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JUJUTSU KAISEN SPEED DOWNGRADE CONT.
- Thread starter PrinceofPein
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Hakari doesn't affect anyone so he's out of the mix
The reality warping dude doesn't affect anyone either
It needs to be consistent feats done by people that are affected by this
The reality warping dude doesn't affect anyone either
It needs to be consistent feats done by people that are affected by this
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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- #323
Bump
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Earlier people mentioned Base Hakari vs Kashimo and still keeping up with him creates problems with scaling due to Naobito statements.
Imma just say some things.
1.) Base Hakari never fought Kashimo until the literal last punch of the fight. The Hakari that fought Kashimo in 187 was Domain Expansion amped Hakari. Gojo explained that characters get amped inside their Domains and Megumi vs Reggie showed that an underdeveloped domain can still boost you. So 187 Hakari is stronger/faster/more durable than base Hakari to an unquantifiable degree.
He does downscale from full power Base Kashimo as he was still able to barely swap hands with him and take some hits meant to kill without dying while most likely being nerfed by Kashimo’s CE trait as his output wasn’t as high as in Jackpot
2.) Naobito was only ‘Known as’ the fastest sorcerer besides Gojo, but that doesn’t mean he is. A.) He’s the head of the Zenin clan…a clan who hypes themselves up and thinks all others are below them. B.) Projection Sorcery combines speed and perception manipulation. Almost everyone who’s seen it notes that it’s not just pure speed, and upper mid/low high tier characters like Choso with amps and Maki normally can track Naoya’s movements with difficulty as it’s still perception manipulation even if you can see it. Whole point is it’s the illusion of being faster than you already are while actually being fast on top of that trips people up.
3.) Naoya and Naobito should be relative as Naobito wasn’t the fastest due to having better or faster Projection Sorcery but strategic movement and timing.
4.) The Narrator usually only tells us information that we’re currently aware of and not about things outside of that. Literal next arc we got people like Yuta who scares Naoya even in base, Hakari who’s stronger than Yuta, Ryu, Uro, Kashimo etc all scaling. Special Grade Sorcerers and people on that tier seem to be the exception to that rule. Gojo was the only one in that tier that fought in the actual JJK manga when the narrator statement was made. Yuta never appeared in the JJK manga yet, Hakari never appeared at all etc. Yuki never fought, Geto never fought as an adult, Kenjaku never fought for real etc
5.) Hakari is currently a top high tier or low god tier of the verse. You could argue that even Yuta and the Sendai Crew don’t scale to him. Kashimo, Gojo, Full Power Sukuna and possibly Yuta and the Sendai Crew scale, nobody else. Gege even made a slightly reference to how much he downgraded from the Hakari fight where ‘Infinite’ was the big hype to the Maki fight where Mach is considered a big deal and agrees with people thinking his scale of what’s impressive is inconsistent. It’s not concrete but supporting.
6.) Another little subtle consistency thing in the manga is that after Hakari dodged the first bolt to the head, Kashimo never tried to hit Hakari with a raw bolt again. The second time he staggered him by ripping his face off (And Hakari could still perceive and after it hit react to an attack from a powered up/faster Kashimo….whether the attack was faster or not is unknown…before his brain was destroyed), and expel the lightning. Idk if it would help but maybe someone could calc that with the timeframe that a lightning strike amp runs through a human body? And then the third time he hits Hakari who’s standing still from a blind spot that he never knew was coming. The whole point of that fight was then out adapting each other and things that worked previously not working going forward
I know it wasn’t brought up in a while but the Top/God tiers scaling isn't affected by Naoya and Naobito and capped at Vaguely Supersonic to Mach 3. Even teen Gojo after awakening outpaced Toji with movements/combat and blitzes him with attacks, and idk if that version of Gojo scales tk the high top/low god tiers
Imma just say some things.
1.) Base Hakari never fought Kashimo until the literal last punch of the fight. The Hakari that fought Kashimo in 187 was Domain Expansion amped Hakari. Gojo explained that characters get amped inside their Domains and Megumi vs Reggie showed that an underdeveloped domain can still boost you. So 187 Hakari is stronger/faster/more durable than base Hakari to an unquantifiable degree.
He does downscale from full power Base Kashimo as he was still able to barely swap hands with him and take some hits meant to kill without dying while most likely being nerfed by Kashimo’s CE trait as his output wasn’t as high as in Jackpot
2.) Naobito was only ‘Known as’ the fastest sorcerer besides Gojo, but that doesn’t mean he is. A.) He’s the head of the Zenin clan…a clan who hypes themselves up and thinks all others are below them. B.) Projection Sorcery combines speed and perception manipulation. Almost everyone who’s seen it notes that it’s not just pure speed, and upper mid/low high tier characters like Choso with amps and Maki normally can track Naoya’s movements with difficulty as it’s still perception manipulation even if you can see it. Whole point is it’s the illusion of being faster than you already are while actually being fast on top of that trips people up.
3.) Naoya and Naobito should be relative as Naobito wasn’t the fastest due to having better or faster Projection Sorcery but strategic movement and timing.
4.) The Narrator usually only tells us information that we’re currently aware of and not about things outside of that. Literal next arc we got people like Yuta who scares Naoya even in base, Hakari who’s stronger than Yuta, Ryu, Uro, Kashimo etc all scaling. Special Grade Sorcerers and people on that tier seem to be the exception to that rule. Gojo was the only one in that tier that fought in the actual JJK manga when the narrator statement was made. Yuta never appeared in the JJK manga yet, Hakari never appeared at all etc. Yuki never fought, Geto never fought as an adult, Kenjaku never fought for real etc
5.) Hakari is currently a top high tier or low god tier of the verse. You could argue that even Yuta and the Sendai Crew don’t scale to him. Kashimo, Gojo, Full Power Sukuna and possibly Yuta and the Sendai Crew scale, nobody else. Gege even made a slightly reference to how much he downgraded from the Hakari fight where ‘Infinite’ was the big hype to the Maki fight where Mach is considered a big deal and agrees with people thinking his scale of what’s impressive is inconsistent. It’s not concrete but supporting.
6.) Another little subtle consistency thing in the manga is that after Hakari dodged the first bolt to the head, Kashimo never tried to hit Hakari with a raw bolt again. The second time he staggered him by ripping his face off (And Hakari could still perceive and after it hit react to an attack from a powered up/faster Kashimo….whether the attack was faster or not is unknown…before his brain was destroyed), and expel the lightning. Idk if it would help but maybe someone could calc that with the timeframe that a lightning strike amp runs through a human body? And then the third time he hits Hakari who’s standing still from a blind spot that he never knew was coming. The whole point of that fight was then out adapting each other and things that worked previously not working going forward
I know it wasn’t brought up in a while but the Top/God tiers scaling isn't affected by Naoya and Naobito and capped at Vaguely Supersonic to Mach 3. Even teen Gojo after awakening outpaced Toji with movements/combat and blitzes him with attacks, and idk if that version of Gojo scales tk the high top/low god tiers
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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- #326
BUMP
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
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I can give a speed proposition later on more in line with the author statements at hand.
After that we could see to voting and/or go through any new arguments as we're still completely deadlocked for the moment.
- 5,666
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honestly i would like to ask we wait for the naoya fight to end
196 pretty much confirms maki has been mentally nerfed this entire fight, which has affected her overall physical abilities to some extent. only now is she at full "power"
196 pretty much confirms maki has been mentally nerfed this entire fight, which has affected her overall physical abilities to some extent. only now is she at full "power"
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Nothing has been addressed about the feat's consistency. Maki being peak human obviously is not something we are going with, and everyone and their mother having subsonic-supersonic+ feats means the sonic scaling via statements is inconsistent.
Also, mods from the last thread still need to vote.
Also, mods from the last thread still need to vote.
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Quite literally about 75% of the proof for supersonic JJK mid tiers has been destroyed as of now
Y’all need more feats
Y’all need more feats
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,081
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Won't affect mid tiers if she was nerfed, will just make Maki not an L
- 5,666
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could affect her reactions to Naoya's acceleration at least later on.
fights prob gonna conclude in 1-2 chapters
fights prob gonna conclude in 1-2 chapters
AdNiBN002
He/Him- 462
- 403
I mean if she shows some new feats against Naoya at Mach 3 then that can be handled accordingly but as for now her speed should just scale similarly due to her perfect preparation feats.
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well if she ends up reacting to full speed naoya, last chapter implied she wasnt fully on toji's level because of the mental nerf. As of this chapter she broke the nerf.
This is purely hypothetical but if shes meant to be = toji, and ends up reacting to full speed naoya, that would elevate both toji and sukuna and gojo as well
so only a few.
The mental nerf was implied back in 192 and made clear with this chapter and the last one.
This is purely hypothetical but if shes meant to be = toji, and ends up reacting to full speed naoya, that would elevate both toji and sukuna and gojo as well
so only a few.
The mental nerf was implied back in 192 and made clear with this chapter and the last one.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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- #339
Well, I actually don't mind waiting for the new chapters
Also the mental pressure does not mean she was already above naoya, but due to her not been able to concentrate she got slower, especially since she herself admits already that he is faster than her.
Also the mental pressure does not mean she was already above naoya, but due to her not been able to concentrate she got slower, especially since she herself admits already that he is faster than her.
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oh im not saying she was above naoya, just saying we might get to see how she does now against his acceleration with the mental nerf gone. Its implied it had physical impact to her, as was wondering why she couldnt swing like the samurai did and compared it to toji. This entire chapter that just released was about letting go of the mental nerf
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That was never the premise of this thread. You really fighting for mid tiers to be moved from mach 5-7 to mach 1?
This whole thing has been about others scaling to Maki’s feats and how a mach 3 gap is ridiculous.
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wait 1-2 weeks for maki fight to conclude. the biggest point of evidence for a downgrade comes from a concurrent fight that isn't even finished yet
plus we need back up calcs in case the downgrade goes through and list of who gets what new placement
plus we need back up calcs in case the downgrade goes through and list of who gets what new placement
Arkenis
They/Them- 17,081
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How does Maki's fight effect others if she barely scales to others?
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maki being compared to toji can affect toji, sukuna, and gojo at least
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i have no idea what the stance on that rn is
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Toji and Maki wouldn’t scale to the Hakari feat. Only Hakari, Kashimo, Gojo and Sukuna should scale concretely while the Sendai crew, Yuta, and Kenjaku should get an at least (whatever they scale to) possibly (scaling to Hakari) imo. I say possibly since Hakari scales above a hypothetical full power Yuta which includes Domain Expansion buffs
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PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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- #353
We are waiting for the match to conclude, then I guess maki would need a new key also depending on her speed after the match
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new chapter. Fan trans
Maki seems to react to mach 3 naoya several times and implies toji could as well
Maki seems to react to mach 3 naoya several times and implies toji could as well
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Next chapter: Maki dodges an Domain Expansion attack
Infinite speed Gg
Infinite speed Gg
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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- #358
It's aim-dodging as it was explained.
And he has not not reached mach 3, but rather trying to accelerate
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PrinceofPein
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