Jiren's New Feats and "Transcending Time"

[Dark649]

Beerus and Whis never saw Infinite Zamasu in person, through they sensed him. If we don't count the statements, the scaling would be this:

High 3-A: Hit, Gods of Destruction, Ultra Instinct Goku, Jiren, Super Shenron Wishes

Low 2-C: Angels

At least Low 2-C: Grand Priest

But Matt proved that the statements are indeed solid.

 

[Antvasima]

Staff only.

 

[Antoniofer]

I don't think that Hit should be rated High 3-A, he didn't performed much better than Goku without UI, and only pushed Jiren by his time skip abilities and attacks that generally ignore durability. A note aboit his improved time skip should work.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think that Hit should be rated High 3-A, he didn't performed much better than Goku without UI, and only pushed Jiren by his time skip abilities and attacks that generally ignore durability. A note aboit his improved time skip should work.

Good thing they'll be Low 2-C.

 

[Liger686]

I agree with Matthew.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we need more staff input before making such an important change.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think Matt makes sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Soldier Blue, Dragonmasterxyz, TISSG7Redgrave, Somebody Data, Ryukama, Dark649, The Real Cal Howard and Liger686 all support me, I think.

I think others do too.

 

[Dark649]

I have a question: If they are upgraded to Low 2-C, how it's going to affect the other characters?, who remains 3-A or becomes High 3-A?.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Everyone who is 3-A remains 3-A.

The High 3-As become Low 2-C.

That's it.

 

[Dark649]

What if someone makes a thread to upgrade the 3-A characters to High 3-A because SSG Goku fought a casual Beerus, who will be Low 2-C?.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Beerus was suppressed. Renders the argument null and void. Superman fights casual Mxy but that doesn't make him High 2-A.

 

[Antoniofer]

I just had the issue with Hit; don't care that much the other characters, that depend of the other staff.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am yet to watch Episode 111. I will give my input on Hit then.

 

[Dark649]

Ok, you can also include that they can destroy the space-time on an universal scale since they are also far stronger than SSB Vegeta that destroyed space-time on a planetary scale.

 

[Kaltias]

I agree with Matt

 

[Ryukama]

I'll just copy paste what I said in a previous thread.

I honestly feel like it takes more headcanon to have Zamasu as infinitely superior to Grand Priest than to say that Grand Priest is probably stronger. I mean people who are quite dismissive of Zamasu's power hold GP or even those far inferior to GP in an extremely high regard and fear/respect him greatly.

We all saw how much Beerus was quaking in his boots and Whis's rambunctious reaction at the thought of someone reaching GoD level. Do you really think if they encountered someone infinitely superior to a GoD and even an angel they'd just nonchalantly go "meh I'll go seal him" without making any remarks about his strength? Or how Whis would feel if someone became infinitely stronger than his dad, the person who he respects so much, states is in the Top 5 in all the multiverse and views as far beyond himself?

Or basically

Mortal reaches GoD = "OHMYGOD OHMYGOD OHMYGOD!!!"

Kai becomes infinitely stronger than a GoD, angel and The Grand Priest = "Whatevs"

^ This doesn't make too much sense to me IMO

But it's whichever others decide is best.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Exactly.

Beerus was concerned by Infinite Zamasu. That's it.

Beerus was crapping his pants at Jiren.

 

[Dark649]

Paleomario here wants to upgrade all the Future Trunks Arc 3-A characters to High 3-A.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Closed that thread.

 

[Dark649]

Ok, it's not even said, stated and nor proved that SSB Vegito, Fusion Zamasu and Spirit Bomb Trunks became infinitly stronger than before.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Doesn't matter. DBS like most fiction don't even consider the infinite gap between 3-A and Low 2-C. We upgrade via feats, not by what we think should make sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew has a good point. Most fiction does not make sense, so we have to go by feats.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Mathematically, you simply becoming Infinitely-stronger through training or new transformation doesn't make sense, but it happens.

You just have to go with it.

Hell, in Shin Megami Tensei the characters start as low-level superhumans and then by the end of the game are fighting 2-A or 1-C Gods. The only explanation for that is Leveling Up.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Everyone who is 3-A remains 3-A.
The High 3-As become Low 2-C.

That's it.

Matt made some fairly good and solid points, so I entirely agree with this

 

[The_Everlasting]

Shrugs

Literally the extent of my opinion on this.

 

[Antvasima]

The Dragon Ball fans are likely going to get overjoyed about this.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's wait a bit longer for more staff input, just to make sure that we are not rushing into something though.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The Dragon Ball fans are likely going to get overjoyed about this.

Yeah. It happens all the time. I've gotten used to it by now. But they will be spamming threads on this. No doubt about it. That is an unfortunate and annoying downside.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, at least the most extreme ones won't hate us anymore. That is one less problem to worry about.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We'd get hate regardless of what we do. It's basically white noise nowadays.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. With over 570000 visitors a month, at least a few hundred are bound to dislike us.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I still think jiren being low 2-C isn't a 100% definitive, however the implications are that he is stronger than infinite zamasu, there is nothing that definitively says jiren>zamasu, what we have is a statement saying his power feels different from what they have faced before, but back up by everything else, the implications are definitively pointing in the direction of jiren being stronger than zamasu, at this point i think Low 2-C is the best compromise.

It's really not that big of a deal anyway, except we will likely get flooded with db characters vs ppl they have no business being matched up with, but that happens with every upgrade, they will only be baseline Low 2-C anyway.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Celestial Pegasus

Actually, Shin says that Jiren's power feels different than anything they've faced before because he is stronger.

 

[Golden_Void]

The few remaining tasks left is to discuss Vados's statements, which I discussed above

But about Hit, I don't think he's above non-UI Goku, at least without time lock. Vados stated Hit couldn't land a single blow on Jiren, wheras NORMAL SSB Goku managed to go h2h with Jiren, and managed to land a few blows in regular/kaioken form. The only reason Hit landed the one punch he did, was to time Jiren's counters by getting physically abused, so he could strike at the right moment.

Jiren should get some new resistances as well. :^)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Matt That doesn't necessarily mean that, it implies it, he doesn't say he is stronger, he only says his power feels different, however the obvious implication is that he is stronger as i have already conceded, the implications are that jiren is above zamasu but there is no outright feat or statement which says jiren is stronger than zamasu, there are a bunch of implications however.

Which is why i agree jiren and everyone who scales to him should be upgraded, i am not against it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"His power feels different than anyone we've faced before. He is strong. Plain and simple"

^ Explains that his power is different due to Jiren's strength, not a different type of Ki or Aura.

But okay.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Already conceded he should scale to zamasu, not gonna argue it any further.

Now about hit, should be scale to jiren? I don't think he should since his techniques was ignoring jiren's durability from what i remember, and hit scaling would be a massive outlier as then everyone who scales to hit like ssb blue goku, would scale.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Couldn't Hit be High 3-A?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

How though? Just being able to trade blows doesn't necessarily means he scales, he was getting beat up, just like how jiren was beating him ssb goku, it was clear he wasn't a match for him, the only thing that was effective was his time/durability ignoring abilities. Jiren was clearly suppressing himself against him.

Plus the outlier it would be if he scales, hit clearly isn't above ssb goku.