- 7,638
- 7,806
To clarify, you three are voting that the branching structure of hallways and doors is "possibly Low 1-C"?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Is My Little Pony Low 1-C? Let's Find Out.
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
- Status
KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,133
- 4,314
yes. this is what's being argued. the space containing all of them being low 1-C
- 7,638
- 7,806
Phoenks: "The complete structure of all of those doors would mathematically be Low 1-C"
What's being discussed right now is if a single multiverse can branch out to being many multiverses per our standards.
Even if we say that the Prime hallway contains all the branching timelines, that's still just one branching plane of infinite timelines.
- 7,638
- 7,806
At the very least, can @Maverick_Zero_X @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint explain how we achieve the following:
KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,133
- 4,314
you can request for it to be closed here then.
- 121
- 81
I don't want to be rude, but the thread consists of clear explanations as to why the MLP verse is 5D and they are simply denied.
I understand that the Alternate Futures are 2-A, but it is simply illogical to think that the Infinite Hallway is also 2-A since it is literally larger than any Alternate Future created and to be created, in addition to the fact that Infinite Alternate Futures are created at every moment and the Infinite Hallway simply contains them.
Assuming that it doesn't contain the rest of the Created Futures using an analogy with a Real Hallway doesn't make much sense, I mean, if you destroy the Infinite Hallway, you destroy the Alternate Futures and their branches.
Also, as user Phoenks mentioned:
The Infinite Possibilities branch individually into Infinite Possibilities, and there is a Structure that dwarfs and contains them.
But hey, once you have closed this thread, I would like to share an argument that reinforces the 5D of the characters (In the other thread).
I understand that the Alternate Futures are 2-A, but it is simply illogical to think that the Infinite Hallway is also 2-A since it is literally larger than any Alternate Future created and to be created, in addition to the fact that Infinite Alternate Futures are created at every moment and the Infinite Hallway simply contains them.
Assuming that it doesn't contain the rest of the Created Futures using an analogy with a Real Hallway doesn't make much sense, I mean, if you destroy the Infinite Hallway, you destroy the Alternate Futures and their branches.
Also, as user Phoenks mentioned:
The Infinite Possibilities branch individually into Infinite Possibilities, and there is a Structure that dwarfs and contains them.
But hey, once you have closed this thread, I would like to share an argument that reinforces the 5D of the characters (In the other thread).
- 31,644
- 34,679
Based on my understanding, it meets the R>F type of criteria in which there are an infinite number of worlds and the Infinite Hallway basically entire 2-A sized structures are contained as Mirrors given the "Infinite possible worlds containing infinite possible worlds".
- 7,638
- 7,806
Just so we're on the same page, you guys are saying that the following image depicts how one timeline branches into multiple 2-A planes.
@Qawsedf234 This counts toward Low 1-C?
@Qawsedf234 This counts toward Low 1-C?
Last edited:
- 7,638
- 7,806
I wasn't aware R>F being depicted was being proposed in the OP or discussed in the thread.
I'm not aware of any quote of "Infinite possible worlds containing infinite possible worlds" from the OP. These possible worlds are branches of each other. One branch timeline isn't smaller or larger than the next timeline.
Last edited:
- 121
- 81
Technically the "R>F" being is another argument that reinforces 5D, but it has nothing to do with Dreams actually.
- 976
- 2,144
I think it would be more like this:Just so we're on the same page, you guys are saying that the following image depicts how one timeline branches into multiple 2-A planes.
@Qawsedf234 This counts toward Low 1-C?
But imagine that going on for infinity.
I'm pretty sure that's the best way to describe the visual, though I may be wrong.
- 121
- 81
Precisely, that for example is fine, obviously just imagine that they branch to infinity (And that there are infinite probabilities every moment of time).I think it would be more like this:
But imagine that going on for infinity.
I'm pretty sure that's the best way to describe the visual, though I may be wrong.
- 15,472
- 7,172
No no no no. It should be straight up Low 1-C. The ones who argue for possibly don't know how the tiering works.
- 15,472
- 7,172
You miss how each of the timelines of the new planes makes its own 2-A plane, and so on infinitely lmao.
- 121
- 81
I agree, it should be Low 1-C, not "Possibly Low 1-C".
- 15,472
- 7,172
More like this actually (forgive my horrible drawing skills on MS paint btw).I think it would be more like this:
But imagine that going on for infinity.
I'm pretty sure that's the best way to describe the visual, though I may be wrong.
- 3,702
- 2,065
So....
Hallway have infinite doors, and each doors have hallway that contain another infinite doors, and it is so on and on to infinity
Infinity universes, that every universes have infinity universes= infinity×infinity or infinity^2
So on to infinity= infinity^infinity
Yeah uncountable infinity. I agree
Hallway have infinite doors, and each doors have hallway that contain another infinite doors, and it is so on and on to infinity
Infinity universes, that every universes have infinity universes= infinity×infinity or infinity^2
So on to infinity= infinity^infinity
Yeah uncountable infinity. I agree
- 5,637
- 3,658
Hmm since i already participated in the discord convo for this i might as well add on it.
As stated each door/choices leads to yet another 2-A multiverse due to how the structure works
And there are already infinite doors.
Initially this seems like infinite*infinite
But due to how a timeline is stated to extend infinitely
Each moment and choices in this infinitely expanding timeline branches to another 2-A structure.
As we consider timelines to have uncountable snapshots if it extends infinitely
This goes into the realm of infinite^infinite
Thats how it becomes an aleph 1 set
Which is although very reach it Should be noted to have a possibly low 1-C rating due to how it should be.
The dreamscape already recorded all of this including the doors that would appear after entering another door. So that alone makes it of a size equivalent to such.
Now this is a logical and general assumption so i only support possibly rating because this is the only evidence it has
As stated each door/choices leads to yet another 2-A multiverse due to how the structure works
And there are already infinite doors.
Initially this seems like infinite*infinite
But due to how a timeline is stated to extend infinitely
Each moment and choices in this infinitely expanding timeline branches to another 2-A structure.
As we consider timelines to have uncountable snapshots if it extends infinitely
This goes into the realm of infinite^infinite
Thats how it becomes an aleph 1 set
Which is although very reach it Should be noted to have a possibly low 1-C rating due to how it should be.
The dreamscape already recorded all of this including the doors that would appear after entering another door. So that alone makes it of a size equivalent to such.
Now this is a logical and general assumption so i only support possibly rating because this is the only evidence it has
- 15,472
- 7,172
Oh, and to prevent more stubborness...More like this actually (forgive my horrible drawing skills on MS paint btw).
The reason it is called qualitative superiority is that, instead of quantitative terms such as being 2 times, 100 times or even infinite times more powerful or greater, this type of superiority is typically justified by the nature of the superiority. The most standard case is dimensionality, where a difference in the quality that is dimensionality, implies the necessary quantitative difference. Another typical example is reality-fiction differences. Those are cases like viewing a plane of reality as mere fiction, like for example writing on a sheet of paper or a dream. They are assumed to imply superiority of a similar scale. Of course, the same levels of superiority can also be reached via sufficiently explicit quantitative statements, such as when cardinalities above countably infinite get involved in a manner that implies a corresponding difference in power/size.
- 4
- 0
My bad
- 20,606
- 17,607
Alright so here's a summary of what I'm working with.
A set is how many ways you can make up a group. Say you the number 4 and you want to make a set of it. You can organize that group in eight ways:
- {0 / Nothing}
- {1}
- {2}
- {3}
- {1, 2}
- {1, 3}
- {2, 3}
- {1, 2, 3}
- The set of all integers
- Any infinite subset of the integers, such as the set of all square numbers or the set of all prime numbers
- The set of all rational numbers
- The set of all constructible numbers (in the geometric sense)
- The set of all algebraic numbers
- The set of all computable numbers
- The set of all computable functions
- The set of all binary strings of finite length
- The set of all finite subsets of any given countably infinite set
What makes something Aleph-1 is the implication or statement that you would be able to make a Cardinal set of an countable infinite amount of Ordinal Sets (or in other words, a set containing an infinite combination of all sets). It's why a solid rating doesn't work in my view. A possibly rating is fine, but giving it a hard rating requires evidence that the OP has not provided.
KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,133
- 4,314
I think that makes sense then.
Current tally (for possibly low 1-C Dreamscape):
Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @FinePoint @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808
Disagree:@Deagonx
Neutral:
If I got something wrong, that's my bad
Edit: made a mistake, my bad
Last edited:
- 7,638
- 7,806
To my understanding from the FAQ, a single timeline is represented as a 2-D Line. If that 2-D line were to branch infinitely, it would create a 2-D plane. In order to make a cube, you need to stack infinite planes. If the origin timeline exists in plane 1, how can we say that these branching are able to create separate planes 2 and onward. I'm confused as to why the branching from one timeline is not constrained to the same plane as it's origin. This seems unprecedented on our wiki.
- 7,904
- 14,966
Setting aside for the moment the question of whether this door->hallway->door relationship is an increase in cardinality, I don't think the evidence we have suggests this is even what's happening.
"The infinite hallway is a metaphor for choice. Each door represents another choice you might make and another future it would create."
"Where are we now?" "A hallway, there's always a hallway."
I don't think this relationship indicates what is being proposed. If the hallway is a metaphor for choice, and the creation of futures is referred to purely in the hypothetical, there's no reason to believe all of the doors from the first hallway continue existing into infinitely many more hallways, so on and so forth. Once the choice is made, you cannot unmake the choice. Those were choices you might make and futures those possible choices would create. If the choice isn't made, the future resulting from it is never created.
Also, on this part:
The reason is that the total amount of universes contained in a collection of multiple infinitely-sized multiverses (even one consisting of infinitely many of them) is in fact equal to the amount of universes contained in a single one of the multiverses that form this ensemble: It is countably infinite, as the union of countably-many countable sets is itself countable, and thus does not differ in size from its components.
Put me at disagree for now.
"The infinite hallway is a metaphor for choice. Each door represents another choice you might make and another future it would create."
"Where are we now?" "A hallway, there's always a hallway."
I don't think this relationship indicates what is being proposed. If the hallway is a metaphor for choice, and the creation of futures is referred to purely in the hypothetical, there's no reason to believe all of the doors from the first hallway continue existing into infinitely many more hallways, so on and so forth. Once the choice is made, you cannot unmake the choice. Those were choices you might make and futures those possible choices would create. If the choice isn't made, the future resulting from it is never created.
Also, on this part:
What is the source for this? The only instance of the term "continuum hypothesis" I found on the wiki was a user blog. Looking at the wiki page for this hypothesis, it's a matter of great contention. I'd also say this portion of the Tiering System FAQ seems opposed to this proposal:
The reason is that the total amount of universes contained in a collection of multiple infinitely-sized multiverses (even one consisting of infinitely many of them) is in fact equal to the amount of universes contained in a single one of the multiverses that form this ensemble: It is countably infinite, as the union of countably-many countable sets is itself countable, and thus does not differ in size from its components.
Put me at disagree for now.
- 20,606
- 17,607
Because having an Aleph-1 amount of Low 2-C things requires a Low 1-C space. It's why having an Aleph-2 amount of Hamburgers would require an Aleph-2 space, since nothing until Aleph-2 would be able to contain that number.
KingNanaya
He/Him- 3,133
- 4,314
counted.
- 11,730
- 11,084
- Thread starter
- #268
Could someone close this. It's concluded. I'm not going to restart this debate over misconceptions from Deagonx. And, yes, Continuum Hypothesis is taken as fact on the wiki.
Here's a screenshot from Ultima on discord saying this. I don't know where it says this on the wiki, I just know it's true based on what I've seen from prominent users here and things like the MCU being accepted Low 1-C for the same reasoning.
Here's a screenshot from Ultima on discord saying this. I don't know where it says this on the wiki, I just know it's true based on what I've seen from prominent users here and things like the MCU being accepted Low 1-C for the same reasoning.
- 15,599
- 22,910
Done.
- 168,530
- 77,294
Wait a minute please.
If Firestorm808, Qawsedf234, and Deagonx all disagree with a full update, and DarkDragonMedeus, Maverick_Zero_X, and FinePoint agree, wouldn't it be best to use "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C", as Qawsedf234 suggested, as a compromise solution?
If Firestorm808, Qawsedf234, and Deagonx all disagree with a full update, and DarkDragonMedeus, Maverick_Zero_X, and FinePoint agree, wouldn't it be best to use "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C", as Qawsedf234 suggested, as a compromise solution?
- 11,730
- 11,084
- Thread starter
- #271
That was the conclusion.
- 6,594
- 1,713
No. I think it has something to do with making a new thread to discuss who scales to what.Okay. Thank you for the information.
Has that revision already been applied then?
On that note, this basically applies to everyone already 2-A, since this upgrades dreams to "possibly 5D", and everyone in 2-A already scales to that directly or indirectly. The feat itself isn't being changed, just the scale, so it should logically apply to everyone with the current tiers.
- 6,594
- 1,713
So, then should we make a thread, or is this simple enough as is?Okay. That seems fine to me then.
- 168,530
- 77,294
- 12,802
- 5,936
agree
- 5,637
- 3,658
Uhhh
- Status
