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JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Discussion Thread IV: Diamond is Unbreakable

Chariot190 said:
General rule of thumb.
If your Stand can 1v1 TW or Plat in context without set up, you overextended.
Click to expand...
I don't believe Do-Re-Mi (non-Requiem) could 1v1 The World or Star Platinum, at least not without an extremely skilled user. First, although I say it's "comparable" to them in power enough to be in the same ballpark, it can't hit quite as hard or move quite as fast even when manifested all in one place, so it would be at a noticeable disadvantage in a Stand Rush. Second, it has no direct counter to Time Stop. Third, both its ability to unravel into notes that fly independently and its music blasts require great finesse to control properly, which doesn't come built-in and must be trained very hard to master, and I don't imagine the user as a Stand-using genius.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I don't believe Do-Re-Mi (non-Requiem) could 1v1 The World or Star Platinum, at least not without an extremely skilled user. First, although I say it's "comparable" to them in power enough to be in the same ballpark, it can't hit quite as hard or move quite as fast even when manifested all in one place, so it would be at a noticeable disadvantage in a Stand Rush. Second, it has no direct counter to Time Stop. Third, both its ability to unravel into notes that fly independently and its music blasts require great finesse to control properly, which doesn't come built-in and must be trained very hard to master, and I don't imagine the user as a Stand-using genius.
Click to expand...
That’s fair. I guess then it’s more like Stone Free and Gold Experience where it has good close range power, but is overall a bit weaker than the ones who ultimately invest in that kind of stuff.

On the topic of its range, honestly even if it needs to be trained, 5km is MASSIVE. I feel like a range of even 1km would be just as effective without getting too crazy.
 
Nemu13 said:
Who's the spaghetti man?
Click to expand...
Short version, it’s one of the Rohan short story antagonists

Longer answer that’s still kinda short, it’s basically a living black hole disguised as a human that higher dimensional beings are using to hunt for humans. Think of humans as fish, and the Spaghetti man as a worm on a hook.
 
A fanmade Stand should never be able to beat Plat flatout. It's like making a Dragon Ball OC, and that OC is like as strong as Zeno or something.

Stands have purpose, they don't just do everything. In the context of Stands, if your Stand can box TW, it isnt going to have all this hax, it's a trade off.

If a Stand is a Power-Type, it usually trades wide utility moves like what's being described for said stat advantage. A power type can have abilities, but theyre usually specific in nature.

This Stand reads like a phenomena Type Stand, that has the benefits of a long range Stand (even tens of meters is extremely good, hundreds is for Stands dedicated to being long range like Aqua Necklace), with the ability to become a god tier in CQC (Even being close to Plat and TW means it outboxes every Power Type bar maybe 3). That's to much at once. For reference, we do have Stands that do as described, Stone Free for example is a long ranged Stand, that can fold together to become a Power Type, but she still pales compared to true Power Types and her ability is niche to offset that advantage, having utility, but only in specific cases.
 
Chariot190 said:
A fanmade Stand should never be able to beat Plat flatout.
Click to expand...
It can't and was never envisioned to be able to.
Chariot190 said:
Stands have purpose, they don't just do everything. In the context of Stands, if your Stand can box TW, it isnt going to have all this hax, it's a trade off.

If a Stand is a Power-Type, it usually trades wide utility moves like what's being described for said stat advantage. A power type can have abilities, but theyre usually specific in nature.
Click to expand...
First, it can't box that hard, and second, I would argue that Weather Report, which is stronger physically than Do-Re-Mi, is comparable in versatility.
Chariot190 said:
This Stand reads like a phenomena Type Stand, that has the benefits of a long range Stand (even tens of meters is extremely good, hundreds is for Stands dedicated to being long range like Aqua Necklace), with the ability to become a god tier in CQC (Even being close to Plat and TW means it outboxes every Power Type bar maybe 3). That's to much at once. For reference, we do have Stands that do as described, Stone Free for example is a long ranged Stand, that can fold together to become a Power Type, but she still pales compared to true Power Types and her ability is niche to offset that advantage, having utility, but only in specific cases.
Click to expand...
First, once the notes go past tens of meters, they and their music become weaker than the average 10-C, so even though Do-Re-Mi can technically go kilometers, at that point, it's so weak that uses for it to go that far are going to be rare as heck. Second, what's supposed to offset the advantage here is that Do-Re-Mi is extremely difficult to control with any precision if you try to use it as anything more sophisticated than a generic striking Stand, even though its haxes have high potential.
 
Nemu13 said:
So can we add "1-A with Beyond" tier on both joji and dio?
Click to expand...
Not really. At best, they get 1-A durability since Beyond only can defend them from threats by manipulating the plot around them. I doubt even that though, since he never directly helps them. Beyond never gives them any power, just protects them indirectly.
 
Chritin said:
Not really. At best, they get 1-A durability since Beyond only can defend them from threats by manipulating the plot around them. I doubt even that though, since he never directly helps them. Beyond never gives them any power, just protects them indirectly.
Click to expand...
Well, i remember dio uses beyond to think he is "the king of the world" and awakening the world ultimate after that getting stomp by kars lol tho i don't remember which page is it
 
Nemu13 said:
Well, i remember dio uses beyond to think he is "the king of the world" and awakening the world ultimate after that getting stomp by kars lol tho i don't remember which page is it
Click to expand...
Beyond doesn’t make it so that his chosen characters don’t struggle or can’t be injured (we literally see George die despite having beyond help him), but rather that they will ultimately persist and beat their opponent through narrative events. So it isn’t surprising Dio got bodied by Kars even after thinking that.

Also iirc, he only awakened TWU after seeing Kars do it first, so it’s not even like TWU is some beyond trickery either if that’s what you meant.
 
Chariot190 said:
General rule of thumb.
If your Stand can 1v1 TW or Plat in context without set up, you overextended.
Click to expand...
I had an MC who held his own against DIO for a bit. He used Berryberry Skull, which I put at Chariot level, and wore it like a suit of armor, while charging it with Hamon. I actually had a bit of trouble trying to figure out a way for DIO to win, so I had him through a stop sign through his torso.
 
SlendVeny said:
I had an MC who held his own against DIO for a bit. He used Berryberry Skull, which I put at Chariot level, and wore it like a suit of armor, while charging it with Hamon. I actually had a bit of trouble trying to figure out a way for DIO to win, so I had him through a stop sign through his torso.
Click to expand...
What’s this story you wrote?
 
Chritin said:
Beyond doesn’t make it so that his chosen characters don’t struggle or can’t be injured (we literally see George die despite having beyond help him), but rather that they will ultimately persist and beat their opponent through narrative events. So it isn’t surprising Dio got bodied by Kars even after thinking that.

Also iirc, he only awakened TWU after seeing Kars do it first, so it’s not even like TWU is some beyond trickery either if that’s what you meant.
Click to expand...
Ok then, then should we add "Varies with Beyond" or "Unknown with Beyond" if this case?
 
Dio had TWU first, Funny says as much, Kars copied it off him.
Beyond makes it so they win no matter what, but how they win can be complex, nuanced, and a struggle, it's just that they 100% will win no matter what, asspulls can happen, deus ex machinas can occur, but that doesn't mean the route to victory won't have hardships, all that's guranteed is that they will win, how it happens can be all over the place.

Beyond likes things to be interesting basically, it's writing a story after all, they might be assured victory, but like, we know Goku will win in Daima for example at the end, but that won't mean stuff won't happen to make it interesting.
 
DRW001 said:
Kars can't understand 1-A stuff, at least not in memey 'I take your powers and make them infinitely better lol' way. He knew about Beyond and what Beyond entails, he even questions Joji on it and says he has no desire to be the protagonist, but he never at all 'understood' Beyond and gained their abilities or anything close to that. Joji himself says that even someone as overwhelming as Kars is still a necessary element for Joji to perform his role as a detective and as a protagonist.

It does mean that Kars now has completely insane intelligence and cosmic awareness though.
Click to expand...
So kars basically Nigh-Omniscience?
 
Nemu13 said:
So can we add "1-A with Beyond" tier on both joji and dio?
Click to expand...
I don't really think so as Beyond never directly fights for them, only manipulating stuff behind the scenes to help them win.

I think we should just put a link to Beyond's profile on their profiles when explaining the plot manip, fate manip, etc. they have have and leave it at that.

Speaking of, here's how my Beyond sandbox is looking so far. Still need to write up the summary and add one or two more scans but it's mostly finished

vsbattles.fandom.com

DRW001/sandboxBeyond

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Nemu13 said:
What do you think about this? @Chariot190
Click to expand...
We wouldn't do that, for the same reasn we don't add like 2-B to Link or Zelda's profile, despite being blessed and backed by the Golden Godesses for example.
joji and Dio are blessed, they have backing by a 1-A dude, the 1-A dude will manipulate events to favor them, but Beyond won't fight for them, even if what it does is the next best thing.

They basically just got 1-A plot armor (we don't rate nonoffensive hax in AP, which is why GER isn't like High 3-A, despite having accepted High 3-A/4D hax), we detail what Beyond does for them, primarily in their n&at section, link to the Beyond profile for extra reference, and make note they basically have smurf hax.
 
Chariot190 said:
We wouldn't do that, for the same reasn we don't add like 2-B to Link or Zelda's profile, despite being blessed and backed by the Golden Godesses for example.
joji and Dio are blessed, they have backing by a 1-A dude, the 1-A dude will manipulate events to favor them, but Beyond won't fight for them, even if what it does is the next best thing.

They basically just got 1-A plot armor (we don't rate nonoffensive hax in AP, which is why GER isn't like High 3-A, despite having accepted High 3-A/4D hax), we detail what Beyond does for them, primarily in their n&at section, link to the Beyond profile for extra reference, and make note they basically have smurf hax.
Click to expand...
VSBW fans when Byeond makes the narrative conclusion for the Joestars winning Goku killing them and reviving them later with the dragon balls to fight a greater threat:
 
CBslayeR said:
VSBW fans when Byeond makes the narrative conclusion for the Joestars winning Goku killing them and reviving them later with the dragon balls to fight a greater threat:
Click to expand...
Wouldn't be them winning in that scenario. Like if Dio wants to kill Goku, he'll kill Goku, it just won't be "Goku drops dead because a 1-A said so".

I mean for VSBW purposes, Joji and Dio pretty much are unbeatable, like it don't matter if they high diff if the high diff is just for show and they'll always win.
 
vsbattles.com

Asta vs Johnny Joestar (1-1-1)

Crippled Man with the power of Jesus on his way to purify the Devil Rules: Speed is not equalized Asta has his Post Zetten key Johnny has his Tusk Act 4 key Distance: 20m Arena: Random Desert Asta: @noninho Johnny: @TheRadiantSoul Neutral: Pasta: @ReaperAndBlues
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
20241023_223912.jpg
 
I just realized that this thread is the general Jojo thread, not just part 4 Jojo. Each thread is named after the parts. It's so genius.
 
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