JoJo Stand User Bracket Round 2 Match 2 (Kakyoin vs Polnareff) (6-6-0)

[ZillertheBucko]

Bumf

 

[CBslayeR]

bump

 

[ZillertheBucko]

bump
why is this particular thread so dead, we just need someone to vote so winner can lose to jotaro and we can continue the tournament

 

[ZillertheBucko]

ummm mind giving your input then
anything to keep this going

 

[StekFence]

What if we just skipped it, and moved onto Jotaro vs whoever won the other matches tree

 

[ZillertheBucko]

in other words jotaro fights kakyoin
or
polnareff

 

[StekFence]

in other words jotaro fights kakyoin
or
polnareff

No like, We know jot wins both matches, so just skip those matches entirely. It literally doesn’t matter who wins here

 

[ZillertheBucko]

actually tbh I could make an argument for kakyoin beating jotaro

 

[StekFence]

Dunno if Pol could. Jot said he’d need to go all out to beat Pol , but does that count his speed boost with armor off? Or things like his Sword shoot? Who’s Jotaro fighting after he beats either these guys anyway?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Dunno if Pol could. Jot said he’d need to go all out to beat Pol , but does that count his speed boost with armor off? Or things like his Sword shoot?

Polnareff with his full armor off is still slower than star platinum by statements I think, but he's probably still relative given how much they emphasize his speed and the fact that did match jotaro (only with partial armor removal and a speed and skill buff from another stand) but his sword shoot is a secret that Jotaro doesn't even know of, so maybe it could land a hit
but still, jotaro fastest by statements and there's no proof that he cant react to that since it's just a single projectile and worst case scenario would just get tanked by star platinum (or nullified by Jotaro's godlike stamina he used while beating down kira and tanking an ape's boat fan thing)
but kakyoin with the funny meter emerald splash would probably have an easier time since he wouldn't be directly challenging him in a fistfight, and the fact that he forced dio into stopping time with it. Polnareff's big problem is that he would have to try and beat star platinum at his own game but there's just too much there that makes it evident that star platinum is second only to things like GER, even surpassing his stronger version fairly quickly
that's why I think voting kakyoin here would be better since, even if the match is close, kakyoin winning makes the next round more interesting and less of a nearly stomping match

 

[ZillertheBucko]

if stands with massive amps were able to surpass him then chili pepper would be stronger than Jotar man rn

 

[Baken384]

Speed equal rules with Stands are a bitch. Polnareff blitzes GG

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Speed equal rules with Stands are a bitch. Polnareff blitzes GG

wait what
chariot actually beating star platinum???

 

[Baken384]

wait what
chariot actually beating star platinum???

no, chariot blitzes hierophant green here

 

[Baken384]

Dunno if Pol could. Jot said he’d need to go all out to beat Pol

Jotaro needed to go all out against a Pol who was possessed with Anubis who was already massively above Chariot in both Power and Speed.
Magician's Red was still somewhat swapping hands with Chariot Armorless, obviously he is slower but he ain't getting outright destroyed there.

Star Platinum while holding back was already ******** on Anubis Khan who was ******** on Polnareff and was contending with a Anubis Chariot who had all those amps it got from facing a Holding Back Platinum and Chariot while at the same time slowly climbing the ranks of power and speed to overwhelm Star Platinum

 

[ZillertheBucko]

no, chariot blitzes hierophant green here

kakyoin does the range equivalent of speed blitzing here

 

[ZillertheBucko]

also kakyoin can do what avdol did but he can do it way more efficiently due to the sheer control he has that allows him to set traps without people noticing, no need for underground fireball shenaningans and getting your fire reflected back at you

 

[Baken384]

kakyoin does the range equivalent of speed blitzing here

Chariot literally slices everything Kakyoin does no matter what, all his attacks are literally next to useless with that massive ass speed gap
MFTL vs Relativistic
Kakyoin can keep running all he wants, Polnareff can keep chasing him till the ends of the earth because in the battle of nutrition, Polnareff slaps Kakyoin here, Kakyoin can run all day and eventually he will be tired while my boy Polnareff will still be chasing after his ass
Peak Human vs High.

also kakyoin can do what avdol did but he can do it way more efficiently due to the sheer control he has that allows him to set traps without people noticing, no need for underground fireball shenaningans and getting your fire reflected back at you

How can he do that when SIlver Chariot slashes it at MFTL speeds, you do realize the speed gap here. The moment Polnareff gets hit by this "trap" Chariot slices and dices it at MFTL speeds before he can do any major damage. Magician's Red has comparable speeds to Chariot while Hierophant Green outright gets blitzed, all his attack speed would be useless as **** since their all traveling at relativistic speeds against a MFTL character who can get even more faster with Rage and Armor Off. Hell, Polnareff can deadass shoot his sword and Kakyoin has no way of defending himself because his Stand is just Relativistic compared to the MFTL Speed Value.

Im pretty sure this follows SBA because it has shit like they fight in Central Park and all. I can assume we are using the Enraged Polnareff from the start here as stated in SBA rules:
Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version.
So this little "Range Advantage" Kakyoin has is kinda lowered significantly when you realized Rage Chariot can go pretty far from its standard 1 meter range.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Chariot literally slices everything Kakyoin does no matter what, all his attacks are literally next to useless with that massive ass speed gap
MFTL vs Relativistic
Kakyoin can keep running all he wants, Polnareff can keep chasing him till the ends of the earth because in the battle of nutrition, Polnareff slaps Kakyoin here, Kakyoin can run all day and eventually he will be tired while my boy Polnareff will still be chasing after his ass
Peak Human vs High.

How can he do that when SIlver Chariot slashes it at MFTL speeds, you do realize the speed gap here. The moment Polnareff gets hit by this "trap" Chariot slices and dices it at MFTL speeds before he can do any major damage. Magician's Red has comparable speeds to Chariot while Hierophant Green outright gets blitzed, all his attack speed would be useless as **** since their all traveling at relativistic speeds against a MFTL character who can get even more faster with Rage and Armor Off. Hell, Polnareff can deadass shoot his sword and Kakyoin has no way of defending himself because his Stand is just Relativistic compared to the MFTL Speed Value.

Im pretty sure this follows SBA because it has shit like they fight in Central Park and all. I can assume we are using the Enraged Polnareff from the start here as stated in SBA rules:
Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version.
So this little "Range Advantage" Kakyoin has is kinda lowered significantly when you realized Rage Chariot can go pretty far from its standard 1 meter range.

being angry isn't a new version
speed didn't matter since polnareff still blitzed avdol completely, but he hit him where he didn't see it coming which was the entire point of the fight
kakyoin also has used similar things like that, especially against dio, jotaro, the super fly, and steely dan (twice)

 

[ZillertheBucko]

kakyoin can make hierophant invisible even to other stand users pretty easily though, which is why his attacks are so often effective like that even if there's some kind of massive speed gap

 

[Baken384]

speed didn't matter since polnareff still blitzed avdol completely, but he hit him where he didn't see it coming which was the entire point of the fight

Yes, Magician's Red is also MFTL and we can assume his flames are the same. That's why Polnareff deadass got hit in the first place. I'm pretty sure an Emerald Splash is not enough to destroy Chariot's Armor, he will literally adapt and go "Okay you do this" and would try to come up with a strategy to counter Kakyoin such as the shooting of the sword technique, aka the technique not even the crusaders know aka a projectile that Kakyoin can't even hope to deflect because the speed of the rapier is far beyond whatever the **** Kakyoin has to pull out.

kakyoin also has used similar things like that, especially against dio, jotaro, the super fly, and steely dan (twice)

Yes how will he set up this trap? Will he just run away and try setting it while Polnareff chases after him and shoots his sword if he feels like he can't close the gap? A Sword that Kakyoin that has no way to even deflect it thanks to the speed gap and could one shot Kakyoin/Hierophant Green RIP, Will he try to set up traps while shooting Emerald Splashes towards Polnareff? He simply deflects them back at Kakyoin, setting up traps would be difficult as shit because Polnareff like I said would constantly be pressuring him and Polnareff being caught in his "traps" can easily be destroyed thanks to these tentacles being glasscannons and can easily be sliced within one swift cut.

Literally Kakyoin needs to hit a shitton of emerald splashes that Polnareff can easily deflect back onto Kakyoin and though Polnareff's intelligence isn't as good as Kakyoin, he can still make up plans on his own

kakyoin can make hierophant invisible even to other stand users pretty easily though, which is why his attacks are so often effective like that even if there's some kind of massive speed gap

What the traps gonna do, trap Polnareff or something? Chariot slices through that shit, its not like those traps is gonna decimate Polnareff with him having Chariot there to protect him alongside immense durability thanks to Chariot's armor, it would be the game of cat and mouse, Kakyoin does not have much options while Polnareff does with his Stat Amps with Rage (This can be the case that he will get annoyed or some shit, its still a possible wincon), Shooting of the Sword (An obvious wincon because Kakyoin can't do shit about that move)

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Yes, Magician's Red is also MFTL and we can assume his flames are the same. That's why Polnareff deadass got hit in the first place. I'm pretty sure an Emerald Splash is not enough to destroy Chariot's Armor, he will literally adapt and go "Okay you do this" and would try to come up with a strategy to counter Kakyoin such as the shooting of the sword technique, aka the technique not even the crusaders know aka a projectile that Kakyoin can't even hope to deflect because the speed of the rapier is far beyond whatever the **** Kakyoin has to pull out.

speed is equalized + he still blitzed avdol, avdol definitely hit him without trying to outspeed him rewatch the fight

Yes how will he set up this trap? Will he just run away and try setting it while Polnareff chases after him and shoots his sword if he feels like he can't close the gap? A Sword that Kakyoin that has no way to even deflect it thanks to the speed gap and could one shot Kakyoin/Hierophant Green RIP, Will he try to set up traps while shooting Emerald Splashes towards Polnareff? He simply deflects them back at Kakyoin, setting up traps would be difficult as shit because Polnareff like I said would constantly be pressuring him and Polnareff being caught in his "traps" can easily be destroyed thanks to these tentacles being glasscannons and can easily be sliced within one swift cut.

the fly fight, he sets up traps while shooting
also speed equalized

What the traps gonna do, trap Polnareff or something? Chariot slices through that shit, its not like those traps is gonna decimate Polnareff with him having Chariot there to protect him alongside immense durability thanks to Chariot's armor, it would be the game of cat and mouse, Kakyoin does not have much options while Polnareff does with his Stat Amps with Rage (This can be the case that he will get annoyed or some shit, its still a possible wincon), Shooting of the Sword (An obvious wincon because Kakyoin can't do shit about that move)

kakyoin has semi omnidirectional options which can to some extent ignore speed
also don't forget that avdol used the same idea to sneak up on polnareff who still completely blitzed him even if he is the same technical speed tier

rage is unrealistic, the only time it has ever been shown happening is after not one, but two of his friends died in a fight
now unless we have a spare avdol and iggy then it would be beyond out of character for that to apply. "A near death situation would surely piss him off!" argument doesn't work either since that'd be the very first time he has gotten the rage boost from a situation like that

 

[ZillertheBucko]

to reemphasize the point about hierophant being nearly undetectable if kakyoin chooses so
dio himself didn't notice for a while that he was surrounded in webs, and not only can he see stands but he also has enhanced senses as a vampire. He only noticed around the time kakyoin announced himself, which means that polnareff will most likely not see it coming when kakyoin tries to use his tentacles

 

[ZillertheBucko]

1 more note why doesn't polnareff get an AP increase when enraged I just noticed that issue on his profile (this isn't about the battle btw, just a weird thing I saw)

 

[Baken384]

speed is equalized

Speed Equalized regarding Stands are ****** and im just gonna roll with it. The Speed is equalized to Polnareff/Kakyoin while their Stands are the same speed. I didn't make this shit up.

rage is unrealistic, the only time it has ever been shown happening is after not one, but two of his friends died in a fight

Who cares if Rage is unrealistic, he still has it in his profile, he can use it and still a valid wincon for Polnareff's favor. Literally all of Kakyoin's so called "wincons" are not even that great once you realize his traps are Hierophant's Tentacles, aka the small building Hierophant Green that can barely scratch Chariot because Small Building vs At least Building+

So the tentacles can't do shit against Chariot and his main damage dealer is Emerald Splash and has proven to be easy to deflect from Dio deflecting them casually. Silver Chariot has the precision to create a clock made out of fire to striking a statue with Avdol's own flames to carve a statue of Magician's Red. deflecting his Emerald Splash is literally easy as shit with that speed advantage.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Speed Equalized regarding Stands are ****** and im just gonna roll with it. The Speed is equalized to Polnareff/Kakyoin while their Stands are the same speed. I didn't make this shit up.

wait wait wait no
ok that's very cringo and stuff but whatever, it doesn't affect my main argument point anyways

Who cares if Rage is unrealistic, he still has it in his profile, he can use it and still a valid wincon for Polnareff's favor. Literally all of Kakyoin's so called "wincons" are not even that great once you realize his traps are Hierophant's Tentacles, aka the small building Hierophant Green that can barely scratch Chariot because Small Building vs At least Building+

let me rephrase, it's quite literally not combat applicable for this fight in particular, so I'm saying it's not a real win condition based on what we've seen. It would be impossible to piss off polnareff that much even if he tried because it's just so blatantly out of character that it might as well not even be there
also kakyoin would be targeting polnareff if this is a fight to the death, not chariot itself. That's why a sneaky attack would be good, all he has to do is one shot chariot and it's a W in the bag for him
also hierophant is 8-C with the emerald splash which is his primary attack so that doesn't really matter

So the tentacles can't do shit against Chariot and his main damage dealer is Emerald Splash and has proven to be easy to deflect from Dio deflecting them casually. Silver Chariot has the precision to create a clock made out of fire to striking a statue with Avdol's own flames to carve a statue of Magician's Red. deflecting his Emerald Splash is literally easy as shit with that speed advantage.

the tentacles themselves are what shoot emerald splashes, so no
avdol being blitzed still means nothing, as I said before kakyoin simply sneaks up on him with invisible tentacles the same way polnareff was caught by fire
so the argument is unchanged for me, it's just that thanks to shitty equalization that polnareff gets his sword shot back (although he would still have to defend from emerald splashes for a lot of the time so getting rid of his weapon like that would put him in a bad situation, especially since kakyoin would be aware of chariot's speed advantage, he wouldn't let up)

 

[Baken384]

the tentacles themselves are what shoot emerald splashes, so no
avdol being blitzed still means nothing, as I said before kakyoin simply sneaks up on him with invisible tentacles the same way polnareff was caught by fire
so the argument is unchanged for me, it's just that thanks to shitty equalization that polnareff gets his sword shot back (although he would still have to defend from emerald splashes for a lot of the time so getting rid of his weapon like that would put him in a bad situation, especially since kakyoin would be aware of chariot's speed)

How the shit can he sneak up behind him when they start off 15 meters away from each other? He can literally pull the same trick he did against Diavolo by having Chariot spin around Polnareff doing that 360 slash.

let me rephrase, it's quite literally not combat applicable for this fight in particular, so I'm saying it's not a real win condition based on what we've seen. It would be impossible to piss off polnareff that much even if he tried because it's just so blatantly out of character that it might as well not even be there
also kakyoin would be targeting polnareff if this is a fight to the death, not chariot itself. That's why a sneaky attack would be good, all he has to do is one shot chariot and it's a W in the bag for him
also hierophant is 8-C with the emerald splash which is his primary attack so that doesn't really matter

Yes, Kakyoin would target Polnareff with Chariot there to defend him. His primary attack method, Emerald Splash gets deflected in a mere instant. Chariot would be there right beside Chariot in case Kakyoin does do anything.

wait wait wait no
ok that's very cringo and stuff but whatever, it doesn't affect my main argument point anyways

indeed it is cringe.

Let's stop here for a moment and consider this, what is stopping Polnareff from immediately shooting his rapier to Kakyoin here? He knows that Kakyoin is a ranged fighter, Kakyoin knows Polnareff is a close ranged fighter. Kakyoin has no knowledge of the shooting of the rapier technique. Polnareff knows Kakyoin would try keeping his range, so why does he not shoot out his ace in a hole because for some odd ass reason he can't get near him. With that speed gap (MFTL Vs Rela) and the Rapier could one shot either Kakyoin or Hierophant. With that precision of his, he can make a trickshot and end Kakyoin right there.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

How the shit can he sneak up behind him when they start off 15 meters away from each other? He can literally pull the same trick he did against Diavolo by having Chariot spin around Polnareff doing that 360 slash.

the slash was completely non precise cause he didn't even get a good hit on diavolo

Yes, Kakyoin would target Polnareff with Chariot there to defend him. His primary attack method, Emerald Splash gets deflected in a mere instant. Chariot would be there right beside Chariot in case Kakyoin does do anything.

and I am saying that he doesn't deflect it if it's sneaky and he doesn't know it's there, simple

Let's stop here for a moment and consider this, what is stopping Polnareff from immediately shooting his rapier to Kakyoin here? He knows that Kakyoin is a ranged fighter, Kakyoin knows Polnareff is a close ranged fighter. Kakyoin has no knowledge of the shooting of the rapier technique. Polnareff knows Kakyoin would try keeping his range, so why does he not shoot out his ace in a hole because for some odd ass reason he can't get near him. With that speed gap (MFTL Vs Rela) and the Rapier could one shot either Kakyoin or Hierophant. With that precision of his, he can make a trickshot and end Kakyoin right there.

because even if it would result in an advantage he still uses it as a last resort as confirmed by his own statement
also I'm gonna keep it real I don't think that sword shot scales to his speed to any extent
actually after rewatching some stuff, I don't even think anubis is mftl when he's not using chariot, he just seems to overpower polnareff through sheer strength every time, and polnareff himself even dodges a bunch of his attacks in fight one. I'm too lazy to deal with the arguments of a crt though so maybe I'll give you this point for the sake of getting this over with
kak is still gonna be putting on the pressure from the start and it's blatantly out of character for polnareff to lead with it before then, so kak is the more likely winner

 

[ZillertheBucko]

gonna have to get somebody else to look into the anubis being peak human level speed stuff though, seems like a scaling issue to me

 

[Chariot190]

anubis being peak human level speed stuff though

Anubis fast as ****, he's actually fast enough to push Chariot back, he's listed as MFTL flat out, even his movement is fast (maybe not MFTL but he can go FTE over long distances).

Plat still >>> the first few anubis' tho and was only really truly pushed back when Chariot came out.

 

[Baken384]

the slash was completely non precise cause he didn't even get a good hit on diavolo

And? That slash was enough to potentially heavily injure Diavolo.

and I am saying that he doesn't deflect it if it's sneaky and he doesn't know it's there, simple

Then Polnareff just takes the attack, he literally takes the attack in Canon how is this remotely gonna kill Polnareff when he took it in canon alongside Chariot protecting him who can take hits from The Emerald Splash alongside his second wind aka armor off if he takes too much damage.

also I'm gonna keep it real I don't think that sword shot scales to his speed to any extent

Why not? Anubis Chaka didn't get to deflect the sword shot because he didn't know about it and was shown to be on par with Chariot in speed and power if not even better. Then Anubis Khan adapted and even got stronger and faster to the point he managed to easily block the sword shot and he also had knowledge about it too.

actually after rewatching some stuff, I don't even think anubis is mftl when he's not using chariot, he just seems to overpower polnareff through sheer strength every time,

Yes he is, Anubis literally shat on Chariot. Anubis Polnareff is MFTL for being faster than Anubis Khan who is faster than Chariot. Anubis Chariot is just a cherry on top.

Polnareff literally stated the more we fight, the faster it gets.

kak is still gonna be putting on the pressure from the start and it's blatantly out of character for polnareff to lead with it before then, so kak is the more likely winner

I fail to see the reason that Kakyoin is putting the pressure when Polnareff can easily deflect all of his attacks within a instant with Chariot alongside how durable Chariot is. He still has his shoot the sword technique that Kakyoin has 0 knowledge on. Any Emerald Splashes thrown onto Polnareff will be deflected back at him within a whim, its that simple. The invisible traps can easily be sliced down to ribbons once Polnareff gets hit by them or he notices it.

Polnareff can survive long enough for him to use the Shooting of the Sword technique.

 

[StekFence]

their Stands are the same speed

Same relative Speed, in which case ye Pol blitzes I just realized

 

[StekFence]

It’s literally the same as Kak vs pol with speed unequal.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

And? That slash was enough to potentially heavily injure Diavolo.

still had absolutely no precision in it, there's no way he's gonna be deflecting an emerald splash like that

Then Polnareff just takes the attack, he literally takes the attack in Canon how is this remotely gonna kill Polnareff when he took it in canon alongside Chariot protecting him who can take hits from The Emerald Splash alongside his second wind aka armor off if he takes too much damage.

ok two things
1. ok wtf how is this not an mftl feat (just wondering why, since there's no way they missed this when rethinking his speed tier)
2. it was obv gonna be held back, unless polnareff has 8-C durability now and kakyoin was shooting with intent to kill him
3. chariot protecting him is pointless if he doesn't no where the [just realized I can't count] attack is coming from so that doesn't change anything

Why not? Anubis Chaka didn't get to deflect the sword shot because he didn't know about it and was shown to be on par with Chariot in speed and power if not even better. Then Anubis Khan adapted and even got stronger and faster to the point he managed to easily block the sword shot and he also had knowledge about it too.

actually chariot reacts to every last attack chaka throws at him, but anubis is so strong that chariot has to block each one or else he just dies. There's no actual moment where chariot isn't completely keeping up with his speed, which is weird at first but then you remember that anubis is literally just possessing normal people....until polnareff anubis blatantly outspeeds star platinum but ummmmm
hmmmm
maybe polnareff is just mftl or something....no, I'm gonna just give up before I look stupid. I'll think about this after the match ends or something tho I really felt like I was onto something for a moment

I fail to see the reason that Kakyoin is putting the pressure when Polnareff can easily deflect all of his attacks within a instant with Chariot alongside how durable Chariot is. He still has his shoot the sword technique that Kakyoin has 0 knowledge on. Any Emerald Splashes thrown onto Polnareff will be deflected back at him within a whim, its that simple. The invisible traps can easily be sliced down to ribbons once Polnareff gets hit by them or he notices it.

it's because he would force polnareff to keep deflecting all of that
basically just a crazy diamond vs bad company situation but kakyoin would attack from multiple directions

 

[Baken384]

ok two things
1. ok wtf how is this not an mftl feat (just wondering why, since there's no way they missed this when rethinking his speed tier)
2. it was obv gonna be held back, unless polnareff has 8-C durability now and kakyoin was shooting with intent to kill him
3. chariot protecting him is pointless if he doesn't no where the [just realized I can't count] attack is coming from so that doesn't change anything

Held back..? How does Kakyoin hold back his Emerald Splash, I don't know.
Chariot Protecting him is still there because you are acting like Hierophant Green will set up a 360 degree attack even though he remotely cant with Polnareff constantly pressuring him.

actually chariot reacts to every last attack chaka throws at him, but anubis is so strong that chariot has to block each one or else he just dies. There's no actual moment where chariot isn't completely keeping up with his speed, which is weird at first but then you remember that anubis is literally just possessing normal people....until polnareff anubis blatantly outspeeds star platinum but ummmmm
hmmmm
maybe polnareff is just mftl or something....no, I'm gonna just give up before I look stupid. I'll think about this after the match ends or something tho I really felt like I was onto something for a moment

Dude you are literally ignoring this statement

The more we fight, the faster it gets. That's literally clear implication that it was becoming faster and faster than Chariot as they fight.

Anubis was getting stronger AND faster, unless you will say something like "uh anubis got stronger in that very moment" which is kinda lame because if Chariot was indeed faster he could have just blitzed Anubis right there, slashing him in vulnerable places, but no, Anubis blocked that shit head on.
So yes, Anubis Khan or Anubis Polnareff are MFTL by blatantly ******** on Chariot.

it's because he would force polnareff to keep deflecting all of that
basically just a crazy diamond vs bad company situation but kakyoin would attack from multiple directions

And I wonder where he will deflect those emerald splashes? He won't just deflect them to the air or some shit, HE WOULD DEFLECT THAT BACK TO KAKYOIN. Using his projectiles against him.
So its Crazy Diamond vs Bad Company but Crazy Diamond is deflecting the bullets back onto Keicho instead of deflecting them somewhere else. Kakyoin attacking from multiple directions is not even plausible because he has to set that shit up in the first place which would be difficult with Polnareff constantly pressuring him.

Polnareff can literally have Chariot lift him and throw him to Kakyoin to close the gap, if a crippled ass chariot managed to lift Polnareff and his wheelchair at the same time and throw him into the air, then throwing Polnareff should be easy.

Don't forget the shoot sword still exists literally Polnareff will do that first before Kakyoin can even set up huge ass traps.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Held back..? How does Kakyoin hold back his Emerald Splash, I don't know.
Chariot Protecting him is still there because you are acting like Hierophant Green will set up a 360 degree attack even though he remotely cant with Polnareff constantly pressuring him.

sorry but you can't pressure somebody using a sword from the other side of the room
and I don't think it's on me to prove that he can hold back his attack

Dude you are literally ignoring this statement

The more we fight, the faster it gets. That's literally clear implication that it was becoming faster and faster than Chariot as they fight.

Anubis was getting stronger AND faster, unless you will say something like "uh anubis got stronger in that very moment" which is kinda lame because if Chariot was indeed faster he could have just blitzed Anubis right there, slashing him in vulnerable places, but no, Anubis blocked that shit head on.
So yes, Anubis Khan or Anubis Polnareff are MFTL by blatantly ******** on Chariot.

I mean you could argue that base Polnareff is mftl cause
the top statement just means he gets faster, it doesn't actually show anything useable for scaling and
the 2nd one could be explained by mftl Polnareff, since we already know that pol has superhuman characteristics and mftl reactions, as opposed to just some random guys being sped up, and each guy would technically be starting off with a different speed that would then increase over time
all I'm saying is, there's absolutely 0 proof of chaka or khan anubis versions being mftl as opposed to just being very strong, while the one that actually does have that scaling is polnareff
even polnareff sorta blitzed chaka by dodging his attacks without the use of chariot at the start of the fight, and only brought chariot out when he started abusing his selective intangibility more so that he could strike without being struck back
I mean there's gonna be some more argument about this point being brought up in the middle of a vs thread but I mean I'm just saying the scaling isn't there, especially since we already know his abilities change depending on each person

And I wonder where he will deflect those emerald splashes? He won't just deflect them to the air or some shit, HE WOULD DEFLECT THAT BACK TO KAKYOIN. Using his projectiles against him.
So its Crazy Diamond vs Bad Company but Crazy Diamond is deflecting the bullets back onto Keicho instead of deflecting them somewhere else. Kakyoin attacking from multiple directions is not even plausible because he has to set that shit up in the first place which would be difficult with Polnareff constantly pressuring him.

Polnareff can literally have Chariot lift him and throw him to Kakyoin to close the gap, if a crippled ass chariot managed to lift Polnareff and his wheelchair at the same time and throw him into the air, then throwing Polnareff should be easy.

Don't forget the shoot sword still exists literally Polnareff will do that first before Kakyoin can even set up huge ass traps.

ok well correct me if I'm wrong but his splash being deflected back at him is something that has never happened, even when jotaro did it to him it kinda just disappeared, as well as when he just shot freely in joseph's brain it just disappeared and didn't break everything
even so though, his tentacles move pretty fast as seen when he literally tags the fly, so setting it up would take like no time at all
actually about that, I feel like turning this vs thread into a kakyoin mftl crt but I'm too lazy to do it and I'm typing this at like midnight rn idk what I'm doing
sword shoot is confirmed to be a complete super secret last resort so him using it that early is out of the question

 

[ZillertheBucko]

idk man I feel like I'm arguing in youtube comments rn the way I just can't agree on these speed tiers

 

[Baken384]

sorry but you can't pressure somebody using a sword from the other side of the room
and I don't think it's on me to prove that he can hold back his attack

Pressuring with the Emerald Splashes shot at Polnareff, deflecting it back. I don't know how Kakyoin would even pressure Polnareff with him being able to cut through all his shit within an instant.

I mean you could argue that base Polnareff is mftl cause
the top statement just means he gets faster, it doesn't actually show anything useable for scaling and
the 2nd one could be explained by mftl Polnareff, since we already know that pol has superhuman characteristics and mftl reactions, as opposed to just some random guys being sped up, and each guy would technically be starting off with a different speed that would then increase over time
all I'm saying is, there's absolutely 0 proof of chaka or khan anubis versions being mftl as opposed to just being very strong, while the one that actually does have that scaling is polnareff
even polnareff sorta blitzed chaka by dodging his attacks without the use of chariot at the start of the fight, and only brought chariot out when he started abusing his selective intangibility more so that he could strike without being struck back
I mean there's gonna be some more argument about this point being brought up in the middle of a vs thread but I mean I'm just saying the scaling isn't there, especially since we already know his abilities change depending on each person

What the **** are you talking about..? Anubis can become stronger and faster and has shown to be faster than Polnareff by pressuring him, he mentions about strength but its been shown that it got faster when it reacted to the Sword Shot and blocked it. It's literally been shown to become faster and stronger when a holding back Jotaro was being pressured due to it becoming faster. Polnareff also didn't blitz Chaka, if he did, Chaka couldn't have escaped him from the get go but instead Chaka was hanging in there and was obviously adapting to Polnareff and Chariot.

Literally Polnareff, the guy with the MFTL Stand ****** told Jotaro to run because he thought Jotaro was about to get CLAPPED there

If Chariot was faster he could have just intercepted Khan there or some shit but no because he was totally unmatched.

ok well correct me if I'm wrong but his splash being deflected back at him is something that has never happened, even when jotaro did it to him it kinda just disappeared, as well as when he just shot freely in joseph's brain it just disappeared and didn't break everything
even so though, his tentacles move pretty fast as seen when he literally tags the fly, so setting it up would take like no time at all

He can deflect the splash when Dio deflected them into the air (When Kakyoin used HG to go to Senator's car to shoot dio with the ES) Chariot can easily deflect by the sheer fact it deflected Avdol's flames to the point he made a fire clock or carved a statue that looked like Magician's Red.

sword shoot is confirmed to be a complete super secret last resort so him using it that early is out of the question

Dude, he literally busted that out on a whim when he felt pressured by Anubis, I'm pretty sure if Kakyoin is gonna range bullshit Polnareff here, then him busting out the sword shoot is a likely tactic.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Pressuring with the Emerald Splashes shot at Polnareff, deflecting it back. I don't know how Kakyoin would even pressure Polnareff with him being able to cut through all his shit within an instant.

even if the splashes themselves are relativistic according to his profile, there are just gonna be hundreds of them being shot at once, it's not like he's blocking a single relativistic bullet. That's why he was able to keep Dio in one place for a while with it.

What the **** are you talking about..? Anubis can become stronger and faster and has shown to be faster than Polnareff by pressuring him, he mentions about strength but its been shown that it got faster when it reacted to the Sword Shot and blocked it. It's literally been shown to become faster and stronger when a holding back Jotaro was being pressured due to it becoming faster. Polnareff also didn't blitz Chaka, if he did, Chaka couldn't have escaped him from the get go but instead Chaka was hanging in there and was obviously adapting to Polnareff and Chariot.

Literally Polnareff, the guy with the MFTL Stand ****** told Jotaro to run because he thought Jotaro was about to get CLAPPED there

If Chariot was faster he could have just intercepted Khan there or some shit but no because he was totally unmatched.

1. At the start of the fight Polnareff is casually dodging every single swing of the sword and he himself decides that he needs to keep his distance, and after that chaka anubis decides to go behind pillars and starts attacking him from somewhere he can't reach. He then proceeds to block literally every attack after that, but the reason it doesn't work has nothing to do with speed, it just seems like he was overpowered physically. And then he hides for the rest of the fight until getting hit by the sword shot. Nothing suggests that he was mftl in this fight, and there's nothing to suggest shooting the sword is mftl either
2. At the time of the image you sent polnareff literally lost his sword's blade so he couldn't do shit about it, and the implication here is that Jotaro can run at mftl speeds. Regardless, Khan did block a single attack from chariot in the fight but that doesn't mean his sword shot is mftl, since anubis deflected it pretty easily in round two. You can't even say he saw it coming, because if he knew it was gnna be shot he still actually had to move fast enough to block it after it had already been shot at.
don't you think he'd use this ability at least a tiny bit more often if it was mftl, but he has to rely on trickshots and stuff instead of just directly attacking with it?

He can deflect the splash when Dio deflected them into the air (When Kakyoin used HG to go to Senator's car to shoot dio with the ES) Chariot can easily deflect by the sheer fact it deflected Avdol's flames to the point he made a fire clock or carved a statue that looked like Magician's Red.

he was like two inches away from dio at the time so that's not really inconsistent. The match isn't starting with chariot being right next to kakyoin

Dude, he literally busted that out on a whim when he felt pressured by Anubis, I'm pretty sure if Kakyoin is gonna range bullshit Polnareff here, then him busting out the sword shoot is a likely tactic.

The last resort statement is still there regardless of if it would technically be a good idea
+ the sword shot speed still doesn't scale to anything until someone can calc the speed of it when he shot it off the pillar

 

[Baken384]

even if the splashes themselves are relativistic according to his profile, there are just gonna be hundreds of them being shot at once, it's not like he's blocking a single relativistic bullet. That's why he was able to keep Dio in one place for a while with it.

Dude a hundred relativistic bullets are easy talk when Chariot did a casual FTL+ feat.

1. At the start of the fight Polnareff is casually dodging every single swing of the sword and he himself decides that he needs to keep his distance, and after that chaka anubis decides to go behind pillars and starts attacking him from somewhere he can't reach. He then proceeds to block literally every attack after that, but the reason it doesn't work has nothing to do with speed, it just seems like he was overpowered physically.

Dude Anubis literally contended with Chariot, how could you not understand that? Anubis Khan was literally pressuring Chariot, if Chariot was simply faster why couldn't he literally shit on Anubis Khan before he would even overpower him? He can't because he cant outspeeds him.

Nothing suggests that he was mftl in this fight, and there's nothing to suggest shooting the sword is mftl either

Anubis is literally suggested to be MFTL the moment it was putting pressure onto Polnareff and Chariot couldn't do shit, if it was simply faster he could have destroyed Anubis before he overpowered him. That is MFTL scaling because Anubis was contending with Chariot who is MFTL.

The shooting of the sword is MFTL because Anubis Chaka has shown to be comparable to Chariot who is MFTL as shown when it was literally contending with Chariot's slashes, I do not give a **** if Anubis was also overpowering Chariot, he was blatantly also contending with those slashes and couldn't literally block the shooting of the sword.

2. At the time of the image you sent polnareff literally lost his sword's blade so he couldn't do shit about it, and the implication here is that Jotaro can run at mftl speeds.

Dude, it does not change the fact that Polnareff, who was deadass RIGHT BESIDE JOTARO told him to get the **** away implying that he thought Star Platinum, who is straight on faster than Chariot, couldn't catch that blade. If Chariot here was faster, why the **** couldn't he intercept it?

Khan did block a single attack from chariot in the fight but that doesn't mean his sword shot is mftl, since anubis deflected it pretty easily in round two. You can't even say he saw it coming, because if he knew it was gnna be shot he still actually had to move fast enough to block it after it had already been shot at.
don't you think he'd use this ability at least a tiny bit more often if it was mftl, but he has to rely on trickshots and stuff instead of just directly attacking with it?

Khan did not just block a single attack? He was straight on taking on Chariot's slashes, contending with Chariot's slashes and was slowly overpowering him. Anubis literally has the power to become faster and stronger, why are we not assuming he is not becoming faster and stronger here? Because he just stated he is just getting stronger? What the hell? Anubis Khan did somethin that Anubis Chaka (as i stated was on par with Chariot) and was blocking the shooting of the sword tactic because not only he had MEMORIZED IT (Kakyoin does not know this technique) he had reacted and blocked it accordingly (SPEED FEAT)

That is literally basic ass rudimentary scaling between the characters, Anubis is FTL for the sheer fact it was contending with a Polnareff who wasn't going easy anymore because he was shocked at his performance to the point that Anubis started to contend with Silver Chariot. If Anubis was not FTL, he could have just straight on landed a thousand stabs onto Anubis' face but instead Anubis had enough speed to block slashes from Chariot and apply pressure onto him.

he was like two inches away from dio at the time so that's not really inconsistent. The match isn't starting with chariot being right next to kakyoin

And? What is stopping Chariot from literally deflecting the emerald splashes back, does the emerald splashes suddenly disappear for whatever reason? That's weird.

The last resort statement is still there regardless of if it would technically be a good idea
+ the sword shot speed still doesn't scale to anything until someone can calc the speed of it when he shot it off the pillar

I literally stated why the sword shoot is part of the FTL squad. No one needs to calc the speed when Anubis Chaka (Who was contending with Chariot) got hit by this attack.