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Katekyo Hitman Reborn Upscaling via Black Holes

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YukaSama4 said:
If you ask about why according to KHR it's hyperbolic, then that's not what I meant, I don't think any thing in the series contradicts the universal tier, the thing is, as far as I'm aware of our standards here, you can't upgrade a verse from island level to universe based on a one statement, it's subjective yeah, you might think one statement is enough, but on this site it's not.

No, on these things I follow the CGMs evaluation, because it's a mathematical discussion.

I'm about to sleep now, its 5am here but we might talk about it later, I will add you tomorrow


After this thread someone should make a 2B Yuni thread
Click to expand...
Well the first part is just an appeal to authority. regardless of what someone might say, the upscale logically makes sense. Tsuna had gotten a massive power upgrade right before this feat. It's not like the power came out of nowhere. Who's to say it wouldn't amplify his scale to such a degree? The statement along with the reasoning of expanding a singularity, a point of infinite density, is what supports it. I also addressed this in the post where I go over if a feat is an outlier. I'm asking you fr what you believe it to be, not this site. If you are saying it is not reasonable enough, I'd like to ask why instead of getting a "the site said it isn't" type of response. The point is that the feat has a statement from the most credible source within the universe and it has the line of logic to back it up. At that point, you would need to disprove it as there is a preponderance of evidence against not being universal.

Just @ me on discord or here whenever you are ready to hop in vc.
 
Now out of the reasons stated above a regular 3-dimensional character would get destroyed when approaching the singularity (the center of the black hole). The tidal forces would become infinite and he or she would be destroyed no matter how high his or her durability is. As such, since saying that a characters durability is infinite is usually an enormous outlier, surviving a singularity can extremely seldom be taken as a durability feat. It can only be understood as a feat for resistance against black holes.
Click to expand...
 
Hmmm. You survive a point where you have infinite amount of force collapsing in on you, that is infinite durability.
 
You can also add the scans of Reborn being a famous math magician btw
Everything there should be fine enough but adding that would definitely help in case there's lingering doubts
 
Done

Anyways i'm Neutral on Universal and MFTL+(probably would get rejected due to the nature of the site)

and i agree with the Black hole and FTL proposals


Shit i might need to calc another feat that happened in the future arc where kikyo reacted to security lasers and a recalc of zakuro's volcano feat
 
Violatas said:
You're very much underestimating the size of event horizons. They extend for hundreds of meters. You don't literally have to be inside a black hole to be in the event horizon.
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Not how they work in the slightest.
event horizons can be smaller then a atom, they do not have a set size
 
theultimate5105 said:
Not how they work in the slightest.
event horizons can be smaller then a atom, they do not have a set size
Click to expand...
How does that even matter when Reborn stated that even light can't escape there and Tsuna did.

They definitely were talking about the place where Tsuna was, they won't just make that statement in that scene if it's irrelevant to Tsuna.
 
YukaSama4 said:
How does that even matter when Reborn stated that even light can't escape there and Tsuna did.

They definitely were talking about the place where Tsuna was, they won't just make that statement in that scene if it's irrelevant to Tsuna.
Click to expand...
Yeah that doesn’t really mean much at all when even light cannot escape is a common way of describing black holes and just saying it cannot escape without context means nothing for The outside of the black hole
Hell the event horizon would need to be far larger then what is shown, which contradicts that so no FTL regardless
 
theultimate5105 said:
Not how they work in the slightest.
event horizons can be smaller then a atom, they do not have a set size
Click to expand...
Wrong
"The basic structure of a black hole consists of a singularity hidden by an event horizon. Within the event horizon, the escape speed (vesc) exceeds the speed of the light (c) and an object is trapped forever. Outside the event horizon, vesc < c and the object is able to escape"

For the event horizon to literally have been as small as you're saying, Tsuna wouldn't have needed to have to move FTL to escape the black holes, and in the panel shown, he's literally on top of the black hole. Again, being inside an event horizon doesn't require you to be sitting inside a black hole at all. If you're right on top of a black hole, ftl speeds is highly likely needed to escape
 
Violatas said:
Wrong
"The basic structure of a black hole consists of a singularity hidden by an event horizon. Within the event horizon, the escape speed (vesc) exceeds the speed of the light (c) and an object is trapped forever. Outside the event horizon, vesc < c and the object is able to escape"

For the event horizon to literally have been as small as you're saying, Tsuna wouldn't have needed to have to move FTL to escape the black holes, and in the panel shown, he's literally on top of the black hole. Again, being inside an event horizon doesn't require you to be sitting inside a black hole at all. If you're right on top of a black hole, ftl speeds is highly likely needed to escape
Click to expand...
You are literally saying he was inside the event horizon
If he was inside the event horizon of a black hole, everything would be black (With the area directly “above him” possibly being visible)
Therefore he was not inside the event horizon
 
theultimate5105 said:
You are literally saying he was inside the event horizon
If he was inside the event horizon of a black hole, everything would be black (With the area directly “above him” possibly being visible)
Therefore he was not inside the event horizon
Click to expand...
Everything would be black
Click to expand...
Where are you getting this?
That's not what indicates being in an event horizon either.
And, as I've said already, for him to have even needed to accelerate like he did to escape the black hole, he was likely to have been within it already. The panels that were linked has him directly above the black hole, and extremely close at that
 
Violatas said:
Where are you getting this?
That's not what indicates being in an event horizon either.
And, as I've said already, for him to have even needed to accelerate like he did to escape the black hole, he was likely to have been within it already. The panels that were linked has him directly above the black hole, and extremely close at that
Click to expand...
Being above the black hole means he is not in the black hole
Inside the event horizon which you keep acting like he is would be obvious, with it being black all around as light would never go anywhere but the singularity
 
theultimate5105 said:
Being above the black hole means he is not in the black hole
Inside the event horizon which you keep acting like he is would be obvious, with it being black all around as light would never go anywhere but the singularity
Click to expand...
Being above the black hole means he is not in the black hole
Click to expand...
Cool. Already know that. Never said he was.
Being in an event horizon doesn't require you to be sitting deep inside a black hole, as I've already proven
 
Violatas said:
Cool. Already know that. Never said he was.
Being in an event horizon doesn't require you to be sitting deep inside a black hole, as I've already proven
Click to expand...
Yes it does. The event horizon is what people consider The black holes edge. You have not proved that they were in the event horizon, simply saying light cannot escape a black hole means nothing
 
theultimate5105 said:
Yes it does. The event horizon is what people consider The black holes edge. You have not proved that they were in the event horizon, simply saying light cannot escape a black hole means nothing
Click to expand...
Violatas said:
Wrong
"The basic structure of a black hole consists of a singularity hidden by an event horizon. Within the event horizon, the escape speed (vesc) exceeds the speed of the light (c) and an object is trapped forever. Outside the event horizon, vesc < c and the object is able to escape"

For the event horizon to literally have been as small as you're saying, Tsuna wouldn't have needed to have to move FTL to escape the black holes, and in the panel shown, he's literally on top of the black hole. Again, being inside an event horizon doesn't require you to be sitting inside a black hole at all. If you're right on top of a black hole, ftl speeds is highly likely needed to escape
Click to expand...
Yes I did.
And I'm really not getting where you're getting event horizons are only inside a black hole. They gravitational pull extends outside of it, with FTL speeds needed to escape the pull since light is already being sucked in at that point
 
Violatas said:
Yes I did.
And I'm really not getting where you're getting event horizons are only inside a black hole. They gravitational pull extends outside of it, with FTL speeds needed to escape the pull since light is already being sucked in at that point
Click to expand...
No FTL speeds are not required to escape said pull. The light only gets sucked inwards outside of the event horizon because the black hole bends its path towards it and since it is not going away from the black hole at light speed it is sucked in.
 
theultimate5105 said:
No FTL speeds are not required to escape said pull. The light only gets sucked inwards outside of the event horizon because the black hole bends its path towards it and since it is not going away from the black hole at light speed it is sucked in.
Click to expand...
To put this into perspective, black holes with solar mass less than 10% of our sun would have event horizons that extend for many meters.
That said, it should probs just be calced. I feel FTL is blatant but clearly the feat should be calced for speed. Don't see it getting under rela speeds.

YukaSama4 said:
Did any of you send the thread to a mod?
Click to expand...
I will now
 
I agree its ftl but we should definitely get the feat calced first
At least just about everyone is fine with the black holes being real, which would warrant speed and AP upgrades
 
Violatas said:
To put this into perspective, black holes with solar mass less than 10% of our sun would have event horizons that extend for many meters.
That said, it should probs just be calced. I feel FTL is blatant but clearly the feat should be calced for speed. Don't see it getting under rela speeds.
Click to expand...
Yes and you have zero proof its event horizon is that size.
 
Majinere566 said:
Done

Anyways i'm Neutral on Universal and MFTL+(probably would get rejected due to the nature of the site)

and i agree with the Black hole and FTL proposals


Shit i might need to calc another feat that happened in the future arc where kikyo reacted to security lasers and a recalc of zakuro's volcano feat
Click to expand...
are you good to vc today? I operate on eastern time zone
 
theultimate5105 said:
Yes and you have zero proof its event horizon is that size.
Click to expand...
event horizons depend on a variable of factors. We can't say for too certain on much about it. but regarding how photons work in fiction, that is they most likely travel faster than light which logically explains why characters can see even though they move ftl speeds, would be kind of one of those universal fictional rules such as ignoring Newton's third law
 
Violatas said:
Wrong
"The basic structure of a black hole consists of a singularity hidden by an event horizon. Within the event horizon, the escape speed (vesc) exceeds the speed of the light (c) and an object is trapped forever. Outside the event horizon, vesc < c and the object is able to escape"

For the event horizon to literally have been as small as you're saying, Tsuna wouldn't have needed to have to move FTL to escape the black holes, and in the panel shown, he's literally on top of the black hole. Again, being inside an event horizon doesn't require you to be sitting inside a black hole at all. If you're right on top of a black hole, ftl speeds is highly likely needed to escape
Click to expand...
honestly, people who argue for an event horizon requiring to be present either A, forget that artistic representation is a thing within manga and should not limit the fact that the intent was for the circles to be actual black holes without requiring the necessary details to represent it, or B, need to hyper focus on a point to try to debunk something as nothing else will serve to have a strong enough argument to even attempt to debunk. Thats where a lot of the appeal to reality fallacies come into play.
 
@Tetsuya1029 since most here are fine with the black holes being real, you can probs go ahead and try getting those evaluated
Only thing left is speed even though I've repeatedly said it'd just be best to get Tsuna escaping the pull calced
 
Violatas said:
@Tetsuya1029 since most here are fine with the black holes being real, you can probs go ahead and try getting those evaluated
Only thing left is speed even though I've repeatedly said it'd just be best to get Tsuna escaping the pull calced
Click to expand...
I don't know how to get those evaluated. I only ever come here looking for people to debate lol.
 
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