(JTTW) Sun Wukong CRT

[Greatsage13th]

At least that's out of the way ^^^

 

[Rabbit2002]

They shouldn't be to begin with, discuss tier 1 dragon ball somewhere else comrade -_-ll

There are tons of threads about this and it's all denied tier 1 even though the continuum spacetime contained in larger spacetime is accepted, that is reply for what you use for automatic identification is infinite times bigger or tier 1

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

So what's the evidence that it's the size of our universe? A universe can be small or large, the wiki takes the level of the observable universe as a baseline because that is understandable for modern works. But something that literally existed 300 years ago lol???? If you need proof?? Wukong when zoomed in to 30 km, the stick in his hand is as tall as the total length of the 33 heavens to the 18 levels of hell, both on the opposite sides of the universe.

I'm going to enjoy this. His staff was forged at the dawn of creation, able to grow and shrink. It can multiply itself and fly, if he wants it to grow big it can fill the universe. So yes he grew a few miles tall, and his staff grew larger than he did. Here's a literal picture of how it worked.

And Sun Wukong's cloud which has a consistent speed never equal or higher than light speed easily moves to heaven in a very short time, even to its farthest point
I can cite the source if you want, but I could be wrong because I'm not familiar with the original novel version

Not even going to bother answering this, the calcs were looked over and accepted for each of those speed feats.

Universe is spacetime completely unrelated, that's the general definition but how many fictions use that definition all the time? Literally most Villians want to rule the entire universe simply space and matter, similar to all 3A/H3A feats, why don't they automatically tier 2? Don't stuff definitions and excuses "lol proof it isn't, where's your proof? You are the one to prove in the context of the statement if not i could use same arguments to they have tier 0 or WTF it is

Go debate how every other Low 2-C character got their Universe+ status since most of them are using Universe statements.

Dragon Ball's multiverse and timelines facepalm
They should be tier 1 for long time lol

I'm not even going to touch the mess that you just said...

 

[Greatsage13th]

There are tons of threads about this and it's all denied tier 1 even though the continuum spacetime contained in larger spacetime is accepted, that is reply for what you use for automatic identification is infinite times bigger or tier 1

I thought you said...

These are my last words, answer as you please
I won't care about this anymore
Everything is up to the staff to accept it or not

That's just hypocritical of you.

But anyway, DBSH tries to use reality fiction interaction for it's tier 1 justification which doesn't work. Not through bigger space time continuums.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I'm not even going to touch the mess that you just said...

Haha.

 

[Udlmaster]

most of the language in the novel is poetic, flowery language.

It's really not, I've already explained this, but this is just how Pure-Land Buddhist literature is written.

Furthermore, to prove it's Flowery language, you've have to show where the descriptions are incorrect or lying.

 

[Udlmaster]

And honestly the statement "grain of sand" is vague as hell, it just tells them they contain worlds not "all worlds in existence are in sands" and "each world contain sands" in support add infinitum for downwards and upwards too. "As many sands as the Gange river/vast as Gange's sands bla bla" is just a metaphor for an extremely large number

Well, that's a Nichiren Buddhist dictionary, which is the Japanese branch of Buddhism, which is significantly different than Chan/Zen Buddhism, Pure-Land Buddhism and Mahayana Buddhism.

But, I'll meet with you to that peer, that Dictionary says that it's not an "extremely large number", it says an incalculable number.

"An expression indicating an incalculable number. In Buddhist scriptures, “the sands of the Ganges” often appears as an analogy for an uncountable number."

"An expression used to indicate an incalculably large number."

What's incalculably large? Well, we would have to look at what is calculated in a Buddhist's mind.

Well, in the Avatamsaka Sutra, there were a series of Calculations, and there's two general interpretations, the Untold replacements for the monstrously big numbers, or after about 2 pages of calculating doubles and quadruples, the Buddha immediately went to Infinities.

If we go with the former interpretation, we're reaching numbers incomprehensibly big, such as 10^5x2^123 (For reference there's around 10^80 atoms in the Universe)

If we take the latter interpretation, we get multiplication of Infinities, which happens later on in the same Sutra, which is why I prefer to take the latter's interpretation.

Another website also discussed the Ganges river indepth, and they asked the Question:

Question. – How many grains of sand are there in the Ganges?

Answer. – No mathematician is capable of knowing the number

 

[Greatsage13th]

It's really not, I've already explained this, but this is just how Pure-Land Buddhist literature is written.

Furthermore, to prove it's Flowery language, you've have to show where the descriptions are incorrect or lying.

Yup

 

[Greatsage13th]

Bump for blessing

 

[Antvasima]

@Planck69 @Zaratthustra

It seems like only Udlmaster thinks that it is impossible to separate TJTTW from its religious context. Should we allow Sun Wukong to be added after all then?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I stick to what I said last time Udlmaster disagreed. What he thinks is different then what is possible. He doesn't say it's impossible to because he thinks it's hard to separate them. He would rather just wants to add context that wasn't explicitly stated that he thinks is obvious.

Either way, his statement on it being impossible doesn't reflect the profile.

The profile as it is easy enough to understand. We didn't bend anything backward to get to High 1-B, with the only people disagreeing with Universe's being Spacetime continuum's and not knowing how layering works. And even then I've debunked them with no one refuting my logic. It would honestly be a shame if a profile that is literally on the crisp of being down, besides calcs get removed the cause of a single person's feelings on it.

Especially considering our number one issue is calcs and not something like discerning the meaning of words, or wondering what Buddhist sutra we need to reach into to make this work.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I have a proposal that the 300 million mile river is possibly the ganges river, because as mentioned in this thread, the thunder monastery is in India if I remember correctly (someone definitely said that in this thread, so correct me if I'm wrong) , so when Guan Yin flew from the thunder monastery to her destination, the first major river she encountered should be the ganges due to its geographical location on the map. Any disagreements? And no, I'm not going to do a cultural nuance and say ganges is infinite.

I'm referring to you udl.

If not, then we can scale the ganges in JTTW to the ganges in IRL.

 

[Udlmaster]

I'm referring to you udl.

I still have no idea what river you're talking about, and have no idea if Guess work is needed.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I still have no idea what river you're talking about, and have no idea if Guess work is needed.

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ss...oid-oppo-rvo2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

We'll be attempting to scale the JTTW river of flowing sand to the IRL ganges river

 

[Udlmaster]

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ss...oid-oppo-rvo2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

We'll be attempting to scale the JTTW river of flowing sand to the IRL ganges river

You mean the Sand Gate river?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Bump for blessing

Mind checking the resistance tab for the Dharmakaya? I want to make sure everything there is justified.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why won't having a bigger space time dwarf another

Because there's a difference between conceptually superiority and just contsi something.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Because there's a difference between conceptually superiority and just contsi something.

A High 1-B Structure just needs to be an Infinite Structure in which each level trivializes the lower layer Infinitely. It can be through size, superiority isn't the only way.

 

[Quantu]

Honestly, I think Spaceman makes a lot of sense.

There also seems to be the urge from some to abandon the profile at any given obstacle, even though he has put a lot of effort into separating the two.

 

[Greatsage13th]

You mean the Sand Gate river?

Yes, depending on which translation you use.

 

[Udlmaster]

Yes, depending on which translation you use.

That is the Ganges, the translator's note literally says it's the River Ganges:

A pun on his religious name, as the Gate of Sand refers to the sand of the River Ganges: hence Buddhism.

Also, btw, I just found something interesting:

The Dragon Palace, and worlds vast as Ganges' sands.
Every day the flowers bloom;
Every hour the fruits ripen.

This is one translation, whana know the other?

The infinite realms of the Dragon Palace.
Every day flowers bloom,
Fruit is always ripe.

Guess who was right.

This bitch.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

If Ganges' sands are accepted by the staff as a world for Infinite then sheeee. Pure Land = Infinite Universes = Infinite Pure Lands = +More Infinite Universes = +More Infinite Pure Lands = ++Infinite Universes, still High 1-B but Infinitely better than before.

 

[Greatsage13th]

That is the Ganges, the translator's note literally says it's the River Ganges:





Also, btw, I just found something interesting:


This is one translation, whana know the other?

Guess who was right.

This bitch.

Guess you win this one. Haha.

 

[Qawsedf234]

A High 1-B Structure just needs to be an Infinite Structure in which each level trivializes the lower layer Infinitely

Which I don't it doing here. Having recursive universes isn't the same as conceptual superiority.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Which I don't it doing here. Having recursive universes isn't the same as conceptual superiority.

Pretty sure it's agreed Dharma > boundless Yin and Yang. I don't see your point.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Pretty sure it's agreed Dharma > boundless Yin and Yang.

A few people saying that doesn't mean "universal agreement of rating".

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Which I don't it doing here. Having recursive universes isn't the same as conceptual superiority.

Your an administrator how do you not know how spacetime continuum work?

 

[Greatsage13th]

A few people saying that doesn't mean "universal agreement of rating".

There are many ways to breach into tier 1 territory, infinite transcendence over 4D space to get to 5D (@Eficiente 's words not mine), reality-fiction transcendence, transcending higher sets of infinity and etc, this is also one of those ways. Besides @ActuallySpaceMan bonked your argument, only @Matthew_Schroeder and one other disagreeing while the former is disagreeing without a definite reason rendering his disagreement weightless.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

We really need more staff input on this

 

[Greatsage13th]

We really need more staff input on this

Yeah

 

[Greatsage13th]

We really need more staff input on this

Yeah

 

[Greatsage13th]

Anyways, attempting to calc wukong's lower tiers seems redundant after what @Udlmaster found

 

[Qawsedf234]

how spacetime continuum work?

I do know how it works, which is why I don't think recursive universes count for more than 2-A.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I do know how it works, which is why I don't think recursive universes count for more than 2-A.

Define recursive

 

[Qawsedf234]

Define recursive

In this context, something containing something else. Like a makoshika doll

 

[Planck69]

I'm not gonna defend or debunk Wukong in specific but recursive universes can very much act like layered hierarchies. Provided that said universes act as smaller objects embedded in the higher universe's timestream and thus, exist as uncountably infinite "slices" across time due to time's continuous nature (like how busting a timeline grants Low 2-C via destroying uncountably infinite 3-dimensional objects when destroying time). It's arguable whether or not that's the case here but the form of tiering itself is sound.

 

[Greatsage13th]

In this context, something containing something else. Like a makoshika doll

I have no notion of a makoshika doll, but however saying that a bigger space time containing a space time that is smaller than itself isn't valid for tier 1, is like saying that the set of all real numbers containing the set of all natural numbers isn't valid for tier 1. It's the same exact idea that you brought upon us. It really contradicts the other method of getting into tier 1.

 

[Planck69]

I have no notion of a makoshika doll, but however saying that a bigger space time containing a space time that is smaller than itself isn't valid for tier 1, is like saying that the set of all real numbers containing the set of all natural numbers isn't valid for tier 1. It's the same exact idea that you brought upon us. It really contradicts the other method of getting into tier 1.

Qawsedf is right that just having a space-time containing another isn't enough. The containment has to be in the same vein as our space-time continuum holding a regular galaxy or some such.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

I'm fine with 2-A wukong as long as he has a profile on the wiki and it's accurate

 

[Greatsage13th]

Qawsedf is right that just having a space-time containing another isn't enough. The containment has to be in the same vein as our space-time continuum holding a regular galaxy or some such.

Huh, guess I used a wrong comparison.

But anyways @Qawsedf234 could you give a new counterargument since your previous one was dismantled by @ActuallySpaceMan . Otherwise you're only slowing down the inevitable.