Johnny Test vs Junko Enoshima (Part 2)

[Eden_Warlock99]

Sakura should also be leagues above Mikado Shinsen in terms of skill, who could mimic Uzuchi's fighting style who's proficient in Karate, Kendo, Judo, Kyuudou, Aikido, Iai, and Naginata

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So there are very noticeable win cons both of these combatants have:

For Johnny, he has the skill to keep up with Junko and the Monokumas here. However, he'll have to utilize his hax here in order to win, as this fight will hardly ever come down to a game of fisticuffs. Luckily, his Time fuckery and Supernatural Luck will help him a lot here. His Time Stop will basically turn the tides of the fight anytime he uses it, and I already explained how potent his Good Luck Charm is. He can potentially use his SI to convince the Monokumas to stop attacking him, and he can use his Air Manipulation to keep his distance from the Monokumas. Even if the Monokumas were somehow able to land a hit on the kid, they're going to have to deal with his deceivingly tanky body (Toon Force, Regen (albeit inconsistent), Elasticity, Immense Pain Tolerance). So even if the Monokumas or Junko are able to land hits on Johnny, it's going to be tough asf to take him down.

For Junko, she'll have to utilize her far superior intelligence, as well as her SI to beat Johnny here. Since Junko will basically have full knowledge of Johnny here, she'll have a much easier time figuring out how to counter Johnny's hax. She'll know that in order to trump Johnny's Time Stop, she'll have to make any sort of contact with him so she doesn't get time stopped, and she'll also realize that she'll need to find a way to take the Good Luck Charm off of Johnny, so she can use her SI to convince him to take it off and even the playing field, so @Bruhtelho's argument of Junko having no counter for Johnny's Time Stop and Supernatural Luck don't hold much weight.

So Johnny has the advantage in having more potent hax that can end the fight instantly (Time Stop and Supernatural Luck are just scratching the surface), and Junko has the intelligence, prior knowledge, and SI to find ways to get rid of Johnny's most potent hax.

So either Johnny uses his hax to win, or Junko SI's her way to victory, and it's going to be extremely hard to decide who's going to pull their win cons off first, as the stuff I mentioned is something both characters wouldn't hesitate to do in character.

I'm honestly leaning towards an Incon, which is kinda lame, but understandable at the end of the day.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Why would Junko need to remove the Good Luck Charm to convince Johnny?

 

[Pikaman]

There's more stuff that happens in the episode, too.

Like there were dogs that were chasing him and Dukey, but the dogs ran into some glass structure.

The good luck charm also helped Johnny with his basketball skills, which are ******* horrendous. He legit tried aiming it at the basket, but he ended up hitting a window instead.

Also, the good luck charm gives bad luck, too.

For an example, the delivery guy driving the truck got fired for losing all of the "goodies" that were in the truck, so if Junko (or Monokuma in this case) tries attacking Johnny, he or she would end up receiving bad luck in exchange for Johnny receiving good luck.

This isn’t exactly causing a landslide by kicking a pebble on a hill or having a baseball ricochet and strike out every single bolt and nail in a building so that it collapses

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Sakura should also be leagues above Mikado Shinsen in terms of skill, who could mimic Uzuchi's fighting style who's proficient in Karate, Kendo, Judo, Kyuudou, Aikido, Iai, and Naginata

Mf this shit don't matter.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Even if the Monokumas were somehow able to land a hit on the kid, they're going to have to deal with his deceivingly tanky body (Toon Force, Regen (albeit inconsistent), Elasticity, Immense Pain Tolerance). So even if the Monokumas or Junko are able to land hits on Johnny, it's going to be tough asf to take him down.

Monokuma/Junko hold a massive AP and durability advantage above Johnny being 173.9399522 Kilotons to 50.3 kilotons so monokumas punches are gonna hurt alongside piercing damage with his claws.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Why would Junko need to remove the Good Luck Charm to convince Johnny?

She convinces Johnny to take off the Good Luck Charm with her SI. Johnny takes it off, which evens the playing field.

 

[Bruhtelho]

She convinces Johnny to take off the Good Luck Charm with her SI. Johnny takes it off, which evens the playing field.

if shes already talking to Johnny, she isn't gonna use it to convince him to take it off and just go straight for ending the fight by causing him to become suicidal.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Monokuma/Junko hold a massive AP and durability advantage above Johnny being 173.9399522 Kilotons to 50.3 kilotons so monokumas punches are gonna hurt alongside piercing damage with his claws.

A 3.5x AP advantage is nowhere near one shot territory, so I wouldn't consider it "massive". I'd consider it significant, though I'll still say that Johnny's Toon Force and Pain Tolerance will help him.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

if shes already talking to Johnny, she isn't gonna use it to convince him to take it off and just go straight for ending the fight by causing him to become suicidal.

That's fair.

 

[Pikaman]

She convinces Johnny to take off the Good Luck Charm with her SI. Johnny takes it off, which evens the playing field.

She doesn’t need to though, she’s operated around luck leagues above Johnny’s before without it much getting in her way

 

[RandomGuy2345]

if shes already talking to Johnny, she isn't gonna use it to convince him to take it off and just go straight for ending the fight by causing him to become suicidal.

So after reading my mini essay, do you think it's an Incon or not?

Both of them have many ways to end the fight instantly.

 

[Bruhtelho]

A 3.5x AP advantage is nowhere near one shot territory, so I wouldn't consider it "massive". I'd consider it significant, though I'll still say that Johnny's Toon Force and Pain Tolerance will help him.

a value they massively upscale from since they scale to Sakura who could is leagues above Genocider Syo in AP.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

if shes already talking to Johnny, she isn't gonna use it to convince him to take it off and just go straight for ending the fight by causing him to become suicidal.

Johnny after this fight:

 

[RandomGuy2345]

She doesn’t need to though, she’s operated around luck leagues above Johnny’s before without it much getting in her way

The problem is that the Good Luck Charm would end up giving Junko (or the Monokumas) bad luck in exchange for giving Johnny good luck, so that argument kinda falls apart.

How are they going to land a hit when they're constantly receiving bad luck whenever they actually try landing hits?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

a value they massively upscale from since they scale to Sakura who could is leagues above Genocider Syo in AP.

Toon Force, Pain Tolerance, and hax still counter this.

 

[Bruhtelho]

So after reading my mini essay, do you think it's an Incon or not?

i'm more leaning towards Junko, her SI doesn't take very long to take affect so if she knows that Johnny has means of ending the fight in ways she can't prevent then she'll immediately go for causing him to fall into despair which she loves seeing in people.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

i'm more leaning towards Junko, her SI doesn't take very long to take affect so if she knows that Johnny has means of ending the fight in ways she can't prevent then she'll immediately go for causing him to fall into despair which she loves seeing in people.

But what's stopping Johnny from just time stopping Junko? She'll basically have 0 chance of using her SI.

 

[Bruhtelho]

How are they going to land a hit when they're constantly receiving bad luck whenever they actually try landing hits?

she'll try to land hits with Monokuma, realize she can't, and just do SI despair gg

 

[RandomGuy2345]

she'll try to land hits with Monokuma, realize she can't, and just do SI despair gg

And what's stopping Johnny from using his Time Stop hax from letting that happen?

 

[Pikaman]

The problem is that the Good Luck Charm would end up giving Junko (or the Monokumas) bad luck in exchange for giving Johnny good luck, so that argument kinda falls apart.

How are they going to land a hit when they're constantly receiving bad luck whenever they actually try landing hits?

Because Johnny’s showings of giving others bad luck aren’t on a good enough level to prove they can realistically hinder someone who has worked around dealing with extreme luck disadvantages. Nagito’s luck fodderises Johnny’s, and any ill effects it has on Junko and Monokuma will not be on a level that Nagito has not already subjected them to on a much grander scale. Being affected by bad luck isn’t really all that different to your opponent having the opposite

 

[Bruhtelho]

And what's stopping Johnny from using his Time Stop hax from letting that happen?

why would he think of doing that if he has no idea what she could do. if hes already fine with the supernatural luck then hes gonna get arrogant which is one of his weaknesses with it leaving him more then open to being talked with.

 

[Pikaman]

And what's stopping Johnny from using his Time Stop hax from letting that happen?

What gives Johnny incentive in character to stop time against someone trying to talk? Social Influencing is so useful because it’s sly and most people don’t have or put up protections against it, what imminent threat does he sense that tells him to stop time?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

What gives Johnny incentive in character to stop time against someone trying to talk? Social Influencing is so useful because it’s sly and most people don’t have or put up protections against it, what imminent threat does he sense that tells him to stop time?

I never said Johnny would use Time Stop while Junko's talking. I said that while the Monokumas are attacking, or when the Monokumas aren't attacking and Junko's thinking of a different plan, what's stopping Johnny from using his Time Stop?

And like you said, if Junko can easily bypass Johnny's luck, Johnny'll realize that and resort to his other hax, so it's Time Stop GG.

why would he think of doing that if he has no idea what she could do. if hes already fine with the supernatural luck then hes gonna get arrogant which is one of his weaknesses with it leaving him more then open to being talked with.

Johnny is the type of person who'd take the easy way out on any chance he's given. He's naturally a lazy kid who'd much rather do things the easier way instead of working/earning his shit. Why wouldn't he resort to Time Stop? Especially now that Pika's arguing that Junko can easily bypass Johnny's luck.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Johnny is the type of person who'd take the easy way out on any chance he's given. He's naturally a lazy kid who'd much rather do things the easier way instead of working/earning his shit

I can show proof for this too if y'all want.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Wouldn't he only use the Time Stop on Monokuma?

 

[Bruhtelho]

I never said Johnny would use Time Stop while Junko's talking. I said that while the Monokumas are attacking, or when the Monokumas aren't attacking and Junko's thinking of a different plan, what's stopping Johnny from using his Time Stop?

Because Monokuma isn't even gonna be able to hit him in the first place so he'll be in no real danger to actually pull it out and thats giving him the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't pull out one of the other inventions.

And like you said, if Junko can easily bypass Johnny's luck, Johnny'll realize that and resort to his other hax, so it's Time Stop GG.

she can't bypass it, she can predict it but she'll still get the downside of the bad luck well also not being able to actually hit johnny.

Johnny is the type of person who'd take the easy way out on any chance he's given. He's naturally a lazy kid who'd much rather do things the easier way instead of working/earning his shit. Why wouldn't he resort to Time Stop? Especially now that Pika's arguing that Junko can easily bypass Johnny's luck.

again its benefit of the doubt that he would pull out the time-stop instead of plenty of his other weapons. she can't bypass it but still predict it out that doesn't stop it from causing her bad luck or missing in the process.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Because Monokuma isn't even gonna be able to hit him in the first place so he'll be in no real danger to actually pull it out and thats giving him the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't pull out one of the other inventions.

she can't bypass it, she can predict it but she'll still get the downside of the bad luck well also not being able to actually hit johnny.

@Pikaman was arguing that Johnny's luck is far inferior the the luck the Dangan people have, so Junko would have little issue in dealing with it.

Also, if a swarm of Monokumas (keep in mind that Junko can control hundreds of them iirc) are coming at you, why wouldn't Johnny resort to using the one ability that will stop all of the Monokumas in their tracks? Aka, his Time Stop.

again its benefit of the doubt that he would pull out the time-stop instead of plenty of his other weapons. she can't bypass it but still predict it out that doesn't stop it from causing her bad luck or missing in the process.

Basically what I said above.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Junko is gonna know as soon as she sees Johnny everything he could possibly do and likely even predict when he would use them thats how insane her analytical abilities are, so if she knows this information she isn't exactly gonna let that happen and immediately go for SI since she'll know thats her only way of winning this battle.

 

[Bruhtelho]

Also, if a swarm of Monokumas (keep in mind that Junko can control hundreds of them iirc) are coming at you, why wouldn't Johnny resort to using the one ability that will stop all of the Monokumas in their tracks? Aka, his Time Stop.

she always starts with 1 Monokuma unless she feels the need to pull out the hundreds of them and given the level of precog that she has, I don't think she'll resort to that unless needed.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

@Pikaman was arguing that Johnny's luck is far inferior the the luck the Dangan people have, so Junko would have little issue in dealing with it.

Junko never actually fought mano a mano with Nagito, she just used her SI to combat his luck

 

[Bruhtelho]

@Pikaman was arguing that Johnny's luck is far inferior the the luck the Dangan people have, so Junko would have little issue in dealing with it.

She never fought against Nagito, she used her SI to bypass the luck he had so if she sees/knows Johnny's luck then shes immediately gonna go for the best option against it.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Junko is gonna know as soon as she sees Johnny everything he could possibly do and likely even predict when he would use them thats how insane her analytical abilities are, so if she knows this information she isn't exactly gonna let that happen and immediately go for SI since she'll know thats her only way of winning this battle.

And what's to say that Johnny won't try to end the fight as quickly as possible with the hax he has? Like I said, he never likes working/earning his shit, so he would automatically go for the easiest option(s) avaliable.

she always starts with 1 Monokuma unless she feels the need to pull out the hundreds of them and given the level of precog that she has, I don't think she'll resort to that unless needed.

It's going to take way more than 1 Monokuma though. I know that's for certain.

Junko never actually fought mano a mano with Nagito, she just used her SI to combat his luck

She never fought against Nagito, she used her SI to bypass the luck he had so if she sees/knows Johnny's luck then shes immediately gonna go for the best option against it.

Then that's quite literally her only way of circumventing that advantage, and like I said before, Johnny won't hesitate to go for the easiest option, so while his Supernatural Luck basically makes him untouchable, it's not going to win the fight for him, so I'm inclined to believe that it's 100% in character to use his Time Stop, as he won't hesitate to go for the easiest option available in order to win.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Y'all wouldn't be saying this if Johnny had his Bionic Arm and Black Hole.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Then that's quite literally her only way of circumventing that advantage, and like I said before, Johnny won't hesitate to go for the easiest option, so while his Supernatural Luck basically makes him untouchable, it's not going to win the fight for him, so I'm inclined to believe that it's 100% in character to use his Time Stop, as he won't hesitate to go for the easiest option available in order to win.

I mean,

What gives Johnny incentive in character to stop time against someone trying to talk? Social Influencing is so useful because it’s sly and most people don’t have or put up protections against it, what imminent threat does he sense that tells him to stop time?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Then that's quite literally her only way of circumventing that advantage, and like I said before, Johnny won't hesitate to go for the easiest option, so while his Supernatural Luck basically makes him untouchable, it's not going to win the fight for him, so I'm inclined to believe that it's 100% in character to use his Time Stop, as he won't hesitate to go for the easiest option available in order to win.

To elaborate, the Monokumas have an over 3x physical advantage on Johnny, so trying to fight H2H/CQC is a dumb idea, so Johnny'll have to resort to his hax in order to stop him in his tracks.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I mean,

I already said that Johnny wouldn't use his Time Stop when Junko's talking. I'm saying that Johnny won't hesitate to use his Time Stop off the bat due to the reasons I said above.

 

[Pikaman]

Y'all wouldn't be saying this if Johnny had his Bionic Arm and Black Hole.

The result genuinely wouldn’t change because Junko would just see them coming and SI him

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I don't see why he'd use his Time Stop when the Monokuma can't even hit him

 

[Bruhtelho]

It's going to take way more than 1 Monokuma though. I know that's for certain.

to do what? hit Johnny? she isn't gonna be trying to win through brute force cause thats not how Junko likes to do things.

And what's to say that Johnny won't try to end the fight as quickly as possible with the hax he has? Like I said, he never likes working/earning his shit, so he would automatically go for the easiest option(s) avaliable.

his life isn't gonna be in any danger as long as he has the supernatural luck so why would he feel the need to go for one of his strongest pieces of equipment right off the bat when he could use so many others to take out 1 lil monokuma such as blasting it with a laser gun, Turbo Time Rewinder to just straight up stop in place?

Then that's quite literally her only way of circumventing that advantage, and like I said before, Johnny won't hesitate to go for the easiest option, so while his Supernatural Luck basically makes him untouchable, it's not going to win the fight for him, so I'm inclined to believe that it's 100% in character to use his Time Stop, as he won't hesitate to go for the easiest option available in order to win.

an advantage shes used in the past against luck users

To elaborate, the Monokumas have an over 3x physical advantage on Johnny, so trying to fight H2H/CQC is a dumb idea, so Johnny'll have to resort to his hax in order to stop him in his tracks.

a 3x advantage you said doesn't mean much cause of Johnny's haxes.