shown being susceptible to it as a perfect jinchuriki. After all, couldn't the opposite genjutsu logic apply, that Naruto could break him out of the genjutsu?
Click to expand...
No, because Naruto himself would be already under genjutsu alongside Kurama.
GokuSparkle said:
And Naruto has enhanced danger sensing versatility and chakra.
Click to expand...
Not as good as Sage Mode's, and it's not enough to balance out the advantage Sasuke has with his superior reactions and Sharingan. EMS senses > Sharingan senses > KCM senses IMO. Prediction and Analysis that actually lets him see his opponents next move with picture perfect clarity is much better than vague danger senses if you ask me.
GokuSparkle said:
Well he'd use something to get rid of the animals. Doesn't have to be rasenshuriken. Also given this panel
Naruto Chapter 617 Page 5

Kurama has at least 10ish times more chakra than Naruto, if not considering the likely half of Kurama's chakra off panel. So since Naruto can make 1 Rasenshuriken in Base (assuming that amount hasn't increased), with KCM, Naruto should be able to output 10 Rasenshuriken, bare minimum.
Click to expand...
Could you post smaller images please? Or just link it within the text for convenience lol.

Anyway, sure, let's say he can use 10 Rasenshuriken. Even an exhausted, nearly blind MS Sasuke could dish out 5 Susano'o arrows (among a bunch of other chakra consuming techniques). I don't think I need to point out why EMS Sasuke can obviously handle a lot more than 5 arrows. His superior reactions and precog will also allow him to intercept the RSs much more easily and effeciently.
GokuSparkle said:
Naruto can use shadow clones to hold off Sasuke while waiting for it to recharge, or enter SM, which should allow him to avoid Amaterasu given its superior reactions to KCM.
Click to expand...
BASE NARUTO?! Nah chief, base Naruto can't hold off EMS Sasuke. First off, the clones will be casually one shot by the Susano'o, they have terrible durability, and Sasuke has much better spammy options such as Amaterasu enahnced Yasaka Magatama spam, Enton or Amaterasu shenanigans, or just sweeping them aside with a giant chakra/amaterasu blade.
More importantly, Naruto will never be able to recharge KCM or go into SM before getting one-shot. The power, speed, and hax difference will simply be too massive, in addition to how long the process of entering Sage Mode actually needs. He needs to be still, too, which is practically asking to be one-shot against Sasuke. He'd literally only need to stare at the still Naruto in order to one-shot him with Amaterasu or something of the sort.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Ehhhh, look, I don't necessarily disagree. I was actually considering bringing this point up during my upcoming Bijuu scaling revision, and potentially giving KCM Naruto 6-C with the FRS (for this, and other feats). Granted, that will have to wait, and Sasuke himself might be affected by that revision, so yeah. A topic for a different time lol.
As things stand, Naruto's profile doesn't scale his RS to the 3rd Raikage, and as such we can't use that in this battle for the time being.

Sorry, but I'm not following your meaning here. Could you elaborate on what you mean? What Susano'o is stronger the what Bijuu lol? I haven't mentioned anything about that.

No, he's Low 6-B via scaling to Sage Mode Hashirama's Wood Release. Kurama is High 6-C, and only reaches Low 6-B with a massive heavily charged Biju Bomb.

If you look at Sasuke's profile, you'll see that he's also "At least Sub-Rel with Rel reactions".
On a side note, both Itachi and Kabuto should be upgraded, which was rejected during the last speed revisions for stupid reasons, but I digress. That's yet another topic for a different time.

Yeah, from Juubito's persepctive, who's much faster than Sasuke. Also, it wasn't even that it took much time, it's more so about him being able to perceive the chakra being amassed with his Dojutsu, and predicting it accordingly. These are all advantages that Naruto simply does not possess here.

Again, Kabuto should actually be upgraded for this feat, and more importantly there's something you're forgetting. Kabuto only dodged thanks to his Sage Mode enhanced senses and sensory capabilities, which is excellent for reactions and last minute evasions even against comparable or superior characters.
We've seen this with Naruto himself more than once, so it's not like Kabuto dodged purely thanks to his raw speed. SM reactions and danger awareness are > KCM thanks to this.

No, because Naruto himself would be already under genjutsu alongside Kurama.

Not as good as Sage Mode's, and it's not enough to balance out the advantage Sasuke has with his superior reactions and Sharingan. EMS senses > Sharingan senses > KCM senses IMO. Prediction and Analysis that actually lets him see his opponents next move with picture perfect clarity is much better than vague danger senses if you ask me.

Could you post smaller images please? Or just link it within the text for convenience lol.

Anyway, sure, let's say he can use 10 Rasenshuriken. Even an exhausted, nearly blind MS Sasuke could dish out 5 Susano'o arrows (among a bunch of other chakra consuming techniques). I don't think I need to point out why EMS Sasuke can obviously handle a lot more than 5 arrows. His superior reactions and precog will also allow him to intercept the RSs much more easily and effeciently.

BASE NARUTO?! Nah chief, base Naruto can't hold off EMS Sasuke. First off, the clones will be casually one shot by the Susano'o, they have terrible durability, and Sasuke has much better spammy options such as Amaterasu enahnced Yasaka Magatama spam, Enton or Amaterasu shenanigans, or just sweeping them aside with a giant chakra/amaterasu blade.
More importantly, Naruto will never be able to recharge KCM or go into SM before getting one-shot. The power, speed, and hax difference will simply be too massive, in addition to how long the process of entering Sage Mode actually needs. He needs to be still, too, which is practically asking to be one-shot against Sasuke. He'd literally only need to stare at the still Naruto in order to one-shot him with Amaterasu or something of the sort.
Click to expand...
Well anyways Susanoo is only vaguely stated above HIgh 7-A, not a specific amount, so there isn't precedence for multiple rasenshuriken not breaking the susanoo.

I mean bc Rasenshuriken damaged Ay who is above Gyuki, a rasenshuriken not destoying the susanoo would mean it's more durable than Gyuki. But I guess that's not relevant atm

Ah that makes more sense. I thought Hashirama only being considered High 6-C. I thought it was a classic vsbw moment but I guess not. But that's kinda weird. Madara only ever competed with SM Hashirama with majestic attire, prior Hashirama was fighting just fine in Base.

I mean...using your logic, based on the current ratings, Naruto has the speed necessary to avoid Sasuke's attacks.

Naruto can sense killing intent very effectively, all across the world.

Kabuto's reactions aren't considered at least sub rel still. If that's revised, maybe you have a point, until then, Naruto can dodge Sasuke.

Proof EMS Sasuke can put Naruto and Kurama under genjutsu simultaneously?

EMS being the best I can understand, but I don't think base sharingan is superior.

I thought images were better

10 was a conservative value. He can likely use more. But anyways, is there proof an arrow will stop a rasenshuriken? If anything, I'm pretty sure the impact will make the rasenshuriken explode, and if it's close enough to Sasuke, it'll reach him anyways cause that explosion's big af.

Yeah, but even Kaguya was held back for a while by enough inferior shadow clones she was one shotting. Base Naruto can't make as much, but he can still comfortly make hundreds to thousands, and if they cover and protect the original (like literally surrounding Sasuke's line of sight so that he can't target the original), Naruto will have enough time for Kurama/enter SM.

Besides, only Madara was stated to be able to know what is and isn't a clone, so Sasuke would be hacking away at them blindly, not having any idea where the original is, so that would be very helpful.
 
Oh boy seems like we might be looking at an inconclusive match unless one of them miraculously gets 4 more votes and the other doesn't get any.
 
Tbf a draw between them at this point in the story makes perfect sense, in-verse, so this might be the most appropriate outcome in the end lol.
 
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