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I want to say it could lead to tier 1, but I don't think it is. Better ask @Planck69
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(JTTW) Sun Wukong CRT
- Thread starter ActuallySpaceMan42
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- sun wukong (myth)
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- #282
Planck when you get the chance input would be appreciated.
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If you can post the scans for the universe being a world in this context then 2-B is possible.
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If that's the case and if it was, If we include the statement where duality is boundlessly above it, would it be enough for tier 1?
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- #285
Sun Wukong is born from Chaos which was the formless combination of Heaven And Earth.
The stone he existed in was there since the creation of The World.
Born from the stone on top of Flower Fruit Mountain but existed before then.
Pangu had Heaven And Earth copulate to create the Universe.
Even Flower-Fruit Mountain came into existence AFTER the world was born.
So when the Earth was created.
The Ginseng Fruit like Sun Wukong was nourished by Heaven and Earth, coming into existence at the dawn of creation.
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OK. Though could you post the full context of the chiliocosm feat and how it scales to the Buddha. I have no doubt that it somehow does but its best to have the actual proof for a profile (And I'd suggest contacting an experienced member to help put with formatting as the blog needs serious work in that regard).
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It's mentioned in the whole Dharma, Duality thing. It would scale to the Buddha either through them holding the Universe in their palm (Including every grain of sand.), or Dharma Subjective Reality, where even the chiliocosm exists because it's of the Dharma.
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That's a lot of worlds.
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Seven Hundred Sextillion Universes and that's under the assumption the amount of sand in JTTW is the same as on earth.
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Yeah, but the earth in JTTW is much bigger than it's IRL counterpart.
Udlmaster
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The Chiliocosm or Thousand-fold world system, is a part of the Mahayana Buddhist cosmology.
Functionally, there is no end to the Trichiliocosm, there is this insane description where Deva all try to run from one the Axis Mundai to the end of the Cardinal directions running at a thousand Trichiliocosm per second (Trichiliocosm, Billion-fold World system) would never reach the end of the Cosmos.
Chiliocosm is the first tier, a thousand Chiliocosms makes a Duochiliocosm, and then a thousand Duochiliocosm makes up a Trichiliocosm.
Yes, the story is a mixture between Daoist and Buddhist cosmologies, and the Earth and Heavens both are made by Yin and Yang, and their separation.
This is expounding Buddhist belief in Anatta. That there is no form or shape, these are all a part of dependent arising.
There is no coming or going, substance or being. There is no soul or mind, these are all things which arise, grow, decay and die.
The Dharmakaya part is not talking about the Dharma. The Dharmakaya, or Truth Body, is the True body of all Buddha, the Primal Buddha or Adi Buddha which they all are.
Depending on the story, it can be Vairocana or someone else.
Either way, the Dharmakaya is a "body", it's the highest form of the Buddhas, a part of the Trikaya. If this sentence is talking about the Buddha, then it's talking about how his Truth Body is unmanifest, without form or shape and completely free from phenomena.
It's much much bigger. Mount Sumeru, the Axis Mundai of the World is large enough to have both the Sun and Moon orbit it.
PS. Sakyamuni is an alternative name for the Buddha. It means Sage of the Sakya. And Parinamana is Parninirvana, or "Nirvana after Death", which is not what it says on the tin.
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Too many Universes oof. But ey Sun Wukong Tier 2-B neat.
I'll have to ask someone to reorganize the blog tommorow though. Cause it is messy as all hell.
I'll have to ask someone to reorganize the blog tommorow though. Cause it is messy as all hell.
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You might also need to add the many things that makes Buddhahood wukong almost impossible to kill in his durability section.
Udlmaster
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It's not a 2-B statement, it's a 2-A statement, the Trichiliocosm is infinite.
Furthermore, stuff like the Pure Lands are Post-Nirvana lands. They're lands for people who have achieved Nirvana.
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I mean he's already pretty unkillable. He has Transduality Type 2, NEP Type 2 and 3, AE Type 1, Immortality Type 9, and Invulnerability (Being beyond destruction and annihilation.)
Also, his level of Omniscience is ridiculous. The Great Way encompasses the Universe, which is further encompassed by the Dharma, which is further apart of the Dharmakaya
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Could this be used? Or do you think this is a bit too vague?
This is a part of the Dharma so it should be true.
Monks on the road to Nirvana have all Casual Relations (Cause and Effect) Removed.
All Reality and all things are just emptiness.
Existing in the Realm of No Birth. (Nirvana I'm pretty sure.)
Free from all attachments to the Three Realms, which would be everything in the Universe.
This could further be supported with this I think.
A Buddha acknowledges the unreality of things. Which if I did my research correctly is the Dharma Realms (Everything in the Universe). Basically reinforcing what that first one said.
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So that would Acausality Type 5 confirmed.
And with this statement that Monks on the road to Buddhism will transcend the world/Universe. And those other two.
Potential transcendence over a Low 2-C Space-Time?
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Yes, especially when they also transcended the boundless duality.
Udlmaster
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This is referring to Anatta again.
When it says "Monk", it refers to the Sangha, Buddhist Monastic order.
So, to make it more plain, it's saying:
"For a Buddhist monk, all desire has been extinguished; for he understands the truth, that all things are Anatta (Empty, Unreality)."
The Realm of No Birth could be two things.
It could be referring to the Non-Returners, people who have cultivated so much Merit and achieved the Formless Jhanas that they reach a part of Samsara where they will not fall from, people who have reached those realms won't reincarnate into a lower world like the Petra loka or the Animal loka nor the Nakaras.
Or alternatively, it's again referring to the Pure-Lands, saying they've gone beyond arising entirely, and achieved the delights of the Pure-lands.
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They probably are referring to the pure-lands then. The Three Realms include the formless ones.
Even so, we can scale a Buddha off of this.
It would just be verbal since there's no in novel proof of them being infinitely beyond such monks.
But it should be Low 1-C since they transcend a Low 2-C Multiversal Structure.
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You meant 4D structure to be exact. But we need @Planck69 's confirmation
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Ya 4D, but your right of this is based on scaling, well see what Planck says.
Udlmaster
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Well, not entirely.
Even in the book, Nirvana is described as being totally transcendent, formless, and utterly beyond, right?
But, in each grain of sand, there is a Pure-land.
And that would repeat ad-infinitum.
Again, as it's describing something from another sutra which does the exact same thing.
I don't believe this is a 2-A cosmology, but rather a 1-B Cosmology.
Even in the book, Nirvana is described as being totally transcendent, formless, and utterly beyond, right?
But, in each grain of sand, there is a Pure-land.
And that would repeat ad-infinitum.
Again, as it's describing something from another sutra which does the exact same thing.
I don't believe this is a 2-A cosmology, but rather a 1-B Cosmology.
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Udlmaster
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Yeah, going by what it describes, it keep describing an Infinite recursion of Pure-Lands.
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Damn.
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Wasn't Sun Wukong's profile removed from this wiki?
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Due to major issues with the profile but now it seems that this is as close as it gets.
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How exactly does that work I'm not seeing a recursion loop.
Udlmaster
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Each Sand particle contains a Pure-Land, a Pure-land is one of the Nirvana lands.
Each Pure-Land itself contains more grains of sand, each then contains more Pure-Lands in infinite recursion.
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Ah, I see. And each Pure-Land contains worlds/Universes as there is sand in the gange river. Infinite Recursion with potentially millions of Universes on each level. Not going to fight over the whole gange river meaning infinite thing.
That is a potentially 1-B Cosmology.
The only reason it wouldn't be is if they want to be cynical. "You can't prove each Pure-Land has a grain of sand in it..."
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Went a bit crazy, got from 2-B to potentially 1-B, need your input on it.
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Shouldn't it be each particle having a pure land instead of specifically a grain of sand?
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Ya. So the loop is
JTTW Universe > Sand Particle with a Pure Land and a Thousand Universes > Those Universes have Sand Particles and those Pure Land's having Sand Particles and Billions of Universes from the Gange River Statement > And then the Infinite Loop gets even bigger.
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How much of this is actually in the book and how much of it is supplementary material from outside it is what I have to ask. I can see drawing clarification for certain terms here and there but when it makes the source material change tiers massively is where I draw the line.
I can't speak for others but if the choice is using non-source material to massively upgrade a verse (no matter how much insistence is put on them being tied together) and not having it on the wiki, I'd rather it not be here.
I can't speak for others but if the choice is using non-source material to massively upgrade a verse (no matter how much insistence is put on them being tied together) and not having it on the wiki, I'd rather it not be here.
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No, it's from the book. We did not bring up any outside sources or Buddhist sutras to fuel the fire. We really didn't. Check the previous comments for clarification.
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I'll go over it real quick.
Our logic is here it is monks on the way to being Buddha's are unbounded from the Three Realms and sees all reality as void. (Three Realms are the Universe/World, plain and simple.)
Buddha sees things in general as unreality. (Even without clarification of "things" being The Universe/World, it's a pretty clear stand-alone statement.)
And lastly, beings from realms below the Buddha transcend the World/Universe. (These three combined should be a fair reason for Low 1-C)
Each Pure-Land has as many Worlds/Universes as it as sand in a river.
Each grain of sand has a Pure Land and Thousand Universes.
Even if there is only one particle of sand in both Pure Lands and a thousand Universes, it creates an Infinite descending loop. Which would be 1-B if I'm not mistaken.
Udlmaster
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I'm mostly bringing up definitions of what things are, like the Thousand-fold Universe, or the Trikaya Dharmakaya.
Since these things are not well known outside of someone who's read some Buddhist sutra and has at least some background info on Daoism and Buddhism.
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