Kaguya and ETSB

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Most staff don't even know or care about Naruto. The powerscaling is not standard. And banning revision threads won't let users express their opinions about statistics that could be false and such, so I heavily disagree with any of that.

In any case, we should try and finish this soon. I guess we're waiting for Reppuzan.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am just concerned about the sheer rate of Naruto revision thread posts lately. They are turning rather unmanageable for the staff.

 

[Rocker1189]

Honestly it is mostly just adding general things for all ninja. Only this one is really specific.

 

[LordWhis]

This thread is still being discussed !

Unbelievable, so many of my threads get locked after a few posts for being far fetched but a thread arguing for low 2-c Kaguya is still going strong days after it was made. This seems downright unfair !

 

[Mindovin]

There is no Low 2-C Kaguya and nobody argue to make her that tier.

 

[LordWhis]

What is the argument then ? Because that is what it seems to be to me

 

[Rocker1189]

This thread is still being discussed !
Unbelievable, so many of my threads get locked after a few posts for being far fetched but a thread arguing for low 2-c Kaguya is still going strong days after it was made. This seems downright unfair !

Dude, at the very least try to read the thread before typing something that makes you look stupid.

 

[Rocker1189]

The current thing we seem to be settling on is:

At least Mid-High regen for Kaguya.

 

[LordWhis]

What's up with all the dimension busting ETSB stuff ?

 

[Rocker1189]

Because that is what was literally said in the manga and confirmed by the databook?

 

[Rocker1189]

You know the whole I would recreate this dimension anew?

 

[Golden_Void]

"Her body would be reduced to atoms if she tanks it without having the necessary durability because the TSB has be compared to the Jinton (said to be better actually) which dismantles things to a molecular level."

So how can you want her to have Regenerationn, if this begs the question of her being able to tank it or not? Regardless, base Naruto could kick a TSB from Madara so it shouldn't disintegrate her.

 

[Rocker1189]

The ETSB was clearly going to damage them though, if not there would be 0 point in her bringing it out. Remember that this is when she had decided that she was going to kill them. When I say tank it I simply mean a taking the explosion I dont mean her body being fine after it. Clearly the ETSB was quite above the TSBs considering unlike them it could be recreated, was going to end an entire dimension and more linked to it and was apparently going to hurts Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[Kepekley23]

In this thread: People purposedly misinterpreting what I said about dimensions in the previous thread in order to act as if I'm in the one to blame.

 

[Kepekley23]

About my opinion, I'll skim through this again. Because it seems like people took advantage of my temporary absence in order to push an assumption through. No offense.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Unite

"base Naruto could kick a TSB from Madara so it shouldn't disintegrate her. "

You are right,thats why they have a resistance to matter manipulation on that lvl,but they still can be damaged by TSBs,for example Naruto was able to leave a scar in Limbo Madara's body.ETSB is 5A while her durability is low5B.

We either accept her 5A dura(that will make all god tiers high end 5B or 5A) either give her regen.I am learning towards regen.Sage of six paths for example is a ghost that can amp Naruto and Sasuke to low5B,use some strong jutsus and travel between heaven and earth.It confirmes that he doesnt need a physical body.She isnt inferior.

 

[Golden_Void]

So what are you saying? The ETSB that she created from her own body would destroy her? Hmm

 

[Dzhindzholia]

She has resistance to matter manipulation,she isnt immune to it,also the AP of the jutsu is 5A or higher(since it is mentioned that ETSB can destroy and creat a new world and Kep calculated only the destruction) while her durability is only low5B.And as I already mentioned Naruto could damage Madara with TSBs when he used it as a stuff.Maby they are immune to TSB effects but it can still hit hard if you put enough strength.

 

[Omimi]

@Unite
"base Naruto could kick a TSB from Madara so it shouldn't disintegrate her. "

for example Naruto was able to leave a scar in Limbo Madara's body.ETSB is 5A while her durability is low5B.

'sasuke said 'six path sage chakra ca hurt Limbo Madara's body

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Omimi

That doesnt contradict what I said.He still hit Madara with TSB and only six paths users can hold them.

 

[Antvasima]

Couldn't she just have a high resistance to some of her own attacks?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think she was even hit. The ETSB came from her. She was at the epicenter of her own attack.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Kaguya can obviously not survive a 5-A explosion if she doesn't have equivalent durability. Resistance doesn't matter.

She didn't even use the ETSB...

 

[Kepekley23]

Both sides of this debate had shit-tier moments and misinterpreted plenty of statements, if you allow me to be frank. I ultimately agree with not scaling Kaguya to this, but I have quite a problem with some of Reppuzan's replies to this topic, which I will address in a while.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So should we close this thread and write a discussion rule to avoid wasting any more time on the subject?

 

[Mindovin]

She was outside still fighting against Naruto and Sasuke also around this time Kakashi used Kamui Raikiri technique.

 

[Antvasima]

Never mind. I read Kepekley's reply.

 

[Rocker1189]

Well yeah Kaguya is not scaling to anything. Because it is not like she can tank the ETSB however what she is doing is regenerating from being blown to bits.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Reppuzan

2) Then bring up a statement to prove me wrong.

That's not remotely how it works. While you are ultimately right in that Kaguya doesn't need to regenerate from the ETSB, that is not the way to debate this. Kukui was under the impression the ETSB is just a more powerful TSB, which is the standard assumption if nothing suggests otherwise. Even Team 7 was mainly concerned with the ETSB's size as opposed to its properties.

"Then bring a statement to prove me wrong" is a terrible counter to the argument. You're the one who would need to provide proof of the ETSB not having this limitation, which you failed to do. The burden of proof is on you, man.

@Everyone

Anyway, now that I got that one settled, there is a statement suggesting the ETSB does retain the 70m limit. Specifically Kakashi noting that he can't use Kamui on the ETSB because of its size, which implies the ETSB only counters Kamui via being extremely large as opposed to not having the same limitation.

Madara and Obito both had 10 TSBs since they controlled the Ten-Tails's power. So it makes sense that the ETSB, which has all of the chakra absorbed by the God Tree, is really just a far stronger TSB.

That doesn't mean Kaguya has to regenerate from it in order to survive, though. The ETSB doesn't expand instantly, and Kaguya would have the time to dimension-hop, since she'd just need to keep her distance.

 

[Rocker1189]

My issued with the "she can just hop out argument" as I have stated several times is that she would simply be followed by Kakashi and co. That is the main problem with it. It is how she was followed to that dimension in the first place. And yes ETSB is big it still does not stop it haveing the 70 meter limit I assume that as long as she is 70m away from and pert of the ETSB it functions fine. After that probably not.

But either way if she has the time to dimension hop so does Kakashi.

 

[Kepekley23]

My issued with the "she can just hop out argument" as I have statedseveral times is that she would simply be followed by Kakashi and co.

Except Kakashi implied he was not going to dimension-hop. He thought he couldn't do so.

And yes ETSB is big it still does not stop it haveing the 70 meter limit

Which is what I said.

 

[Rocker1189]

There is no reason to assume he can not, he did not say "I can not dimension hop", he said "Even if we dimension hop.." That implies that he knows how to and that he does nto think it would help.

Duly noted. But it means if she dimension hops then there is no point inthe ETSB it would just turn to dust. Wow I really read the second bit wrong my bad.

 

[Kepekley23]

There is no reason to assume he can not, he did not say "I can not dimension hop", he said "Even if we dimension hop.." That implies that he knows how to and that he does nto think it would help.

Which implies he thinks dimensional transportation wouldn't aid him and thus that means you have to prove he'd suddenly change his mind.

Also, I don't even know how the "Kakashi and co. would follow her" argument helps you guys. If they did, that wouldn't change the fact that's what she had in mind. A shitty backup plan is still a backup plan.

Duly noted. But it means if she dimension hops then there is no point inthe ETSB it would just turn to dust.

The ETSB doesn't expand instantly. She can just control it from a safe distance and dimension-hop at the last possible moment, which, given her earlier attempt, is far more likely than her having Regenerationn vastly above what Madara, someone who was continuosly approaching her, was capable of.

 

[Rocker1189]

It means that she would let them escape. Likt it mean the ETSB was literally for nothing. There would be no point. It is like saying hey I am betting everything on this one move but my ooponent would escpae upon me using this move. There is no way that she can let it hit them if she has to escape through dimension switching. Nothing makes him change his mind he knows he can not get out of her dimension without her first trying to go to another dimension by her portal, that is the only way they can follow her cross dimension.


I dont see Madara as having Regenerationn massively below hers either after all he got cucked before he could do anything else. He never sustained any actual injuries that put him down. He just does not have the same reasoning to have hihger regen than she does.

 

[LordWhis]

You know the whole I would recreate this dimension anew?

And yet you tore into me when I talked about the fact that you were asking for low 2-c Kaguya.


As for this whole Regenerationn debate, to regenerate from this she would have to be High Godly if it is as strong as you say it is.

 

[Kepekley23]

It means that she would let them escape. Likt it mean the ETSB was literally for nothing. There would be no point. It is like saying hey I am betting everything on this one move but my ooponent would escpae upon me using this move.

Except Kaguya was considering the usage of a dimension-hop earlier in the battle, which, according to you logic, would result in the exact same thing happening. Especially when you notice the fact she was going to open the portal right in front of them before being stopped by Sasuke. Kaguya isn't exactly clever.

I dont see Madara as having Regenerationn massively below hers either after all he got cucked before he could do anything else. He never sustained any actual injuries that put him down. He just does not have the same reasoning to have hihger regen than she does.

Madara had to put noticeable effort into regenerating his arm when it got blown up by Guy.

 

[Rocker1189]

And yet you tore into me when I talked about the fact that you were asking for low 2-c Kaguya.


As for this whole Regenerationn debate, to regenerate from this she would have to be High Godly if it is as strong as you say it is.

No offense but I really dont think you have any idea what you are talking about.

 

[Rocker1189]

Except Kaguya was considering the usage of a dimension-hop earlier in the battle, which, according to you logic, would result in the exact same thing happening. Especially when you notice the fact she was going to open the portal right in front of them before being stopped by Sasuke. Kaguya isn't exactly clever.

Madara had to put noticeable effort into regenerating his arm when it got blown up by Guy.

She was considering when she realized that she did not have the time for the ETSB to go off. The portal she was opening was to fire out an ashbone but got interupted by Kakashi using the Kamui. She may not be battle experienced or massively clever but she does know what to do when she needs to get the job done. When Black Zetsu said she needs to kill them she was the person that decided on using the ashbones and she used the opportunity of turning into a tailed beast not by choice to make the ETSB.

I dont know if Madara had to put effort into it. He was clearly in pain which is to be expected but his Regenerationn seemed pretty passive to me.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Obito regenerated from something worse like it was nothing, the Regenerationn is inconsistent.

Also, that is Pre Shinju Absorption Madara. He allowed Sasuke to slice him in half afterwards and was smiling.

 

[LordWhis]

@rocker: you are claiming that ETSB has the power to destroy the entire dimension on a space-time level.

If that is true then regenerating from that would make her high godly.