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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Emirp sumitpo said:
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When I tell everyone that Yuji actually did die in chapter 11 and the story has been a "dream" through the influence of curse energy since chapter 11 as chapter 11 was called a dream thus the beginning of Yuji's "dream". And Yuji's one dream was to help others and be surrounded by them when its his time to go. The realm Kenjaku visits everyone in is not a dream but a cursed realm, its an enchanted realm created by curse energy, the energy of existence that connects all destinies. We can see this through Tengen, Six Eyes and Kenjaku their destinies are synonymous with the world of curse energy, a cycle of endless cursing, something which Kenjaku wants to go beyond, to see more of human's potential.

If we consider Yuji's significance in all of this, he represents more than just the "Dreamer." Yuji embodies Kenjaku's ultimate goal; he has succeeded in creating something that surpasses human potential—a being who through curse energy, is able to accomplish the merging of dreams and reality, symbolically, Yuji has entered the "cursed realm" enchanting himself after "death", something only done through the soul, Yuji has done so through dreaming. And what does Kenjaku say to Yuki? "What I can create does not exceed the bounds of my own potential. The answer is always FLICKERING DARKLY in CHAOS." Who is always flickering darkly in the chaos? Yuji. He is an anomaly within this world, seemingly always able to land Black Flashes when he needs to through all the chaos. Kenjaku was too blinded by his desire that he hadn't realized he already succeeded long ago.

Now back to the dreams. Since this is about Kenjaku and Yuji, let's look at Kenjaku's attire: Kenjaku wears a kasaya, a robe for Buddhist monks, monks serve many purposes but particular to Kenjaku, Kenjaku is an abbot of curses, sorcerers, and non-sorcerers, he brings and leads past sorcerers to a new world, their version of paradise some would think, while delivering curses to their role in the world, and finally non sorcerers; we see his interaction with Yuji's friend, he is thanking her and leading her to all the other "dreamers" people who Kenjaku visited and led them outside the barrier from the enchanted realm. Kenjaku in a twisted way resembles and mirrors Yuji, while Yuji is meant to be one who leads all the sinful beings as I mentioned below ↓, Kenjaku's more focused on leading others where they choose knowingly or unknowingly: we see this with Mahito, where Mahito's true self was always human, he gave Mahito the opportunity to seek his true self in Yuji. With Choso, he gave Choso a chance to reconnect with his long lost brother, Yuji and become a human. And with Sukuna and Gojo, he granted them the first moment in their life an event where they could be their true self and not just the strongest as other's saw them.
Arkenis said:
Deconstruct the boundaries between reality and dreams and reverts it back to curse energy's origin, the soul, thus creating a peaceful death for evil beings and allowing them to reincarnate through the cycle of samsara, symbolizing Kṣitigarbha, a bodhisattva who helps others to achieve enlightenment. Within Yuji's domain, his dreams and the dreams of others are a culmination brought on by his influence in the timeline of curse energy through his connection, in a way Yuji has become the next Toji, destroying the sorcerer's (Sukuna) destiny and giving him a second chance at existence, not life. Yuji has also done this for Megumi who gave up on life, Yuji gave him a second chance at life.
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LIFE_OF_KING said:
Itadori saying "Its gonna be a piece of cake" before a mission in the same chapter with the title of "A dream's end" DEFINITELY means that some shit is gonna happen
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The whole story goes by. Yuji gains so much. Two techniques, efficient RCT, simple domain, his own domain expansion, friends who love and support him. Then he dies to a random ass curse user that no one knew about til 30 minutes ago
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
-Itadori dies to a random
-The curse user is not a random but someone we have already seen
-Kenjaku
-That one dream theory
-Its actually nothing relevant
-Something related to the clans and Mei Mei

All of the above probabilities are gonna be wrong somehow
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MFW Sukuna actually did open his domain in Yuji’s and everything since that point was just Yuji’s imagination of what he wanted his life to end with and the last half of the final chapter is Sukuna saying how to the end he was nothing but an annoying brat
 
I can't see anythig
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
MFW Sukuna actually did open his domain in Yuji’s and everything since that point was just Yuji’s imagination of what he wanted his life to end with and the last half of the final chapter is Sukuna saying how to the end he was nothing but an annoying brat
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Nah, we see bullshit about the lore of the clans, something that Itadori doesn't know. It wouldnt make sense
 
AbaddonTheDisappointment said:
Itadori learned three techniques, blood manip, shrine, and todo’s secret second technique, making up random sh*t that never happened
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cat-looking-at-you.gif
 
Arkenis said:
Well the story is too clear on Maki's physical prowess being higher than everyone else's. These short moments of "oh well look they can keep up with her here" aren't meant to be definitive showings of her overall speed.
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I don't see why not, although Maki doesn't have many of these showings to begin with outside of being comparable to Yuji (who also has a similar narrative of an exceptional physical form).
Arkenis said:
Sukuna's acknowledgement of her physical superiority and need to challenge it makes it out to be Maki's power is above others.
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Sure, that doesn't mean she's faster than Kenjaku though. Sukuna compares Maki's elevated physical form to the body of Yuji and jujutsu of Yuta, Higuruma, and Kashimo, no where would his statement implicate Kenjaku. 'The narrative' also includes the feats these characters have, scaling chains (if accurate and well founded) are a way of interpreting the narrative of a series.
Arkenis said:
Another thing we can look at is how Yuki calls Toji "truly superhuman" and how losing to him shouldn't make Geto feel bad. It's like tryna compete against Gojo in cursed energy control and you lose, no one barring Sukuna and Gojo can evenly compete with her.
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Yuki calls him superhuman in the sense of being an evolution of humanity, i.e. a form of human unbound by cursed energy which is a big theme of Toji (this theme of liberation), with the Geto that lost to Toji being a grade 1 and with a CT inherently poorly suited for heavenly restriction users so Yuki saying HE shouldn't feel bad for losing has no real narrative or scaling implications there.
Arkenis said:
Then her senses make her reaction and any attacks she decides on better than others since everything around her flows into her at a faster rate than others.
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Idk how helpful analytical prediction would be for a sneak attack.
 
Rosa said:
I don't see why not, although Maki doesn't have many of these showings to begin with outside of being comparable to Yuji (who also has a similar narrative of an exceptional physical form).
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At this point, you're being oblivious to the story's distinction in physical prowess. Yuji has that prowess through Kenjaku making him physically strong, Maki has it through HR, something Yuki described as making Toji truly superhuman and is an anomaly with sorcerers. And we aren't talking about showings, that's where the issue is with comparing some of these characters comes from. I'm not arguing that Maki's blitzing all of the high tiers, but trying to make Kenjaku relative to Maki is not something the story illustrates to us nor do we have statements to imply it.

Rosa said:
Yuki calls him superhuman in the sense of being an evolution of humanity, i.e. a form of human unbound by cursed energy which is a big theme of Toji (this theme of liberation), with the Geto that lost to Toji being a grade 1 and with a CT inherently poorly suited for heavenly restriction users so Yuki saying HE shouldn't feel bad for losing has no real narrative or scaling implications there.
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Now you're pulling this out of nothing. Yuki says this after explaining HR and how Toji's five senses are able to sense curses and has a body sharpened to resist curses. The statement is about Toji's superior body being better than theirs in all regards and we see this through Maki and Toji resisting ce attacks with no ce and her speed being higher than those with ce reinforcement and her strength being something Sukuna himself deems testing. Yuki never says he shouldn't feel bad, its an overall statement about sorcerers, and shit Gojo lost to him too, the pinnacle of sorcerers. Like yeah Toji and Maki theme is about liberation from ce and the society of sorcerers but its also just telling us Toji and Maki are superior to sorcerers in all regards, the only real exceptions are the literal exceptions within sorcerers, Sukuna and Gojo.

Rosa said:
Idk how helpful analytical prediction would be for a sneak attack.
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Yeah that's just a simplistic view of her senses. Reread the manga or something idk.
 
Arkenis said:
At this point, you're being oblivious to the story's distinction in physical prowess. Yuji has that prowess through Kenjaku making him physically strong, Maki has it through HR, something Yuki described as making Toji truly superhuman and is an anomaly with sorcerers. And we aren't talking about showings, that's where the issue is with comparing some of these characters comes from. I'm not arguing that Maki's blitzing all of the high tiers, but trying to make Kenjaku relative to Maki is not something the story illustrates to us nor do we have statements to imply it.
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No? You said we can't use showings of relativity between Maki and other characters because of her "overwhelming narrative", I said how she doesn't really have showings to begin with, and now you're trying to misconstrued that as me saying the narrative itself doesn't exist. I was very clear in my post, Maki is portrayed to physically be the superior amongst the heavy hitters, however Kenjaku isn't a heavy hitter. So please show where the connection is between Sukuna regarding Maki highly amongst the students and her being superior to Kenjaku, because all you've given is Yuki saying Toji was "superhuman" compared to grade 1, teenage Geto - which even that isn't entirely evident in their showings nor in Maki's feats during Shinjuku or during ch215.
Arkenis said:
Now you're pulling this out of nothing. Yuki says this after explaining HR and how Toji's five senses are able to sense curses and has a body sharpened to resist curses. The statement is about Toji's superior body being better than theirs in all regards and we see this through Maki and Toji resisting ce attacks with no ce and her speed being higher than those with ce reinforcement and her strength being something Sukuna himself deems testing. Yuki never says he shouldn't feel bad, its an overall statement about sorcerers, and shit Gojo lost to him too, the pinnacle of sorcerers. Like yeah Toji and Maki theme is about liberation from ce and the society of sorcerers but its also just telling us Toji and Maki are superior to sorcerers in all regards, the only real exceptions are the literal exceptions within sorcerers, Sukuna and Gojo.
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So you're just assuming a lot from very little. Yuki and Geto are having a conversation about the suffering caused by cursed energy and Yuki offers the solution of eradicating cursed energy with Toji being her case study, she goes on to explain how heavenly restriction functions and concludes that Toji is "truly superhuman". So, whilst she does note Toji's physical superiority over humans and is factoring that in, she isn't having a powerscaling conversation where she's going "yea this guy is above ALL sorcerers!" - idek where you're getting that from. Yuki's statement is a general claim, that his physique is superhuman, sorcerers can also make themselves superhuman.
Arkenis said:
Yeah that's just a simplistic view of her senses. Reread the manga or something idk.
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You could show otherwise, but you seem to just enjoy assuming random things from very little evidence.

So far you've admitted Maki lacks the feats to prove your claim that she'll reaction blitz Kenjaku, has statements directly contradicting your claim, and the best you can do to prove her "narrative" supports your claim is Toji being vaguely "superhuman" by Yuki's standards? But yea... "reread the manga or something" ig...
 
Rosa said:
No? You said we can't use showings of relativity between Maki and other characters because of her "overwhelming narrative", I said how she doesn't really have showings to begin with, and now you're trying to misconstrued that as me saying the narrative itself doesn't exist. I was very clear in my post, Maki is portrayed to physically be the superior amongst the heavy hitters, however Kenjaku isn't a heavy hitter. So please show where the connection is between Sukuna regarding Maki highly amongst the students and her being superior to Kenjaku, because all you've given is Yuki saying Toji was "superhuman" compared to grade 1, teenage Geto - which even that isn't entirely evident in their showings nor in Maki's feats during Shinjuku or during ch215.
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She does have showings. When did I misconstrue you?

I was very clear in my post, Maki is portrayed to physically be the superior amongst the heavy hitters, however Kenjaku isn't a heavy hitter. So please show where the connection is between Sukuna regarding Maki highly amongst the students and her being superior to Kenjaku, because all you've given is Yuki saying Toji was "superhuman" compared to grade 1, teenage Geto - which even that isn't entirely evident in their showings nor in Maki's feats during Shinjuku or during ch215.
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This is not the portrayal. Within the story itself, she's portrayed as the physically strongest, not just the students, not the heavy hitters, everyone is compared to Maki, its about sorcery itself. Sukuna doesn't regard Maki highly amongst the students, he regards her removal of sorcery as something exciting and seeing how good she is, he wants to challenge it. So there she's being recognized for her physical prowess, with it coming from the strongest in the verse. And I won't keep going in circles with you over the Yuki statement if you disagree with the clear meaning behind her words and want it to only apply to Geto then by all means.

Rosa said:
idek where you're getting that from. Yuki's statement is a general claim, that his physique is superhuman, sorcerers can also make themselves superhuman.
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She says he's "truly superhuman". Sorcerers are already superhuman, Toji is above their superhuman-ness.

Rosa said:
You could show otherwise, but you seem to just enjoy assuming random things from very little evidence.
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This is just dumb, sorry, but genuinely go read the manga to see that her senses aren't just analytical prediction. I don't need to provide every scan for you. You've read the manga and you seem to be knowledgeable so you know what I'm talking about when I say analytical prediction is a simplistic viewing of her senses.

Rosa said:
So far you've admitted Maki lacks the feats to prove your claim that she'll reaction blitz Kenjaku, has statements directly contradicting your claim, and the best you can do to prove her "narrative" supports your claim is Toji being vaguely "superhuman" by Yuki's standards? But yea... "reread the manga or something" ig...
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I never said she lacks feats. Kenjaku's the one who lacks feats and he's the one you need to be proving is above her. And yeah reread the manga. You, like many others seem to have glossed over the clear portrayal of what Maki is compared to other characters.

claim that she'll reaction blitz Kenjaku,
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My words:
Arkenis said:
I'm not arguing that Maki's blitzing all of the high tiers, but trying to make Kenjaku relative to Maki is not something the story illustrates to us nor do we have statements to imply it.
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Arkenis said:
Well the story is too clear on Maki's physical prowess being higher than everyone else's. These short moments of "oh well look they can keep up with her here" aren't meant to be definitive showings of her overall speed. Sukuna's acknowledgement of her physical superiority and need to challenge it makes it out to be Maki's power is above others. Inverse scaling is fine when the story isn't pushing a clear disparity in who's the faster or the strongest, so yeah we can scale Kenjaku to Kashimo, Hakari, Yuki, or whatever chain of scaling it might be but it doesn't trump the narrative for her being superior to others.
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I could care less if you think she does or doesn't blitz Kenjaku's reactions. My thing has been about her being superior to others in all regards and for Kenjaku specifically in speed. This is all about her fighting Kenjaku btw so with her senses added onto her speed, it would make attacking that much easier.
 
I'm about to go to sleep and I just wanted to say, reading JJK weekly has been an absolute blast and a big reason has been participating in this thread. Sharing the leaks, talking about theories, all the Gojo revival cope and all the times we've debated the exact same topics for pages on end, this thread has been my main place to talk about this series that I love so much and is the main reason I've stayed in this forum as a whole. So no matter what happens to JJK tommorow, whether the ending is shit, mid or peak, whether we get a part 2 or not...

gojo-accepts-his-death-in-jujutsu-kaisen.jpg
 
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