Kaguya and ETSB

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Of course to the former, im just saying it doesnt mean it would be Universal in size to result in universal feats.

Because again, this goes right back to the HTC stuff which we have long denied as a universe and still do. Kaguyas dimensions are in the same boat as that.

 

[Rocker1189]

HTC?

but yeah, I hope we get more info on her dimension when Sasuke's part comes up in Boruto.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hyperbolic Time Chamber, aka DB/DBS.

 

[Rocker1189]

Oh right, yeah.

 

[AstralKing7]

looking good

 

[Rocker1189]

Again how does this look:

5-A via ETSB and can destroy pocket dimensions using it.

Power and Abilities: Regenerationn (Low-Godly)

 

[Bluetrekking]

Where is Low-Godly coming from?

 

[Rocker1189]

By virtue of being able to survive the ETSB, she would need Low-Godly for that without messing up the scaling, also that is what she used to be.

 

[Bluetrekking]

High regen can regenerate from an ETSB so it should probably be High.

 

[Rocker1189]

I guess High can make sense. I am just not sure how the ETSB ending the time-space altogether works with it since that goes beyond destrying matter in the dimension.

 

[Reppuzan]

I still see absolutely nothing proving that Kaguya would have been magically erased by her own ETSB and that she would regenerate from it.

All I see here is headcanon.

 

[Rocker1189]

And there is no way she would escpae it or adsorb it that is also headcanon, regenerating is the most likely option considering she has been said to be immortal several times with no way for them to kill her and no way for her to die. Regenerating is the best option to go for.

Like the entire point of the final fight was to seal her since they had no way to kill her. If she could actually had anything beyond High Regenerationn then Onoki wuld have been seen as someone able to oneshot her.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Rocker

Where's the indication that she would be tanking it in the first place?

Feats > Headcanon.

Unless she shows it, I'm not letting this ever pass.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Rep, with all due respect, that argument has been pretty much debunked many times at this point.

There's literally no logical way Kaguya would have been able to escape the ETSB without it either failing to work or failing to kill T7.

 

[Rocker1189]

Yes and it is entirely your own headcanon that she was going to dimension tp out of it dont say someone is using headcanon while using headcanon yourself.

feats are indeed > headcanon

But statements become useful where there are no feats. And statements say she is entirely immortal, now to what extent we do not know. But what we do know i sthat either way she was taking an ETSB to the face just like everyone else. Other things we know is that you would need at least High regen to survive it or at least 5-A durability. Since 5-A durability is apparently an outlier the thing that makes the most sense is High regen.

 

[Rocker1189]

And Rep you know what else has no feats? Her using the ETSB while in another dimension. Or her absorbing an attack that has already gone off.

Indication that she would be tanking:

she is clearly not running away after its activation, if not the first thing she would have done is dimension swapped. What was the point in her staying there.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Rocker

She never threw it. If she did you'd have a point, but she didn't. She got punched and the whole damn thing vanished.

We don't know how she would have acted if she had actually used it, but she didn't.

 

[Golden_Void]

I agree with Repp. This is speculation to the highest degree. These Naruto upgrade attempts are getting wild.

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree with both Repp and Unite My Rice.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Rep

You do know that a TSB cannot be used outside of 70 meters from its user right? That alone proves its impossible for Kaguya to suddenly use it when outside of it and would be forced to stay in range, otherwise the whole thing would vanish upon use from a farther distance.

And even if you could argue she could use it outside the 70 meter limit, suggesting she can somehow go from that to using it from outside an entire dimension is absolutely ridiciulous and has no basis whatsoever.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

That's a TSB. Not an ETSB.

We also don't know how it would have acted because it was never used or if it would have actually encompassed the entire dimension.

 

[AstralKing7]

wait i dont believe ESTB can even work on kaguya tbh she scales from the destruction of the dimension well planet but not from the ESTB since they should be immune

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Which is literally the same thing outside of AP and size. There's no notable difference between a TSB and the ETSB outside of that and we can't assume otherwise.

Also, Kakashi blatently says that Kamuing out of the dimension would be useless so that would strongly imply the attacks effect would go beyond the dimension. Not to all her dimensions, but just outside the one she was targetting. Otherwise bfring out would have been 0 issues.

 

[YungManzi]

Maybe it simply wouldn't harm her?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

If thats the case, then it would mean her durability would need to be upgraded to 5-A to tank it.

It is either she has the durability to tank it or the regen to survive it. The argument in notion of her somehow escaping the attacks power and effects are incredibly miniscule at best with almost no basis.

 

[Reppuzan]

Not happening.

This entire thread is built on speculation upon speculation.

Until we get clarification that Kaguya would have tanked it, she's not getting any of her stats changed.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>Either

That said, if she doesn't get the durability. then she gets the regen. It's one or the other at this point.

Even if you want to argue both sides are speculation, one has a pletora of more evidence than the other side does to support their argument. Until something solid comes up, the idea of Kaguya being able to escape ETSB has absolutely no basis to hold it up.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

I'm not letting Kaguya get upgraded on baseless speculation.

She got punched, the ETSB vanished. We don't know how she would have reacted if she actually threw it. Unless the author provides clarification on that, her stats and her abilities are not going anywhere.

I'm sick and tired of dealing with this topic over and over.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

None of this is baseless when literally evidence after evidence implies or even proves escaping her attack is impossible and nothing has debunked it.

With all due respect, you can't just decide alone that her stats can't be upgraded if you don't even have an argument on why not besides speculation, which in itself has holes according to above.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Reppu. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we used assumptions similar to this with upgrading Cell, correct? Which is why he's 1 KF instead of baseline?

Granted, I agree with you, but still wanted to bring that up.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cal

FanOfRPGs also brought up an overwhelming number of statements, scans, and pictures to show the dozens of instances Solar System level was brought up.

This post has none of that.

@Kukui

ALL of this is baseless. We're making believe how Kaguya would have acted if she were in range of her ETSB when it was never actually successfully used. All we have from it are hype statements. Its actual properties and effects as an attack are completely unknown outside of whatever Black Zetsu spat, which are also entirely unsubstantiated by feats.

 

[YungManzi]

I would say it's one of three things.

1. It goes towards resistance to matter manipulation and possibly spatial manipualtion and reality warping (going off statements).

2. Mid-High regen, possibly Low-Godly to Mid-Godly if we wank a little and take statements about edo tensei literally.

3. Her durability. Making Kaguya 5-A in durability (IMO the least likely)

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Except that none of this is baseless though Rep. At least what was named.

1. She lacked the chakra to dimension hop from the attack for using up extradinary amounts of chakra for the technique prior to ESTB.

2. She couldnt dimension hop because that would make her unable to control the ESTB, which is the same as a TSB outside of AP and Size, which requires you to be literally within 70 meters. Even with the benefit of a doubt, using it from another dimension is definitely far out of range.

3. She wouldnt dimension hop because then she'd just be giving T7 a way to Kamui out.

4. Dimension hopping would be useless anyway since the destruction of the dimension would spread beyond it, hence Kakshi saying Kamui would be completely useless.

it doesnt matter whether the move was used or not to shut those points down because these points would still be set in stone whether she used it or not. I don't see how any of this points to her being able to escape as opposed to being unable to without anything to debunk them.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was more talking about it being well into 4-B than it being 4-B in general, but I'm probably untimtentionally derailing.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Repp

Cal meant the recent acceptance of my calculation that puts Cell at 1 KiloFOE, not baseline SS level. It was made with the assumption that Cell destroyed the solar system from Earth, which I think is a pretty safe one.

Edit: Ninjaed.

PS. 1 KiloFOE ain't even close to well into 4-B

 

[Reppuzan]

Welp, debunking time.

1) The lack of chakra argument is baseless since Zetsu outright says that she's spent the entire time draining chakra from everyone in the world. She was considering a dimension hop as Sasuke and Naruto approached her.

2) Where in the text was this stated? I don't recall Kaguya have the same limitations as other TSB users since she doesn't use TSBs in general.

3) Kakashi outright says that teleporting out wouldn't save them meaning that this point is baseless.

4) Still doesn't say she tanked it.

None of the things you're proposing ever happened. If they never happened, it's headcanon and it's not changing the profile.

I am seriously tempted just to close this thread since I worked through these exact same points a year ago.

 

[YungManzi]

TBH Kaguya had some pretty crazy statements, like Kakashi saying she can rewrite the world in an instant like genjutsu but real. She can even attack using the environement (which kind helps support that a bit).

I digress.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

1. Just because she was draining chakra from the world doesnt mean it was enough to dimension hop, and that chakra she absorbed was for the purpose of using ETSB, not escaping from the dimension and there's no proof she absorbed enough chakra to acomplish both acts, especially when all Zetsu said in that scan was that she had chakra that vastly went over Naruto and Sasuke's.

Also, your second scan also goes against you. Zetsu blatently said she wouldnt have enough time to go to another dimension as Naruto and Sasuke would just follow right after her, so she used it as a way to attack them instead to prevent being sealed, which failed. Also, this doesnt mean she was considering dimension-hopping, its just Zetsu confirming doing it at all would be pointless.

2. Except thats the thing. ETSB IS a TSB. Just bigger and much more powerful. Thats it. You need to prove it doesnt have the same limitation or else it does, being stronger doesnt mean its range suddenly increases. Especially to such ridiculous degrees like across dimensions.

3. Because the attack would go beyond the dimension. This literally enforces my point.

4. Okay? It still doesnt mean she couldnt escape it, so her only options are either tanking or regening.

 

[Reppuzan]

1) Zetsu outright states that she's overflowing with chakra at the moment. They literally attempted the Dimension Hop in the middle of the fight. You're outright lying at this point.

2) Except we don't know that since it never went off.

3) Proof of this?

4) Or... she could be outside of the blast radius. Or... she could have just not been hit at all. We can play the "What if" game all day long. Nothing is going to change.

You're the one trying to make the change, the burden of proof falls on you. Not me.

 

[YungManzi]

Why can't Kaguya just get reistance to her own TSB? That's the safest bet.