Kamen Rider Gaim Acausality 5

[Omazio2019]

This thread was held after the staffs have done their works with Acausality 5, though I have seen Acausality 5 being discussed again, so here it goes.

• In the previous thread, Destruction and Creation were treated as a fundamental aspect across the entire multiverse, an absolute fate and unchangeable law of the cosmos. They also, like a superior fate and law, affected the law of causality.

Scan

「ディケイド、今日がその日です。 世界は終わります」
その日、世界は終わりを告げた――だが、 それは誰も想像し得なかった形で。ファンガイアが、オルフェノクが、 魔化魍が――すべての怪物たちが現れる。ベつべつの世界どうしの浸食がはじまったのだ。 世界と世界をへだてる境界が崩れ、 因果律は意味を失った。

(「Decade, today is the day. The world is ending.」
On that day, the world ended――but in a way no one could have imagined. Fangires, Orphenochs, and Makamous――all kinds of monsters appeared. The erosion of separate worlds began. The boundary between worlds collapsed, and the law of causality become meaningless.)

• Now let us take a look at Zi-O worldview which related to causality

Scan

Spoiler

時間モノは、パラレルワールド概念を含みます。
ドラ○もんが、の○太を更生させるために未来から来るのは、「ドラ○もんのいなかった世界」から「ドラ○もんのいる世界」に来たのと同じこと。いわば、因果律によるパラレルワールド。
(Temporal objects include the parallel world concept.
Doraemon came from the future to rehabilitate Nobita from「the world where Doraemon does not exist」to「the world where Doraemon exists」. In other words, it is a parallel world based on the law of causality. )

「アナザー鎧武が存在せず、《始まりの男》が存在する歴史」と「アナザー鎧武が存在し、（歴史の変わった）葛葉紘汰がいる歴史」があり、それぞれ当日と３日後の描写がある、ということです。
(There is 「history in which another Gaim does not exist and《The Man of the Beginning》exists」and「history in which another Gaim exists and (history changed) Kota Kazuraba exists」, and each is described on that day and three days later.)

時間移動モノを扱う際、この二つの次元で起こりつつも因果の関係にある事象を説明する、という作業が最も厄介で面倒である。いやはや、誰がこんなことをやろうと言い出したのか。
(When dealing with time travel objects, the most troublesome and tedious task is to explain events that occur in these two dimensions but have a causality relationship. I wonder who came up with the idea of doing this.)

• Kouta as god doesn't affect by this paradox of Zi-O causality worlds

Scan

本来の歴史で神のような存在となり、宇宙へ旅立っていた紘汰は、その力で歴史改変に抗い、ソウゴを導こうとした。
(Kouta, who had become a god in his original history and traveled through universe, used his power to resist the alteration of history and tried to lead Sougo.)

• And those like Kouta who attained the Golden Fruit are completely detached from history, the material world, Destruction and Creation, the absolute fate and law that is superior to the law of causality.

Scan

Spoiler

“We’ll start by cutting straight to the chase. Kugai Kudou is an Overlord.”
Hearing the word “Overlord” put everyone at a loss for words. Ryouma continued from within the video.
“To be more accurate, he’s something resembling an Overlord. He lost his physical body in the initial Apple Lockseed experiment and became a being of pure energy. He’s no longer constrained by this material world. For that reason, he can appear in unexpected places and return from death many times over.”
As Mitsuzane listened to the explanation, he remembered Mai Takatsukasa.
Ryouma Sengoku had ended her life in his quest for the Golden Fruit. But after losing her body, she became the “Woman of the Beginning”, the one who observed and confirmed the final direction of the Golden Fruit.
As the Woman of the Beginning, she was no longer constrained by physical space, and was even able to travel through time. Did this mean Kugai was the same kind of being as her?

​

(Kamen Rider Gaim novel — Chapter 4 Part 2)​

​

Such a man should have overcome life and death itself.
He should have become a transcendent being free from physical bounds, integrated into the vast multiverse.
He had surpassed time, surpassed space—but because of that, such a man had no future.​

(Kamen Rider Gaim novel — Chapter 4 Part 6)​

So conclusion: Gaim and those scale to him (Saver, Ryugen, Zangetsu, etc...) will archive Acausality 5 due to completely detached from history, the material world, transcend Destruction and Creation-the absolute fate and law that is superior to the law of causality.

 

[Mafuuu]

Wait a minute, why is there a doraemon?

 

[Omazio2019]

It's mr Shirakura (producer of Kamen Rider) trying to explain how Zi-O's parallel world work

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

So in other word

Gaim was able to resist time jackwr taking away his history
But he still got affected by Zi-O himself
Tho shouldn't this also mean zi-o can affect Acausality 5 consider we saw gaim dissapear in the ep or is it because gaim just allow him to cease to exist ?

 

[Omazio2019]

May be Kouta let himself be erased as he has accomplished what he wants

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

So gaim bassicly have power to resist on the level Ohma zi-o History change

What about den-o tho the taro still remember that they are rider, the different is that they still lost their rider power tho LOL

 

[Omazio2019]

So gaim bassicly have power to resist on the level Ohma zi-o History change

What about den-o tho the taro still remember that they are rider, the different is that they still lost their rider power tho LOL

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

Really ? But i do remember the rider lose their memory in the series (kamen rider beast) tho those are because of another rider tho and some was able to still remember them(kamen ridee agito, blade),

 

[Omazio2019]

Really ? But i do remember the rider lose their memory in the series (kamen rider beast) and some was able to still remember them(kamen ridee agito, blade),

Those in first sentences with the power was taken in their first appearence year and the later was not

 

[the_doctor]

This thread was held after the staffs have done their works with Acausality 5, though I have seen Acausality 5 being discussed again, so here it goes.

• In the previous thread, Destruction and Creation were treated as a fundamental aspect across the entire multiverse, an absolute fate and unchangeable law of the cosmos. They also, like a superior fate and law, affected the law of causality.

Scan

• Now let us take a look at Zi-O worldview which related to causality

Scan

• Kouta as god doesn't affect by this paradox of Zi-O causality worlds

Scan

• And those like Kouta who attained the Golden Fruit are completely detached from history, the material world, Destruction and Creation, the absolute fate and law that is superior to the law of causality.

Scan

Spoiler

So conclusion: Gaim and those scale to him (Saver, Ryugen, Zangetsu, etc...) will archive Acausality 5 due to completely detached from history, the material world, transcend Destruction and Creation-the absolute fate and law that is superior to the law of causality.

Agree fr, this make sense and bump

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I agree fra

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[ImmortalDread]

I will give my input on this later but I feel it's acausality type 4.

 

[Omazio2019]

Bump

 

[the_doctor]

@Kezz just give your argue now.

 

[the_doctor]

BUMP

 

[Kezz]

@Kezz just give your argue now.

Mitik Glory 1K /Radiant

 

[the_doctor]

Mitik Glory 1K /Radiant

What wrong with u

 

[Omazio2019]

Bump

 

[the_doctor]

Bump

 

[Elizhaa]

Are anti-feats, for acausality type 5 like normal characters/humans or objects able to interact with them?

 

[Omazio2019]

Are anti-feats, for acausality type 5 like normal characters/humans or objects able to interact with them?

No, only those people who had evolved into the same state as him can interact him

 

[Omazio2019]

Bump

 

[Omazio2019]

bump

 

[the_doctor]

Bump

 

[the_doctor]

Bump, this make sense.

 

[Elizhaa]

No, only those people who had evolved into the same state as him can interact him

I guess the proposals seem fine; though, although they need more evaluating staffs' input.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think it should be noted that Overlord abilities have to be activated. This means he's only type 5 when he chooses to be. I'm not very sure how that will affect the validity of it.

 

[Fixxed]

Bruh if @Everything12 know about this, he will definitely destroy this thread due there are no some feats that they are cant be interact because of unbound by causality

 

[Omazio2019]

Bruh if @Everything12 know about this, he will definitely destroy this thread due there are no some feats that they are cant be interact because of unbound by causality

He has incorpereality feat due to unbound by material world, life and death (destruction and creation)—the absolute fate and law imposed upon all lifes and universes affecting law of causality.

 

[Maskofthedragon]

So this thread just completely ignores that Kouta got erased from time at the end of Zi-O episode 12, due to the altered timeline?

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

So this thread just completely ignores that Kouta got erased from time at the end of Zi-O episode 12, due to the altered timeline?

It got explained that he just let it happen actually

 

[Omazio2019]

So this thread just completely ignores that Kouta got erased from time at the end of Zi-O episode 12, due to the altered timeline?

No, he's erased because that what he want to, it has nothing to do with Sougo. And just to remember his power was taken by ridewatch which can take away 9-D power (while he is 8-D only), and not only the Another Ridewatch of Time Jacker take his power but also the Gaim ridewatch of Sougo team, he doesn't have much power left.

 

[Fixxed]

He has incorpereality feat due to unbound by material world, life and death (destruction and creation)—the absolute fate and law imposed upon all lifes and universes affecting law of causality.

I know what you mean, but if you look at aca 5 thread before this. There are many character rejected for aca 5 even if they are have feats of cant be interact and transcend law or concept of causality

 

[Omazio2019]

I know what you mean, but if you look at aca 5 thread before this. There are many character rejected for aca 5 even if they are have feats of cant be interact and transcend law or concept of causality

I know but i want to see if i'm luckier than the others before me. Let's see how far can i go want with this

 

[Fixxed]

I know but i want to see if i'm luckier than the others before me. Let's see how far can i go want with this

Yeah everything12 not active for few day, i think this will get accepted. I not have problem with this actually

 

[Omazio2019]

bump

 

[Omazio2019]

bump

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Omazio2019]

bump

 

[Omazio2019]

bump

 

[the_doctor]

Bump

 

[Omazio2019]

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.


Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

Though the character is completely Independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond it's feats.

Note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.

Can you elaborate on why Type 5 applies and not Type 4?

 

[Maskofthedragon]

No, he's erased because that what he want to, it has nothing to do with Sougo. And just to remember his power was taken by ridewatch which can take away 9-D power (while he is 8-D only), and not only the Another Ridewatch of Time Jacker take his power but also the Gaim ridewatch of Sougo team, he doesn't have much power left.

Why would he EVER choose that?

 

[Omazio2019]

Why would he EVER choose that?

Because he became god to seperate Helheim and Earth, and when the binding no longer exist, he decides to retired

 

[Omazio2019]

Can you elaborate on why Type 5 applies and not Type 4?

He transcends life-death, destruction-creation absolute fate/law that superior and affecting law of causality and thank to that he become untouchable or incorporeality or whatever it is.

 

[Firestorm808]

Below are several examples of Acausality (Type 5) currently on the wiki.

• https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...earchUID=40121f53-b970-4aa6-8557-db8b1bc70516
  • Acausality (Type 5. The nature of the Ultimate Void is different from any conceivable cosmos and is a changeless totality)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Gods from outside of the mortal plane are completely beyond linear time and reside in a state where all events are always happening simultaneously)
  • Acausality (Type 5; Exists outside of the causality system of the stories of the Extra-Universal Gods)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Exists as the very dimension of time, transcending the physical world and acting as the very reason for time's existence. Should be beyond any higher dimensions of time, which there can be an arbitrary amount of)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Exists outside the system of the heavenly records and space-time. It is imperceptible / incomprehensible even from the point of view of acausal beings such as the HRE, and is stated to be beyond fate, plot and causality itself.
  • Acausality (Type 5; Yahweh's plan is stated to have been an all-encompassing "scheme" which contains all of creation, with Destiny of the Endless having described events such as Michael's arrival at his home as all a part of this "scheme" and Destiny having been the source of cause and effect in Yahweh's cosmos. Lucifer specifically is described as having escaped his function from the scheme and as such the causality of it)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Became an existence which is no longer a part of the universe, with nobody being able to neither interact with nor remember her anymore, as she's now completely outside time, cause and effect, without any kind of connection to the world)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Exists completely outside of the chessboard and is unrestrained by the limitations of the Human Domain, including that of fate, time and causality)
  • Acausality (Type 5; Oblivion has existed before anything, and will exist after everything. Oblivion predates the Marvel Multiverse and its laws. Oblivion is also above the likes of The Living Tribunal, an entity who governs the cosmic entities.)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Exists outside the concept of Fate, Possibilities, Space-Time and Causality)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Having narrated itself into [non]existence alongside all possible combinations of characters, the "shell" of the Self-Reference ENGINE is in a state where it is always beginning to tell/is telling/has already told all stories simultaneously)
  • Acausality (Type 5. He is "unstuck in existence", unbound by the rules of Paradox Space, causality and canon which even the Horrorterrors are still part of)
  • Acausality (Type 5. Exists outside the nature of cause and effect)
  • Acausality (Type 5; When she became a deity, her human self vanished from history as if she never existed. Alovenus is a singularity whose birth had less of occurring than the birth of the universe itself. As a singularity, she is unbound by all laws, all laws and providence are contained within her)

Based on the above, it would seem that the OP is enough for Acausality (Type 5).

 

[Omazio2019]

Great, three staffs and majority of people agree so is it good to apply now, right?

 

[the_doctor]

Great, three staffs and majority of people agree so is it good to apply now, right?

Maybe.

 

[Reiner]

Great, three staffs and majority of people agree so is it good to apply now, right?

Yes

 

[Theglassman12]

@Firestorm808 some of those examples for type 5 Acausality likely aren’t valid anymore with the new standards, though there’d need to be a CRT for type 5 to evaluate which qualifies and what doesn’t

 

[Firestorm808]

@Firestorm808 some of those examples for type 5 Acausality likely aren’t valid anymore with the new standards, though there’d need to be a CRT for type 5 to evaluate which qualifies and what doesn’t

We'll put that on the list for our staff threads. Some Acausal Type 5 profiles didn't even have descriptions.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Firestorm808 Yeah it’s most likely from back when being 1-A by default gave you type 5 Acausality for a good chunk of those pages. Once I’m free I’ll try to make a CRT on Type 5 Acausality on who qualifies and who doesn’t

 

[Omazio2019]

@Firestorm808 Yeah it’s most likely from back when being 1-A by default gave you type 5 Acausality for a good chunk of those pages. Once I’m free I’ll try to make a CRT on Type 5 Acausality on who qualifies and who doesn’t

Since you're already here would you mind to give your opinion?

 

[Theglassman12]

Going off the newer standard this wouldn’t exactly qualify for type 5 Acausality. For the new standard you need to have an explicit statement that because you transcend cause and effect itself that you’re a completely unchangeable being. If you have something like transcending the world but it has no correlation whatsoever with you being unbounded by causality at all then it won’t count for type 5. The whole “he has no future” statement can be used for type 2 Acausality but that’s about it.

 

[Omazio2019]

Going off the newer standard this wouldn’t exactly qualify for type 5 Acausality. For the new standard you need to have an explicit statement that because you transcend cause and effect itself that you’re a completely unchangeable being. If you have something like transcending the world but it has no correlation whatsoever with you being unbounded by causality at all then it won’t count for type 5. The whole “he has no future” statement can be used for type 2 Acausality but that’s about it.

He transcends the material worlds and the duality of Destruction-Creation which is fundamental aspect, absolute fate/unchangeable law of multiverse that superior and affect law of causality, wouldn't that qualify for new standard Acausality 5?

 

[Theglassman12]

Not really, creation and destruction in of itself doesn’t have much to do with Causality. Affecting the law of causality means they’d have causality hax, nothing about them being beyond causality and becoming an unchangeable being because of you beyond causality, which is the new standard for type 5. Though I’d argue even in the old standard I’m not sure if this would really pass either. Like I said I’m seeing type 2 more than type 5.