- 18,799
- 5,998
Creators and Creations
While reading vol 2 of the LN, i came across this statement, which was also in the WN, that basically got me to rethink how we tier the characters:
The context here is that Shiro and Kuro were talking about love, and that topic lead to love in another world, one of the heroes was in love with a woman from the 2-D world. Because Shiro looks at everything equally, she perceives the 2-D game world as no different from the 3-D real world and thus Kuro gets inaccurate knowledge of the 3-D world, cause Shiro didn't differentiate between the 2, there is no such thing as monsters in the real world nor affection points. but to Shiro there is no difference between a game world and reality.
We next get another statement that Shiro sees no difference between the living things she has created, the plants, earth nor the world itself:
Kaito goes on to argue that it's not that she is cold hearted for seeing everything as being equal, but that she loves everything equally, and thus isn't cold hearted:
Now you could take this all as her mindset, and not really that there is any sort of transcendence going on here, except that it's repeated multiple times that there is.
First it is stated that there is a clear and cruel difference in rank between a world's creator and their creations:
When Fate tried to take in Shiro's power, Chronois explains that Shiro's power is different from them, and if Fate tries to take it in, her very existence would disappear:
Considering the fact that this difference in rank between Creator and Creations, is shown to the degree that if a creation takes in Shiro, The Creator's power, their very existence would disappear, that basically proves that Shiro's existence itself, is above her creations, and the previous stuff about perceiving all her creations from the plants to the "world" itself as being no different from each other, is very much literal.
If this isn't already enough to convince you, once Fate ascends into the realm of World Creators, she is stated to have transcended time and space:
So again the realm of World Creators is one which transcends time and space, and Fate once she reaches that, is even called a transcendent God. So again all this stuff about Creators being in a different rank than creations and perceiving stuff from the earth itself to the literal universe as being the same, is very much about transcendence.
Now if all this wasn't enough, and for example you think world doesn't mean universe or something, later on in the series, Shiro wanted Kaito to ask for her help which he does, she gives him the perspective to be able to look down on the entire universe to observe her creating black holes and big bangs
-Chapter 847
With all this i believe ppl on Incomplete Shiro's level should be Low 1-C.
Higher Dimensions
If anything this is just support for all that i already said above, when Shiro's Epilogue was being explained it was stated that beings exist that can freely create higher dimensions:The after stories reveals that at the level of Makina, there are no differences in terms of strength:
-Chapter 938
The only exceptions are Shiro and Nebula, which i will get to below, but what this means is that clearly Makina is one of these beings who can freely create higher dimensions. Makina is far superior to Incomplete Shiro as she is just "Quasi-Omnipotent", while Makina is "Beyond Omnipotent", however this is another showcase of the transcendence that i have been talking about, we already have the notion of a fictitious game world being 2-D, and there being a real 3-D world, pretty clear what a higher dimension would be in all this context.
Nebula The Almightyslayer
In the afterstories, we are introduced to Nebula who was formerly the top of the gods. She is a being that is absolutely superior to all other beings
-Chapter 938
Now everything i already posted above being accepted, a generic World Creator would be 5-D, and Nebula is at the top of this hierarchy, and has absolute superior over 5-D beings, as she encompasses everything, and whatever she faces she will be a superior version of, all power is useless against her and all power is encompassed in her.
Nebula had no world of her own but subdued as many worlds as there are stars
-Chapter 938
And it's again later explained that whatever she encompasses, she keeps:
-Chapter 942
This means at a minimum, she would have the power equivalent of like what? Thousands of 5-D beings? Her power is weird, lets say we take this absolute superiority literally, would we say that she would vary between 5-D and 6-D, as her base level would be high into 5-D, but whatever she encounters she will just become superior to due to her encompassing them? That's just a hypothetical of what her tier could look like.
Another variable in this is again Makina and beings like her, Makina has control over a literal infinite army of "Quasi-Omnipotent" and "Omnipotent" beings, which if this is all accepted means she has control over infinite 5-D beings, her rival also had the ability to create infinite clones of himself:
As already shown above and by this, there aren't really definitive victories at Makina's level, as seen here it's literally infinity vs infinity, the only exceptions that break this logic are Nebula and Shiro, even if Makina has an infinite number of 5-D beings, she would still just get encompassed by Nebula.
What does this all mean for tiering? Not too sure, either Nebula is/can become stupidly high into 5-D, or she is 6-D, not sure on the latter.
The Epilogue
The Epilogue is already established to have a r>f relationship with everything, it's why Shiro is the be all end all, because compared to her everyone are just character's in a story. So obviously if the "Quasi-Omnipotent" beings are 5-D, The Epilogue and Complete Shiro become 6-D, if we take Nebula's absolute superiority as being 6-D, Shiro then becomes 7-D, which again not too confident about the latter.
Hax Implications
If this revision passes, the Supreme Gods will have smurf abilities, as i already posted in like the first section, Shiro gave them her own magic, with the authority she uses, thus that ability would be 5-D hax.The Gods in the final arc were resistant to any status effects because they were wearing Shiro's magic power, thus they have smurf resistances i think.
Alice Ultimate Battle Form, now becomes Low 1-C cause it will eventually let her beat Makina, and Alice has resisted Chronois authority given to her by Shiro, thus she also gets smurf resistances.
TLDR
- "Quasi Omnipotent" Beings become 5-D
- Nebula is really high into 5-D or 6-D.
- Complete Shiro is either 6-D or 7-D.
- Characters will be getting 5-D smurf hax
Accepted
- "Quasi Omnipotent" Beings become 5-D
- Characters will be getting 5-D smurf hax
- Makina is 6-D
- Nebula is 7-D
- Complete Shiro is 8-D
Requires More Input
- Kuro while being a higher dimension being that trivializes space-time, not being able to affect other "worlds/dimensions". If these worlds/dimensions are indeed higher dimensions which is the only thing which makes sense here, what exactly does that mean for Incomplete Shiro and Kuro's rating? When she destroyed those several dimensions, then would those be several higher dimensions?
Last edited:
