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IVE GOT ANOTHER CHILD I NEED TO MAKE INTO A CORPSE | Bill Cipher vs Sora | 2-8-0 (um grace? Idk)

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Robo432343 said:
sora has been turned into a card/die and still came back
his mind was moot
Click to expand...
You need specific showings of the mind being closed when turned, so send me them now ‘Robo432343’ if that is even your REAL NAME!
 
ShionAH said:
You need specific showings of the mind being closed when turned, so send me them now ‘Robo432343’ if that is even your REAL NAME!
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone here is using their real name.
 
Robo432343 said:
his profile literally explains how its combat applicable, if you dont think its combat applicable then make a CRT
Click to expand...
If a benefit of "Immortality 8" is combat-applicable to you, i recommend you to learn better.
And its funny that you literally asks me to read all of that just to find out that its not combat-applicable.

Robo432343 said:
YOU'RE TELLING ME TO DO BETTER? YOU'RE THE ONE WHO CREATED FAKE SCANS TO UPGRADE SHADOW FIGHT TO LOW 1-C ☠️
Click to expand...
How is this relevant to what we just argue?
And for your knowledge, i already confronted Ant and concluded that i'm just misunderstanding of the source of its scan.
If you're really that dense, why don't you search all my CRT... did i fake them all also? smh.

Robo432343 said:
By the time Bill is trying to transmute Sora he would already get conceptually haxxed
Click to expand...
I think already make my stans clear.
"It still need range to hit, and time-interval to swing"
 
ReaperAndBlues said:
I was talking about the "no shit sherlock"
Click to expand...
He already knows its not a real name (I mean, who puts "432343" mid-name?), you don't need to explain something like that... tho if you really want to, that's okay, but don't expect someone not gonna be weirded out by it.

Anyway, it also one of Bill's Character.
I can definitely see Bill saying "no shit sherlock" on someone who explains something he already knows.
 
Jeeeeepil123 said:
Heck, that's NLF.
You're basically saying someone with Social Influence (Fear) Users can match with an actual Fear Manipulation Users... that's weird, he can Negate Basic Transmutation doesn't mean he can also negate Biology Transmutation.
Click to expand...
Let me put it like this, this is like claiming that someone with High regeneration can't recover from a scratch, that's not the default, biological transmutation to a partial part of a body changes less than a full conversion to inanimate matter.

Jeeeeepil123 said:
1. I don't exactly get what you mean, what's the point in giving that scan?
2¹. Passive Fatw Sora is non-combat, and only grants Immo 8
2². Made a CRT about it if you're so unsure, its already on his profile, we can use it for VS Thread
2³. Why Acausal 4 scale to him is because of Nightmare Realm nature that is always lack, and Bill adapted to this for his own.
(The whole "deleting worlds nature" is because of thus Lacking sh*t, he don't like the way of nature works, and decide to remove it on his own)
Click to expand...
Regarding the eye-bat stuff.

The rest (bar the last point) seems to have been already addressed, if the type 4 Acausality applies here then the Fate Manip isn't a factor either, yeah.
 
ShionAH said:
You need specific showings of the mind being closed when turned, so send me them now ‘Robo432343’ if that is even your REAL NAME!
Click to expand...
Sorry for the double post, but uh... Sora resists Mind Manip and stuff per resising darkness.
 
Is this the main reason to claim conciousness being shut off? It seems on that regard they just fall asleep, even Bill admits he's not too sure on them no longer having a conciousness, which Sora resists.

Regardless, Sora's "conciousness" is tied to his heart thing, which is a type 1 concept and other things, meaning that Bill can't really disrupt that as he lacks the P&As required for something like that.
 
Bobsican said:
Is this the main reason to claim conciousness being shut off? It seems on that regard they just fall asleep, even Bill admits he's not too sure on them no longer having a conciousness, which Sora resists.
Click to expand...
Ford clearly shows that he was not conciousness when Bill turned him gold

He can also just shut off minds without needing to turn them into anything

There is many more feats like this.
Bobsican said:
Regardless, Sora's "conciousness" is tied to his heart thing, which is a type 1 concept and other things, meaning that Bill can't really disrupt that as he lacks the P&As required for something like that.
Click to expand...
"A heart is the metaphysical and abstract aspect of every existent being, being made of light and/or darkness, while also originating from aspects like memories, emotions and bonds of friendship or negative emotions."

No it only contains their memories, thats what the profile says

Even if we somehow assumed that it contained the "conciousness" the page states that the heart is extremely weak to attacks to the things it contains
 
Robo432343 said:
yeah but you still need CM 1 interaction to use memory manip on them
Click to expand...
8ty5v8.jpg
 
Robo432343 said:
you need cm 1 interaction to interact with soras mind
Click to expand...
Nope, the profile clearly states only Memories are CM1

"Mind and memory, though closely related, are distinct in their scope and function within cognitive processes. The mind encompasses the totality of cognitive activities, including perception, reasoning, imagination, emotion, and consciousness, serving as the overarching system that allows individuals to think, feel, and make decisions. Memory, in contrast, is a specific cognitive function within the mind that deals with the encoding, storage, and retrieval of information, playing a crucial role in how past experiences inform present and future actions. The mind integrates various components such as attention, consciousness, perception, reasoning, judgment, while memory is categorized into types like sensory, short-term, and long-term, each handling information differently in terms of duration and capacity. The mind operates on both conscious and unconscious levels, orchestrating complex decision-making and problem-solving, whereas memory involves both explicit (conscious) and implicit (unconscious) processes, influencing behavior through the recollection of facts and skills, respectively. Neurobiologically, the mind is linked to higher-order brain functions across various regions, particularly the prefrontal cortex, while memory is associated with specific structures like the hippocampus and amygdala, which are crucial for forming and storing different types of memories. Both mind and memory contribute to an individual’s sense of self and identity; the mind through continuous thought and self-reflection, and memory by linking past experiences to the present, providing a coherent personal history. Thus, while the mind is the broad dynamic system enabling a wide range of cognitive functions, memory is a vital component within this system, essential for learning, decision-making, and maintaining a coherent sense of self."

Chat GPT lol
 
ShionAH said:
Ford clearly shows that he was not conciousness when Bill turned him gold

He can also just shut off minds without needing to turn them into anything

There is many more feats like this.
Click to expand...
Eh, fair then.

ShionAH said:
"A heart is the metaphysical and abstract aspect of every existent being, being made of light and/or darkness, while also originating from aspects like memories, emotions and bonds of friendship or negative emotions."

No it only contains their memories, thats what the profile says

Even if we somehow assumed that it contained the "conciousness" the page states that the heart is extremely weak to attacks to the things it contains
Click to expand...
ShionAH said:
Nope, the profile clearly states only Memories are CM1
Click to expand...
Uh... no, the description applies to hearts as a whole, whose components include the conciousness, as much bodies without a host heart to control them aren't alive.
 
Bobsican said:
Uh... no, the description applies to hearts as a whole, whose components include the conciousness, as much bodies without a host heart to control them aren't alive.
Click to expand...
Not really, let me tally them up

Memory is Heart
That last quote literally confirms what I said.
 
Memories are a component, yes, but not the only one (as much the page reiterates light and darkness also being factors), ultimately the conciousness of characters is portrayed to be the heart itself, as the body is simply a host that does physical stuff for it, that's why they're type 2 abstract concepts in relation to their user, which is indeed listed.
 
Bobsican said:
but not the only one
Click to expand...
"A heart with no memories is already an empty shell."

I am sorry but I dont really see how you can debunk this quote, which clearly shows that the heart is only memories. I also did not see any kind of feat or quote that said the heart contained the mind in the page, so as someone who doesnt know anything about the verse I am forced to take the side of the profile instead of your words.

Anyways can Sora do anything before Bill snaps?
 
ShionAH said:
Okay. Bill can affect CM 1 then, so now are you gonna trust a Gravity Falls supporter rather than the page itself?
Click to expand...
vsbattles.fandom.com

Gravity Falls

For detailed information about this series, visit the Gravity Falls Wiki. Gravity Falls is a Disney XD show created by Alex Hirsch. It follows the adventures of two twins named Mabel and Dipper Pines, who are sent on their summer vacation to live with their Great Uncle Stan Pines in the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

ur not on there ☠️
 
Bobsican said:
Let me put it like this, this is like claiming that someone with High regeneration can't recover from a scratch, that's not the default, biological transmutation to a partial part of a body changes less than a full conversion to inanimate matter.
Click to expand...
I already said earlier, Bill's Transmutation is based on his Biology Manipulation... its main-ability is, Biology, do Sora HAVE RESISTANCE to this?
Bobsican said:
High regeneration can't recover from a scratch, that's not the default
Click to expand...
I wonder how is this even matches with what we just argued.
And there's no type that being justified in the profile, and surely isn't greater or higher than standard.
 
Robo432343 said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Gravity Falls

For detailed information about this series, visit the Gravity Falls Wiki. Gravity Falls is a Disney XD show created by Alex Hirsch. It follows the adventures of two twins named Mabel and Dipper Pines, who are sent on their summer vacation to live with their Great Uncle Stan Pines in the...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

ur not on there ☠️
Click to expand...
Open your front door lil bro, I swear I wont jump you
 
ShionAH said:
"A heart with no memories is already an empty shell."

I am sorry but I dont really see how you can debunk this quote, which clearly shows that the heart is only memories. I also did not see any kind of feat or quote that said the heart contained the mind in the page, so as someone who doesnt know anything about the verse I am forced to take the side of the profile instead of your words.

Anyways can Sora do anything before Bill snaps?
Click to expand...
Memories are "required" for a heart, but aren't the sole component, again, for proof of a heart being a proper conciousness I can just mention a NPC showing that, it's a just a heart with no body to host in a place where typically only hearts reach, showing that the body is irrelevant for a conciousness, instead the whole deal being about hearts on that regard.
 
Bobsican said:
Memories are a component, yes, but not the only one (as much the page reiterates light and darkness also being factors), ultimately the conciousness of characters is portrayed to be the heart itself, as the body is simply a host that does physical stuff for it, that's why they're type 2 abstract concepts in relation to their user, which is indeed listed.
Click to expand...
This still doesn't mean they have Unconventional Resistance.

Quirk collects Information, Memory and Soul of a person... does this mean they have Resistance to the aspects being listed? Of course no.
Giving the fact that not everyone have memories on their Hearts, and the P&A also list their Weakness on some cases such as Memory Manipulation.
 
Bobsican said:
Memories are "required" for a heart, but aren't the sole component, again,
Click to expand...
Again. You are completely saying no to a quote from the profile with no reason why. It is literally saying "Heart ONLY contains MEMORIES, If MEMORIES are not there the Heart is EMPTY"

If your verse contradicts itself it is not my problem, but giving a character complete CM 1 resistance to all aspects such as soul, mind, memory even though the game straight up comments on how it only contains memory is just unfair.
 
bro now i am even more confused

this is why u dont argue about verses ur not a supporter of

if u havent played KH or dont have a lotta knowledge on KH stop tryna debunk stuff
Make a crt or QNA thread
 
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