Jujutsu Kaisen Hax & Addition Thread

[Thebannanaworkshop]

what do we treat black flash as on this site?

i know that the 2^5 shit got dumstered for not being consistent at all.

so do we treat it as unqantifiable or...

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Just use Black Flash as "Far Higher", as there is no consistent value

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

Just use Black Flash as "Far Higher", as there is no consistent value

k so unquantifiably higher

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I mean, in the future the characters will become 8-A+. So we can turn Black Flash into something like "At least Low 7-C, likely Far Higher" in the future as a low-end

 

[Thebannanaworkshop]

I mean, in the future the characters will become 8-A+. So we can turn Black Flash into something like "At least Low 7-C, likely Far Higher" in the future as a low-end

was thinking about it because yuji went from not being able to harm ISB mahito at all. to digging his fist through his body and oneshotting with BF.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Anyway, that's AP and here it's about hax. So it's better to comment on this in the general discussion

Mahito needs deconstruction btw

 

[Outcast]

Spoiler

You are against that cursed energy equals cursed spirits, I want to know the reason when the verse goes against that. Megumi himself makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy when he explains about invulverability

• "It doesnt matter how strong you are... A curse can only be exorcised by another curse"

Spoiler

The verse makes said analogy because their extremely similar. I accept that. You could even argue the CE itself is invulnerable, I dont have a problem with that.

Here he makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy. Sorcerers destroy curses with cursed energy and not with literally another curse

It is a comparison. If Gege was only talking about curses it would make no sense for him to mention "and shamans". Both have the similarity, which is cursed energy; as we know, cursed energy goes through people's bodies when it is in small quantity

Agree with this

I am not saying that a shaman's physical body can walk through walls, but his abilities with cursed energy

Agree with this as well

This is because he is no longer dependent on negative energy by being in Itadori's body. In a human body positive energy is natural, while in a curse body it is not. The human body is not pure, it varies, it can have both negativity and positivity

I mean, i kinda agree on CE attacks being invulnerable. I only disagree with the notion that having CE around and inside you makes you invulnerable (limited or not) to non CE attacks.

But Sorcerers can create a protective aura with cursed energy, even Itadori can do this.

Sure. But again does not mean that makes them invulnerable to non CE attacks. The aura would help in defense, but it wont completely negate the force/energy of any non CE attack just because it itself is invulnerable.

A good exemple is in the fight between Gojo and Toji. After Gojo reinforced his body with cursed energy Toji was unable to hurt his body with a non-cursed weapon, who later managed to slaughter Gojo's body after bypass the Infinite and use a cursed weapo

The sword went through him tho. He reinforced his body, and that made him more durable. I dont think there was anything else. If Gojo did that and stood there trying to tank attacks from Tojis sword (Not the ISOH, the normal one) then hed get cut.

So you agree with limited invulverability?

For the CE only? Ig?
I mean I want to see what other people say as well, but for now I agree with the CE itself having a form of invulnerability as they compose cursed spirits.
I dont agree with sorcerers having invulnerability just because they have CE around and inside them. I think that if that were the case it would have been implied or stated more directly.

Basically, yes. If cursed weapons had the same effect as normal weapons against sorcerers it would be better if Toji didn't use any sorcerer weapons at all, so no one would notice his presence.

Well no, cursed weapons allow him to exorcise curses. Then there are special ones like ISOH which negate CT.
Either way Cursed weapons > Normal weapons simply because the CE reinforcing them would make them more durable and effective.

Toji couldn't hurt Gojo's body with a human weapon after he reinforced his body with cursed energy[/SPOILER

Addressed this above.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Spoiler

Sure. But again does not mean that makes them invulnerable to non CE attacks. The aura would help in defense, but it wont completely negate the force/energy of any non CE attack just because it itself is invulnerable.

The cursed energy aura creates a "shield".

The sword went through him tho

The sword went through the body because Gojo was not using the cursed energy. As we can see a chapter later, Toji was able to destroy Gojo's body when he used something cursed to attack

Well no, cursed weapons allow him to exorcise curses. Then there are special ones like ISOH which negate CT.

The cursed weapons allow you to fight with cursed energy users, they are made of cursed energy. Itadori got a cursed weapon precisely because he didn't know how to use cursed energy. Miwa uses cursed equipment to fight other sorcerers btw

Either way Cursed weapons > Normal weapons simply because the CE reinforcing them would make them more durable and effective.

Reinforcing a weapon makes it increase durability, not power. Power depends on the user

 

[Theendzero13]

None of that is a statement of cursed users being invulnerable to non-cursed based attacks when using cursed energy. Until we get something like that or feats, I'm not approving it.

Can you please comment here again?
We kinda in a loop right now

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

who are not mod could also give an opinion

So far only 3 people have shown their opinion

 

[KingTempest]

Disagree with empathic resistance.

Controlling your emotions just means that you don't get mad in situations when you're supposed to and similar things.

If someone comes and manipulates your emotions externally and supernaturally, would they still be able to control it?


Everything else is cool.

 

[Theendzero13]

So far it seems
Agree with limited invul: life, toa,nel
Disagree with limited invul: mal,outcast,duedate,white,tempest
Neutral: me

 

[Theendzero13]

Disagree with empathic resistance.

Controlling your emotions just means that you don't get mad in situations when you're supposed to and similar things.

If someone comes and manipulates your emotions externally and supernaturally, would they still be able to control it?


Everything else is cool.

Do you agree with sorcerers having limited invulnerability like life of king suggested?

 

[KingTempest]

Do you agree with sorcerers having limited invulnerability like life of king suggested?

I need more context.

Invulnerability means they don't get hurt at all.

They don't get hurt unless Cursed Energy is being used. Why is that? Is it ever verbatimly stated "they don't get hurt"?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I need more context.

Invulnerability means they don't get hurt at all.

They don't get hurt unless Cursed Energy is being used. Why is that? Is it ever verbatimly stated "they don't get hurt"?

They don't get hurt. Itadori in the specific scene was defeating a curse in physical matters, but later it was stated that everything was useless without cursed energy, as "Only a curse can exorcise a curse"

This is supported with Toji needing to switch from a normal weapon to a cursed one to kill a fodder curse

 

[Theendzero13]

I need more context.

Invulnerability means they don't get hurt at all.

They don't get hurt unless Cursed Energy is being used. Why is that? Is it ever verbatimly stated "they don't get hurt"?

Would it need to be objectvely stated, and can't be implied or assumed by following a certain logic?
Ps: anywhay life and outcast were/are having a debate on this ob this whole page and half of the latter one ,please read ,i posted the agreements and disagreements above as well

 

[KingTempest]

They don't get hurt. Itadori in the specific scene was defeating a curse in physical matters, but later it was stated that everything was useless without cursed energy, as "Only a curse can exorcise a curse"

This is supported with Toji needing to switch from a normal weapon to a cursed one to kill a fodder curse

That seems more like limited deathless immortality than invulnerability.

From what I see the curse was affected, but it can't actually die until something like that happens.

Would it need to be objectvely stated, and can't be implied or assumed by following a certain logic?

Yes, and even a statement isn't good enough most of the time

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

That seems more like limited deathless immortality than invulnerability.

How?

Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.

This is something that needs much more context than invulverability; Again, Itadori was defeating the curse, but at the end it was shown to be intact. This is not immortality, because she was not even really injured.

 

[Theendzero13]

That seems more like limited deathless immortality than invulnerability.

From what I see the curse was affected, but it can't actually die until something like that happens.

Yes, and even a statement isn't good enough most of the time

Can you please still read the debate though, just to get the full context before giving the veredict

 

[KingTempest]

How?

This is something that needs much more context than invulverability; Again, Itadori was defeating the curse, but at the end it was shown to be intact. This is not immortality, because she was not even really injured.

Didn't they say curses can be hurt by baseball bats, handguns, shotguns, tanks, and carpet bombs? All traditional weapons?

Invulnerability via "they can only get hurt by this" is heavily nlf territory.

Like I see where you're coming from and I can agree with the overarching concept, it's just that others might not agree.

Also, you might need more staff. My views on invulnerability shouldn't decide if this goes through or not.

Can you please still read the debate though, just to get the full context before giving the veredict

Alright, I'll skim through it.

 

[Theendzero13]

Didn't they say curses can be hurt by baseball bats, handguns, shotguns, tanks, and carpet bombs? All traditional weapons?

Invulnerability via "they can only get hurt by this" is heavily nlf territory.

Like I see where you're coming from and I can agree with the overarching concept, it's just that others might not agree.

Also, you might need more staff. My views on invulnerability shouldn't decide if this goes through or not.

Alright, I'll skim through it.

It is stated that if convencional weaponry were used/effectve( depend on translation i guess) against curses the weapons you cited would be what would be needed to kill them

 

[KingTempest]

It is stated that if convencional weaponry were used/effectve( depend on translation i guess) against curses the weapons you cited would be what would be needed to kill them

oh, nvm then


Yeah I guess I could agree, but get more staff

 

[Theendzero13]

oh, nvm then


Yeah I guess I could agree, but get more staff

That ain't the thing though, everyone agreed that curses are invulnerable , the debate is ether or not sorcerers should get it as well due to amping themselves with cursed energy
( which is the thing curses are made off)
That is the argument being have above

Ps: did you read the manga?

 

[KingTempest]

That ain't the thing though, everyone agreed that curses are invulnerable , the debate is ether or not sorcerers should get it as well due to amping themselves with cursed energy
( which is the thing curses are made off)
That is the argument being have above

Ohhh.

I'd disagree tbh. Being comprised of something and being surrounded/empowered by something can give completely different effects.

Unless it's stated that similar effects are given, then no

Ps: did you read the manga?

Read it, not caught up for a while tho

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Didn't they say curses can be hurt by baseball bats, handguns, shotguns, tanks, and carpet bombs? All traditional weapons?

This is to measure the power needed for a sorcerer to defeat a curse. Itadori from the beginning of the series was 8-C (Much stronger than a tank) and was not able to hurt curses weaker than him

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Being comprised of something and being surrounded/empowered by something can give completely different effects.

I propose the following justification:

https://vsbattles.com/goto/post?id=4326532

Where does the cursed energy come from?

• "The basis of cursed energy is negative emotion"
• "Cursed Energy comes from negative emotions"

Where does the curses come from?

• "The majority are the result of negative energy that flows out of people"
• "Cursed Spirit are a culmination of cursed energy leaked from humans"
• "Cursed are created when cursed energy leaks from humans"

Do they have any similarities in terms of feats?

• Gege says that a low-grade sorcerer has intangible cursed energy, just like as weak curses
• Megumi says: "It doesnt matter how strong you are... A curse can only be exorcised by another curse"; Here he makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy. Sorcerers destroy curses with cursed energy and not with literally another curse
• After Gojo reinforced his body with cursed energy Toji was unable to hurt his body with a normal weapon, which would be consistent with the invulverability of curses

I don't see how sorcerers who can reinforce their body with cursed energy can't have limited invulverability, even if it is obvious that they have a strong similarity with curses

Remembering, this isn't about physiology, it's about the general concept of cursed energy

Spoiler

You are against that cursed energy equals cursed spirits, I want to know the reason when the verse goes against that. Megumi himself makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy when he explains about invulverability

• "It doesnt matter how strong you are... A curse can only be exorcised by another curse"

Here he makes an analogy between curses and cursed energy. Sorcerers destroy curses with cursed energy and not with literally another curse

It is a comparison. If Gege was only talking about curses it would make no sense for him to mention "and shamans". Both have the similarity, which is cursed energy; as we know, cursed energy goes through people's bodies when it is in small quantity

I am not saying that a shaman's physical body can walk through walls, but his abilities with cursed energy

This is because he is no longer dependent on negative energy by being in Itadori's body. In a human body positive energy is natural, while in a curse body it is not. The human body is not pure, it varies, it can have both negativity and positivity

But Sorcerers can create a protective aura with cursed energy, even Itadori can do this.
A good exemple is in the fight between Gojo and Toji. After Gojo reinforced his body with cursed energy Toji was unable to hurt his body with a non-cursed weapon, who later managed to slaughter Gojo's body after bypass the Infinite and use a cursed weapon

So you agree with limited invulverability?

Basically, yes. If cursed weapons had the same effect as normal weapons against sorcerers it would be better if Toji didn't use any sorcerer weapons at all, so no one would notice his presence.

Toji couldn't hurt Gojo's body with a human weapon after he reinforced his body with cursed energy

EDIT: By note, reinforcing the body is not simply reinforcing the physical. Reinforcing a part of the body creates an aura of cursed energy (curse) that interacts with things

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Jujutsu shamans should get extrasensory perception for being able to see cursed energy and residuals.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I've already put that in my sandbox

 

[Duedate8898]

Can you please comment here again?
We kinda in a loop right now

My earlier disagreement with limited invulnerability for sorcerer's still stand.

 

[Outcast]

Dont see why invulnerability for curses is still being argued. We have a direct statement from Megumi "It does not matter how strong you are... Only a curse can exorcise another curse". Then theres Toji not being able to exorcise curses. You have one of the strongest people in the verse, and theres an ambiguous "he cannot exorcise curses without cursed tools".
Also, would this apply to Shikigami (Say megumis?). AFAIK, theyre like cursed spirits but im not sure.

 

[Outcast]

Spoiler

The cursed energy aura creates a "shield".

Spoiler

Spoiler

It does, but I dont agree with the shield making the user invulnerable.

The sword went through the body because Gojo was not using the cursed energy. As we can see a chapter later, Toji was able to destroy Gojo's body when he used something cursed to attack

This isnt stated IIRC . All Gojo says that he reinforces his body with CE so that the sword doesnt do any more damage.

The cursed weapons allow you to fight with cursed energy users, they are made of cursed energy. Itadori got a cursed weapon precisely because he didn't know how to use cursed energy. Miwa uses cursed equipment to fight other sorcerers btw

Agree, but they arent made of CE right? They are just reinforced with CE repeatedly, making CE a part of them.

Reinforcing a weapon makes it increase durability, not power. Power depends on the user

Thats specifically for Playful Cloud, not for all tools.

 

[Theendzero13]

Also, would this apply to Shikigami (Say megumis?). AFAIK, theyre like cursed spirits but im not sure.

It would at least aply to anything who is 100% made of CE, so shikigamis should get it yes

 

[Outcast]

It would at least aply to anything who is 100% made of CE, so shikigamis should get it yes

That would be nice, without energy equalization it would be hard to see them, and now without CE you cannot exorcise them.
OOOF imagine Mahoraga now..... Adapts to everything, but doesnt even need it now.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Okay, I'll cover other things besides invulverability

• Sorcerers at Nanami's Grade and above need Insitive Reaction. Cursed energy can protect the soul by pure instinct
• Gojo possibly needs limited density manipulation. He was able to increase the weight of the cube
  • In addition, Gojo was able to move in a place where time does not pass. Is this enough to resist the time stop?
• Sorcerers and curses possibly need resistance to Toge's abilities (Curses apparently are not able to block the attack)
• Gojo and Tengen need casuallity manipulation and fate manipulation It is impossible to kill them, fate will make Six Eyes beat Kanjaku in every case, even if Six Eyes wasn't even born (which literally ignores cause and effect).
  • Even if this seems incredible, it is useless in a match
• Toji (and possibly currently Maki) needs fate manipulation as well. He is able to break Gojo's fate

.

Could you give an explanation of Mahito's ability? He will now have conceptual manipulation so I believe the justification in the profiles should be changed

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Could you give an explanation of Mahito's ability? He will now have conceptual manipulation so I believe the justification in the profiles should be changed

Yeah at work right now I can explain more when I get home. Also awaiting my CRT to be finished so we can accurately determine what we’ll get but we will definitely be getting some form of concept or concept like info hax.

 

[Theendzero13]

• • In addition, Gojo was able to move in a place where time does not pass. Is this enough to resist the time stop?
• Sorcerers and curses possibly need resistance to Toge's abilities (Curses apparently are not able to block the attack

No, the "time does not pass statement" is very weird considering how the place is filled with decomposing corpses, like time does not pass but people and corpses age just fine?, the fact gojo also says "looks like" and events on the cube happening on the same time as real life events surely does not help

Toge not affecting them is a weakness of his abilities, as the effects of them can be blocked by covering your ears with CE, curses can't block it because they do not know that


Will wait for more opinions on the rest

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Spoiler

It does, but I dont agree with the shield making the user invulnerable.

So you agree that cursed energy is invulverable, but a shield made of cursed energy is not? What is the point to this reasoning?

This isnt stated IIRC . All Gojo says that he reinforces his body with CE so that the sword doesnt do any more damage.

An effect is shown that he has deactivated the defects and Toji's strategy was to catch Gojo when he was not afraid of something attacking. When he reactivated the defense with cursed energy Toji was not able to do anything else

but they arent made of CE right?

"Weapons in which curses dwell"

Not exactly specified.

Thats specifically for Playful Cloud, not for all tools.

The other weapons depend on the user's cursed energy

Toji has no cursed energy

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

No , i don't think anyone on the wiki has ever gotten resistence to time manipulation from existing on a place where time does not pass, hell even the t"ime does not pass statement" is very weird considering how the place is filled with decomposing corpses, like time does not pass but people and corpses age just fine?

I mean, in Toriko this is accepted for the same reason

Toge not affecting them is a weakness of his abilities, as the effects of them can be blocked by covering your ears with CE

They are protecting the body. The cursed energy protects the body from possible attacks, similar to when it protects the soul (In the case of the soul, it is limited).

Use cursed energy to protect yourself, starting from ear and moving to brain

This does not sound like a weakness

curses can't block it because they do not know that

Hanami fought for several minutes against Toge and he did not block any attacks. It's more like a natural resistance to curses

 

[Theendzero13]

I mean, in Toriko this is accepted for the same reason

They are protecting the body. The cursed energy protects the body from possible attacks, similar to when it protects the soul.

This does not sound like a weakness

Hanami fought for several minutes against Toge and he did not block any attacks. It's more like a natural resistance to curses

Don't know much about toriko but that verse has been kinda... dead for a while , anywhay we should probrably wait for more direct statements on the time part because right now it is whack

On the toge stuff for me it seend more like the CE that they put on their brains and ears block thr CE toge infuses in his words, but should ask other people

But about the curses resisting it , i do not remember hanami not being affected by them, homever it is stated that the more cursed energy the opponent has the more cursed speech take a tool on toge's body, so if it did not work on hanami is probrably because of that

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Toge’s ability works similar to bleach in that his hax can be mitigated or nullifies by a person having more cursed energy. Blocking the sound would be resistance to sound manipulation not the effects of cursed word manipulation.

But yes resistances to curses is a thing. This is highlighted in volume 0 with Yuta and Maki.