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There probably is a calc for the latter that I’ve seen somewhere before, but idk if that’s still valid. The 200%? don’t think so. I’ll go look into both.
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JJK AP Downgrade
- Thread starter Arkenis
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There probably is a calc for the latter that I’ve seen somewhere before, but idk if that’s still valid. The 200%? don’t think so. I’ll go look into both.
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Regarding the Hollow Purple part, for AP no. We can't use it for AP anymore since it's treated as void manip. (We did have a calc for its AP against Hanami tho. But it isn't used anymore for the reason mentioned previously)
In regards to the original thing; If someone unleashed 10x their usual power in their original body, and then either transformed or gained a completely new body, and someone stated "They're twice as strong as their original body/form", that would mean twice as strong as the body as it LAST was. Which was 10x above their usual power.
If they meant to say 200% stronger than his original power, then they could've easily said "200% that of his original strength" or "200% stronger than originally". That explicit mention of "form" makes it quite clear he's 200% stronger than he last was. Otherwise there would be no reason to mention "original form". And the fact they double down on original form when explaining their hand only further cements that for me.
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A potential is a permanent “amp” right? Their latent power. So wouldn’t the original form be the new 120% potential?
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That's what I figured. But even if it wasn't, it still makes most sense to argue distorted form is 3.6x stronger, because if it wasn't, then the transformation wouldn't even be 200% stronger than his original form. It would've only been less than 200% since his original form was 20% stronger than usual before he transformed.
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I think likely at the very least. Original simply means first. So you could word it as "Mahito is 3x stronger than his first form" which at the time was 20% stronger than usual (Though ig you could argue the 120% became his new 100%?). So it makes literally no sense to assume he's 200% stronger than his first/original power since that wasn't stated. To say it wouldn't include amps/unlocked potential requires an unsubstantiated assertion tbh. Because amps are in no way excluded from "original form" if said original form was already amped when they underwent said transformation.
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yes i think, i remember theres a quote like "theres a different between a person who has experience black flash and those who dont"
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could it be 200% of his orginal self, and another 120% through black flash?
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No.
Again.
They would've said previous.
There is a difference between "original form" and "amped strength from original form". Absolutely nothing points to the latter, while everything points to at least the former.
#1 I can use this same argument. If they wanted this to mean the 120%, they could've easily said "200% that of his previous strength", but they didn't.
The mention of form doesn't tie on all the addons to his regular strength.
#2 This is a different language. The meaning of form there could be different than the meaning of form traditionally
No. Because it says they "brought out 120% of their potential", implying it's not something that they just regularly reached.
Did you just instantly forget that it ain't 200% stronger, but 200% of his strength level?
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Black Flash is ^2.5, not 120%. That said, should we treat Black Flash as at least a 200% or 260% increase for being able to affect Mahito with the transformation page stating Itadori would've been ****** if he didn't land it?
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You don't give multipliers due to your amped technique harming someone else with a multiplier
Yuji alone in that key alone would be over 200% of his current strength, not scaleable to any other form of yuji or any other character
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Okay then
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There isn't really a difference at all. You've brought up zero reason why "original form" wouldn't account for amps of said original form. You're just assuming it can't include amps that a person unlocked in their original form that they were accessing right up until the transformation.
Explain why the form wouldn't include an add-on they were accessing before the transformation? I'd agree if Mahito WASN'T accessing 120% before the transformation. But he was. And the issue with your example is that original form can only be interpreted as his first form. Not his "first/original power/strength", as the two mean completely different things. Strength/Power is how much power they can output. Form is their appearance.
And while yes, it's true "form" CAN mean something different, you haven't presented what else it could mean. Not to mention it's made explicitly clear when they explain his hands being the same as his original form. So it seems clear they're using "form" in the normal sense that most people use it in.
Saying someone is 200% stronger and 200% of their original strength has the same end result.
I'm just saying that since we don't use the ^2.5 amp, can't we at least treat it as at least a 3x amp for being able to overcome that difference?
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"Possibly x3.6" is out of the bag since the 200% increase was a mistranslation, at best we could get a x2.4 multiplier from Shibuya Mahito Pre-Potential Unlock (who already scales above Overtime Nanami) to ISBODK Mahito.
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I'm not assuming it can't. I'm saying there's not enough evidence it to where it is.
The technique is not a "I multiply my current power by 2". It's "I add enough power to myself to where the end result is 200% of my regular form".
This isn't a multiplier. It's an addition in power to where that addition in power is equal to 200% of his original regular self.
The level of your potential you've reached and your regular level of power in your original form are not the same.
Saying he's 200% of his amped self is trying to tie his potential unleashed self to his original form.
This isn't a statement referencing the manga's events, it's a statement referencing the basic information of that form, which is that it's 200% of his regular self.
The argument isn't that it objectively means it's for the original level of power, it's that it's not enough saying it's for the increased potential portion.
Saying somebody is 20% stronger means they're at 120% of their regular strength.
Saying somebody is 20% of their original strength means they're at 1/5th their regular strength.
Saying somebody is 200% stronger means they're at 300% of their regular strength, as their full power is at 100% and they add 200% to that
Saying somebody is 200% of their original strength means they're 2x their regular strength, as their fullpower is 100% and they're 200% of that, or 2x that.
No, because that's against the rules.
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Alright let’s move on from the multipliers.
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I need a list of every calc
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Here's an analogous example of this situation. Say for exampleeee, Goku went Kaio-ken x10. Then he went Super Saiyan. If someone said he's 5x stronger than his original form, I think it's quite clear they'd be referring to his original form in the last state it was in (aka with Kaio-ken included), no? Or would we treat it as only 5x his Base form before the last condition/state it was in? If you say the latter, I think we just fundamentally disagree on what "original form" entails. And I'll agree to disagree from there.
Ah yeah, I forget vs wiki rules are wack asf, lol. What would Black Flash be treated as in a match-up then? It can affect people 3x stronger than themselves, and we don't treat it as a ^2.5 increase (Which I agree with in case that wasn't clear). Would we assume against an opponent only 1.5x stronger it'd have little affect on them and just vaguely upscales despite what it's shown to work on within the story? I'm not saying we should list it as a 3x increase on the profiles, but treat it as at LEAST that in a match-up since we know the increase is at least bigger than that of a 3x difference.
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Uzumaki's crater isn't used anymore sadly. Not that version anyway.
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Because we know that Goku’s SS is a x50
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For the sake of the example, you could pretend we didn't know SS was 50x Base. I couldn't think of another case that I could apply this analogy to.
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It's the latter, because Kaio-ken although a technique, counts as a "form" of Gokus.
Original ≠ Previous. Original is the first, previous is the most recent.
Goku without any amps is the original. Goku with amps prior to the most recent amp is the previous.
Fundamental difference.
"Stronger than base"
Can't work with it
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I disagree with your interpretation. Original form would not mean previous form. It would mean first form (or in this case base/regular form). If they were referring to the previous state, they'd say "previous form". I'd think that much is obvious.
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I wouldn't consider Kaio-Ken a form/transformation at all tho. For Super Saiyan sure, it changes Goku's physical appearance in a distinct matter. Kaio-Ken just gives him a red aura (and bulks him up a bit I think? I can't recall). So I don't see why Kaio-Ken would be considered a "previous form". His "previous form" would be his Base form.
I guess so.
So just vaguely above? What would we treat it as working on hypothetically before it hardly has any effect?
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I already said "first form" earlier. Mahito wasn't in any other form. He was just revealing 120% of his power. That's not its own form, that's just Mahito letting out more power than usual.
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Someone unleashing 120% of their potential after landing a Black Flash seems to be part of "the Zone" that they enter temporarily, the only possible point I can think of is Mahito's development and potential already being stupidly high that he can improve significantly during battle.
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...
was his "120% of his potential" even really "120% of his strength"?
It sounds like he just... became a better fighter
Same with everybody
was his "120% of his potential" even really "120% of his strength"?
It sounds like he just... became a better fighter
Same with everybody
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I agree
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Those who experienced Black Flash has more understanding of cursed energy than other sorcerer. Yuji was having difficulty releasing his cursed energy before learning Black Flash, and after the mastering it he has gotten stronger. 120% of their potential should refer to how they can expertly control their cursed energy output, which correlates to AP.
Mahito who now has 1.2x more cursed energy output (in his original form) becomes 2x stronger in his ISBoDK form. So he should scales to the 2.4x value of Nanami's calc
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I'd also like to add on that Gojo notes how Yuji became far stronger after spending time with Todo which was due to him performing Black Flash, and it wasn't just a temporary boost as Ijichi notes how the trio were assigned to the Yasohachi Bridge mission with Yuji's growth in mind
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Okay. So after the original training with Todo who taught him how to use his cursed energy far more efficiently without just using it for an incomplete divergent fist plus has better cursed energy control due to a better comprehension of Black Flash is stronger.
No, cause they would've just said that. 120% of their potential doesn't seem to correlate to their cursed energy output at all.
I disagree
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It should be since the context behind the statement was them more mastering Black Flash throughout the fight (Mahito & Todo finally did Black Flash, Itadori improved his Black Flash and cursed energy output).
And the experience of Black Flash alone is enough to advance someone cursed energy manipulation/release/output
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Mahito's fight in Shibuya was also his first time landing Black Flash so he should've experienced a permanent buff from his growth like Yuji did during the Kyoto Goodwill Event and Mahito already scales to Overtime Nanami before landing that Black Flash
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Bro can we just get all the calcs in 1 message
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I promise you this isn't all the calcs here
What about the Hollow Purple one or the calcs on the verse page?
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Can't be used due to being accepted as Void manip. Unfortunately.
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That was chalked up as void manipulation and is considered not usable for AP from what I remember
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