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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

BeTheWay1rst said:
Utahime boost is only up to 120% and Gojo firered a 200% HP.
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Gojo used signs and chants which boosts a technique to 120%. Utahime also performed chants and signs to boost her technique by 120%. So she's providing an even higher amp to output than normal. That amped version of her technique is what takes Hollow Purple to 200%.
 
Just a reminder. There are 3 different chants gojo does.
One is for Blue. The other Red and the final purple.
His chant of Red: Phase, Paramita, Pillars of Light. Chant for Blue: Phase, Twilight, Eyes of Wisdom (Prajna)
Purple: Nine Principles, Polarized Light, Crow and Shomyo Chant, The Rift between Within and Without.

For blue, we see him use that specific set of chant to bring a previous maximum blue output back to maximum output.
For Red, we see him use incantation to make it a proper red(?) or make it stronger than normal (over 100%)
^ Chapter 233 and 235

Btw. idk if im tripping or not but..
Gojo never used the incantation for blue and red in chapter 223 (200% purple moment)
He only used the incantation for purple. This is kinda odd.
While you can explain that he already can do maximum blue output by himself normally and thus there's no need for incantation, that's just the normal limit gojo has for himself.
Incantations are meant to further increase the output of X something more than normal. Same goes for red.
As for red. We've never seen a maximum output one. (Never said or stated throughout the entire series. We've seen 200% purple tho. But that one doesn't seem to be a maximum purple, so shrug)
 
That's because he's not making them separate in 223. Hollow Purple is its own techinque with its own chants. Plus Utahime adds her amp on top
 
Duedate8898 said:
That's because he's not making them separate in 223. Hollow Purple is its own techinque with its own chants.
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That doesn't really answer anything.
You use blue and red to combine it into purple. That's what makes it its own technique. It is always separate until you combine blue and red.
 
What I'm saying is that when he normally does Hollow Purple, Gojo doesn't actually manifest the blue and red. That's a process he's doing internally. So he normally shouldn't be able to do the chants for red and blue first because he's not actually doing either technique, hence why we don't ever see them manifest around Gojo or even in front of him whenever he performs Hollow Purple.

When I say Hollow Purple is a technique, I'm saying it is its own move separate from Red and Blue. It's not meant to just be a combination of the two. Gojo is able to perform the technique by combining red and blue already manifested, but that's not how the technique normally functions.

That's probably why he wouldn't be able to add their chants beforehand to further boost hollow purple. Not to mention, it doesn't seem like Gojo can direct the attack when he manifest red and blue separately before combining them.
 
Duedate8898 said:
What I'm saying is that when he normally does Hollow Purple, Gojo doesn't actually manifest the blue and red. That's a process he's doing internally. So he normally shouldn't be able to do the chants for red and blue first because he's not actually doing either technique, hence why we don't ever see them manifest around Gojo or even in front of him whenever he performs Hollow Purple.
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Dunno about the internal part there. He's still manifesting it. Doing it internally or not doesn't matter so I don't see the point.
We see blue and red manifest when he has his hands together in preparation against Hanami though. And it was around him.

Duedate8898 said:
When I say Hollow Purple is a technique, I'm saying it is its own move separate from Red and Blue. It's not meant to just be a combination of the two. Gojo is able to perform the technique by combining red and blue already manifested, but that's not how the technique normally functions.
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I mean it is a combination. But you're right about it becoming something else. The essence changes very much.


Duedate8898 said:
That's probably why he wouldn't be able to add their chants beforehand to further boost hollow purple. Not to mention, it doesn't seem like Gojo can direct the attack when he manifest red and blue separately before combining them.
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Well. This isn't necessarily true.

0052-013.png

0052-014.png

0075-013.png


The two circles thing is blue and red. Gojo does manifest blue and red. Idk if he can do it internally like you said, because Teen gojo seemingly does it by just stretching his hand forth without us seeing how it looked like more animatedly. Though the anime does show blue and red combining, as in them being manifested (though gojo wasn't there in that scene around it)
Anyways when I said "this isn't necessarily true" I meant that he can manifest blue and red outside, have them combine and still launch it as some sort of wave/ball just fine. It doesn't release out like a nuke.
Infact it has nothing to do with manifesting blue and red externally or internally. It's just a process of making the target technique be "unrestricted".
 
Btw I don't think Utahime amplified Gojo's own CE output but instead was amplifying the curtain to cloak something as massive as Gojo's maximum output.

The basis for this is that the entire scene is written in a way which is (a) supposed to demonstrate the gap in jujutsu mastery between Gojo (and by extension Sukuna) compared to everyone else and (b) be the representation of Gojo's title as the strongest and his efforts to reach Sukuna.

  • (a) is pretty evident; the chapter starts off saying that mastery over jujutsu is the mastery of subtraction - i.e. the more you can reduce from a technique, or inversely the more your incantations can amplify a technique, the better you are at jujutsu as that underpins everything else - and it then goes on to say that Utahime's entire CT relies upon this notion of subtraction which allows her to reach heights of 120% followed by saying that Gojo can, like Utahime, perform this same ritualistic process and bring his own CT up to 200%. This narration of what it means to have jujutsu mastery seems completely out of place if Gojo and Utahime are performing the same 120% amplification and further seems to have counter intuitive narrative implications if Gojo is simply like everyone else in the field which determines jujutsu mastery and further requires the aid of others just to be exceptional. Gojo throughout the narrative is regarded as exceptional, especially in his use of cursed energy via the six eyes, it seems odd that in a scene demonstrating specifically, and singling out, the mastery he has over cursed energy he'd be portrayed as simply like everyone else.

  • (b) is also fairly obvious; the scene also goes into great lengths to give this scene weight as to Gojo's title as the strongest. The narration states that the initial decisive strike will determine who is the challenger - i.e. the nature as to their respective titles of the strongest - yet Gojo is working with others to define his own title here? Gojo's entire theme relating to his strength has been his isolation, even in death this is stressed at how he was always isolated due to his strength and how his strength always misunderstood as pure egoism and selfishness by Nanami, yet in a scene narratively showcasing Gojo's title he's being aided by others? It all seems a little poorly done, narratively it's very vacuous.

Obviously though this can just be excused as "well maybe it's not that deep" or "maybe Gege just fumbled the scene, his message wasn't conveyed through it", but there's actual evidence within the source material which also suggests that Utahime's CT didn't apply to Gojo. Firstly, if you look at the TCB translation it says she amplifies "any sorcerers within range" which seems to necessitate Gojo's inclusion, but this is kind of misleading language as the raws never specify any plurality here, meaning it could just mean "sorcerer" as in one. Usually in these conversations that scan gets spammed so I'm just clarifying that outright.
  • 1. Sukuna states himself that Gojo's incantations somehow enable him to surpass 120% output. Sukuna experienced Utahime's CT first hand in Shibuya during the skirmish with Kenjaku (ch134 - 135) and also knew of Gojo's help, the entire reason why he was holding back was because he knew there were people in Gojo's corner and he was even aware that Gojo used some aid for the Hollow Purple given the barrier (even commenting that Gojo shouldn't be proud of an off-guard manoeuvre), and then later Sukuna experienced the power of Gojo's incantations for his red (with this Gojo even being amplified by a black flash). Therefore, if Gojo's output was below what it was when he used Hollow Purple, Sukuna would sense that and be able to immediately deduce he had assistance, even knowing the exact way in which he'd be able to do it, and yet he never does - simply stating that Gojo himself can bring his techniques beyond 120% and attributes it to a BV Gojo himself has made - heavily implying Gojo's incantations are consistently just beyond a 120% amp.

  • 2. The language and numerical values suggests it's Gojo; the narration never claims that Utahime and Gojo together brought the Hollow Purple to 200% but that Gojo, via performing the same ritual as Utahime, "brought" his technique up to 200%. This language could not mean much, could just be a cooler wording choice, but then you also notice the numerical values. Utahime amplifying Gojo's CT by 120%, then Gojo amplifying it by a further 120%, we get.... 200%? That's not very coherent, it should be 144%. Well, maybe the narration actually meant that Utahime was amplifying her own CT by 120%, and so the degree to which her own CT aids her allies is unknowable. So where x is the standard amplification of the CT, we get (x * 1.2) * 1.2 = 2, aka Utahime's CT amplifies people's output by 138.888888888.... It's definitely possible, but kind of an odd figure and overall odd interpretation imo. I'm not ruling it out, just saying it doesn't appear as probable here given the randomness of it.
So the interpretation that Utahime was amplifying Gojo, as opposed to Ijichii, doesn't have any evidence besides simply assuming she can target multiple targets and therefore is doing so, provides a reading of the scene which goes contrary to the narrative, seems disagreed upon by characters within the series, and also seems mathematically improbable.
 
Maybe I should be clearer. Even whilst Yuji is in control we know Sukuna experiences everything Yuji does, with Gege visually showing us he witnesses it as he happens alongside having immediate access to all of Yuji's memories intimately enough to theoretically impersonate him, we even see this in effect when he experienced Gojo's domain vicariously through Yuji, and Higuruma's domain, and about Yuta's connection with Rika (which we're even shown Sukuna reacting to inside Yuji as it's revealed), and how Todo fights, etc. During Shibuya, we also know that Utahime was utilising her CT, with Kenjaku even talking directly to Sukuna within Yuji during this. Further, Sukuna is also the same person who, just by witnessing a technique, can mimic it (within reason) which is how he beat Gojo. So how is it headcanon to say that Sukuna directly witnessing Utahime's CT would grant him information on what her CT can do?
 
Rosa said:
he saw it first hand in Shibuya lmfao
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armstrong-made.gif

Rosa said:
Maybe I should be clearer. Even whilst Yuji is in control we know Sukuna experiences everything Yuji does, with Gege visually showing us he witnesses it as he happens alongside having immediate access to all of Yuji's memories intimately enough to theoretically impersonate him, we even see this in effect when he experienced Gojo's domain vicariously through Yuji, and Higuruma's domain, and about Yuta's connection with Rika (which we're even shown Sukuna reacting to inside Yuji as it's revealed), and how Todo fights, etc. During Shibuya, we also know that Utahime was utilising her CT, with Kenjaku even talking directly to Sukuna within Yuji during this. Further, Sukuna is also the same person who, just by witnessing a technique, can mimic it (within reason) which is how he beat Gojo. So how is it headcanon to say that Sukuna directly witnessing Utahime's CT would grant him information on what her CT can do?
Click to expand...
Never once stated Utahime was able to activate her CT here.Yuki is the one who saved them.
 
Rutæhh said:
yea but when has yuji seen utahime's CT
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It's just Rosa is misinterpreting Momo's scan. She said they need to buy time until Utahime is ready, but it was never once stated that Utahime was able to activate her CT in that scenario.

Yuki saved them before that. Even Kenjaku was there and didn't notice anything. Saying Utahime had her CT activated and only Sukuna noticed it is crazy. Despite Kenny Jujutsu Knowledge is on par with Gojo and Sukuna if not Superior. Lol.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
It's just Rosa is misinterpreting Momo's scan. She said they need to buy time until Utahime is ready, but it was never once stated that Utahime was able to activate her CT in that scenario.

Yuki saved them before that. Even Kenjaku was there and didn't notice anything. Saying Utahime had her CT activated and only Sukuna noticed it is crazy. Despite Kenny Jujutsu Knowledge is on par with Gojo and Sukuna if not Superior. Lol.
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Utahime only needs to start dancing for it to activate, why do you think she just stood there standing still for basically an entire chapter? And I never said Sukuna is the only one, everyone likely noticed including Kenjaku.
 
Rosa said:
2. The language and numerical values suggests it's Gojo; the narration never claims that Utahime and Gojo together brought the Hollow Purple to 200% but that Gojo, via performing the same ritual as Utahime, "brought" his technique up to 200%. This language could not mean much, could just be a cooler wording choice, but then you also notice the numerical values. Utahime amplifying Gojo's CT by 120%, then Gojo amplifying it by a further 120%, we get.... 200%? That's not very coherent, it should be 144%. Well, maybe the narration actually meant that Utahime was amplifying her own CT by 120%, and so the degree to which her own CT aids her allies is unknowable. So where x is the standard amplification of the CT, we get (x * 1.2) * 1.2 = 2, aka Utahime's CT amplifies people's output by 138.888888888.... It's definitely possible, but kind of an odd figure and overall odd interpretation imo. I'm not ruling it out, just saying it doesn't appear as probable here given the randomness of it.
Click to expand...
Not here to agree or disagree with anyone, but couldn't the problem here be fixed by assuming the amps are additive and not multiplicative? The way I always interpreted the scene is that Utahime boosted Purple by 20% (to 120%) and Gojo buffed it by 80% to hit 200%. I haven't read the fan translations for the chapter, but the official translations don't state Hollow Purple is increased by 120%. But that the techniques are increased to 120%. I.e. just a 20% buff.

If I misinterpreted anything here, my apologies. That was just my 2 cents in regards to the scene.
 
Gokukid2005 said:
When the character that has been dead for a year is surprisingly still dead
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This realer than ever with the amount of people saying Gege's writing fell off because of Nobara's death "confirmation.
A lot of people say its ambiguous and I'm going to be brutally honest, the only way you can see it as ambiguous is if you're coping.
Its said countless times that she was dead but Nitta paused her wounds from getting worse.
Would she survive? Its not a yes but its also not a no. That's ambiguous.
The very next arc, Yuji asks Megumi if Nobara is alive and he can't even look him in the eye.
That's basically cut and dried.
Yuji was suicidal and gave up so Nitta tried giving him some hope to keep pushing alongside Todo's words.
Yuji is still suicidal after Shibuya and Megumi just gave him some words to motivate him once again.
If she was still in an ambiguous state, he'd say so.
The fact he didn't say anything and even had to look away is all the proof you need.
 
speaking of which is milly still working on that speed thread? iirc he said something abt working on one
 
LIGHTYW said:
why was this calc removed? Its considered outlier or what?
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Not sure. There have/are complaints that it's a huge outlier or that lightning wasn't as fast as actual lightning, it being closer to electricity. I didn't hear about it getting removed; just noticed the calc was missing from the JJK page and the profiles for those that scale so far.
 
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