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Kaguya and ETSB

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1.) Because she absorbed a large deal of it. It doesnt mean it was enough for any of what your saying she could do. Having more chakra than Naruto and Sasuke doesnt mean anything, and what? She was building that chakra to use the ETSB from the moment she entered her root dimension.

2.) That speculation on your part and it not going off doesnt change this. If there's nothing else to go on, we go off of the TSB limitation since it IS a TSB and thats literally the one thing we have for it. Nothing else. We cant use the not going off to suddenly determine if it has or doesnt have the same limits as a regular TSB. Being stronger =/= getting more range.

3.) Already proven by kakashis statement, otherwise using Kamui would be no problem. And it was. Plus, they were in her root dimension which connects to the other ones.

4.) Which is impossible because of above. She can't be out of radius because then she'd lose control of it destroying the whole dimension by being out of range. And she can't avoid the blast because more than this dimension was going to be destroyed.

No, the burden of proof isnt on me this time Rep. You're the one claiming the move doesnt have the same limitations as a regular TSB, so you need to prove it.
 
1) And she outright attempted the dimension hop mid-fight and only didn't do it due to how close Sasuke and Naruto were already.

2) Then bring up a statement to prove me wrong.

3) And we know Kaguya won't be affected because...

4) Prove it. What statement do you have to back up your argument?

The burden of proof is always on the one trying to make the change. This is basic debating. Don't try to put pressure on me when it's all on you.
 
This thread isn't going anywhere. The arguments for Kaguya's revisions are just as bad as me saying Vegeta became SSG to attain SSB, even though we've never seen him use the form or perform the SSG ritual. It's 100% guesswork.

Mfwzeno
 
And arguments against are also 100% guesswork. I really do not understand your points. This is Occam's Razor that you guys like to cite every time apart from when it goes against your narrative. Nothing suggests that she would escpae it.She is said to be functionally unkillable which means she must have the highest regen in the verse due to then even having molecular disintergration High regen makes the most sense for her.
 
"Arguments against it are also 100% guesswork"

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Etc.

These are just baseless theories.
 
Reppuzan said:
1) And she outright attempted the dimension hop mid-fight and only didn't do it due to how close Sasuke and Naruto were already.
2) Then bring up a statement to prove me wrong.

3) And we know Kaguya won't be affected because...

4) Prove it. What statement do you have to back up your argument?

The burden of proof is always on the one trying to make the change. This is basic debating. Don't try to put pressure on me when it's all on you.
Click to expand...
1. Yes she did because they were going to seal her it had zero to do with the ETSB.

2. No, you dont get to use burden of proof here, what we know is that 70 meters is the range limit of TSBs we were never told the ETSB has a bigger range limit just that it is a huge TSB so the burden of proof is on you to show that it works at more than 70 meters.

3. I dont get your point here.

4. We know this because all her dimensions are linked to her main one as giving by the fact that to access the rest of her dimensions Obito had to go to the main one here implying that the main one links the other dimensions together and so destroying the main one would get rid of the rest of them.

You say we are fishing for upgrades when we are simply making sense of things in the manga. The only thing I see in most of these threads are people trying their best to make sure Naruto does not get any upgrades no matter what kind of evidence is brought up.
 
Unite My Rice said:
"Arguments against it are also 100% guesswork"
Absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Etc.

These are just baseless theories.
Click to expand...
Sorry but we have brought evidence you guys just dont accept it. While it is not stated directly using Occams Razor and what we have been told in the manga is enough to draw a conclusion about a situation that is basic interpretation of evey piece of work ever. Also no claim here is extraordinary we are debating a fictional verse where massive powerups happened within the last 100-150 chapters.

Evidence we are given: She has regenerated from any wound. Directly implied by Kakashi that dimensional escape (withtin her worlds) does not work. She has been said to be functionally immortal. She has only absorb jutsus and not actually explosions as seen by Naruto's Rasengan explosions. All her dimensions are linked to the same one.
 
What we have is evidence, we do not have direct feats but we have specific statements about specific things that when tied together give us an answer. But people do not accept it because, well, it is Naruto. No upgrades allowed without us scrutinising it to hell and back and even then say no and we can keep it on the low-end lol.
 
@Reppuzan

Since this topic keeps popping up, do you have a suggestion for a new discussion rule?
 
Antvasima said:
@Reppuzan
Since this topic keeps popping up, do you have a suggestion for a new discussion rule?
Click to expand...
Yep, let it be banned so that we can never have to deal with it again, classic way to get rid of actual discussion on a topic.
 
As far as I understood, Reppuzan has countered your points, and is tired of dealing with these topics over and over.

Also, as I mentioned in another thread, you need to make an effort to be less confrontational while visiting this wiki.
 
I admit to having been too confrontational recently, my bad. But I disagree that he has countered my points. But merely waved them aside as "headcanon" despite it being implied as major plot points in the story.
 
I'm fine with banning the topic, but I also think there's room for discussion. It seems like we have two sides who aren't willing to budge at all. They both have logical arguements.


If we took Naruto statements at face value, we would've been had Mid-Godly regen, 4-B ETSB ect. So it's not good to always accept statements without context.

But on the other hand, everything that circulates around ETSB points to Kaguya somehow either nulling its effects on her body, tanking it, or regenerating from it.

Kaguya wouldn't just suicide bomb herself in this situation.

All in all, I sort of agree with both sides. The reason we even have this problem now is because ETSB never happened, so even when we have good reason to believe certain things based on statements and the context of the situation...It isn't really supported by any feats, which in turn created this entire arguement.


I suggest we hold out for now, Kaguya could come back or someone with Kaguya's powers could come back and display the full range of her abilities.
 
Okay. Perhaps we should wait a bit before applying a rule then.
 
@Antvasima

Thank you. Because for the moment I have to agree with Rock and the others. I am of course fine with banning this topic as long as we have actually have something that debunks the argument for Kaguya here. And so far, we have not seen that from the opposition.

With all due respect, Rocker is correct. The only thing preventing these changes from going through is "headcanon" and "speculation", which I still do not see how any of what I or what Rocker has said is.
 
@Kukui

Here's a question. If Kaguya's ETSB were somehow able to reach the normal ninja world, wouldn't that be counterproductive to her goals? She busy draining everyone of chakra at the moment, no?
 
We never said it was ever going to reach the ninja world. Also she did not need the ninja world anymore. All she needed was Naruto's(Asura) and Sasuke's(Indra) Chakra considering Naruto was able to power up the whole ninja alliace 3 times over without even losing a big amount of chakra. Their chakra really was not worth much.

Either way the ETSB was not reaching the ninja world, since it is not linked to her main dimension like the others were.
 
Then that disproves the idea that Kaguya can't escape sinc she can just dimension hop to the main ninja world after throwing again.

Of course, we never actually saw her use it, so speculating further is useless.
 
But it does not because as we have said at least 20 times Kakashi and co would folllow her if she did so, rendering her use of the ETSB moot. Also there is no evidence she can use crossworld ETSBs anyway. Considering TSBs are said to have a range of 70 meters and what would truly be head canon is saying that the ETSB is different to that despite basically being a huge TSB.

I dont know how many times I need to say these 2 things.

There is no more speculation we know she was going to tank it either by Regenerationn or pure durability (unlikely).
 
we had no problem upgrading cell Durability to tier 4 with 1 statement that he has enough power to blow away SS

that statement only support for his AP upgrade not Durability but we still upgrade his Durability no?

but we have problem with upgrading kaguya Durability for same reason


no offence but i call it double standards
 
I know it would be stated as outlier if we do that so regen is the only way. Also thing is in dragonball Ki amount is pretty much directly tied to durability anyway. So if he can blow away SS his durability is also probably SS.
 
But she never tanked it.

We don't know if she was going to tank it since the entire ETSB magically vanished.

Thinking otherwise is fanfiction.
 
But we know she was going to tank it.

Calling it fanfiction is just being dismissive.

We know what the ETSB is going to do and it has been confirmed by the databook.

We also know that she has no way to get away from it.

Through Occam's razor we can deduce that she is going to tank it. Please stop with the whole headcanon/fanfiction statement, it is really just getting annoying now. Really all is drives home is dismissing evidence by incredubility.
 
Cell never blew up the Solar System either and this is going by the canon that is the manga. We also have never seen him tank a Solar system destroying beam.
 
even more we didn't even knew how he was going to blow away SS without anyassumption

and same as kaguya we don't know if cell was going to tank it either
 
Not to mention the ETSB only disappeared after she got sealed.

The only fanfiction her is believing that the ETSB disappeared anytime before she got hit by the seals.

Believing she can tp escape despite several factors stopping that.

And believing she is not going to tank it despite there being no other way for her to escape it.
 
ill post a long reason a bit later, I'm at work currently but in short

Kaguya Prob didn't tank that attacks

It likely has to do with her Regen,

ill just say that for now.
 
All of this does seem more than a bit speculative, possible but speculative. I agree with Reppuzan about that.
 
.............

I dont know what else to say. How can it be speculative it is less speculative than Cell blowing up the solar system with a Kamehameha (how does that even work?).

@Shadow I change it to High regen and anyway Low-Godly is really not far fetched only Kaguya would have it and nothing has come even close to killing her. Including Hagoromo himself.
 
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