Kars/D4CU Revision

[PsychoWarper]

Kars' key with D4CU should have Type 3 Acausality since if Kars is hurt or killed D4CU will passively replace the damaged or dead Kars with another Kars from one of the infinite parallel universes, even if a parallel universe doesnt exist D4CU will simply make one to get a Kars from

D4CU description from profile

• D4C Ultimate: Short for Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap Ultimate, it is a blue-and-pink humanoid Stand with insanely large, curved ears. It uses melee attacks in conjunction with its ability. The reason why D4C's ability works so well is due to the concept of gravity.
  • Parallel Universe Creation: When D4C Ultimate travels through parallel universes, it is actually creating new universes with distinct timelines of its own similar to the "root" universe, or the universe that contains Singularities (one thing that only happens once in a universe). These parallel worlds are considered as "not real" and meaningless to the "root" universe, but still coexist alongside it once made.
  • Dimension Hopping: When D4C Ultimate and Kars are between two objects, Kars can hop between one of many parallel worlds created by D4C Ultimate. Anything can be used from doors, water, or even steam to travel to another world. Even if Kars has a partial amount of him able to travel, he will still be able to take his entire body with him. Kars can also take other people in these parallel worlds or move them to another one.
    • Merging: When Kars takes an individual and takes them to a parallel world, Kars can cause them to meet their parallel selves. If they make contact or get too close to each other, they will begin to crumble and pull each other into one another, creating a Menger Sponge, and completely obliterating each other from existence. This rule does not apply to Kars himself.
    • Body Hopping: Upon death, injury or when the user chooses, D4C Ultimate will transfer over to another Kars, the new Kars will essentially become old one via consciousness transfer.

 

[Junkoposter]

sounds good to me

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

If someone destroys D4CU, would another Kars still be replaced somehow? Or not?

 

[YungManzi]

I say "Limited Acausality Type 3" for EmpDoom's reasons.

 

[Genericstickman]

If someone destroys D4CU, would another Kars still be replaced somehow? Or not?

Bites the Dust would probably activate

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Sounds alright.

Can you post the quote from JORGE JOESTAR that justifies this?

 

[Junkoposter]

I say "Limited Acausality Type 3" for EmpDoom's reasons.

he was asking if thats how it works, he wasnt saying "thats how it works"

 

[PsychoWarper]

Im not a full Jojo expert but it might, ill wait to see what they say.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Sounds alright.
Can you post the quote from JORGE JOESTAR that justifies this?

Man im just going off what the profile says, I dont know if theres a quote on there for it.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

It seems that only D4CU itself has Acausality type 3, not Kars. Because you know...if D4CU is destroyed, who will bring another Kars to the fight?

 

[YungManzi]

Is that not how it works Junko? Or is it slghtly different in the novels?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Well D4CU would give Kars Type 3 Acausuality so it should be listed.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

So, if someone kills D4CU, Kars would lose his Acausality? It doesnt seem right...I think Limited Acausality would fit better imo

 

[PsychoWarper]

So, if someone kills D4CU, Kars would lose his Acausality? It doesnt seem right...I think Limited Acausality would fit better imo

Who are knowledgable people on JORGE JOESTAR? Or maybe even just JoJo?

We should probably contact them as they may know how it works.

 

[Standuser081]

Agree with this. I think it should be specified as a weakness that without D4CU, Kars cannot bring himself back.

 

[Ogbunabali]

If someone kills D4CU Kars just makes another one.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

If someone kills D4CU Kars just makes another one.

I mean, there are some characters out there who could kill Kars and D4CU at the same time, so it would still be a weakness.....kinda

 

[Ogbunabali]

The Acausality type 3 should be under the D4CU tab in his P&A either way. That way there's no need for there to be a note or something, because it's pretty self explanatory.

I don't mind if it's mentioned it's just redundant.

 

[PsychoWarper]

It could be listed as a weakness for the key.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Bump

 

[KaizukaZekrom]

Bump

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If he creates a universe, shouldn't he get non combat applicable Low 2-C?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask the staff and experienced active members listed in the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I can do it later or someone else could do it since im out atm.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ok so I asked a few people from the JoJo knowledgable list to come a comment here.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I think Acausality via D4CU makes sense

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Can someone remind me why Kars has BtD in the first place seeing as its apparently become an independent spirit helping him of its own will and should really count as a different character in that case?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

From what I understand its that the stand can choose its master, and it has become something like Cheap Trick that can move from master to master

 

[PsychoWarper]

This is not the thread for that dammit

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Again, why doesn't D4CU have non-combat applicable Low 2-C if it can make universes to pull Kars from?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Acausality via D4CU works for me too from the way it's written.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Again, why doesn't D4CU have non-combat applicable Low 2-C if it can make universes to pull Kars from?

It had it before but iirc it got removed in some revisions or something

 

[PsychoWarper]

Again, why doesn't D4CU have non-combat applicable Low 2-C if it can make universes to pull Kars from?

Cause people like to find anything JoJo related to downgrade ovo.

In all seriousness shouldnt the D4CU key also have Creation fornthe same reason?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Can someone remind me why Kars has BtD in the first place seeing as its apparently become an independent spirit helping him of its own will and should really count as a different character in that case?

Ok I'll actually answer this if this is true, and what Iap said is also true then wouldnt BtD be considered Equitment? And if hes shown to consistently possess and have BtD through out the series (after he got it of course) then it could simply be considered Standard Equipment.

(Although I dont see why Kars couldnt just copy its ability if it tried to leave)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

On a more relevant note.

Sorry psycho, as we discussed on discord

This is (probably) not acausality type 3.

First things first though because depending on the answer to my next question it might actually might be acausality:

I am told that present Kars survived Dio killing him in the past - was the reason he survived stated to be because of D4CU? Please provide scans.

 

[PsychoWarper]

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Isn't the logic behind Type 3's immunity of the past "My another self has different past than me so even if my past is changed, "I" won't be affected"? Well, D4C only exist in one universe and paradoxing D4C is enough to make it paradoxed so probably not.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Essentially, yes. Type 3 works not because you are immune to changes to the timeline, but because a version of you from a timeline that was never changed in the first place can replace you.

I'll just post my whole argument. Just know that if there's statements of D4CU being the reason Kars survived being killed in the past via it grabbing copies of him from another universe, then yes he has type 3. Otherwise, read on.

Types aren't separate powers, they are just the methods to achieve the power. That's why all types of Madness Manipulation still achieve make the target go insane, regardless of whether you're using Mind Manipulation, Poison Manipulation or just looking really weird to do it.

Thus Acausality, whether the user achieves it by being unbound from cause and effect (Type 5), operating on a different form of cause and effect (type 4), not having/being reliant on a past (Type 2), or just not being paradoxed for never-explained-reasons (type 1), needs to have the effect of you somehow still being around even if your past is altered. In type 3's case the "you" that is around is from another timeline that isn't altered and are effectively the same as the "you" that just got paradoxed.

That Kars apparently did survive being killed in the past muddies the water a bit, but until I get an explanation of how he did that (if there is any explanation), that would just be Acausality Type 1 Time Paradox Immunity.

If D4CU is not stated to be the reason he survived being killed in the past, then D4CU and Kar's Acausality Type 1 Time Paradox Immunity are separate things. And if they are separate, and Kars theoretically did not have Time Paradox Immunity and was killed in the past before he ever got D4CU, the D4CU in the present would cease to exist. It would not have any ability to replace original Kars with a new one from another timeline. Even if Kars was killed in the past after he got D4CU, and then D4CU replaced another Kars, the Kars in the present would still be affected by the change in the timeline. They would still have the memories of being killed, then being replaced by the alternate self. They might not be dead, but their present has still been changed by altering their past, even if said alterations are only a new set of memories.

Thus D4CU does not give type 3.