• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Output is specifically only noted in attacks, hence why Ryu is special in JJK. He's weaker than the likes of Sukuna, even though he has a higher output cause his refinement isn't as good as the likes of Sukuna or Gojo or maybe even Yuta.
 
He just doesn't have the same level of optimization that the likes of Sukuna and Gojo have is all. Which is partially what makes those two the god tiers of the verse at the moment even though one for sure has a lower output than Ryu.
 
Output is specifically only noted in attacks, hence why Ryu is special in JJK. He's weaker than the likes of Sukuna, even though he has a higher output cause his refinement isn't as good as the likes of Sukuna or Gojo or maybe even Yuta.
I recall output being used in reference to strengthening the body. IIRC, it was when Todo was going to be hit by Hanami's seed where he originally hardened his body with his CE. Then against Mahito he subconsciously strengthened his stomach which was hit by Black Flash which saved him. (Speaking of which. Would that warrant instinctive reaction?)
 
All of Jujutsu is unusual, that’s not a defeater to the argument. That’s why there are actually so little in the grand scheme of it all, and the actual kanji can be interpreted three ways: unusual abilities / superpower / power beyond humans.
So in a society where Cursed Techniques are held as the big deciding factor for how powerful someone is perceived, you think "unusual abilities" isn't about their Cursed Techniques? Also yeah the kanji can mean those three different things and yet they chose abilities.
 
You are solely arguing on statement from Yuji who is just asking his senior to help
That goes against the narrative and Yuji's character entirely, Yuji wouldn't ask somebody to die pointlessly because of his actions, he would never ask somebody to fight Sukuna if he wasn't sure of their power

Yuta even tells him "I'll do what I can" he's not even confident in it himself.
The evidence is on Yuji's end since he's the only one who's seen 15F Sukuna display of power in Shibuya entirely, Yuta doesn't know how powerful Sukuna is so his statement is the one that holds less water than Yuji's.
 
So in a society where Cursed Techniques are held as the big deciding factor for how powerful someone is perceived, you think "unusual abilities" isn't about their Cursed Techniques? Also yeah the kanji can mean those three different things and yet they chose abilities.
Other translations have said it's second to Gojo in the modern era, we've already seen Viz muck up a translation with ISBDK Mahito and there's a whole Tumblr blog detailling Viz's translation errors in JJK so they shouldn't automatically take precedent
 
So in a society where Cursed Techniques are held as the big deciding factor for how powerful someone is perceived, you think "unusual abilities" isn't about their Cursed Techniques? Also yeah the kanji can mean those three different things and yet they chose abilities.
No, actually, because there are more than that. In-fact, solely cursed techniques in relation to strength is only a factor in the Zenin clan. There are people, like Ishigori, who have the highest output ever. Or, people like Gojo, who’s the first in thousands of years to have the combination of both Six Eyes and Limits, or how Sukuna possesses a barrierless Domain. Yuta’s “unusuality” has recurrently been referenced in strength. How he somehow cursed a soul with enough power for Rika to be able to handle 99% of Jujutsu Society, made Gojo admit he’d risk his life to her twice, and said she was near-impossible to exorcise, capable of changing the world itself to the point where Geto admits Rika > all his curses.
 
I recall output being used in reference to strengthening the body. IIRC, it was when Todo was going to be hit by Hanami's seed where he originally hardened his body with his CE. Then against Mahito he subconsciously strengthened his stomach which was hit by Black Flash which saved him. (Speaking of which. Would that warrant instinctive reaction?)
In both cases, output isn't mentioned but terms like reinforcement or protective cursed energy
 
In both cases, output isn't mentioned but terms like reinforcement or protective cursed energy
I'll take your word for it since I'm not nearly as far in. I just figured to reinforce durability and attacks, someone had to actually output their Cursed Energy rather than just let it "rest"/"lay dormant".
 
We're given a straight up value for how much Sukuna's power is restricted in his fight with Yuji and Maki. He's at 10% cursed output, hence his reliance on physicals for harming the two since that wasn't restricted. And we already know through Yuji that the vessel's physicals are enhanced through becoming a vessel.

We have a value for his cursed techinques to scale him to and stuff like defending himself doesn't fall under cursed output so any damage to that Sukuna should be considered scaling to his durability.
The Problem is 10% Sure but how are we gonna scale it into his fire arrow because Body output and fire arrow are not the same.

We don't have any proof for Sukuna can use CE to reinforce his Body on same level as his Output for Fire arrow.
 
Since the fire arrow isn't noted as a Maximum Technique, we would just scale it to Sukuna's normal tiering. And we also generally assume, unless otherwise specficed by a series, that when using universal energy systems that your durability will scale with your AP. JJk is no exception. So Sukuna's durabilty should not be lower than his AP even while possessing megumi with him fighting back. His AP is just reduced when attacking allies.
 
If Maki.and Yuji downscales from fire arrow sure but there is this problem with Yuta scaling to 15F Sukuna.

Before Yuji requesting Yuta to kill him he mentioned about even if he at remaining 5F and become 20F he doubt Sukuna would be able to take over him. If that's the case Yuji is refering to Yuta to kill 20F Sukuna not 15F which is illogical as Yuta doens't even come close to 20F Sukuna. Unless my understanding wrong on that statement feel free to explain.

Yuji doesn't seem to be talking about 15F Sukuna and he was even shocked by Yuta CE> Gojo CE. So it's logical for him to believe Yuta has a chance against Sukuna.

But if we are gonna use this fine.
15F Sukuna fire arrow (10%) ~ Maki < Yuta
 
I think that's a fair argument but that might lean more towards a possibly rating then something solid due to how Sukuna does cut him down.
 
With the fire arrow, it isn't noted to be some sort of more powerful technique like the maximum techniques, plus Sukuna also shot it at Mahoraga who was roughly 2m in front and had thr blast encompass him and came unscathed. So his durability would scale and in turn Ap.
 
We don't treat the blast as an explosion though. It's treated as like a vaporizing force. Don't think Inverse square law would apply to it since it's not an explosion (From what I've heard anyway).
0119-010.png

say boom. think that's an explosion sound
 
0119-010.png

say boom. think that's an explosion sound
To be fair, the "boom" sound affect is used for a lot of attacks in manga and comic media. Even for attacks that are like fire tornadoes. If we're gonna treat it as an explosion, sure. It should be listed as explosion manip on the profile. But if we treat it like a giant expulsion of fire that vaporizes everything within a 200+ meter diameter we shouldn't apply Inverse square law to it.
 
I think that's a fair argument but that might lean more towards a possibly rating then something solid due to how Sukuna does cut him down.
Cleave > Ryu durability > Granite Blast > Fire Arrow>~ Cleave

We will just go in circles by this. Ryu has tanked his own blast and survived there is nothing indicates his blast is above Fire arrow.
Eh. Current Yuji after his breakup with Sukuna maybe, but the Yuji that fought Yuta was essentially in the same place as the Yuji that fought Sukuna.
Yuji got the power amp later getting stabbed by Sukuna he got one shoted by Meguna the moment he got taken over. But later he suddenly had big amp which Gege didn't explained how. Sukuna just says Kenjaku created some creepy thing and starts to fighting. So Yuji one who fought Yuta < Yuji one who fought 10% of 15F Meguna
 
I can't find it but it was noted that the 10% is slightly mistranslated/misinterpreted as whole he's 10% but it was only his cursed technique that was reduced to 10%.
 
Cleave > Ryu durability > Granite Blast > Fire Arrow>~ Cleave

We will just go in circles by this. Ryu has tanked his own blast and survived there is nothing indicates his blast is above Fire arrow.
The blast Ryu took from himself wasn’t his maximum power, though. Not every blast he fires is > Fire Arrow. I mean his maximum output.
 
The blast Ryu took from himself wasn’t his maximum power, though. Not every blast he fires is > Fire Arrow. I mean his maximum output.
First Uro reflected Back and you can probably say he wasn't going all out but it was different for Yutas reflecting Ryu attack when he was completely serious and put all of his CE on the line

So we will be in a this circular scaling.
Cleave > Ryu durability > Granite Blast > Fire Arrow>~ Cleave
 
Ryu is the only person so far in JJK who's output of cursed energy is the same across the the board aka his physical are equal to his techniques output which are done through reinforcement would also naturally extend to his durability, on top of having survived attacks from people who are relative to him.
 
This is a cleave from a stronger Sukuna than the one who shot the fire arrow so the scaling isn't circular in this case.
This Megumi body was not completely taken over by Sukuna at that time he didn't sinked Megumi soul deeper and has complete Control. Even the bath normally takes 10 months to completely to perfect. But Sukuna didn't even took the bath for one day as far as we saw.

Also from what I understand growing stronger meant he gets small amount of increase in his power not completely big enough difference.
 
First Uro reflected Back and you can probably say he wasn't going all out but it was different for Yutas reflecting Ryu attack when he was completely serious and put all of his CE on the line

So we will be in a this circular scaling.
Again, no. Ryu blatantly admits all his blasts post-DE got weaker. Him putting all his CE on the line is a completely unsubstantiated claim, too, considering he went on to knock out Rika (and be explicitly uses explosive output for his punches, as stated by Yuta). There’s nothing circular.
 
This Megumi body was not completely taken over by Sukuna at that time he didn't sinked Megumi soul deeper and has complete Control. Even the bath normally takes 10 months to completely to perfect. But Sukuna didn't even took the bath for one day as far as we saw.

Also from what I understand growing stronger meant he gets small amount of increase in his power not completely big enough difference.
But that's the thing here, the fact that we know this Sukuna is stronger than the prior one, gives Ryu space to have a higher cursed energy output than prior sukuna, especially since Megumi is actually a vessel instead of being a cage like Yuji so he can take better advantage of his powers. And the statements of Ryu having the highest cursed energy output comes after the fire arrow is shown, so it should be considered when deciding on Ryu's AP. Both Sukuna's increase in power and statements given by both the narrative and reliable characters gives Ryu the space to scale to or above Sukuna's fire arrow.
 
Ummmm as the resident anime earthquake expert, the total seismic method is completely wrong to use in this scenario
Not really, feel free to give arguments against it though. I've talked to several calc members, and done actual research on the scaling method, and the Nanami calc (which is accepted) utilizes the same exact method. Ant also tagged members in that very thread and there no dispute against it.
 
Not really, feel free to give arguments against it though. I've talked to several calc members, and done actual research on the scaling method, and the Nanami calc (which is accepted) utilizes the same exact method. Ant also tagged members in that very thread and there no dispute against it.
Which calc members then, because seismic energy is used when the tectonic plates itself are moving

A calculation utilizing seismic moment when it's just shaking a bunch of shit without it being a natural earthquake doesn't make logical sense
 
Which calc members then, because seismic energy is used when the tectonic plates itself are moving

A calculation utilizing seismic moment when it's just shaking a bunch of shit without it being a natural earthquake doesn't make logical sense
I asked several calc members including Clover, Mitch, and another major member (blanking his name on site rn). Not to mention, I also had Ant literally tag a slew of calc members in that very thread.

Yes, and that's not understanding how Earthquakes work. SM should be used in cases in which natural earthquakes are occurring via tectonic plates, as that is how they happen IRL. That isn't always the case in fiction though, as obviously a lot of times the characters themselves are using strength or magic to do such. Seismic moment energy is simply the energy needed to produce an earthquake of X magnitude with the radiated energy (< 1-10% of an earthquake's total energy) simply being a byproduct of the energy release.

Anyone who is replicating an earthquake is scaling to the seismic moment, the only time radiated energy should even be applicable is in an instance in which a character separate from the person making the earthquake, nullifies the shaking from the epicenter from a separate point.

Your are essentially arguing that we should scale characters to the waves they make from canonballing into the water, instead of energy at epicenter (their body weight causing the event) + the radiated waves. Which is patently nonsensical.

Won't be back for a couple of hours so won't respond for a bit.
 
I asked several calc members including Clover, Mitch, and another major member (blanking his name on site rn). Not to mention, I also had Ant literally tag a slew of calc members in that very thread.

Yes, and that's not understanding how Earthquakes work. SM should be used in cases in which natural earthquakes are occurring via tectonic plates, as that is how they happen IRL. That isn't always the case in fiction though, as obviously a lot of times the characters themselves are using strength or magic to do such. Seismic moment energy is simply the energy needed to produce an earthquake of X magnitude with the radiated energy (< 1-10% of an earthquake's total energy) simply being a byproduct of the energy release.

Anyone who is replicating an earthquake is scaling to the seismic moment, the only time radiated energy should even be applicable is in an instance in which a character separate from the person making the earthquake, nullifies the shaking from the epicenter from a separate point.

Your are essentially arguing that we should scale characters to the waves they make from canonballing into the water, instead of energy at epicenter (their body weight causing the event) + the radiated waves. Which is patently nonsensical.

Won't be back for a couple of hours so won't respond for a bit.

Case 2: Natural Earthquakes​

This method doesn't find much use, but is worth mentioning.

In which cases should it be used?

This method should only be used in case a natural earthquake occurs, as it takes into account the work necessary to overcome the friction between continent plates etc.

It should be noted that, realistically speaking, a natural earthquake can't have a magnitude above about 9.6. So if the righter scale magnitude calculated is above that, this methodology should only be used if special circumstances apply.

How is it done?

First perform step 1 and step 2 like described in "Case 1: Meteor Impacts".

Since here one does not wish to know the energy necessary for a meteor, but for a real earthquake this time the third step has to be different.

Instead of looking at the "Energy" section, one looks at the "Seismic Effects" section again. There a value named "Richter Scale Magnitude" will be listed. This is the magnitude an earthquake would need to have to cause the described effects at the distance from the epicenter we input. The value is independent from the method through which the earthquake was caused, so it also stays true for other natural earthquakes which aren't caused by meteor impacts.

One takes the Richter Scale Magnitude and inputs it in this calculator in the "Earthquake Magnitude" field. Then press the compute button.

The value for "Total "Seismic Moment Energy" (MO)" is the energy necessary to cause such an earthquake.

Case 3: Other​

This is the most common method to calculate earthquakes.

In which cases should it be used?

This should be used if the earthquake is not caused through something very similar to a meteor impact and is also not a natural earthquake.

How is it done?

The method is identical to that of "Case 2: Natural Earthquakes", just this time instead of the "Total Seismic Moment Energy" (MO)" value our end result is the "Seismic Energy in Waves Radiated from Earthquake Source" value.

The reason one uses that value in this case is that the big energy loss that comes through the movement of the continental plate or similar processes of natural earthquakes is not present here. Instead we can only use the amount of energy that actually takes part in the effects we observer. Hence only the energy radiated in form of seismic waves is relevant for this case.
Literally what are you talking about

So you called a bunch of guys who don't know anything about earthquakes is what I'm hearing, instead of the earthquake specialists like Migue, DT, or others, and they told you "the method used to measure tectonic movement is used for when tectonic movement isn't applicable".

@Migue79 or @DontTalkDT can you guys shed light on when we use Seismic Moment, instead of whatever it is I'm hearing here?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top