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IVE GOT ANOTHER CHILD I NEED TO MAKE INTO A CORPSE | Bill Cipher vs Sora | 2-8-0 (um grace? Idk)

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Bobsican said:
Yes, they are weak to Memory Manipulation as disruption of them can compromise them... if the heart can be manipulated in such manner in the first place, we've already gone in depth on how memories are in the heart in the first place as a crucial part of them, this is more of a semantic than something to directly index, feel free to make a CRT if you believe otherwise. This is like arguing you can manipulate a concept to alterate their memories while lacking Conceptual Manipulation in the first place.
Click to expand...
I don't see the need on doing CRT, all of your arguments here is that Bill can't shuts Sora's mind because it is Conceptual Abstraction... hell that would be Type 1 by now, ever heard of Roots from MGKF? Yeah, that would be the case if this Sora Hearts really need the feat of conceptual interaction on basics abilities.

This is why i brought JJK for an example, they are the Cursed Energy... but they can still be attacked by normal abilities even if its not directly on their essence.
Bobsican said:
Never argued it falled as either of those two, but as you're conceeding what I'm arguing then Sora resists out of the semantics.
Click to expand...
1. Then it is not stronger, just a standard
2. When did i conceed?
3. Sora didn't resist Biology... are you really this hard?
 
Jeeeeepil123 said:
I don't see the need on doing CRT, all of your arguments here is that Bill can't shuts Sora's mind because it is Conceptual Abstraction... hell that would be Type 1 by now, ever heard of Roots from MGKF? Yeah, that would be the case if this Sora Hearts really need the feat of conceptual interaction on basics abilities.
Click to expand...
Actually, not really, that'd be news to me.

Jeeeeepil123 said:
This is why i brought JJK for an example, they are the Cursed Energy... but they can still be attacked by normal abilities even if its not directly on their essence.

1. Then it is not stronger, just a standard
2. When did i conceed?
3. Sora didn't resist Biology... are you really this hard?
Click to expand...
2 and 3: When you accepted the mechanic involved.

Jeeeeepil123 said:
Its a mechanism alright.
Its still not Layering, or Greater of an ability.
Click to expand...

Also reminder that the High-Godly and the fate stuff are unrelated, so the former is still a factor independently of the latter.
 
Bobsican said:
2 and 3: When you accepted the mechanic involved.
Click to expand...
Because it is, do you even understand what mechanics are in ability?
The transmutation link that you just gave, there's a mechanic explanation

That said Transmutation can do transform object into something, or the strongest one being can turn someone into an inanimate object.
This is mechanics of the ability, not saying that they're so strong they have 2x Layer Resistance if they withstand the effect, everyone would have get that by now, wtf.

And still not Resisting Biology.
Resist Transmute = Biology, wha??
Bobsican said:
Also reminder that the High-Godly and the fate stuff are unrelated, so the former is still a factor independently of the latter.
Click to expand...
What?
 
Jeeeeepil123 said:
Because it is, do you even understand what mechanics are in ability?
The transmutation link that you just gave, there's a mechanic explanation

That said Transmutation can do transform object into something, or the strongest one being can turn someone into an inanimate object.
This is mechanics of the ability, not saying that they're so strong they have 2x Layer Resistance if they withstand the effect, everyone would have get that by now, wtf.

And still not Resisting Biology.
Resist Transmute = Biology, wha??
Click to expand...
Given the context it falls under the same umbrella given you're even conceeding the quote from the very Transmutation page clarifying that transformations that are animate are still inferior to converting stuff to inanimate objects.

Meaning that Sora would resist it as it'd fall within the Transmutation resistance.


Jeeeeepil123 said:
What?
Click to expand...
Yeah, Sora has High-Godly type 8 immortality.
 
Bobsican said:
Given the context it falls under the same umbrella given you're even conceeding the quote from the very Transmutation page clarifying that transformations that are animate are still inferior to converting stuff to inanimate objects.
Click to expand...
So a stone isn't inanimate objects now?
Though, its still fall on the same standard.
Bobsican said:
Meaning that Sora would resist it as it'd fall within the Transmutation resistance.
Click to expand...
This is like talking to a wall by now, i ALREADY said, Bill's Transmutation became available because of Biology Manipulation... not that he Transmute first then Biology, but Biology first... and Sora doesn't have, and will not (until a CRT is made) have a Resistance over it.
Bobsican said:
Yeah, Sora has High-Godly type 8 immortality.
Click to expand...
The whole wincons for Bill is Incap, idk what you're trying to justify here.
 
Robo432343 said:
thats ur biased opinion
Click to expand...
Oh how so, can you tell me Mr. "KH Supporter"? Does your character have the Resistance that Bill Wincon listed?
AoE Energy Projection? Biology Manipulation?
That's very sad, talking about In-Character when your character itself doesn't manipulate something on his own and mostly relies on Keyblade that needs to swing and range to hit... i wonder how can it interact with Bill's Nothingness, oh oh, someone's getting destroyed.
 
Jeeeeepil123 said:
Oh how so, can you tell me Mr. "KH Supporter"? Does your character have the Resistance that Bill Wincon listed?
AoE Energy Projection? Biology Manipulation?
That's very sad, talking about In-Character when your character itself doesn't manipulate something on his own and mostly relies on Keyblade that needs to swing and range to hit... i wonder how can it interact with Bill's Nothingness, oh oh, someone's getting destroyed.
Click to expand...
All of this has already been addressed


about the nothingness thing
bills nonexistent physiology states this: All of his previous powers (though it should be noted that Invisibility, Incorporeality and Nonexistent Physiology are limited due to them applying only to Bill's Mindscape Form,

so bills NEP is not helping him here
 
Robo432343 said:
about the nothingness thing
bills nonexistent physiology states this: All of his previous powers (though it should be noted that Invisibility, Incorporeality and Nonexistent Physiology are limited due to them applying only to Bill's Mindscape Form,

so bills NEP is not helping him here
Click to expand...
That's true, but his inner-self is still in that body... if his physic body get destroyed, he can either regenerate ot stay in that form of nothingness like he usually do.
Everything12 said:
The Keyblade can interact with Nobodies, who lack Hearts have Nonexistent Physiology.
Click to expand...
Firstly, you're basically saying someone that can interact Void have NPI to NEP1, that isn't entirely the case.
Secondly, i don't see that being listed as its NPI to NEP (and there have to be a reason why its not there)
 
jeepil what are you talking about
they have NEP
 
Because someone with Nonexistent Physiology is also in an Incorporeal state so it's redundant to list both so most don't.
 
I am still in Bill's position, i see that i don't have the need to overly explained everything.

The whole arguments that opposition made is already, and repeatedly been refuted... there's no new arguments going on, and its all going round.
Until Sora have Resistance to Biology and Energy Projection, he will not winning.
 
Robo432343 said:
huh????
Not everything has to be FRA
Click to expand...
Its like saying "I like Doritoz, but i don't love Doritoz" both are the same (like and love), yet different.
Them shows some supports here doesn't mean or justified that they are on one of the character's position.

You'd be doing Vote Manipulation if you assume it that way.


Nehz doesn't have a count yet, but you puts him as Sora Votes just because he's supporting him.
 
Robo432343 said:
lmao even ford can come back from getting transmuted by bill😂😂😂
Click to expand...
What? He needs someone to do that, because all of Bill Transmutation is like some sort of a spell that can be cancelled by chains-reaction (Gideon kinda stated this iirc)
Robo432343 said:
worst transmutation user ever
Click to expand...
Atleast Bill is not that dude who all of his abilities relies on a sword to activate, and need time-interval to have the effects, lol.

Bill can just make Sora dances for eternity, and his sword won't be able to help (lmaoooo)
 
Bill used biology based transmutation on Preston that ONE TIME and now you are glazing that scene one scene

Most of Bills transmutation comes from turning people into gold or something which sora has resistance to
He is more likely to turn sora into gold and when sora comes back he will conceptually hax bill to death
Bill is NOT using bio transmutation as a first move, there are way too many scenes of Bill using the transmutation sora has resistance to
Bill is washed

It’s over
 
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Robo432343 said:
Bill used biology based transmutation on Preston that ONE TIME and now you are glazing that scene
Click to expand...
I say that as a justitication that all of his Transmutation is indeed Biology Manipulation based, never once have i seen this been refuted... not even by that you so called "KH Supporter" denies this.
Robo432343 said:
He is more likely to turn sora into gold and when sora comes back he will conceptually hax bill to death
Click to expand...
You're either dense or just wholefully not capable of comprehending the whole arguments.
Sora conceptual hax again comes from his Blade, that needs to swing and range to hit... he doesn't manipulate concept everytime he wants to, its not upto his decision and thought, its Keyblade.

He ain't coming back, even if he can, Bill can incinerates him with Energy Projection all over again.
Robo432343 said:
Bill is NOT using bio transmutation as a first move
Click to expand...
This is just a laughstock, i ain't repeating what i just said.
You here doing circular, thinking to be all knowledgeable.

Robo432343 said:
It’s over
Click to expand...
For Sora, yeah.
 
Like you have refuted any of my arguments without repetition, that is not even a refutation... that's yapping.

"BROOO HE HAVE CM1, HE SPAMS IT AND WIN!!!!!"
Ignoring the fact that it comes from his Keyblade.
 
Undylan said:
For reason above of course.

Sora has turned into dice and cards before. Why is Biology Manipulation different? Even then. He can still fight even so.
Click to expand...
By the pages, Transmutation is changing whatever matter to something else, while Biology Manipulation is manipulating it
 
So what are the wincons for both? If we assume Soras mind is CM1 can Bill even win?
 
ShionAH said:
So what are the wincons for both? If we assume Soras mind is CM1 can Bill even win?
Click to expand...
He could biologically mess up Sora in a way where he isnt dead but cant fight either, which would make it so his High Godlly Immo doesnt kick in, theres also stuff like subjective reality and the other weridmageddon stuff that Sora doesnt resist but how in character it is is questionable
 
Brogeefrong said:
He could biologically mess up Sora in a way where he isnt dead but cant fight either
Click to expand...
Yeah but Bill basically never does that, he only messed with prestons face once
Brogeefrong said:
theres also stuff like subjective reality and the other weridmageddon stuff that Sora doesnt resist but how in character it is is questionable
Click to expand...
Tbh none of those actually do anything that helps here since Sora is a shitty character who resists most of the lethal stuff
 
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