Jason Voorhees Small Upgrade

[Silvervigilant]

Jason was able to tank this while fighting Freddy in the dream world, we know that the same damage inflicted in the dream world is also inflicted in the real life, so Jason took that damage for real, even Freddy couldn't believe how he was still "alive". The same Freddy could fight and damage Jason who in turn could do the same to him. So since Jason can fight those who can harm him he should also have a Wall Level+ AP and Striking Strength. (This also upgrades Freddy btw)

 

[TheShape03]

The 9-B+ was supposed to be removed, but the changes from this boiler recalculation have not yet been applied. Calculation that was done by the same person who did the original calculation, as it was addressed in this CRT that that old calculation was wrong.

 

[Silvervigilant]

The 9-B+ was supposed to be removed, but the changes from this boiler recalculation have not yet been applied. Calculation that was done by the same person who did the original calculation, as it was addressed in this CRT that that old calculation was wrong.

Oh thanks for the information, i did not knew about that. Can you also answer me something regarding Jason. Are his comics or even crossovers like Freddy vs Jason vs Ash considered canon?

 

[TheShape03]

Oh thanks for the information, i did not knew about that. Can you also answer me something regarding Jason. Are his comics or even crossovers like Freddy vs Jason vs Ash considered canon?

It is my understanding that they are considered canon. Both comics and novels are also taken into account in their profiles on this wiki (except the Jason vs Leatherface comic for obvious reasons). As long as the supplementary material doesn't contradict the movies, it can be used. Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash should also be canon, being an official sequel to the movie, which I think the only reason it was made as a comic and not a movie was due to "creative differences" between New Line Cinema and Bruce Campbell.

 

[Silvervigilant]

It is my understanding that they are considered canon. Both comics and novels are also taken into account in their profiles on this wiki (except the Jason vs Leatherface comic for obvious reasons). As long as the supplementary material doesn't contradict the movies, it can be used. Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash should also be canon, being an official sequel to the movie, which I think the only reason it was made as a comic and not a movie was due to "creative differences" between New Line Cinema and Bruce Campbell.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Oh the calc was accepted. Cool.

Well I made the change to the calc value.

Oh thanks for the information, i did not knew about that. Can you also answer me something regarding Jason. Are his comics or even crossovers like Freddy vs Jason vs Ash considered canon?

Current canon for the site goes as follows

• Movies - All are considered to be primary canon and the main source. In addition I also think we put WoG from directors on this level
• Novelizations of Movies - Can be used as evidence, except for scenes where they directly contradict the film they're based on
• EU Material (Comics / Novels / Etc) - Can be used as secondary canon as long as the plot or events of that EU material does not contradict the films

So in general something like "F13: Fear Book" can plausibly happen within the timeframe given in the movies which is why it's listed, however, something like Jason vs Leatherface contradicts stuff how Part VIII, IX, FvJ and X depicts Crystal Lake so it can't be used. In addition that's why the Uber-Jason Novels are useable, since they all take place after the film and don't retcon anything from them but the various Zombie Jason novels have canon issues that I addressed here that make them questionable/unusable in a lot of cases.

 

[TheShape03]

• Movies - All are considered to be primary canon and the main source. In addition I also think we put WoG from directors on this level
• Novelizations of Movies - Can be used as evidence, except for scenes where they directly contradict the film they're based on
• EU Material (Comics / Novels / Etc) - Can be used as secondary canon as long as the plot or events of that EU material does not contradict the films

I think we should remove everything to do with Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash. That comic belongs to the Army of Darkness comic series made by Dynamite Comics, which includes several Ash comics, and various crossovers with Xena, Herbert West, and Marvel Comics. The writers of F vs J vs Ash aren't even the creators of the characters. What do you think about it?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think we should remove everything to do with Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash. That comic belongs to the Army of Darkness comic series made by Dynamite Comics, which includes several Ash comics, and various crossovers with Xena, Herbert West, and Marvel Comics. The writers of F vs J vs Ash aren't even the creators of the characters. What do you think about it?

On it's own I'd might agree but in this case there's a lot of secondary stuff that makes me think it is useable:

• The actual Necronomicon is used in Part IX, ii is mentioned in the Uber-Jason novels to explain Jason's origins, the Part II novelization hints at it existing and WoG directly compares it to Evil Dead
• The original script itself was planned to be made, meaning that the owners thought that Ash post AoD could fit into the F13/NMoES joint universe
• The timeline for the first series at least does add up and the ending of the second series can lead directly into Jason X's movie backstory

But it should be noted that for the site we solely include those stories as being canon. Like Ash for scaling only counts for his three movies + that comic, with no additional feats from the STARs series or any other medium as they aren't mentioned in the comic series itself.

So while I do agree it is questionable, I don't think it technically goes into non-canon like some of the other series. Though Nightmare Warriors does titter on it since it only barely fits into Jason X's backstory and any future stories would likely break some of Rowan's dialogue.

 

[TheShape03]

On it's own I'd might agree but in this case there's a lot of secondary stuff that makes me think it is useable:

• The actual Necronomicon is used in Part IX, ii is mentioned in the Uber-Jason novels to explain Jason's origins, the Part II novelization hints at it existing and WoG directly compares it to Evil Dead
• The original script itself was planned to be made, meaning that the owners thought that Ash post AoD could fit into the F13/NMoES joint universe
• The timeline for the first series at least does add up and the ending of the second series can lead directly into Jason X's movie backstory

But it should be noted that for the site we solely include those stories as being canon. Like Ash for scaling only counts for his three movies + that comic, with no additional feats from the STARs series or any other medium as they aren't mentioned in the comic series itself.

Yes, but what makes me think otherwise are 3 things.

1) Even though there was a script, the movie never came to be, I don't think we have to rely on something that didn't come to pass (and if the movie did exist, there would be a huge plot hole which I'll point out now).

2) Nancy, in the first A Nightmare on Elm Street movie, she is watching Evil Dead. That is to say that in the universe of Freddy, Ash is fiction.

3) In Ash Vs. Evil Dead, Ash mentions that the last encounter he had with the deadites before the series was "30 years ago", that is, in Army of Darkness, long before the events of the Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash or any Dynamite comic (which are all supposed to follow the same continuity, F vs J vs Ash being one of the many crossovers that the Ash comic series has, which simply adapted a script that was never used, I find it hard to just separate the crossover with Freddy and Jason from the other Dynamite comics just to fit it into the canon universe of Freddy and Jason). That is to say that the Ash canon also ignores the existence of said comics.

 

[TheShape03]

Also, even though the elements of part 9 are "borrowed" from the Evil Dead universe, I think that doesn't mean they're necessarily connected.

The connection is actually not completely concrete since New Line Cinema did not have the rights to Evil Dead, so to separate both universes they changed elements such as the Kandarian Dagger, which was renamed the Voorhees Dagger in Jason's universe. Besides, the Necronomicon is not something exclusive to the Evil Dead, this is originally from the novel H.P. Lovecraft.

What I want to get at is that taking Ash as a canon in the universe of Freddy and Jason is very... strange considering the inconsistencies that exist and seeing the explanations we can give to the appearances of elements apparently coming from the Evil Dead.

 

[Qawsedf234]

1) Even though there was a script, the movie never came to be, I don't think we have to rely on something that didn't come to pass (and if the movie did exist, there would be a huge plot hole which I'll point out now).

My point was more along the lines that the intention for the crossover was considered plausible.

2) Nancy, in the first A Nightmare on Elm Street movie, she is watching Evil Dead. That is to say that in the universe of Freddy, Ash is fiction.

While that did happen, there's always two things:

It being a reference doesn't mean it couldn't have been retconned in some way

The Jason X novels mention the following:

"I'm going to show you some scenes you may recognize. This is an early passive titled Friday the 13th. You've probably seen this film at some point. It is a recognized classic. What you may not know is that when this ‘motion picture’ was first released, the majority of the public thought it was fiction. It went on to make a record amount of money at the box office, but unlike films such as Texas Chainsaw Massacre or The Blair Witch Project, no attempt was made by the filmmakers to pass the film off as true. Because not even the filmmakers knew they were making what amounts to a documentary.

"The reality upon which this film was based, unbeknownst to the producers, the director and the writer, was far worse, far more terrible than anything they could possibly have imagined. Through a series of clandestine operations too tortuous to rehearse here, the original screenwriter, Victor Miller, was passed notes on certain key plot points. Those notes originated in a government think tank connected with the still active MK Ultra program.

"Yes, you're aware of MK Ultra. Certainly it seems barbaric to us now that the U.S. Government tested hallucinogenic drugs on children, that they employed psychics to control minds at a distance —all of that is part of the public record. But the people behind MK Ultra were not fascists or fools. Sometimes scientific progress isn't understood at the time it's being made, which is why we have science fiction, horror, fantasy—to lighten the learning curve of the paradigm shift. MK Ultra from its inception had worked on the possibility of mass mind control, from the early stages of development upward.

"Fear is the key. You might say that fear is the greatest weapon one can wield. And fear, of the boogeyman, of things that go bump, of cryptic terrorists and random subversives—fear is what kept our Republic strong in the early days. What we have here with Jason Voorhees is one of the greatest forces for fear the world has ever known. And it starts with the youth. As you can see from this simplistic but effective film, teenagers tend to run rampant without direct supervision. Even with direct supervision, they find ways to sneak away. To indulge their primitive biological needs. Even Sean Cunningham, who originated the Friday series, said it was about the fear of untimely death—not a morality tale. But he was only half right. What that film, and many like it, succeeded in doing was to introduce the fear factor at the point of indulgence—to insert caution where imprudence might reign. What was true in the 20th Century is true in the 25th: children can only be truly disciplined through fear. And that fear, ladies and gentlemen, is what we intend to provide."

Basically all movies that were shown in either F13 or NMoES were soft retconned as being CIA MK Ultra propaganda to try and control the population. As such Evil Dead the movie can be canon in-universe with Ash Williams still existing as a real person.

3) In Ash Vs. Evil Dead, Ash mentions that the last encounter he had with the deadites before the series was "30 years ago", that is, in Army of Darkness, long before the events of the Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash or any Dynamite comic (which are all supposed to follow the same continuity, F vs J vs Ash being one of the many crossovers that the Ash comic series has, which simply adapted a script that was never used, I find it hard to just separate the crossover with Freddy and Jason from the other Dynamite comics just to fit it into the canon universe of Freddy and Jason). That is to say that the Ash canon also ignores the existence of said comics.

I didn't say that the prime universe did say the comics were canon. I said that for the profiles only what is mentioned is considered canon, and only the the movies are mentioned in the comics and to my knowledge no other crossovers were mentioned in either FvJvA or FvJvA: NW.

What I want to get at is that taking Ash as a canon in the universe of Freddy and Jason is very... strange considering the inconsistencies that exist and seeing the explanations we can give to the appearances of elements apparently coming from the Evil Dead.

It's one way canon

• Ash doesn't consider anything from the comics, F13 or NMoES as canon
• F13 and NMoES only consider the first three movies as canon as those are mentioned

There's no other comic scaling allowed or even implied.

 

[Oscar]

Although... wouldn't it be easier to profile the Ash version of Dynamite Comics? Since that version of Ash is precisely used for that event

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

And about Freddy Krueger creating a planet with only cars came, doesn't that guarantee him and Jason at least planet buster?


I definitely agree

 

[TheShape03]

And about Freddy Krueger creating a planet with only cars came, doesn't that guarantee him and Jason at least planet buster?

No, not even close.