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(JTTW) Sun Wukong CRT

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Greatsage13th said:
Yep, also, you should just do High Hyperversal, likely Outerversal instead of High Hyperversal | Outerversal
Click to expand...
Gotcha, so the Yin-Yang gives boundless substance and function to all dualities through the High 1-B Structure.
And The Great Way encompasses the Universe and causes for the Universe to be filled. Which would link it to the sand statement.
Then the Dharma encompasses that, surpassing the Yin-Yang and having the Highest Authority and Power, being boundless.
And then The True Form of the Buddha, encompassing even The Dharma.
And then Nirvana which is endless contains the True Form of the Buddha.
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Gotcha, so the Yin-Yang gives boundless substance and function to all dualities through the High 1-B Structure.
And The Great Way encompasses the Universe and causes for the Universe to be filled. Which would link it to the sand statement.
Then the Dharma encompasses that, surpassing the Yin-Yang and having the Highest Authority and Power, being boundless.
And then The True Form of the Buddha, encompassing even The Dharma.
And then Nirvana which is endless contains the True Form of the Buddha.
Click to expand...
Would Nirvana be 1A or 1A+ or higher than that?
 
Greatsage13th said:
Would Nirvana be 1A or 1A+ or higher than that?
Click to expand...
High 1-B Structure < JTTW Main Universe < Yin-Yang forming the JTTW Universe, controlling all Dualities and their boundless functions, substances, and effects < Beings Transcendent of The JTTW Main Universe and Unbound by it, viewing all of it as Unreality including the Yin-Yang < The Great Way (Encompassing the Universe entirely and causing the High 1-B Structure in the first place. The Transcendent beings use The Great Way to transcend.) < Dharma (Encompassing The Great Way and being unfathomably superior to the Yin-Yang. Being able to manifest itself and everything in it into reality as power. Stated to be Boundless.) < True Form Buddha (The Dharma exists as only a part of them.) < Nirvana

So we have no proof that Buddha's scale to Nirvana but we do have proof of them encompassing everything below them.
 
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ActuallySpaceMan said:
High 1-B Structure > JTTW Main Universe > Yin-Yang forming the JTTW Universe, controlling all Dualities and their boundless functions, substances, and effects > Beings Transcendent of The JTTW Main Universe and Unbound by it, viewing all of it as Unreality including the Yin-Yang > The Great Way (Encompassing the Universe entirely and causing the High 1-B Structure in the first place. The Transcendent beings use The Great Way to transcend.) > Dharma (Encompassing The Great Way and being unfathomably superior to the Yin-Yang. Being able to manifest itself and everything in it into reality as power. Stated to be Boundless.) > True Form Buddha (The Dharma exists as only a part of them.) > Nirvana

So we have no proof that Buddha's scale to Nirvana but we do have proof of them encompassing everything below them.
Click to expand...
The arrows should be pointing in the opposite direction.

They should still have the range to cover up the entire cosmology up to Nirvana as they inhabit it.
 
Udlmaster said:
There's just one... teeny...tiny iggling...niggling little detail you're slightly forgetting...


The text is inherently religious. This is as religious as many derivative works like Satanist shit.

This isn't just "Oh, it's a new rendition of Buddha" like some Anime featuring a warped version, this is literally Siddhartha Gautama. This is literally Yu Huang Shang Ti, this is literally Ao Huang.

These are not meant to be be read in this way, it's not "it doesn't do it justice", it's eradicating what the text is and is meant to be read as. To remove the background of Journey to the West as if it's some common place anime like Record of Ragnarok where the only connection to Buddha is one character is just named such, is so intellectually dishonest it's impossible to compare and to try and reframe the discussion from the text being inherently religious and it being fallacious to create profiles from it to "doesn't do its roots right" is laughable.
Click to expand...
Oh that's nice.

@Antvasima can this thread be closed now? If we can't separate the fictional novel that is Journey To The West from "greater Chinese culture", and we can't actually analyze Journey To The West with the concepts of "greater Chinese culture" either, then this entire thread is completely pointless.
Udlmaster said:
But, those damn Monotheists ruin everything again.
Click to expand...
Can you please leave your opinions on types of religion out of this, please?

Especially given that reference to "monotheists" is a bit of a hand-tipper.
 
Malomtek said:
Oh that's nice.

@Antvasima can this thread be closed now? If we can't separate the fictional novel that is Journey To The West from "greater Chinese culture", and we can't actually analyze Journey To The West with the concepts of "greater Chinese culture" either, then this entire thread is completely pointless.

Can you please leave your opinions on types of religion out of this, please?

Especially given that reference to "monotheists" is a bit of a hand-tipper.
Click to expand...
We do not need to close a thread that currently has some form of universal agreement that wukong is now outerversal. SMH.
 
Malomtek said:
Oh that's nice.

@Antvasima can this thread be closed now? If we can't separate the fictional novel that is Journey To The West from "greater Chinese culture", and we can't actually analyze Journey To The West with the concepts of "greater Chinese culture" either, then this entire thread is completely pointless.

Can you please leave your opinions on types of religion out of this, please?

Especially given that reference to "monotheists" is a bit of a hand-tipper.
Click to expand...
No, he said that day's ago and supports the Profile now. We have managed to separate the Religious aspects and outside source's from what is in the book.
Closing the thread now would be a massive waste of time and effort.
 
Greatsage13th said:
We do not need to close a thread that currently has some form of universal agreement that wukong is now outerversal. SMH.
Click to expand...
When was that accepted? From my view, the tiering for the JTTW "world" is just jumping all over the place.

ActuallySpaceMan said:
No, he said that day's ago and supports the Profile now. We have managed to separate the Religious aspects and outside source's from what is in the book.
Closing the thread now would be a massive waste of time and effort.
Click to expand...
@Antvasima is this true?
 
I find it funny my prophesying that that you wouldn't be able to split Wukong from his Buddhist and Daoist roots was entirely correct, and a lot of the supporting evidence on the high-end stuff is just the Author plagiarising copying from Buddhist sutras.

Malomtek said:
Can you please leave your opinions on types of religion out of this, please?

Especially given that reference to "monotheists" is a bit of a hand-tipper.
Click to expand...
Go away, Monad, I will not praise Sophia or the Demiurge!
 
Malomtek said:
When was that accepted? From my view, the tiering for the JTTW "world" is just jumping all over the place.
Click to expand...
Multiple staff accepts the High 1-B Ad Infinitum, everything beyond that is simple logic.
Taking phrases and statements directly from the novel.

Its just a matter of finding where exactly everything settles within Tier 1
 
Udlmaster said:
I find it funny my prophesying that that you wouldn't be able to split Wukong from his Buddhist and Daoist roots was entirely correct, and a lot of the supporting evidence on the high-end stuff is just the Author plagiarising copying from Buddhist sutras.
Click to expand...
If those specific sutra-passages are a part of JTTW, then we can certainly use them here.
Udlmaster said:
Go away, Monad, I will not praise Sophia or the Demiurge!
Click to expand...
Okay but Yahweh still soloes though.
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Multiple staff accepts the High 1-B Ad Infinitum, everything beyond that is simple logic.
Taking phrases and statements directly from the novel.

Its just a matter of finding where exactly everything settles within Tier 1
Click to expand...
By "multiple staff", I assume you just mean @Planck69, because it's really only him that's solidly accepting Tier 1 JTTW in general right now, and even then I'm not sure.
 
Oh, I didn't notice this before, but there's a reference to Indra's net here:
"Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is Mind;
Both Mind and Buddha are important things.
If you perceive there's neither Mind nor Thing,
Yours is the dharmakiiya of True Mind.
The dharmakiiya Has no shape or form:
One pearl-like radiance holding myriad things.
The bodiless body is the body true,
And real form is that form which has no form.
There's no form, no void, no no-emptiness;"
Click to expand...
The part where it speaks about "One pearl-like radiance holding a myriad things" is a references to something called Indra's net.

Indra's net is an infinitely wide, infinitely long net, pieced with polished pearls so shiny they reflect every other pearl in the infinite net. If you were to arbitrarily choose one of the pearls and enter it, you would see all the pearls there, reflecting each other, and reflecting each other's reflection.
 
Udlmaster said:
Oh, I didn't notice this before, but there's a reference to Indra's net here:

The part where it speaks about "One pearl-like radiance holding a myriad things" is a references to something called Indra's net.

Indra's net is an infinitely wide, infinitely long net, pieced with polished pearls so shiny they reflect every other pearl in the infinite net. If you were to arbitrarily choose one of the pearls and enter it, you would see all the pearls there, reflecting each other, and reflecting each other's reflection.
Click to expand...
Oh, I never noticed that. Wish they went into more detail about it.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Have we decided on what the keys are suppose to be labeled as?
Click to expand...
Not really, technically Sun Wukong goes through a bunch of stages and arcs. Even having True Form-ish transformation.
But his power is so inconsistent, a lower-key would have higher feats than a higher one.
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Not really, technically Sun Wukong goes through a bunch of stages and arcs. Even having True Form-ish transformation.
But his power is so inconsistent, a lower-key would have higher feats than a higher one.
Click to expand...
After getting sealed in a mountain with only rocks and molten copper as food and water, it could be the reason why he seemed much more inconsistent, maybe due being rusty.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Have we decided on what the keys are suppose to be labeled as?
Click to expand...
Buddha's keys would be his three Trikayas.

Dharmakaya, his highest and strongest form.

Sambhogakaya, Enjoyment/Bliss body, this is the form which manifests in the Pure-Lands.

Nirmanakaya, Transformation body, this is the body Wukong interacts with and is the one that slammed the Five-elements Mountain on his back.
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
So how about we do

Pre-Sealed, Post-Sealing, Dharma Body (Nirmanakaya), True Form (Dharmakaya)
Attack Potency will have to be a composite of Pre-Sealed and Post-Sealing, and Buddha forms should be simple enough to seperate.
Click to expand...
Alright, but are there any abilities. That the Dharmakaya form has that the Nirmakaya form lacks?
 
Setsuna_tenma said:
wasn`t the mountain special? He could have broken the mountain if it was a normal one

edit:ninjaed
Click to expand...
Yes, it was special, not only was it monstrously huge, it was made of the five-elements, making it perfect. In the beginning, Yin and Yang gave way to the five elements, the five forces.

With the five foundational forces and elements, and the seal placed on the Mountain, even Wukong couldn't lift it.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Alright, but are there any abilities. That the Dharmakaya form has that the Nirmakaya form lacks?
Click to expand...
Considering The Dharmakaya contains the Dharma as part of itself, which is where the Nirmakaya's powers stem from no.
Also added keys and changed the potency stuff.
 
ActuallySpaceMan said:
Considering The Dharmakaya contains the Dharma as part of itself, which is where the Nirmakaya's powers stem from no.
Also added keys and changed the potency stuff.
Click to expand...
Noice but we might need to discuss if whether Dharmakaya wukong is baseline 1A or above baseline 1A or infinitely above baseline 1A or far higher than that. Considering there are many statements that emphasize that the difference between the previous and the next are boundless.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Noice but we might need to discuss if whether Dharmakaya wukong is baseline 1A or above baseline 1A or infinitely above baseline 1A or far higher than that. Considering there are many statements that emphasize that the difference between the previous and the next are boundless.
Click to expand...
Why dont we focus on the lower tiers first? The 1A stuff can be discussed later
 
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