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Speaking of 200%, @Arnoldstone18 is there a calc for 200% Hollow Purple, and isn't there one for the Hollow Purple Gojo used against Hanami

There probably is a calc for the latter that I’ve seen somewhere before, but idk if that’s still valid. The 200%? don’t think so. I’ll go look into both.
 
Original ≠ Previous
That's the issue

The issue with things of this nature and people superseding their previous "forms" and such is that "original" refers to their first state outside of any temporary changes to their strength or something.

Original means his regular self. Him in the 120% zone isn't his original self. Isn't even the regular level of cursed energy he outputs.

So for me, it won't work

Speaking of 200%, @Arnoldstone18 is there a calc for 200% Hollow Purple, and isn't there one for the Hollow Purple Gojo used against Hanami
Regarding the Hollow Purple part, for AP no. We can't use it for AP anymore since it's treated as void manip. (We did have a calc for its AP against Hanami tho. But it isn't used anymore for the reason mentioned previously)

In regards to the original thing; If someone unleashed 10x their usual power in their original body, and then either transformed or gained a completely new body, and someone stated "They're twice as strong as their original body/form", that would mean twice as strong as the body as it LAST was. Which was 10x above their usual power.

If they meant to say 200% stronger than his original power, then they could've easily said "200% that of his original strength" or "200% stronger than originally". That explicit mention of "form" makes it quite clear he's 200% stronger than he last was. Otherwise there would be no reason to mention "original form". And the fact they double down on original form when explaining their hand only further cements that for me.
 
A potential is a permanent “amp” right? Their latent power. So wouldn’t the original form be the new 120% potential?
 
A potential is a permanent “amp” right? Their latent power. So wouldn’t the original form be the new 120% potential?
That's what I figured. But even if it wasn't, it still makes most sense to argue distorted form is 3.6x stronger, because if it wasn't, then the transformation wouldn't even be 200% stronger than his original form. It would've only been less than 200% since his original form was 20% stronger than usual before he transformed.
 
Hmmm can't we have a possible rating for the x3.6, I don't think its a wank or really improbable
I think likely at the very least. Original simply means first. So you could word it as "Mahito is 3x stronger than his first form" which at the time was 20% stronger than usual (Though ig you could argue the 120% became his new 100%?). So it makes literally no sense to assume he's 200% stronger than his first/original power since that wasn't stated. To say it wouldn't include amps/unlocked potential requires an unsubstantiated assertion tbh. Because amps are in no way excluded from "original form" if said original form was already amped when they underwent said transformation.
 
A potential is a permanent “amp” right? Their latent power. So wouldn’t the original form be the new 120% potential?
yes i think, i remember theres a quote like "theres a different between a person who has experience black flash and those who dont"
 
I think likely at the very least. Original simply means first. So you could word it as "Mahito is 3x stronger than his first form" which at the time was 20% stronger than usual (Though ig you could argue the 120% became his new 100%?). So it makes literally no sense to assume he's 200% stronger than his first/original power since that wasn't stated. To say it wouldn't include amps/unlocked potential requires an unsubstantiated assertion tbh. Because amps are in no way excluded from "original form" if said original form was already amped when they underwent said transformation.
could it be 200% of his orginal self, and another 120% through black flash?
 
In regards to the original thing; If someone unleashed 10x their usual power in their original body, and then either transformed or gained a completely new body, and someone stated "They're twice as strong as their original body/form", that would mean twice as strong as the body as it LAST was. Which was 10x above their usual power.
No.
Again.
They would've said previous.

There is a difference between "original form" and "amped strength from original form". Absolutely nothing points to the latter, while everything points to at least the former.
If they meant to say 200% stronger than his original power, then they could've easily said "200% that of his original strength" or "200% stronger than originally". That explicit mention of "form" makes it quite clear he's 200% stronger than he last was. Otherwise there would be no reason to mention "original form". And the fact they double down on original form when explaining their hand only further cements that for me.
#1 I can use this same argument. If they wanted this to mean the 120%, they could've easily said "200% that of his previous strength", but they didn't.
The mention of form doesn't tie on all the addons to his regular strength.
#2 This is a different language. The meaning of form there could be different than the meaning of form traditionally
A potential is a permanent “amp” right? Their latent power. So wouldn’t the original form be the new 120% potential?
No. Because it says they "brought out 120% of their potential", implying it's not something that they just regularly reached.
That's what I figured. But even if it wasn't, it still makes most sense to argue distorted form is 3.6x stronger, because if it wasn't, then the transformation wouldn't even be 200% stronger than his original form. It would've only been less than 200% since his original form was 20% stronger than usual before he transformed.
I think likely at the very least. Original simply means first. So you could word it as "Mahito is 3x stronger than his first form" which at the time was 20% stronger than usual (Though ig you could argue the 120% became his new 100%?). So it makes literally no sense to assume he's 200% stronger than his first/original power since that wasn't stated. To say it wouldn't include amps/unlocked potential requires an unsubstantiated assertion tbh. Because amps are in no way excluded from "original form" if said original form was already amped when they underwent said transformation.
could it be 200% of his orginal self, and another 120% through black flash?
Did you just instantly forget that it ain't 200% stronger, but 200% of his strength level?
 
could it be 200% of his orginal self, and another 120% through black flash?
Black Flash is ^2.5, not 120%. That said, should we treat Black Flash as at least a 200% or 260% increase for being able to affect Mahito with the transformation page stating Itadori would've been ****** if he didn't land it?
 
Black Flash is ^2.5, not 120%. That said, should we treat Black Flash as at least a 200% or 260% increase for being able to affect Mahito with the transformation page stating Itadori would've been ****** if he didn't land it?
You don't give multipliers due to your amped technique harming someone else with a multiplier
Yuji alone in that key alone would be over 200% of his current strength, not scaleable to any other form of yuji or any other character
 
No.
Again.
They would've said previous.

There is a difference between "original form" and "amped strength from original form". Absolutely nothing points to the latter, while everything points to at least the former.
There isn't really a difference at all. You've brought up zero reason why "original form" wouldn't account for amps of said original form. You're just assuming it can't include amps that a person unlocked in their original form that they were accessing right up until the transformation.
#1 I can use this same argument. If they wanted this to mean the 120%, they could've easily said "200% that of his previous strength", but they didn't.
The mention of form doesn't tie on all the addons to his regular strength.
#2 This is a different language. The meaning of form there could be different than the meaning of form traditionally
Explain why the form wouldn't include an add-on they were accessing before the transformation? I'd agree if Mahito WASN'T accessing 120% before the transformation. But he was. And the issue with your example is that original form can only be interpreted as his first form. Not his "first/original power/strength", as the two mean completely different things. Strength/Power is how much power they can output. Form is their appearance.

And while yes, it's true "form" CAN mean something different, you haven't presented what else it could mean. Not to mention it's made explicitly clear when they explain his hands being the same as his original form. So it seems clear they're using "form" in the normal sense that most people use it in.
Did you just instantly forget that it ain't 200% stronger, but 200% of his strength level?
Saying someone is 200% stronger and 200% of their original strength has the same end result.
You don't give multipliers due to your amped technique harming someone else with a multiplier
Yuji alone in that key alone would be over 200% of his current strength, not scaleable to any other form of yuji or any other character
I'm just saying that since we don't use the ^2.5 amp, can't we at least treat it as at least a 3x amp for being able to overcome that difference?
 
Hmmm can't we have a possible rating for the x3.6, I don't think its a wank or really improbable
"Possibly x3.6" is out of the bag since the 200% increase was a mistranslation, at best we could get a x2.4 multiplier from Shibuya Mahito Pre-Potential Unlock (who already scales above Overtime Nanami) to ISBODK Mahito.
 
There isn't really a difference at all. You've brought up zero reason why "original form" wouldn't account for amps of said original form. You're just assuming it can't include amps that a person unlocked in their original form that they were accessing right up until the transformation.
I'm not assuming it can't. I'm saying there's not enough evidence it to where it is.
Explain why the form wouldn't include an add-on they were accessing before the transformation? I'd agree if Mahito WASN'T accessing 120% before the transformation. But he was. And the issue with your example is that original form can only be interpreted as his first form. Not his "first/original power/strength", as the two mean completely different things. Strength/Power is how much power they can output. Form is their appearance.
The technique is not a "I multiply my current power by 2". It's "I add enough power to myself to where the end result is 200% of my regular form".

This isn't a multiplier. It's an addition in power to where that addition in power is equal to 200% of his original regular self.

The level of your potential you've reached and your regular level of power in your original form are not the same.

Saying he's 200% of his amped self is trying to tie his potential unleashed self to his original form.

This isn't a statement referencing the manga's events, it's a statement referencing the basic information of that form, which is that it's 200% of his regular self.
And while yes, it's true "form" CAN mean something different, you haven't presented what else it could mean. Not to mention it's made explicitly clear when they explain his hands being the same as his original form. So it seems clear they're using "form" in the normal sense that most people use it in.
The argument isn't that it objectively means it's for the original level of power, it's that it's not enough saying it's for the increased potential portion.
Saying someone is 200% stronger and 200% of their original strength has the same end result.
Saying somebody is 20% stronger means they're at 120% of their regular strength.
Saying somebody is 20% of their original strength means they're at 1/5th their regular strength.

Saying somebody is 200% stronger means they're at 300% of their regular strength, as their full power is at 100% and they add 200% to that
Saying somebody is 200% of their original strength means they're 2x their regular strength, as their fullpower is 100% and they're 200% of that, or 2x that.
I'm just saying that since we don't use the ^2.5 amp, can't we at least treat it as at least a 3x amp for being able to overcome that difference?
No, because that's against the rules.
 
I'm not assuming it can't. I'm saying there's not enough evidence it to where it is.

The technique is not a "I multiply my current power by 2". It's "I add enough power to myself to where the end result is 200% of my regular form".

This isn't a multiplier. It's an addition in power to where that addition in power is equal to 200% of his original regular self.

The level of your potential you've reached and your regular level of power in your original form are not the same.

Saying he's 200% of his amped self is trying to tie his potential unleashed self to his original form.

This isn't a statement referencing the manga's events, it's a statement referencing the basic information of that form, which is that it's 200% of his regular self.

The argument isn't that it objectively means it's for the original level of power, it's that it's not enough saying it's for the increased potential portion.

Saying somebody is 20% stronger means they're at 120% of their regular strength.
Saying somebody is 20% of their original strength means they're at 1/5th their regular strength.

Saying somebody is 200% stronger means they're at 300% of their regular strength, as their full power is at 100% and they add 200% to that
Saying somebody is 200% of their original strength means they're 2x their regular strength, as their fullpower is 100% and they're 200% of that, or 2x that.

No, because that's against the rules.
Here's an analogous example of this situation. Say for exampleeee, Goku went Kaio-ken x10. Then he went Super Saiyan. If someone said he's 5x stronger than his original form, I think it's quite clear they'd be referring to his original form in the last state it was in (aka with Kaio-ken included), no? Or would we treat it as only 5x his Base form before the last condition/state it was in? If you say the latter, I think we just fundamentally disagree on what "original form" entails. And I'll agree to disagree from there.

Ah yeah, I forget vs wiki rules are wack asf, lol. What would Black Flash be treated as in a match-up then? It can affect people 3x stronger than themselves, and we don't treat it as a ^2.5 increase (Which I agree with in case that wasn't clear). Would we assume against an opponent only 1.5x stronger it'd have little affect on them and just vaguely upscales despite what it's shown to work on within the story? I'm not saying we should list it as a 3x increase on the profiles, but treat it as at LEAST that in a match-up since we know the increase is at least bigger than that of a 3x difference.
 
Here's an analogous example of this situation. Say for exampleeee, Goku went Kaio-ken x10. Then he went Super Saiyan. If someone said he's 5x stronger than his original form, I think it's quite clear they'd be referring to his original form in the last state it was in (aka with Kaio-ken included), no? Or would we treat it as only 5x his Base form before the last condition/state it was in? If you say the latter, I think we just fundamentally disagree on what "original form" entails. And I'll agree to disagree from there.
Because we know that Goku’s SS is a x50
 
Here's an analogous example of this situation. Say for exampleeee, Goku went Kaio-ken x10. Then he went Super Saiyan. If someone said he's 5x stronger than his original form, I think it's quite clear they'd be referring to his original form in the last state it was in (aka with Kaio-ken included), no? Or would we treat it as only 5x his Base form before the last condition/state it was in? If you say the latter, I think we just fundamentally disagree on what "original form" entails. And I'll agree to disagree from there.
It's the latter, because Kaio-ken although a technique, counts as a "form" of Gokus.
Original ≠ Previous. Original is the first, previous is the most recent.
Goku without any amps is the original. Goku with amps prior to the most recent amp is the previous.
Fundamental difference.
Ah yeah, I forget vs wiki rules are wack asf, lol. What would Black Flash be treated as in a match-up then? It can affect people 3x stronger than themselves, and we don't treat it as a ^2.5 increase (Which I agree with in case that wasn't clear). Would we assume against an opponent only 1.5x stronger it'd have little affect on them and just vaguely upscales despite what it's shown to work on within the story? I'm not saying we should list it as a 3x increase on the profiles, but treat it as at LEAST that in a match-up since we know the increase is at least bigger than that of a 3x difference.
"Stronger than base"

Can't work with it
 
Here's an analogous example of this situation. Say for exampleeee, Goku went Kaio-ken x10. Then he went Super Saiyan. If someone said he's 5x stronger than his original form, I think it's quite clear they'd be referring to his original form in the last state it was in (aka with Kaio-ken included), no? Or would we treat it as only 5x his Base form before the last condition/state it was in? If you say the latter, I think we just fundamentally disagree on what "original form" entails. And I'll agree to disagree from there.
I disagree with your interpretation. Original form would not mean previous form. It would mean first form (or in this case base/regular form). If they were referring to the previous state, they'd say "previous form". I'd think that much is obvious.
 
It's the latter, because Kaio-ken although a technique, counts as a "form" of Gokus.
Original ≠ Previous. Original is the first, previous is the most recent.
Goku without any amps is the original. Goku with amps prior to the most recent amp is the previous.
Fundamental difference.
I wouldn't consider Kaio-Ken a form/transformation at all tho. For Super Saiyan sure, it changes Goku's physical appearance in a distinct matter. Kaio-Ken just gives him a red aura (and bulks him up a bit I think? I can't recall). So I don't see why Kaio-Ken would be considered a "previous form". His "previous form" would be his Base form.
I guess so.
"Stronger than base"

Can't work with it
So just vaguely above? What would we treat it as working on hypothetically before it hardly has any effect?
 
I disagree with your interpretation. Original form would not mean previous form. It would mean first form (or in this case base/regular form). If they were referring to the previous state, they'd say "previous form". I'd think that much is obvious.
I already said "first form" earlier. Mahito wasn't in any other form. He was just revealing 120% of his power. That's not its own form, that's just Mahito letting out more power than usual.
 
Someone unleashing 120% of their potential after landing a Black Flash seems to be part of "the Zone" that they enter temporarily, the only possible point I can think of is Mahito's development and potential already being stupidly high that he can improve significantly during battle.
In his first ever fight (known) against Nanami he has:
- No DE, his CT is very limited, his CE seems too be alot though, his abilities are limited aswell, he can't use his transfigured humans in battle. However he is compared to Gojo from Nanami himself at the start in personality. This as a child curse.

In his next fight, second fight as baby curse, which seems to be the day after his first, against Yuuji (someone he can't use his CT against) and Nanami he:
- unlocks a perfect DE (a feat not even Gojo post RCT could do) which prompts Nanami to give up with no hesitation, and to indirectly compare it to Unlimited Void, he is able to use very weak transfigured sould which Yuuji dispatches off. And is able to get away from Yuuji and Nanami after being attacked by Sukuna post DE.

His fight against Mechamaru doesn't really show any change bar increased Battle IQ, baiting him. However his final fight is the one that was the most insane to me:

- He copied Gojo's 0.2 DE with no prior experience, he's able to create 4 PMSI, which are able to shoot Todo (grade 1 sorcerer) across buildings, he was also able to make one post DE. He learnt how to Black Flash and was able to do so right after using a DE. He was able to combine moves such as Soul Multiplicty and Body Repel. He learnt the true essence of his soul, where he is 200% tougher than his base. He would've ripped Yuuji to shreads if Yuuji didn't black flash. He states himself hewould've been truly born if he killed Yuuji. Other feats include being able to make a clone of himself that can body metemorph. And THESE FEATS ARE ALL AFTER:

- him transfiguring over 1000 humans

- him being down to 40% due to Nobara, Itadori's BF, Itadori's attacks and his clone being crushed

And one overlooked feat is that since Geto's technique means the CS stays fixed when absorbed, it means that Kenjaku did a feat (transfiguring the entire country for the culling games) that Mahito was able to do.
 
...
was his "120% of his potential" even really "120% of his strength"?
It sounds like he just... became a better fighter
Same with everybody
 
...
was his "120% of his potential" even really "120% of his strength"?
It sounds like he just... became a better fighter
Same with everybody

Those who experienced Black Flash has more understanding of cursed energy than other sorcerer. Yuji was having difficulty releasing his cursed energy before learning Black Flash, and after the mastering it he has gotten stronger. 120% of their potential should refer to how they can expertly control their cursed energy output, which correlates to AP.

Mahito who now has 1.2x more cursed energy output (in his original form) becomes 2x stronger in his ISBoDK form. So he should scales to the 2.4x value of Nanami's calc
 
Those who experienced Black Flash has more understanding of cursed energy than other sorcerer. Yuji was having difficulty releasing his cursed energy before learning Black Flash, and after the mastering it he has gotten stronger.
Okay. So after the original training with Todo who taught him how to use his cursed energy far more efficiently without just using it for an incomplete divergent fist plus has better cursed energy control due to a better comprehension of Black Flash is stronger.
120% of their potential should refer to how they can expertly control their cursed energy output, which correlates to AP.
No, cause they would've just said that. 120% of their potential doesn't seem to correlate to their cursed energy output at all.
Mahito who now has 1.2x more cursed energy output (in his original form) becomes 2x stronger in his ISBoDK form. So he should scales to the 2.4x value of Nanami's calc
I disagree
 
No, cause they would've just said that. 120% of their potential doesn't seem to correlate to their cursed energy output at all.
It should be since the context behind the statement was them more mastering Black Flash throughout the fight (Mahito & Todo finally did Black Flash, Itadori improved his Black Flash and cursed energy output).

And the experience of Black Flash alone is enough to advance someone cursed energy manipulation/release/output
 
Mahito's fight in Shibuya was also his first time landing Black Flash so he should've experienced a permanent buff from his growth like Yuji did during the Kyoto Goodwill Event and Mahito already scales to Overtime Nanami before landing that Black Flash

BLACK FLASH (黒閃 - kokusen)
A black flash of light that approaches the essence of cursed energy.
....
However, there is an immeasurable difference in the understanding of the essence of cursed energy between sorcerers who have experienced Black Flash and those who haven’t. Those who have experienced it are said to stand on a different level.
~Jujutsu Kaisen Official Fanbook
 
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