JoJo Stand User Bracket Round 2 Match 2 (Kakyoin vs Polnareff) (6-6-0)

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Alright, I should probably think this over better, tbh

I do think that SC can deflect Emerald Splash without armor, given SC would then be several times faster than HG's emeralds

I do think, as well, that a 20 Meter Emerald Splash would be very troublesome if Kakyoin decides to use it, in that DIO needed to stop time in order to counter it

I also imagine that SC shooting the rapier would probably win the battle for Polnareff, but it's also possible that it could be intercepted by HG

Kakyoin can also be a coward ovo run away with HG and continue to snipe

Kakyoin wins more times than not, especially given that he has the better trump card in 20m ES

Consider my vote changed

 

[ZillertheBucko]

not to mention that the world's speed should upscale from no armor chariot too

 

[StekFence]

I don't see why Silver Chariot couldn't deflect the emerald splash, tbh, especially without armor

Polnareff FRA btw

because no one can deflect it. Duh?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

TRUE

 

[CBslayeR]

and number 4 can't be dismissed via "out of character" since obviously their strategies change depending on the opponent, it's not like he was gonna try and sneak up against death thirteen or
wait actually he kinda did do that

you voting Kak?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

you voting Kak?

yeah, kak for reasons listed

 

[ZillertheBucko]

would anybody be kind enough to
change their vote to kakyoin?

 

[Nierre]

No.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

No.

but
w h y

 

[ZillertheBucko]

ok give me one good reason why kakyoin isn't gonna just run away, shoot shit at him, and set up a web
and could just do what he did against tower of gray to compensate for speed differnece (if he amps it with armor off)

 

[Nierre]

No.

 

[Arkenis]

I did say kak dude got this

 

[StekFence]

ok give me one good reason why kakyoin isn't gonna just run away, shoot shit at him, and set up a web
and could just do what he did against tower of gray to compensate for speed differnece (if he amps it with armor off)

Because running is what gets you shot by a stand precise enough to shortly keep up with sp.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Because running is what gets you shot by a stand precise enough to shortly keep up with sp.

if kakyoin keeps a distance, dodging one shot by chariot will not be very difficult

 

[StekFence]

If he runs, he will be shot. Chariot moves faster than kakyoin runs, and kakyoin doesn’t even know pol can do that, and his back is presumably turned. On top of this, Pol does this attack on an enemy who is being troublesome to hit, like Kak is attempting. also, the attack doesn’t even need to be a killing blow. Hitting kak in the arm or leg is enough to give polnareff a critical advantage.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Does that attack even have enough power to affect stands instead of just humans? If kakyoin just blocks it or uses emerald splash or something like that to counter it then there’s no reason it would actually be very effective

 

[StekFence]

its a sharp point that comes from a stand. Blocking it with a stand, or with your real arms, will suck. A lot.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

cool but its best feat is just beating humans (and it didn't even completely go through chaka's neck) so I think there's something you have to prove here

 

[StekFence]

cool but its best feat is just beating humans (and it didn't even completely go through chaka's neck) so I think there's something you have to prove here

Anubis amplifies those he possess, according to his profile.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

hmmm interesting
but it's still only a single win con

 

[Baken384]

I'd vote for Polnareff here only if he started off angry here.

Polnareff's Anger increased Chariot's range to whatever it is but it was roaming around the room where he fought Vanilla Ice so the 15 meter starting distance shouldn't be that high. Include the fact this rage amp increases Chariot's Strength and Speed which is potent enough that Vanilla Ice had to mention how fast he is going, this essentially allows him to blitz and shit on Kakyoin with two slices at that point since Hierophant has small building level durability. I don't know if it increases durability though but you get the picture.

Also enraged Polnareff who was by the way already heavily injured from Cream's attacks as stated in the stamina section "Half of his foot, half his hand and his thigh all being consumed by Cream's void on top of minor damage like a skinned cheek and elbow as well as a presumably fractured arm" still managed to blitz and break Cream's neck. I'm pretty sure he can take a few emerald splashes and still fight, hell he can probably deflect it similar to how he was deflecting Avdol's flames. It's precision is nothing to gloss over.

I doubt Kakyoin even has time to set up his webs or the 20 meter emerald splash when Polnareff is constantly pressuring him and is within his sights. He even has that shooting of the sword technique which Kakyoin does not even know about to possibly pull trick maneuvers such as its ricocheting properties.

This is not even taking consideration to Chariot's Armor Off ability which would allow him to blitz Kakyoin no matter what once Enraged Chariot gets hold of him at lease once, though the durability reduction could be a disadvantage if Polnareff was not careful.

1. each emerald splash launches a ton of emeralds, not just a single hol horse bullet

Chariot's precision and its rage amp allows him to easily deflect it, he would fodderize it like how Dio fodderized the emerald splash.

2. there's no reason that polnareff should be able to get into range anyways

Rage Amp increases the range of chariot, allowing him to tag Kakyoin much more easier, he just needs to be near Kakyoin by 10 meters or something and its over. How fast is Kakyoin's movement speed without his stand anyway? Polnareff is Peak human since he outran Enya who was stated to be faster than Flo-Jo (Unless movement speed is equalized then oof) also his sword shooting technique is also there.

3. 20 meter emerald splash trap

Yeah if he can even set it up in the first place with Polnareff constantly pressuring him.

4. Kakyoin could try using stealth at some point in the fight like he does vs jotaro at first

That's assuming Polnareff would even lose sight of Kakyoin in the first place.

and could just do what he did against tower of gray to compensate for speed differnece (if he amps it with armor off)

Do what? Keep shooting emerald splashes onto Polnareff which Chariot can easily deflect back? The difference between the tower of gray fight and this one is Tower of Gray was dodging those attacks, not deflecting them back to Kakyoin, which gives enough time for Kakyoin to stall out and set up his traps, I don't think he can set up any traps if his emerald splashes keeps getting deflected back to him.

If Polnareff does not start off angry here, then he is at a disadvantage with that 15 meter starting range but maybe he could still manage? I don't know, but I do know an enraged Polnareff can take this.

 

[CBslayeR]

I'd vote for Polnareff here only if he started off angry here.

Polnareff's Anger increased Chariot's range to whatever it is but it was roaming around the room where he fought Vanilla Ice so the 15 meter starting distance shouldn't be that high. Include the fact this rage amp increases Chariot's Strength and Speed which is potent enough that Vanilla Ice had to mention how fast he is going, this essentially allows him to blitz and shit on Kakyoin with two slices at that point since Hierophant has small building level durability. I don't know if it increases durability though but you get the picture.

Also enraged Polnareff who was by the way already heavily injured from Cream's attacks as stated in the stamina section "Half of his foot, half his hand and his thigh all being consumed by Cream's void on top of minor damage like a skinned cheek and elbow as well as a presumably fractured arm" still managed to blitz and break Cream's neck. I'm pretty sure he can take a few emerald splashes and still fight, hell he can probably deflect it similar to how he was deflecting Avdol's flames. It's precision is nothing to gloss over.

I doubt Kakyoin even has time to set up his webs or the 20 meter emerald splash when Polnareff is constantly pressuring him and is within his sights. He even has that shooting of the sword technique which Kakyoin does not even know about to possibly pull trick maneuvers such as its ricocheting properties.

This is not even taking consideration to Chariot's Armor Off ability which would allow him to blitz Kakyoin no matter what once Enraged Chariot gets hold of him at lease once, though the durability reduction could be a disadvantage if Polnareff was not careful.


Chariot's precision and its rage amp allows him to easily deflect it, he would fodderize it like how Dio fodderized the emerald splash.

Rage Amp increases the range of chariot, allowing him to tag Kakyoin much more easier, he just needs to be near Kakyoin by 10 meters or something and its over. How fast is Kakyoin's movement speed without his stand anyway? Polnareff is Peak human since he outran Enya who was stated to be faster than Flo-Jo (Unless movement speed is equalized then oof) also his sword shooting technique is also there.

Yeah if he can even set it up in the first place with Polnareff constantly pressuring him.

That's assuming Polnareff would even lose sight of Kakyoin in the first place.

Do what? Keep shooting emerald splashes onto Polnareff which Chariot can easily deflect back? The difference between the tower of gray fight and this one is Tower of Gray was dodging those attacks, not deflecting them back to Kakyoin, which gives enough time for Kakyoin to stall out and set up his traps, I don't think he can set up any traps if his emerald splashes keeps getting deflected back to him.

If Polnareff does not start off angry here, then he is at a disadvantage with that 15 meter starting range but maybe he could still manage? I don't know, but I do know an enraged Polnareff can take this.

Who are you voting for?

 

[Baken384]

Who are you voting for?

does polnareff start off angry, if so then polnareff, if not then ima not vote since idk

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Easy
Kakyoin literally ran from Dio with his web swinging, so that’s not an issue (and speed is equalized)
And deflecting it’s is going to be very difficult because Avdol usually launches not many fireballs, which are way easier for chariot to manipulate because well, fire is more of a gas
Emerald splash always launches a shit ton of attacks at once
And dio still was hit by a few of the attacks anyways. Also range doesn’t matter much anyways since the closer they are the harder it will be for Polnareff to react to them
Also Hierophant’s speed and precision is still comparable to chariot’s, since he did hit tower of gray, the most agile and tiny stand, while it was moving
Idk what else to say since most of your argument relies on Kakyoin not just running away, since web slinging is perfectly in-character, not to mention, if you recall the lovers fight then Kakyoin still can restrict his movement with his tentacle leg thingies too

 

[Baken384]

Kakyoin literally ran from Dio with his web swinging, so that’s not an issue (and speed is equalized)

Chariot's speed and rage amps which could increase Chariot's Range to the point Chariot could bounce around a room that's 15m wide and 60 meters long while Polnareff himself is in the middle is still a thing to cross that range. Hell Chariot can probably throw Polnareff to Kakyoin similar to the thing he did in the Diavolo fight and close that range easily if he struggles to find a way to close that range. If he has no way to get close to Kakyoin then that technique is a last resort.

And deflecting it’s is going to be very difficult because Avdol usually launches not many fireballs, which are way easier for chariot to manipulate because well, fire is more of a gas
Emerald splash always launches a shit ton of attacks at once

Dude, Dio literally deflected a shitton of them casually unless Dio (without The World's assitance) has superior precision to Silver Chariot. Either way Chariot has the precision to deflect it and if you include the speed amp Chariot such as armor off or being angry, deflecting it should be easy as hell. Even if he gets hit, it's not like Chariot would get heavily injured by the emerald splash.

And dio still was hit by a few of the attacks anyways.

Yeah to the shoulder if i recall and that's about it.

Also range doesn’t matter much anyways since the closer they are the harder it will be for Polnareff to react to them

What do you mean by this? The closer Polnareff is, the harder it is to react to what? The emerald splash he could easily slash out of the way with Chariot which could be made easier with its speed amps with armor off and rage?
At this point Armor Off is essentially Polnareff's second wind as shown in the battle against Avdol he got whipped by Crossfire Hurricane and Armor Off we go and Chariot should be tanky enough to take a lot of hits from the emerald splash and observe Kakyoin's moves before his armor breaks to blitz.

Also Hierophant’s speed and precision is still comparable to chariot’s, since he did hit tower of gray, the most agile and tiny stand, while it was moving

Does not matter he hit Tower of Gray because of a trap he made while he was casually dodging all of his emerald splashes so all eyes are on Hierophant Green also the speed is equalized and even if its not, Hierophant Green is just Relativistic compared to Chariot's MFTL. Chariot has two speed amps up his sleeve aka his armor off and rage mode to easily blitz and one shot.

if you recall the lovers fight then Kakyoin still can restrict his movement with his tentacle leg thingies too

Chariot easily cuts the tentacles to pieces.

 

[StekFence]

Kakyoin literally ran from Dio with his web swinging, so that’s not an issue (and speed is equalized)

Yeah, and dio had no choice but to either chase him, or let him get away. Pol has an option here, which is to shoot him

 

[StekFence]

Chariot has two speed amps up his sleeve aka his armor off and rage mode to easily blitz and one shot.

It’s kinda like Jotaros two rage amps, but with speed instead of ap

 

[Baken384]

It’s kinda like Jotaros two rage amps, but with speed instead of ap

Nah, Polnareff's rage amp actually increases his AP as well, he was struggling to break Vanilla Ice's neck earlier and when he was at his peak rage he literally snapped Vanilla Ice's neck and began blitzing and skewering him while also being injured as hell.

 

[Baken384]

Nah, Polnareff's rage amp actually increases his AP as well, he was struggling to break Vanilla Ice's neck earlier and when he was at his peak rage he literally snapped Vanilla Ice's neck and began blitzing and skewering him while also being injured as hell.

Either way he does not even need that amp, Chariot would literally one-two shot Hierophant Green.

 

[Baken384]

I'll be voting for Polnareff now
Polnareff

Advantages

• Has AP Advantage
• Has Speed Advantage thanks to amps
• Chariot is durable enough to survive Emerald Splashes and has its armor off technique once it breaks or something.
• Can deflect most of Kakyoin's moves such as Emerald Splash with its rapier and precision
• Has stat amps with rage and armor off
• Chariot can cross the range thanks to rage amp increasing range or Chariot throwing Polnareff to Kakyoin as a last resort
• Chariot can easily cut any tentacles Hierophant tries to use for attacking.
• Has good pain tolerance for hanging in there after taking major damage from Cream
• Can constantly pressure Kakyoin from doing his traps thanks to Chariot's range boost if he gets into range or deflecting the emerald splash back to Kakyoin
• Has the shooting of the sword ability which could ricochet off the walls, could be useful as a last ditch effort or sneak attack.
• Has superior stamina

Disadvantages

• Range disadvantage against Kakyoin
• If he uses armor off, he loses a good amount of durability
• If he misses his sword move, he is at a disadvantage.

Kakyoin

Advantages

• Could possibly keep himself out of range Polnareff's range with his web slinging
• A Genius
• Range advantage
• Still has the body puppetry thing

Disadvantages

• Main source of attack aka Emerald Splash can literally be deflected by Chariot
• Main source of attack aka Emerald Splash can't take down Chariot easily
• Tentacles can literally be turned to ribbons from Chariot's slices
• A Glass Cannon so Chariot can easily one-two shot Hierophant Green.
• Inferior Speed once Polnareff uses his amps
• Inferior Stamina
• Will literally get sliced once in close quarters
• Has to constantly be on the run from Polnareff which would make it hard to set up traps.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I will vote Kakyoin, kakyoin should have a easyer time sataing away from polnareff then Polnareff aproching, and isn't like he don't know how to counter faster oponents them himself(Tower of grey), and even all jojo caracters being strategists as f*ck, Kakyoin should be than Polnareff sinse in fights like against the hanged man he needed Kakyoin help to yhink a way to counter such a abiliity, not to mention that one of the biggest downsides of chariot is "Unless he takes off Silver Chariot's armor, he cannot see through the Stand, Chariot can't properly fight or attack an opponent Polnareff himself can't see." meaning that kakyoin should have an easier time to set traps with tentacles similar to how it was done against Tower of gray(just to remenber every one, whem H.G is his tentacles from the damage he is inflicted isn't reflected to Kakyoin) and Polnareff can be a rekles fighter a bunch of times and is quite suitable to be caught in traps(Most of his battles he fell into some kind of trap set by his opponent

voting the green donut

 

[Baken384]

Yeah, and dio had no choice but to either chase him, or let him get away. Pol has an option here, which is to shoot him

Or literally chase him down. Kakyoin would struggle to set up traps with Polnareff constantly chasing after his ass and if he does try attacking with tentacles then it gets sliced to pieces, if he tries to attack with Emerald Splash he deflects them back or blocks them away. It would be the game of cat and mouse and Polnareff can outlast Kakyoin here.

kakyoin should have a easyer time sataing away from polnareff then Polnareff aproching, and isn't like he don't know how to counter faster oponents them himself(Tower of grey)

Explained above how Polnareff can get close and Kakyoin taking down Tower Of Gray required some time and that fly was constantly dodging the emerald splashes, could Kakyoin set up his traps with Emerald Splashes being deflected right back at him? It might be possible thanks to Kakyoin being a genius, but it would be very hard.

even all jojo caracters being strategists as f*ck, Kakyoin should be than Polnareff sinse in fights like against the hanged man he needed Kakyoin help to yhink a way to counter such a abiliity

Yeah Kakyoin is the genius but Polnareff is still no slouch, he literally trained his stand for almost 10 years and is a seasoned sword fighter. He wouldn't get fooled that easily but still Polnareff is at a disadvantage in terms of smarts.

not to mention that one of the biggest downsides of chariot is "Unless he takes off Silver Chariot's armor, he cannot see through the Stand, Chariot can't properly fight or attack an opponent Polnareff himself can't see." meaning that kakyoin should have an easier time to set traps with tentacles similar to how it was done against Tower of gray(just to remenber every one, whem H.G is his tentacles from the damage he is inflicted isn't reflected to Kakyoin)

Yeah SBA has them in central park, where and when will he start putting down his traps? Would Hierophant Green just appear behind Polnareff or something? They were literally in an airplane, a closed space allowing Hierophant Green to just hide its tentacles under the seats. They are in Central Park, a more open place compared to a airplane. Polnareff should be able to see Kakyoin placing down his traps, hell he would probably cut down the tentacle traps Kakyoin lands while trying to chase him.
If Polnareff were to get caught in a trap or something, it's not like it would heavily injure him, his durability is At Least Building Level compared to just Building Level AP with emerald splash or Small Building AP with just Hierophant, allowing him to not take severe damage. Chariot still has his Rapier shooting technique which Kakyoin does not even know of which could give him the surprise attack to attack Kakyoin. Anubis Chaka who had already memorized Polnareff's techniques was still hit by this rapier technique since he did not know about it.

Polnareff can be a rekles fighter a bunch of times and is quite suitable to be caught in traps(Most of his battles he fell into some kind of trap set by his opponent

Fair point but as stated above Polnareff can get back at Kakyoin since Kakyoin has no way to do things such as blinding Polnareff's eyes or to deal with the stat advantages Polnareff has over him with the points I stated above. I could see Polnareff falling for one or two tricks but that won't be enough to take down or severely hurt Polnareff and we know Polnareff is one tough cookie.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Explained above how Polnareff can get close and Kakyoin taking down Tower Of Gray required some time and that fly was constantly dodging the emerald splashes, could Kakyoin set up his traps with Emerald Splashes being deflected right back at him? It might be possible thanks to Kakyoin being a genius, but it would be very hard.

Yeah SBA has them in central park, where and when will he start putting down his traps? Would Hierophant Green just appear behind Polnareff or something? They were literally in an airplane, a closed space allowing Hierophant Green to just hide its tentacles under the seats. They are in Central Park, a more open place compared to a airplane. Polnareff should be able to see Kakyoin placing down his traps, hell he would probably cut down the tentacle traps Kakyoin lands while trying to chase him.
If Polnareff were to get caught in a trap or something, it's not like it would heavily injure him, his durability is At Least Building Level compared to just Building Level AP with emerald splash or Small Building AP with just Hierophant, allowing him to not take severe damage. Chariot still has his Rapier shooting technique which Kakyoin does not even know of which could give him the surprise attack to attack Kakyoin. Anubis Chaka who had already memorized Polnareff's techniques was still hit by this rapier technique since he did not know about it.

how about use the grass to hide the tentacles and make hierphanton green shoot Polnareff body by behind? go around trees, from inside the water of lakes or just do like avdol and make It go under the ground

for the rest of your points. I can see you point of view, but I still think kakyon is a more likle winner here

 

[ZillertheBucko]

the only reason Polnareff might win is cause of him getting angry or him shooting the sword, both of which would be weird since
We have no context on what the fight is even about so why would he be that angry anyways, and the sword shooting is only a super last resort that only works if he gets the kill with first try or else he’s ****** for pretty much the rest of the fight
Polnareff still can’t deal with a 20 meter emerald splash
Avdol basically beat chariot by attacking him from where he couldn’t see, and kakyoin can basically replicate that by using the invisible emerald web or just other invisible body control attacks, it’d be pretty easy
Also I planned on sending this like an hour ago so I haven’t actually read the new arguments yet

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If it were possible then I’d be voting inconclusive but kakyoin is more realistically gonna win, since even in a life or death situation it’s not guaranteed that he will shoot the sword, and it’s not completely guaranteed that it will land

 

[Baken384]

how about use the grass to hide the tentacles and make hierphanton green shoot Polnareff body by behind? go around trees,

Going behind trees is useless with Polnareff just chasing him down. Kakyoin would still struggle to lay down with Polnareff's constant pressure for him to move around the battlefield. If Polnareff does get into a trap, what would happen next? Kakyoin shoots an emerald splash aka the only move to remotely damage Polnareff and Chariot to which Polnareff uses Chariot to easily deflect? Is he going to squeeze Polnareff to death with the tentacles? He can just slice the tentalces down. If Polnareff already has his amps such as his rage or armor off, he could easily slice the tentacle traps to ribbons before getting shot by the Emerald Splash. Either way Polnareff can't keep falling for these traps, he is still a competent fighter and his durability and stamina gives him enough time to figure out how to take down Kakyoin and to take note of his traps.

the only reason Polnareff might win is cause of him getting angry or him shooting the sword

Polnareff can deflect and block Kakyoin's main way of attacking and literally slices down his tentacles with ease such as armor off. He also has superior AP and Durability and can one or two shot Hierophant Green once he is in his range. Either way its valid wincons

We have no context on what the fight is even about so why would he be that angry anyways,

Either way, his stat amps of being angry is still within his toolkit, he could have shit like getting pissed over the fact Kakyoin keeps running.

Avdol basically beat chariot by attacking him from where he couldn’t see,

Yes, Avdol beat Chariot while using one of his strongest moves aka Crossfire Hurricane. At least Building Level Likely Building Level + (Avdol) vs Building Level (Kakyoin). I'm pretty sure Polnareff and Chariot won't take major damage from the emerald splash.

using the invisible emerald web or just other invisible body control attacks

Like literally can he even set that up with Polnareff trying to rush him down? Either way It's not sufficient enough to take down Chariot's durability, Polnareff should be able to adapt to these since in the profile it states "Shown be to a capable fighter and very versatile in a number of situations" He should be capable of adapting to whatever Kakyoin has to throw at him before Chariot fails on him, which would take a long time since Polnareff was still able to fight Vanilla ice after half of his foot, half his hand and his thigh was consumed by Cream.
Since body control attacks can be used even though Kakyoin does not use it that much, Polnareff still has his armor off mode to the point there's like a good amount of chariot afterimages to blitz or the sword shooting move which Kakyoin has 0 knowledge on, Anubis Chaka who memorized a lot of Chariot's moves and was about to shit on him still got siked by this move and lost.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Going behind trees is useless with Polnareff just chasing him down. Kakyoin would still struggle to lay down with Polnareff's constant pressure for him to move around the battlefield. If Polnareff does get into a trap, what would happen next? Kakyoin shoots an emerald splash aka the only move to remotely damage Polnareff and Chariot to which Polnareff uses Chariot to easily deflect? Is he going to squeeze Polnareff to death with the tentacles? He can just slice the tentalces down. If Polnareff already has his amps such as his rage or armor off, he could easily slice the tentacle traps to ribbons before getting shot by the Emerald Splash. Either way Polnareff can't keep falling for these traps, he is still a competent fighter and his durability and stamina gives him enough time to figure out how to take down Kakyoin and to take note of his traps.

you are forgeting that they can hit the user It self as well, Silver chariot is a astan that has problens deling with multiple things a the smae time, kakyoin just needs to distract S.C enough to make a surprise atack directly into Polnareff, and just turns out that this a way kakyoin normaly fights

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Setting the web up should scale to his speed since it’s just body control

 

[CBslayeR]

This is the most debatable match since Johnny vs Giorno and Kira vs Mista lol

 

[ZillertheBucko]

alternate ending: inconclusive option is chosen and then polnareff and kakyoin double team the next round's fighter