Izayoi Kyoka CRT

[Tllmbrg]

Tllmbrg/SandboxIzayoiKyoka

vsbattles.fandom.com

Okay so this is an entire overhaul of the whole page
Current page is inaccurate and only uses the manga as a source while this adds all the content of the two novels stating the dude

I’d say the verse page should be renamed as well to “Demon City Shinjuku” as that’s the name of the novel series

 

[Tllmbrg]

@ZackMoon1234 @Zaratthustra @CrimsonStarFallen

 

[Agnaa]

While I can't evaluate most of it, due to lack of familiarity with the series, a few concerns stick out:

Those laser/missile feats should be properly calc'd and evaluated, Hypersonic feels like its been pulled out of thin air.

I wouldn't say that non-Nenpo speed is "physically", I'd say that it's "normally". Also, I'd probably specify that it's just reactions; and if you think it's combat/attack/travel speed as well, you should back that up.

I see no reason for durability not to scale to SS. We tend to assume that verses follow things like "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" unless the verse clearly demonstrates anti-feats indicating a lower durability.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I'll look over it later but till then I have to ask if the manga and the novels are canon to each other?

 

[Tllmbrg]

I'll look over it later but till then I have to ask if the manga and the novels are canon to each other?

As far as I understand from Wikipedia the manga takes place between the first and second book and is canon

While I can't evaluate most of it, due to lack of familiarity with the series, a few concerns stick out:

Those laser/missile feats should be properly calc'd and evaluated, Hypersonic feels like its been pulled out of thin air

Fair, it’s just that this is the rating that was on the page already

I wouldn't say that non-Nenpo speed is "physically", I'd say that it's "normally". Also, I'd probably specify that it's just reactions; and if you think it's combat/attack/travel speed as well, you should back that up.

Why would that not be combat?
He’s slashing his sword at it in order to deflect it also I’d like to mention that Nenpo is a mental energy so considering all the stuff he can conjure it should likely scale to combat

I see no reason for durability not to scale to SS. We tend to assume that verses follow things like "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" unless the verse clearly demonstrates anti-feats indicating a lower durability.

Nenpo isn’t really a physical thing though, it’s spiritual energy so I personally don’t think it should by default assumed to follow this
Not to mention that people who are equal to Izayoi get one shotted when he lands a proper hit (Such as the Sorcerer) so I think it’s evident that they’re frail

 

[Agnaa]

Why would that not be combat? He’s slashing his sword at it in order to deflect it

My bad, I'm dumb.

Nenpo isn’t really a physical thing though, it’s spiritual energy so I personally don’t think it should by default assumed to follow this

Yeah but it's being used to amp their physical strikes, right?

Not to mention that people who are equal to Izayoi get one shotted when he lands a proper hit (Such as the Sorcerer) so I think it’s evident that they’re frail

If other verse supporters find this accurate, then fair enough.

 

[Zaratthustra]

The only know supporter is Zach so in rest its to us and other users to see if its fair.

Agnaa is right, he uses his energy to amp/augment his attacks and going by the description of AP section then the 7B attacks are done through physical exertion so his durability should scale too as otherwise the body would break apart after one attack or even in the middle of it. If it was just an energy release like a beam of light (dragon ball like attacks), or some spells then you could say he just releases that high amount of energy without exerting his body.

 

[Tllmbrg]

If other verse supporters find this accurate, then fair enough.

For what it's worth wikipedia lists the novel's author also as the manga's

Nenpo isn’t really a physical thing though, it’s spiritual energy so I personally don’t think it should by default assumed to follow this

Yeah but it's being used to amp their physical strikes, right?

Agnaa is right, he uses his energy to amp/augment his attacks and going by the description of AP section then the 7B attacks are done through physical exertion so his durability should scale too as otherwise the body would break apart after one attack or even in the middle of it. If it was just an energy release like a beam of light (dragon ball like attacks), or some spells then you could say he just releases that high amount of energy without exerting his body.

Sort of, his strike contains that much force but it isn't really physical in nature
Check the second scan for Non-Physical Interaction, which alongside this one shows he's more so a gun that shoots said energy, so even if he strikes with that force he isn't really experiencing it since that energy doesn't abide by regular physics

 

[Zaratthustra]

I mean, it doesn't need to abide by our physics 100% to work cause otherwise we couldn't do lots of calculations. Characters otherwise would always show wind resistance when running/flying, or get a form of tunnel vision thanks to the high speed, or their attacks that can destroy cities would propagand through air/earth (vibrations) and create sonic booms. They should also show increase of heat the faster/more powerful the attack is, or them trying to stop someone weaker than them would normally pulverize the other party thanks to the difference in kinetic energy, etc.

The energy can be called Qi, Ki, Chi, Lifeforce, Magic, Mana, Spiritual Energy, Nature Energy, ''Spiritual Dimension'' or whatever the verse/author decided it to be, at the end of the day its an energy which is used to perform supernatural feats and in this case its compared to a exorcising power but at least 4 thousand stronger making its just a more potent energy than the normal one used in the verse. Which he still needs to release through the swing of his sword, or how it said there that he can break shackles that need megatons of tnt to be shattered. The only way I would see this is if the sword can support that much power and not explode or if he somehow releases that energy from his body without the need to have it circulate through it and just suddenly exist through the impact (example: he swing his sword and the whole energy of the attack suddenly appears at tip/blade of the weapon or him having like Victoria Dallon a forcefield/energy around the body that when active increase his power but also the durability as otherwise a 7B attack would create so much pressure/heat/vibrations that his body would be destroyed from the closeness of the impact zone (be a building, the earth or another character).

 

[Jibz]

Yooo i've been waiting for this, glad its finally out. Will read through this later woke up like 10 minutes ago and im groggy asf.

 

[Tllmbrg]

The energy can be called Qi, Ki, Chi, Lifeforce, Magic, Mana, Spiritual Energy, Nature Energy, ''Spiritual Dimension'' or whatever the verse/author decided it to be, at the end of the day its an energy which is used to perform supernatural feats and in this case its compared to a exorcising power but at least 4 thousand stronger making its just a more potent energy than the normal one used in the verse. Which he still needs to release through the swing of his sword, or how it said there that he can break shackles that need megatons of tnt to be shattered. The only way I would see this is if the sword can support that much power and not explode or if he somehow releases that energy from his body without the need to have it circulate through it and just suddenly exist through the impact (example: he swing his sword and the whole energy of the attack suddenly appears at tip/blade of the weapon or him having like Victoria Dallon a forcefield/energy around the body that when active increase his power but also the durability as otherwise a 7B attack would create so much pressure/heat/vibrations that his body would be destroyed from the closeness of the impact zone (be a building, the earth or another character).

Nenpo uses one's chakra/mental energy so it isn't really stored in his body as previously mentioned it's also in a sort of spiritual dimension (To further support this I'll mention for his training in the second book he was channeling the energy of the universe and its mention he can only survive that due to being a perfect conduit)
The thing is that it isn't really regular energy, it can just be expressed as such since as you can see in the energy manipulation scans he can hit multiple things with great force but without actually damaging them so really he could just be modulating it through himself so it will not harm him

I mean, it doesn't need to abide by our physics 100% to work cause otherwise we couldn't do lots of calculations. Characters otherwise would always show wind resistance when running/flying, or get a form of tunnel vision thanks to the high speed, or their attacks that can destroy cities would propagand through air/earth (vibrations) and create sonic booms. They should also show increase of heat the faster/more powerful the attack is, or them trying to stop someone weaker than them would normally pulverize the other party thanks to the difference in kinetic energy, etc.

I'd also like to mention that most of this verses don't have their power source directly stated to be beyond normal laws of physics so I feel like this shouldn't be compared to other cases unless they have similar mechanics

 

[Zaratthustra]

It doesn't matter how it is (physical or not), since most of the time such energy are not something physical at all - but just mental, soul, exoteric kind of energy. I mean it could be higher dimensional energy and still be used to calculate stuff because what it's calculated is the effect (feats) and not how they actually work or how metaphysical they are. Being a perfect conduit would mean that he's very natural at it or that he's a perfect vessel through which the energy courses - this doesn't change anything.

Here you have someone who has directly stated that he could break shackles that hold 10 megatons of energy and doesn't explain more...he either does it through hax but no, he breaks them which would likely be though physical exertion (as from his profile he doesn't seem to have anything that could do it beyond Spatial Manipulation but that is said to be done through a cut so with a sword and not breaking).

Anyway, I will let Agnaa and others continue on this, or if they have another idea that can help then its well.

Shouldn't that aura be put as electricity? Like maybe add limited Electricity Manipulation and Aura (Your explanation here).

Clairvoyance, I think your reference should be within the parenthesis.

Limited Healing should be in the power section and not resistance cause he's cauterizing his own wounds...not resisting to healing from someone else...which would be funny.

I think you should say in the Shapeshifting power that its only an optional power - adding just "Is an optional power" could do the trick.

Also, he deflected a laser...I have seen in a scan that it says the guns are particle guns which could mean they reach the speed of light or close to it...do you have more scans/statements regarding it?

 

[Tllmbrg]

It doesn't matter how it is (physical or not), since most of the time such energy are not something physical at all - but just mental, soul, exoteric kind of energy. I mean it could be higher dimensional energy and still be used to calculate stuff because what it's calculated is the effect (feats) and not how they actually work or how metaphysical they are. Being a perfect conduit would mean that he's very natural at it or that he's a perfect vessel through which the energy courses - this doesn't change anything.

Here you have someone who has directly stated that he could break shackles that hold 10 megatons of energy and doesn't explain more...he either does it through hax but no, he breaks them which would likely be though physical exertion (as from his profile he doesn't seem to have anything that could do it beyond Spatial Manipulation but that is said to be done through a cut so with a sword and not breaking).

His energy manipulation is more then likely how he broke it, which was already shown to be able to harm things without damaging them so

Clairvoyance, I think your reference should be within the parenthesis.

Disagree, I didn’t put a scan there so I think just putting it outside works better

Shouldn't that aura be put as electricity? Like maybe add limited Electricity Manipulation and Aura (Your explanation here).

Meh he produces an electric like effect not actual electricity so

I think you should say in the Shapeshifting power that its only an optional power - adding just "Is an optional power" could do the trick.

Also, he deflected a laser...I have seen in a scan that it says the guns are particle guns which could mean they reach the speed of light or close to it...do you have more scans/statements regarding it?

I thought the former was clear but sure
As for the second in what scan you see that?
I don’t recall any further detailing of it in the two novels, maybe there is in the rest of the franchise (I only read the two books starring Izayoi) but even assuming the laser is Light Speed I’m inclined to say it’s an outlier considering his other speed feats are nowhere near it nor that casual

 

[Zaratthustra]

Third scan from energy manipulation has that the cyborgs have ''particle beam weapons''.

First scan from Invulnerability Negation has ''particle guns''.

As these scans seems to be from cyborgs thought that if you have any other explanation/feat for them then maybe he could scale based on him redirecting a laser.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Third scan from energy manipulation has that the cyborgs have ''particle beam weapons''.

First scan from Invulnerability Negation has ''particle guns''.

As these scans seems to be from cyborgs thought that if you have any other explanation/feat for them then maybe he could scale based on him redirecting a laser.

There's no details over this weapons and they never fire it at him so

 

[Zaratthustra]

Sad then.

In rest, I think you'll have to do the calcs said by Agnaa, and the scaling of Nenpo to be resolved before the CRT is finished so more opinions are needed from other users.

 

[Tllmbrg]

@Ionliosite @DemonGodMitchAubin @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless

 

[Zaratthustra]

@Mr._Bambu Tllm was too shy to ping you, but don't worry, I will help him as the good senior that I'm.

 

[Tllmbrg]

This man has gone mad, do not listen to his words Bambu

 

[Mr. Bambu]

sounds good, shall cover my ears

 

[Tllmbrg]

@Zencha9

 

[Tllmbrg]

Alright time to ping staff I just see online
@SamanPatou @LordTracer

 

[Zencha9]

weebshit

Can't evaluate this at the moment, i'm gonna look at it later if the thread isn't finished by then

 

[Tllmbrg]

@Sir_Ovens @Abstractions @Maverick_Zero_X
Because dead and I blame Zara

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeet and delete.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I'll yetus deletus your fetus Oven smh

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump
I also updated Lifting Strength

 

[Zaratthustra]

Nothing major for LS so its good.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Bump, I'm just pinging people I see online
@Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @UchihaSlayer96

 

[SamanPatou]

I won't dive into the UES thing, but here's my thoughts on the rest.

The speed feat should be calced, yes.

Shutting down the cyborgs by altering their interal circuits should be techno manip.

I don't think he qualifies for invulnerability negation. The demons are immune to the energies of regular reality, but Nen seems to come from another dimension, which is the reason why it hurts demons.

Rest seems fine, save for some grammar error here and there.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I won't dive into the UES thing, but here's my thoughts on the rest.

That's the main issue me and Zara have rn ._.

Shutting down the cyborgs by altering their interal circuits should be techno manip.

Meh I don't think it counts here, he just sends energy in to move it
It's like sending electricity to fry circuits

I don't think he qualifies for invulnerability negation. The demons are immune to the energies of regular reality, but Nen seems to come from another dimension, which is the reason why it hurts demons.

Nen is psychic/mental energy, he even compares his thing to Espers with the only difference being that he can affect things outsides the confines of physics

Rest seems fine, save for some grammar error here and there.

Those being?

 

[Zencha9]

yeah the cyborgs knocking stuff is just energy manip
i'm fine with the invulnerability negation
and fine with everything else
and have no idea how to deal with the UES thing though so you should probably contact someone else

 

[Agnaa]

Tllm asked me to comment further.

• Statistics Amplification: Sounds good.
• Chi Manipulation: I could be talking out of my ass here since I only just learned that this ability exists, but I'd say that it qualifies, but not for the reason given on the profile. "Chakra" is not the vital energy itself, they're locations on the body associated with it. Nenpo qualifies because it involves the usage of one's spiritual energy.
• Energy Manipulation: I'm not seeing this one. Out of the four scans given, taking the first two together it seems to have been some damage/alteration to their internal circuitry without harming the outside, so maybe Durability Negation or Matter Manipulation would fit? Third scan seems useless. And the fourth scan seems to certainly be a weird event, but I don't see how it's Energy Manipulation; nothing on the Energy Manipulation page matches up with it.
  • Saman suggests Technology Manipulation for shutting them down, and I agree.
• Aura: Sure, this is an aura, but it's also Electricity Manipulation.
  • I later saw Zaratthustra suggest "limited" electricity manip, I wouldn't really consider it limited.
  • I think "the equivalent of an electric shock" works for electricity manip.
• Enhanced Senses: It's hard to tell without more context; this could easily be Extrasensory Perception.
• Purification Type 3: Spiritual purification is Type 2, not Type 3. The first scan doesn't support "purifying a possessed doll", a doll fires and arrow and then it's calm, nothing indicating a possession was removed, or that it was Kyoya's doing, or that it was due to Kyoya having the ability to purify beings, rather than some natural end of its possession. And the second scan doesn't really show spiritual possession either, some red letters on her arm are removed? That seems more like garden-variety healing.
• Soul Manipulation: Ignoring, for now, the grammar issues with the justification on the profile, the scan you linked literally says that the undead are soulless, why are you giving Soul Manipulation for that? Kyoya isn't moving their souls, he's returning their bodies to death, so that their bodies can join their souls in death. As for what ability this actually is, it's hard to tell. Could just be simple AP.
• Air Manipulation: I don't think this qualifies, it just seems to be a side-effect of his attack being strong, not an actual manipulation of the air. I only consider feats like this to qualify if they're particularly absurd (i.e. a character swings a sword once and it creates a typhoon). This is just ordinary "air moves because you punch hard". As another nitpick, you needing to relink the scan is why I put scans in the references themselves; they can still be clicked easily due to the reference preview thingy we have on the wiki.
• Invulnerability Negation: From the way it's explained, this seems more like Non-Physical Interaction. They're not affected by physical energy, but they are effected by spiritual energy. There's not an ability being nullified, just a spiritual attack being utilized.
• Non-Physical Interaction: Seems good.
• Light Manipulation: Yep, that's good.
• Heat Manipulation: idk about that chief. The first scan is mislabeled, it's not said to set things ablaze, the white light is just described as a "white blaze of light" twice. It seems like the light is just strong; light can set things on fire IRL after all. I'd just include both of these scans under Light Manipulation, as feats of how powerful it is.
• Self Pain Manipulation: Given how this ability is pretty commonly used on oneself, it seems strange to explicitly say "Self".
• Explosion Manipulation: Assuming that the fire came from Kyoya's ability and not anything else (which I can't quite tell from such a small snippet phrased in that way), this seems fine.
• Water Manipulation: Yeah that's pretty explicit.
• Shadow Manipulation: That works.
• Clairvoyance: idk about this since no scan's given.
  • Zaratthustra said that the reference should be inside the parenthesis, and I'm inclined to agree; they can sit outside, but it should be consistent across a profile. I disagree both with you not putting a scan, and thinking that not putting a scan justifies this break in formatting.
• Absorption: The scan seems to imply that his wooden sword absorbed this energy. Either I'm gonna need more context, or that explanation's gonna need to say that the sword's needed for this.
• Martial Arts: Sounds reasonable.
• Weapon Mastery: Yeah, this sounds above what most people could do with swords. But it's a needle spitting technique, not a needle splitting technique. He held a needle in his mouth and spat it at the enemy's eye.
• Acrobatics: The first three seem good. I don't understand what the last one's doing on the profile; it sounds like Sayaka performs that feat and I believe this character doesn't go by that name. And the description given seems off; the scan neither mentions nor implies anything about reducing fall damage.
• Instinctive Reaction: This is blatantly instinctive. Also, I'd use the word "despite" instead of "while".
• Shapeshifting: This scan is a bit too short to give us sufficient information; does the mask only shapeshift the wearer's face? If so, that should be noted on the profile. The current justification overall has some grammar issues, but since it might need to be revised anyway, I'll wait until then to offer suggestions.
  • I disagree with Zaratthustra about specifying that this is optional in the P&A section itself.
• Limited Healing: Sounds good.
• Resistance to Mind Manipulation: That qualifies.
• Purification Type 2: Sounds accurate.
• Intangibility: While I hate intangibility that works on rocks but not the ground, fiction keeps on doing that, so I won't hold it against this verse. But more importantly, I don't see anything in that scan about requiring a certain amount of spiritual energy.
• Sense Manipulation: This sounds more like Paralysis Inducement, usually "numbness" either indicates Pain Manipulation, or a lowering of the ability to move.
• Space Manipulation: I'd like some more context on this. Especially with the wording of the last sentence "revealing the stone god" it sounds more like a fanciful way of describing cutting something open.
• Teleportation: That's real teleportin'.
• AP, Athlete level physically: That's appropriate.
• AP, City level+ with Nenpo: Going scan by scan...
  1. Can you confirm that the Sorcerer is Ra? Might be an idea to just say "the Sorcerer" here instead.
  2. So Ra summoned "it" from within the earth, and "their" streams of energy failed to converge, and instead were redirected into the earth's crust. This needs a lot more context for Ra to scale. What makes Ra's stream of energy comparable to "it"s? What is "it"? Is Ra even included in "their", or is "it" crossing its stream of energy with another being?
  3. This just says that Shinjuku was leveled by a magnitude 8.5 earthquake, there's nothing clearly indicating it to the previous scan. I'd also indicate that the profile links to the Earthquake Power Chart page, so people can more easily find where the tier comes from.
  4. To go from "He owes half of his power to his father" to "He only has half of his strength without his sword Asura" feels like a leap to me. Even if I make the assumption implied by this, that Asura is this character's father, it seems weird to interpret that statement as just referring to the sword. Some of the earlier scans made it sound like he got some training or innate powers from his father. Yet another point where it would help if I actually knew anything about the verse; oh well.
  5. This scan explicitly says that the bolts and clasps of the restraints were still engaged (i.e. were still functioning, i.e. weren't broken), why does the text linking to this say that the shackles were broken? It just sounds like some matter manip/teleportation/reality warping/whatever weirdness.
  6. Well, that sure does say ten megatons of TNT.
• Speed, Athletic level normally: Should be "Athletic human". This justification seems to explain nothing, Seems more clear to just use the "is a trained martial artist" thing from earlier.
• Speed, Hypersonic with Nenpo: As I said earlier, this should be calced, but I do have something new to say; why do you think that Nenpo makes him faster? So far the statements of Nenpo have only indicated increased strength.
• LS, Above Average Human level: Should just be "Above Average Human".
• LS, higher with Nenpo: That checks out.
• Striking Strength, City Class+ with Nenpo & Durability, at least Wall level with Nenpo: Even though Nenpo can do other things, since it empowers physical strikes, it seems like it should cause a corresponding increase in durability, unless durability anti-feats are provided. Also the fall from 300 feet should get a calc so there's an exact value for it.
• Stamina: I'm surprised it's this ordinary, but I haven't read the series, so I can't really provide any feats to the contrary.
• Range: That avalanche feat is a little bit suspicious. It doesn't say that he sliced up the entire avalanche, it says he divided the wave of snow, leaving the two of them untouched, which doesn't actually require too much range. Certainly nothing on the order of hundreds of meters. Also, being able to teleport from the Himalayas to Shinjuku needs a scan.
• Standard Equipment: Citation needed. And are you really not gonna include Asura here?
• Optional Equipment: Since this stuff was mentioned earlier on the profile, I'd say this is good enough.
• Intelligence: This sounds fine.
• Note 1: Citation needed. Do you really think that over 6 years he didn't do anything that could've improved his swordsmanship skills? From my uneducated view, it sounds like there's a lot not accounted for.
• Categories: Pages that aren't on mainspace should not have categories. Please don't do this.

That covers stuff in the profile, now to respond to stuff in the thread that I haven't responded to already...

Not to mention that people who are equal to Izayoi get one shotted when he lands a proper hit (Such as the Sorcerer) so I think it’s evident that they’re frail

I'd like to see the actual scans for this to understand it better.

All posts about his amped strikes not being physical.

If you think that, you should remove Statistics Amplification and higher with Nenpo Lifting Strength from his profile. But those things have scans.... Why can't you just interpret it as doing both? He can fire spooky energy beams and can empower himself physically.

Meh I don't think it counts here, he just sends energy in to move it It's like sending electricity to fry circuits

????? Citation absolutely needed. The scan says that their internal circuitry was altered. That doesn't sound like how you'd describe sending in electricity to fry their circuits. I don't really know what you mean by "sending energy in to move it".

 

[Tllmbrg]

Chi Manipulation: I could be talking out of my ass here since I only just learned that this ability exists, but I'd say that it qualifies, but not for the reason given on the profile. "Chakra" is not the vital energy itself, they're locations on the body associated with it. Nenpo qualifies because it involves the usage of one's spiritual energy.

Meh, chakra is where you draw Chi from so

• Energy Manipulation: I'm not seeing this one. Out of the four scans given, taking the first two together it seems to have been some damage/alteration to their internal circuitry without harming the outside, so maybe Durability Negation or Matter Manipulation would fit? Third scan seems useless. And the fourth scan seems to certainly be a weird event, but I don't see how it's Energy Manipulation; nothing on the Energy Manipulation page matches up with it.
  • Saman suggests Technology Manipulation for shutting them down, and I agree.

He's sending spiritual energy to **** over those things from the inside and can impact things without actually damaging them which @Armorchompy told me to label as that
Neutral on technology manipulation

Aura: Sure, this is an aura, but it's also Electricity Manipulation.

• I later saw Zaratthustra suggest "limited" electricity manip, I wouldn't really consider it limited.
• I think "the equivalent of an electric shock" works for electricity manip.

I disagree, I think electricity manipulation should be strictly for actual electricity and not stuff akin to it
If you label this as the former I find it inaccurate since if someone say has the ability to absorb electricity it shouldn't really work on something like this

Enhanced Senses: It's hard to tell without more context; this could easily be Extrasensory Perception.

I don't think there was really that much more context, plus enhanced senses and EP could use revising

Purification Type 3: Spiritual purification is Type 2, not Type 3. The first scan doesn't support "purifying a possessed doll", a doll fires and arrow and then it's calm, nothing indicating a possession was removed, or that it was Kyoya's doing, or that it was due to Kyoya having the ability to purify beings, rather than some natural end of its possession. And the second scan doesn't really show spiritual possession either, some red letters on her arm are removed? That seems more like garden-variety healing.

We discussed this on Discord, biology manipulation instead

• Soul Manipulation: Ignoring, for now, the grammar issues with the justification on the profile, the scan you linked literally says that the undead are soulless, why are you giving Soul Manipulation for that? Kyoya isn't moving their souls, he's returning their bodies to death, so that their bodies can join their souls in death. As for what ability this actually is, it's hard to tell. Could just be simple AP.
• Air Manipulation: I don't think this qualifies, it just seems to be a side-effect of his attack being strong, not an actual manipulation of the air. I only consider feats like this to qualify if they're particularly absurd (i.e. a character swings a sword once and it creates a typhoon). This is just ordinary "air moves because you punch hard". As another nitpick, you needing to relink the scan is why I put scans in the references themselves; they can still be clicked easily due to the reference preview thingy we have on the wiki.

Fair

• Invulnerability Negation: From the way it's explained, this seems more like Non-Physical Interaction. They're not affected by physical energy, but they are effected by spiritual energy. There's not an ability being nullified, just a spiritual attack being utilized.
• Non-Physical Interaction: Seems good.

I think that can still count since it goes around physical invulnerability

• Light Manipulation: Yep, that's good.
• Heat Manipulation: idk about that chief. The first scan is mislabeled, it's not said to set things ablaze, the white light is just described as a "white blaze of light" twice. It seems like the light is just strong; light can set things on fire IRL after all. I'd just include both of these scans under Light Manipulation, as feats of how powerful it is.

Deleted the first, then I use the air manipulation since he disintegrate the undead in it

• Clairvoyance: idk about this since no scan's given.
  • Zaratthustra said that the reference should be inside the parenthesis, and I'm inclined to agree; they can sit outside, but it should be consistent across a profile. I disagree both with you not putting a scan, and thinking that not putting a scan justifies this break in formatting.

Kinda hard to give a scan, anyways sure

Sense Manipulation: This sounds more like Paralysis Inducement, usually "numbness" either indicates Pain Manipulation, or a lowering of the ability to move.

@Wokistan said it can work as that

• AP, City level+ with Nenpo: Going scan by scan...
  1. Can you confirm that the Sorcerer is Ra? Might be an idea to just say "the Sorcerer" here instead.
  2. So Ra summoned "it" from within the earth, and "their" streams of energy failed to converge, and instead were redirected into the earth's crust. This needs a lot more context for Ra to scale. What makes Ra's stream of energy comparable to "it"s? What is "it"? Is Ra even included in "their", or is "it" crossing its stream of energy with another being?
  3. This just says that Shinjuku was leveled by a magnitude 8.5 earthquake, there's nothing clearly indicating it to the previous scan. I'd also indicate that the profile links to the Earthquake Power Chart page, so people can more easily find where the tier comes from.
  4. To go from "He owes half of his power to his father" to "He only has half of his strength without his sword Asura" feels like a leap to me. Even if I make the assumption implied by this, that Asura is this character's father, it seems weird to interpret that statement as just referring to the sword. Some of the earlier scans made it sound like he got some training or innate powers from his father. Yet another point where it would help if I actually knew anything about the verse; oh well.
  5. This scan explicitly says that the bolts and clasps of the restraints were still engaged (i.e. were still functioning, i.e. weren't broken), why does the text linking to this say that the shackles were broken? It just sounds like some matter manip/teleportation/reality warping/whatever weirdness.
  6. Well, that sure does say ten megatons of TNT.

It is the thing Ra tried summoning in order to make the demon world take over ours, he failed doing that and just controlled the energy and made it wreck Shinjuku
The sword thing isn't that important
As for the shackles, they contain psychic energy in them so he disabled that with his Nenpo which is how scales

• Speed, Athletic level normally: Should be "Athletic human". This justification seems to explain nothing, Seems more clear to just use the "is a trained martial artist" thing from earlier.
• Speed, Hypersonic with Nenpo: As I said earlier, this should be calced, but I do have something new to say; why do you think that Nenpo makes him faster? So far the statements of Nenpo have only indicated increased strength.

How, he fights a samurai who should be that level
And he barely keeps up with him while his Nenpo is sealed which well shows that his speed is lower due to him reacting to the missile while he actually uses it

• Striking Strength, City Class+ with Nenpo & Durability, at least Wall level with Nenpo: Even though Nenpo can do other things, since it empowers physical strikes, it seems like it should cause a corresponding increase in durability, unless durability anti-feats are provided. Also the fall from 300 feet should get a calc so there's an exact value for it.
• Range: That avalanche feat is a little bit suspicious. It doesn't say that he sliced up the entire avalanche, it says he divided the wave of snow, leaving the two of them untouched, which doesn't actually require too much range. Certainly nothing on the order of hundreds of meters. Also, being able to teleport from the Himalayas to Shinjuku needs a scan.
• Standard Equipment: Citation needed. And are you really not gonna include Asura here?

Avalanche feat I labelled as that due to @Armorchompy , and TP range is already in the teleportation scan and then the fact the main setting is well Shinjuku
Asura is the wooden sword, I'm not gonna cite that lol

Not to mention that people who are equal to Izayoi get one shotted when he lands a proper hit (Such as the Sorcerer) so I think it’s evident that they’re frail

I'd like to see the actual scans for this to understand it better.

All posts about his amped strikes not being physical.

If you think that, you should remove Statistics Amplification and higher with Nenpo Lifting Strength from his profile. But those things have scans.... Why can't you just interpret it as doing both? He can fire spooky energy beams and can empower himself physically.

Fine I'll change his durability to City level

 

[Agnaa]

Meh, chakra is where you draw Chi from so

Chi's about spiritual energy. The scan you used for that says that some of the chakra handle physical energy, some handle emotional energy, and two handle spiritual energy. The last two are the ones that are used in nenpo, and are the ones that qualify for chi manip. It's not just any random chakra.

He's sending spiritual energy to **** over those things from the inside and can impact things without actually damaging them which @Armorchompy told me to label as that. Neutral on technology manipulation

The way they're shown to be ****** over is through their internal circuitry being damaged/altered which just seems like durability negation/technology manipulation.

Impacting without damaging is strange, but I don't see how that lines up with energy manip.

I disagree, I think electricity manipulation should be strictly for actual electricity and not stuff akin to it If you label this as the former I find it inaccurate since if someone say has the ability to absorb electricity it shouldn't really work on something like this

Well I think someone with sufficiently good resistance to electricity manipulation shouldn't be affected by it.

I don't think there was really that much more context, plus enhanced senses and EP could use revising

Then revise them.

We discussed this on Discord, biology manipulation instead

Update the page.

I think that can still count since it goes around physical invulnerability

Absolutely not, the important part is the mechanism. If you can't be affected by physical forces because you're a ghost, being able to hurt ghosts because you can wield spiritual energy doesn't let you nullify all physical invulnerability. Frankly, I wouldn't even index those other characters as having Invulnerability. It's just overly-explained Intangibility.

Deleted the first, then I use the air manipulation since he disintegrate the undead in it

idk man, have we seen those undead die before? They may just disintegrate into dust when they die, from the way it's worded. If we haven't seen them die elsewhere, then just put it as a "possibly" ig. And if it did happen, why did the Sorcerer survive? Durability? Out of range? Heat manip resistance?

Kinda hard to give a scan, anyways sure

m8 there's a reference for it, and it's referring to a specific event in the series, why would it be hard to give a scan of that?

@Wokistan said it can work as that

Well I disagree with him.

It is the thing Ra tried summoning in order to make the demon world take over ours, he failed doing that and just controlled the energy and made it wreck Shinjuku

I'm already not a big fan of "They redirected this energy beam so every energy beam they create scales to it", but it's extremely vague about who did the redirecting, to make things worse, in that scan Ra was showing an inability to properly control it, so assuming that he fully redirected it and so scales feels a bit wack.

As for the shackles, they contain psychic energy in them so he disabled that with his Nenpo which is how scales

How do we know that the psychic energy was disabled with his Nenpo, rather than just being ignored/bypassed? How do we know that disabling psychic energy requires an equal amount of spiritual energy?

How, he fights a samurai who should be that level

It's not clear that a samurai is being fought. "Fought a cybernetic replica of Yagyū Jūbei" means nothing to someone who doesn't know the verse, and even clicking those links, the scans don't say that Yagyu's a samurai.

And he barely keeps up with him while his Nenpo is sealed which well shows that his speed is lower due to him reacting to the missile while he actually uses it

Did he then blitz Yagyu after his Nenpo was unsealed? Is there any reason to believe that Yagyu isn't just Hypersonic too?

Avalanche feat I labelled as that due to @Armorchompy , and TP range is already in the teleportation scan and then the fact the main setting is well Shinjuku

I disagree with Armor. And you can include a piece of information twice when it's relevant twice.

Asura is the wooden sword, I'm not gonna cite that lol

Sorry, my last post was a bit unclear. Asura was not listed and should be listed. "A shinai" is currently listed, and should be cited.

Fine I'll change his durability to City level

Gottem.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Meh, chakra is where you draw Chi from so

Chi's about spiritual energy. The scan you used for that says that some of the chakra handle physical energy, some handle emotional energy, and two handle spiritual energy. The last two are the ones that are used in nenpo, and are the ones that qualify for chi manip. It's not just any random chakra.

So the scan works

He's sending spiritual energy to **** over those things from the inside and can impact things without actually damaging them which @Armorchompy told me to label as that. Neutral on technology manipulation

The way they're shown to be ****** over is through their internal circuitry being damaged/altered which just seems like durability negation/technology manipulation.

Impacting without damaging is strange, but I don't see how that lines up with energy manip.

What would you label the impact thing then?

I disagree, I think electricity manipulation should be strictly for actual electricity and not stuff akin to it If you label this as the former I find it inaccurate since if someone say has the ability to absorb electricity it shouldn't really work on something like this

Well I think someone with sufficiently good resistance to electricity manipulation shouldn't be affected by it.

I don't, it's not electricity

I don't think there was really that much more context, plus enhanced senses and EP could use revising

Then revise them.

No U

I think that can still count since it goes around physical invulnerability

Absolutely not, the important part is the mechanism. If you can't be affected by physical forces because you're a ghost, being able to hurt ghosts because you can wield spiritual energy doesn't let you nullify all physical invulnerability. Frankly, I wouldn't even index those other characters as having Invulnerability. It's just overly-explained Intangibility.

They're not ghosts or intangible, they very much interact with the physical world
If say a car tries ramming into them they won't phase through it something, the car just crushes at them and does **** all

Deleted the first, then I use the air manipulation since he disintegrate the undead in it

idk man, have we seen those undead die before? They may just disintegrate into dust when they die, from the way it's worded. If we haven't seen them die elsewhere, then just put it as a "possibly" ig. And if it did happen, why did the Sorcerer survive? Durability? Out of range? Heat manip resistance?

No, also the sorcerer has demon magic on his side and shit so either resistance or something
Idk why it should be a possibly

It is the thing Ra tried summoning in order to make the demon world take over ours, he failed doing that and just controlled the energy and made it wreck Shinjuku

I'm already not a big fan of "They redirected this energy beam so every energy beam they create scales to it", but it's extremely vague about who did the redirecting, to make things worse, in that scan Ra was showing an inability to properly control it, so assuming that he fully redirected it and so scales feels a bit wack.

As for the shackles, they contain psychic energy in them so he disabled that with his Nenpo which is how scales

How do we know that the psychic energy was disabled with his Nenpo, rather than just being ignored/bypassed? How do we know that disabling psychic energy requires an equal amount of spiritual energy?

I mean he evidently still directed it so

What else would breaking their hold mean in this context, it's psychic energy where he exerted his Nenpo to get rid of it
As for why assume it's equal, well in the PI scan they do explain psychic energy is the same as Nenpo outside the ability to affect things outside reality so

How, he fights a samurai who should be that level

It's not clear that a samurai is being fought. "Fought a cybernetic replica of Yagyū Jūbei" means nothing to someone who doesn't know the verse, and even clicking those links, the scans don't say that Yagyu's a samurai.

And he barely keeps up with him while his Nenpo is sealed which well shows that his speed is lower due to him reacting to the missile while he actually uses it

Did he then blitz Yagyu after his Nenpo was unsealed? Is there any reason to believe that Yagyu isn't just Hypersonic too?

The scan literally says he's a copy of the dude when using the two scans, also he doesn't because Yagyu is an IRL person so ig if you really insist on it I can link a Wikipedia page of him

He didn't fight him afterwards iirc

 

[Agnaa]

So the scan works

Yeah, it's just the wording that I'm taking issue with.

What would you label the impact thing then?

I either wouldn't link to a P&A page for it, or I'd link to Reality Warping, while the text on the page describes it.

I don't, it's not electricity

It seems close enough in function.

They're not ghosts or intangible, they very much interact with the physical world If say a car tries ramming into them they won't phase through it something, the car just crushes at them and does **** all

Oh okay, then invulnerability negation sounds fine.

No, also the sorcerer has demon magic on his side and shit so either resistance or something Idk why it should be a possibly

Since they may just be disintegrating because they died and stopped being sustained by the sorcerer or smth like that. I think this is reasonable since the text says they collapsed and then a moment later disintegrated. It may even be trying to recreate a video game trope of enemies disintegrating a few moments after they're defeated, without requiring heat attacks.

I mean he evidently still directed it so

[citation needed]

What else would breaking their hold mean in this context, it's psychic energy where he exerted his Nenpo to get rid of it

We know that nenpo can move objects around without damaging them, and can alter mechanical constructs in strange ways without effecting the outside of the object. Given that the bolts and clasps of the restraints were still engaged (something you'd need to make disengage to remove it in the first place), it's probably some form of teleportation/matter manip. "Breaking the hold" simply means "making it so it no longer restrains him".

As for why assume it's equal, well in the PI scan they do explain psychic energy is the same as Nenpo outside the ability to affect things outside reality so

Not "assume it's equal", "assume that disabling psychic energy requires an equal amount of spiritual energy"; i.e. you'd need to rule out weaker counterspells being able to work.

The scan literally says he's a copy of the dude when using the two scans, also he doesn't because Yagyu is an IRL person so ig if you really insist on it I can link a Wikipedia page of him

Oh, I didn't recognise him. I haven't faced a case of requiring a real-life person's statistics for a profile, so idk the best way to handle it. Maybe change the justification to "Could dodge attacks from a cybernetic replica of Yagyū Jūbei, a famous real-world samurai from the 1600s".

He didn't fight him afterwards iirc

Well then, sounds like you don't have a good reason to believe that Nenpo increases his speed :3

 

[Tllmbrg]

So the scan works

Yeah, it's just the wording that I'm taking issue with.

How you want it phrased then? (Yes I just want a sentence to copypaste, sue me)

What would you label the impact thing then?

I either wouldn't link to a P&A page for it, or I'd link to Reality Warping, while the text on the page describes it.

I think we should get more people to comment on this, it's rather vague so

I don't, it's not electricity

It seems close enough in function.

Spiritual energy, I'd rather not label it as electricity just because it acts similarisish

No, also the sorcerer has demon magic on his side and shit so either resistance or something Idk why it should be a possibly

Since they may just be disintegrating because they died and stopped being sustained by the sorcerer or smth like that. I think this is reasonable since the text says they collapsed and then a moment later disintegrated. It may even be trying to recreate a video game trope of enemies disintegrating a few moments after they're defeated, without requiring heat attacks.

Okay I'll just use the wound cauterizing as the reasoning for heat manipulation?

I mean he evidently still directed it so

[citation needed]

Idk why else would the energy cause an earthquake just in Shinjuku, it's clearly a localized event
Heck it's even noted ion the novel that it was oddly picky in what buildings got destroyed so there was some level of control over the stream so

What else would breaking their hold mean in this context, it's psychic energy where he exerted his Nenpo to get rid of it

We know that nenpo can move objects around without damaging them, and can alter mechanical constructs in strange ways without effecting the outside of the object. Given that the bolts and clasps of the restraints were still engaged (something you'd need to make disengage to remove it in the first place), it's probably some form of teleportation/matter manip. "Breaking the hold" simply means "making it so it no longer restrains him".

As for why assume it's equal, well in the PI scan they do explain psychic energy is the same as Nenpo outside the ability to affect things outside reality so

Not "assume it's equal", "assume that disabling psychic energy requires an equal amount of spiritual energy"; i.e. you'd need to rule out weaker counterspells being able to work.

I mean it's psychic energy, I think it's not too unreasonable to assume that to counter it you'd need an equal amount of force if you're using a similar thing
Also idk where you get it being matter manipulation

The scan literally says he's a copy of the dude when using the two scans, also he doesn't because Yagyu is an IRL person so ig if you really insist on it I can link a Wikipedia page of him

Oh, I didn't recognise him. I haven't faced a case of requiring a real-life person's statistics for a profile, so idk the best way to handle it. Maybe change the justification to "Could dodge attacks from a cybernetic replica of Yagyū Jūbei, a famous real-world samurai from the 1600s".

He didn't fight him afterwards iirc

Well then, sounds like you don't have a good reason to believe that Nenpo increases his speed :3

Smh, unless you argue a copy that's meant to replicate an IRL physically is randomly hypersonic evidently Izayoi is just an athletic person stat wise without Nenpo
I fail to see why I need to prove his speed isn't the same while without Nenpo, like it boosts all his other stats so why does it skip speed?

 

[Agnaa]

How you want it phrased then? (Yes I just want a sentence to copypaste, sue me)

"Nenpo uses one's spiritual energy"

Spiritual energy, I'd rather not label it as electricity just because it acts similarisish

I'd expect that someone who can resist electric shocks can resist the equivalent of an electric shock.

Okay I'll just use the wound cauterizing as the reasoning for heat manipulation?

Sure.

Idk why else would the energy cause an earthquake just in Shinjuku, it's clearly a localized event Heck it's even noted ion the novel that it was oddly picky in what buildings got destroyed so there was some level of control over the stream so

The thing Ra tried summoning decided to put its energy there.

I mean it's psychic energy, I think it's not too unreasonable to assume that to counter it you'd need an equal amount of force if you're using a similar thing

"Psychic energy" isn't something that exists in the real world, from which we can draw consistent effects to apply to fiction. And within fiction, you don't always need an equal amount of force to remove an enchantment, just a counterspell (sometimes generic, sometimes specific). I think assuming a specific function when the text doesn't indicate one is unreasonable.

Also idk where you get it being matter manipulation

From nenpo messing around with other matter. Here it would manifest as "deformed the matter so it could come off, and then reformed it (or didn't bother reforming it)".

Smh, unless you argue a copy that's meant to replicate an IRL physically is randomly hypersonic evidently Izayoi is just an athletic person stat wise without Nenpo

For one, it's a cybernetic replica; I can't really imagine that to be perfectly copying the real-life non-metal human in every way. But secondly, even if it does have the same speed, that just makes this encounter a speed anti-feat. We just gotta find which end is consistent.

I fail to see why I need to prove his speed isn't the same while without Nenpo, like it boosts all his other stats so why does it skip speed?

A lot of techniques empower strength and not speed. It's described as improving "fighting strength", not all physical characteristics.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Spiritual energy, I'd rather not label it as electricity just because it acts similarisish

I'd expect that someone who can resist electric shocks can resist the equivalent of an electric shock.

I'd not, it's just similar

Idk why else would the energy cause an earthquake just in Shinjuku, it's clearly a localized event Heck it's even noted ion the novel that it was oddly picky in what buildings got destroyed so there was some level of control over the stream so

The thing Ra tried summoning decided to put its energy there.

I mean it's psychic energy, I think it's not too unreasonable to assume that to counter it you'd need an equal amount of force if you're using a similar thing

"Psychic energy" isn't something that exists in the real world, from which we can draw consistent effects to apply to fiction. And within fiction, you don't always need an equal amount of force to remove an enchantment, just a counterspell (sometimes generic, sometimes specific). I think assuming a specific function when the text doesn't indicate one is unreasonable.

He was summoning the demon world, not really something with a mind (His plan was to terraform earth with that box, so the energy is something he's harnessing)
Anyways I think this is a matter of what other people agree to since both of our options are valid so

Smh, unless you argue a copy that's meant to replicate an IRL physically is randomly hypersonic evidently Izayoi is just an athletic person stat wise without Nenpo

For one, it's a cybernetic replica; I can't really imagine that to be perfectly copying the real-life non-metal human in every way. But secondly, even if it does have the same speed, that just makes this encounter a speed anti-feat. We just gotta find which end is consistent.

I fail to see why I need to prove his speed isn't the same while without Nenpo, like it boosts all his other stats so why does it skip speed?

A lot of techniques empower strength and not speed. It's described as improving "fighting strength", not all physical characteristics.

So instead of making his speed that of a fit person they make him hypersonic?
Seems like it'd be weirder for the samurai to be so fast lol, and I fail to see how it's an anti feat when this is an explicit feat without Nenpo
Also how is speed not relevant to fighting strength