Small revision to Jason Voorhees

[TheShape03]

As the first discussion thread that I make on this page, after more or less understanding its system and knowing it for a while (Sorry for possible errors in my English, since I am using a translator, and I don't have much experience with this type of pages), I thought I would start by reviewing the page of Undead Jason Voorhees by a level that I feel needs to be lowered, his durability.

Undead Jason currently rates 9-B+ in durability for surviving a 10-ton boiler falling on him in Freddy vs. Jason. However, I think the calculation that was made is wrong:

Some Jason Voorhees calcs

vsbattles.fandom.com

This calculation is assuming that the boiler falls at subsonic speed (49.03 m/s), which in the movie does not occur with the naked eye, and in the older version of the calculation:

We see that the 49.03 m/s was obtained because they used a calculator that told them that a fall of 5 seconds is a fall at that speed. You may also notice that on the same calculator:

Free Fall Calculator

Our free fall calculator can find the velocity of a falling object and the height it drops from.

www.omnicalculator.com

He says that would mean the object falls from 122.5831 meters, again, we see in the movie that this is visually incorrect.

The boiler took 5 seconds to fall and the height should be like 3 floors, during the fight scene in the dream world, Jason was on a second floor in the first scene, then when the camera shows Freddy sees that there is another floor and this is confirmed by the Making Of of F vs J:



You will notice that behind Freddy there is a staircase that takes us to a third floor, and on that third floor was the boiler as seen here:



The height I can get for this comes from here: https://civilsir.com/standard-height-of-1-2-3-4-5-and-multi-storey-building/#:~:text=Standard/average height of 3 storey house = 12 ft +,goes upto 33.5 feet high.

"Standard/average height of 3 storey house = 12 ft + 9.5 ×2 ft = 31 ft, so average height of three storey house is kept around 31 ft high from road level, if we add minimum 2.5 feet extension, then their average height will be goes upto 33.5 feet high."

31 feet, which is 9.4488 meters, if it took 5 seconds to fall, and applying Speed = Distance / Time, gives us a result of 1.88976 m/s.

They probably think that for reasons of logic and physics it is impossible for it to fall at that speed due to natural causes, however, in the novel it tells us that Freddy was pushing the boiler towards Jason with his powers, for which this could justify it:

"Soon, the entirety of the huge tank had broken free of its connection---ripped from the heart of the boiler room by the might of Freddy's infernal willpower. The whole room was shaking now, as if in expectation of what was to come.
Freddy looked up, saw the boiler suspended over Jason's beaten boody. Like some demented conductor, he raised his arms, then fluing both hands downwards.
Almost immediately, the great boiler tank obeyed Freddy's gestsure and dropped through the air, before hitting the ground and exploding with colossal, grinding, demolishing force on Jason's helpless body."

So, using the 9071.8474 kg calculated in the calculation shown above, if it were to fall at the speed I mentioned, it would exert kinetic energy like this:

9071.8474 * 1.88976^2 * 0.5 = 16198.6583201 Joules, still 9-B, but just above baseline.

I think his durability level should change to "At least 9-B" as his Attack Potency, I guess his "At least" is because it's above his previous stage where he destroyed a wooden door, which produces 516644.24 Joules, because it gets stronger with each resurrection, but the exact number of strength it gains is unknown.

That's a pretty big downgrade, going from 10912990.16963925 Joules to being over 516644.24 Joules to an unknown extent, Jason's other AP feats either have no calculus or are 9-C or 9-B but appear to be lower than the feat on break the door, this number is somewhat consistent if we take into account that a grenade destroyed his torso and he had to regenerate from that damage, being that the grenades have a yield of a little more than 1 megajoule:

M67 Fragmentation Grenade

The M67 Fragmentation Grenade is a handheld explosive used by the United States military. The M67 is a further development of the M33 grenade, itself a replacement for the M26-series grenades used during the Korean and Vietnam Wars, and the older Mk 2 "pineapple" grenade used since World War II...

vsbattles.fandom.com

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/1/18/Jason_Regen.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180318033433

And as a bonus revision, I'd like to ask if it's possible to give Jason a Class 25 rating in lifting strength, due to him being able to rip limbs off people, including Freddy Krueger, a superhuman being, for which you need a 200 kN force:

Common Feats: Force needed to rip off the arm of a human

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Dalesean027]

So what you do is blog your recalc and get it accepted by the CGM's any of the math you've done can be put in a blog butnit needs to be evaluated by staff and be able to be linked in the profiles and verse page so take care of that first because you're going to need to do that anyways

 

[MikeyMyersMain]

I’d say everything is pretty much correct, although as a small detail I’d like to add that either way, the boiler was visually falling quite slow too, probably useless to add but just to provide to your calc.

 

[Abstractions]

They probably think that for reasons of logic and physics it is impossible for it to fall at that speed due to natural causes, however, in the novel it tells us that Freddy was pushing the boiler towards Jason with his powers, for which this could justify it:

I think the action he was performing was more to unlatch it from its position and letting it go rather than completely thrusting it downwards, and I find the interpretation of him pushing the boiler at a crawling speed on Jason as rather weak as opposed to him simply letting gravity do the work, which you could also interpret from the writing or how he gestured following the boiler's release.

I'd posit that you would have an easier time arguing that Dream World physics wouldn't operate 100% the same as the real world's rather than that.

The height I can get for this comes from here:

Isn't this more of a standard for housing as opposed to workplace facilities such as factories and power plants? The location already appears to be irregular and not abide by these standards as we know them anyway, and they potentially may not even be accurate granted these scenes are supposed to represent the power plant Krueger worked at and not a residential building.

Admittedly the 49.03 m/s does feel a bit puzzling because the visuals do not represent that, but that's probably the main thing I agree with here.

EDIT: I recommend sticking to one account, please.

 

[MikeyMyersMain]

Wydm sticking to one account? We’re different accounts, maybe we both have Halloween related names but that’s about it. And yes, I responded quite fast but not because we are alt accounts, but because we are friends and he just told me on discord about this

 

[TheShape03]

¿Wydm se apega a una cuenta? Somos cuentas diferentes, tal vez ambos tengamos nombres relacionados con Halloween, pero eso es todo. Y sí, respondí bastante rápido, pero no porque seamos cuentas alternativas, sino porque somos amigos y él solo me dijo en discord sobre esto.

It's fine if you're going to join like me.. But did you have to have a similar name? This looks like a multi-account.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was checking the approval queue and I was not notified of any matched Email Addresses or match IP Addresses.

 

[MikeyMyersMain]

And as a bonus revision, I'd like to ask if it's possible to give Jason a Class 25 rating in lifting strength, due to him being able to rip limbs off people, including Freddy Krueger, a superhuman being, for which you need a 200 kN force:

I could of told you this on discord but since the moderator didn’t correct you, I will.

I don’t think he’d be class 25 for that. While it is true that Krueger is a superhuman whose durability should be above a human’s, you need to take into account the fact that by then Krueger was already very weakened.

And I think the force Jason applied was rather sudden than gradual, I don’t think Krueger was truly prepared for his arm literally being yanked off, heck, he didn’t even put up a struggle.

The article you linked states as follows:
“For one, it’s going to depend on whether the pulling force happens suddenly or gradually. Not just because a sudden force has a magnifying effect because of the impulse, but also because if presented with a sudden force (or if the person was unconscious or unaware) then the muscles are not going to have a chance to tense and absorb the impact, resulting in most of the force being borne directly by the socket. This I imagine would result in a significantly lower amount of force that the joint is able to bear since the socket joints have all evolved to work best with muscles stabilizing them.”

 

[MikeyMyersMain]

It's fine if you're going to join like me.. But did you have to have a similar name? This looks like a multi-account.

Sorry man, we both just so happens to have the same tastes, and I don’t see how we have similar names either.

 

[TheShape03]

I think the action he was performing was more to unlatch it from its position and letting it go rather than completely thrusting it downwards, and I find the interpretation of him pushing the boiler at a crawling speed on Jason as rather weak as opposed to him simply letting gravity do the work, which you could also interpret from the writing or how he gestured following the boiler's release.

I'd posit that you would have an easier time arguing that Dream World physics wouldn't operate 100% the same as the real world's rather than that.


Isn't this more of a standard for housing as opposed to workplace facilities such as factories and power plants? The location already appears to be irregular and not abide by these standards as we know them anyway, and they potentially may not even be accurate granted these scenes are supposed to represent the power plant Krueger worked at and not a residential building.

Admittedly the 49.03 m/s does feel a bit puzzling because the visuals do not represent that, but that's probably the main thing I agree with here.

EDIT: I recommend sticking to one account, please.

Oh I get it, however do we agree that visually the caldera is not falling at 49m/s? Maybe can't get a better height right now, since we don't have a Jason or Freddy scene where we can calculate the height of a floor with pixel scale, but visually it's not falling at subsonic speed, and it shouldn't be too far of the speed that I proposed. Could the level be lowered based on that until the feat receives another calculation? I really don't think he's anywhere near 500 kJ for the door breaking feat or Jason's other feats. By the way, would it be okay to give Jason Class 25 for ripping limbs? I've seen that some profiles already take that value into account, so I thought it could be used for Jason.

EDIT: In the same link that I sent with the height of the houses, although I hadn't noticed it, it says that a 3-story commercial building can be 39 feet, is it safer to use that? he didn't really look very tall.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Oh I get it, however do we agree that visually the caldera is not falling at 49m/s?

The big issue is that I was recalcing another calc with lore numbers and that original calc had flawed bases. Since as mentioned in your OP its assuming that the object is falling in a vacuum with no drag, which isn't realistic.

"Standard/average height of 3 storey house = 12 ft + 9.5 ×2 ft = 31 ft, so average height of three storey house is kept around 31 ft high from road level, if we add minimum 2.5 feet extension, then their average height will be goes upto 33.5 feet high."

Key point here: They are not in a house. They are in an industrial plant. That wouldn't confirm to civilian standards for floor height. However, I'm incredibly lazy and I don't feel like changing much so I'll run with it anyways.

So for a recalc

• Going frame by frame with what I got, the boiler falls for 3.09 seconds (34.65 seconds - 31.56 seconds)

So using the assumption that the boiler is at least as long as Jason (since it fully covered him) we can get a number rather easily. With a final value once drag is considered to be 6.47 m/s. Then including some other values alternate ends:

• 10 meters: 9071.8474 * 0.5 * 6.47^2 = 189,877.848413 Joules
• 20 meters: 9071.8474 * 0.5 * 12.92^2 = 757,165.413916 Joules
• 30 meters: = 9071.8474 * 0.5 * 19.37^2 = 1,701,864.51088 Joules

 

[TheShape03]

The big issue is that I was recalcing another calc with lore numbers and that original calc had flawed bases. Since as mentioned in your OP its assuming that the object is falling in a vacuum with no drag, which isn't realistic.

Key point here: They are not in a house. They are in an industrial plant. That wouldn't confirm to civilian standards for floor height. However, I'm incredibly lazy and I don't feel like changing much so I'll run with it anyways.

So for a recalc

• Going frame by frame with what I got, the boiler falls for 3.09 seconds (34.65 seconds - 31.56 seconds)

So using the assumption that the boiler is at least as long as Jason (since it fully covered him) we can get a number rather easily. With a final value once drag is considered to be 6.47 m/s. Then including some other values alternate ends:

• 10 meters: 9071.8474 * 0.5 * 6.47^2 = 189,877.848413 Joules
• 20 meters: 9071.8474 * 0.5 * 12.92^2 = 757,165.413916 Joules
• 30 meters: = 9071.8474 * 0.5 * 19.37^2 = 1,701,864.51088 Joules

Well, I think I agree with the 10 meters, I don't know if this requires more people supporting the downgrade or it can already be applied, but 10 meters seems the closest to what we see visually.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

And as a bonus revision, I'd like to ask if it's possible to give Jason a Class 25 rating in lifting strength, due to him being able to rip limbs off people, including Freddy Krueger, a superhuman being, for which you need a 200 kN force

This point was talked about more in this thread

Pretty much we came to the agreement that to get Class 25 LS for the arm feat, you need to:

"instantly destroy every muscle and do a clean rip. This means basically no one would every qualify for more than Class 5"

- Qawsedf234

It's good support for Class 5, but unless he destroyed every mucsle in the persons arm with the rip, I don't think it's Class 5. Plus, horses have pulled off human limbs irl, and even the strongest horses barely qualify for Class 5

Freddy is superhuman, yes, but I doubt he would require anything above High Class 5 to Low Class 10 LS

 

[Qawsedf234]

Made the blog. Just needs to be evaluated

 

[TheShape03]

This point was talked about more in this thread

Pretty much we came to the agreement that to get Class 25 LS for the arm feat, you need to:

- Qawsedf234

It's good support for Class 5, but unless he destroyed every mucsle in the persons arm with the rip, I don't think it's Class 5. Plus, horses have pulled off human limbs irl, and even the strongest horses barely qualify for Class 5

Freddy is superhuman, yes, but I doubt he would require anything above High Class 5 to Low Class 10 LS

I agree that Class 25 is exaggerated by what you mentioned, however, I consider the example of the horses incorrect, the same wikipedia mentions the following:

<<In the case of Damiens, he was condemned to essentially the same fate as Ravaillac, but the execution did not quite work according to plan, as the eyewitness Giacomo Casanova could relate:

Damiens' agony went on for hours as each torture was applied. When the horses failed to disconnect the sinews between his body and his limbs, his body, still alive, was quartered with a knife. His friend, the infamous Casanova, reports that he "watched the dreadful sight for four hours." "I was obliged to turn away my face and to stop my ears as I heard his piercing shrieks, half his body having been torn from him.">>

Which means that four horses pulling at once weren't able to completely rip off a person's limbs, and they needed to finish the job using a knife.

In fact, the execution of Ravaillac being quartered by horses mentioned on the same page probably only worked because his body had been tortured and exposed to things that probably weakened his body, such as boiling oil or molten lead, or torture that Ravaillac received earlier is also a good explanation.