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Earth-199999 in its totality is Low 1-C but the sacred timeline at the center of it is 2-A
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Is My Little Pony Low 1-C? Let's Find Out.
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
- Status
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It's about an Aleph-1 Set. There's an infinite number of combinations that can exist within a set that is still bounded by that set number. An infinite^infinite number of universes is 2-A, but an infinite layered set of infinite universes that repeats infinitely can qualify for an Aleph-1 set going by my interpretation of the Tiering Explanation page.
The case here is that like with the MCU the above is entirely a user interpretation of some off-handed statements or ideas without a direct showing of that idea being correct. Which is why the MCU is a "possibly" and why I think this can also warrant that rating.
Georredannea15
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Yes that's what I suggested from the beginning
Georredannea15
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That's what I meant, the entire sacred timeline is Low 1-C, for some extra reasons not included here, but anyway
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To reiterate, one 2-A Branched Multiverse can't just keep branching and become 2 or more multiverses, right?
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Isn't it low 1-C?
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It has to repeat infinitely more than infinity^infinity
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Not how I understand it. Since it's just an expanding infinity.
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Right, but that's what the OP is trying to propose. That one 2-A multiverse branched infinitely and infinitely more to become Tier 1.
I disagree with this since for there to be multiple multiverses, those multiverses need to be, for a lack of better words, "parallel" to eachother.
Multiverse 2 can't be some later branch of Multiverse 1.
KingNanaya
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I thought the OP was proposing an infinite amount of 2-A doors that infinitely lead to another infinite number of 2-A doors which do the same thing as the last infinitely?
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The depiction of connected doors and hallways is a representation of a Branched multiverse since each door represents a different choice being made leading to another timeline (hallway)
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Pretty much how I think it works from what I've gathered, is:
The mane universe contains the Dreamscape, which contains all dreams in it.
One dream contains, in a part of it, an infinite hallway.
That infinite hallway holds infinite doors.
Each door leads to a recreation of the universe, including a Dreamscape.
Every person in those doors has dreams of their own.
Those dreams have the infinite hallway and infinite doors.
Those doors recreate the universe and Dreamscape, and all beings within those doors have dreams etc.
This all goes on ad infinitum, in a recursive loop. That should be the gist of it, though if someone more knowledgeable on MLP sees something wrong, do correct me.
Wouldn't that make the ininitial infinite doors infinity^infinity, or an uncountable number of infinities? Then, anything that contains them, like the Infinite Hallway, or dream itself, would be Low 1-C in size for containing such a structure.
The mane universe contains the Dreamscape, which contains all dreams in it.
One dream contains, in a part of it, an infinite hallway.
That infinite hallway holds infinite doors.
Each door leads to a recreation of the universe, including a Dreamscape.
Every person in those doors has dreams of their own.
Those dreams have the infinite hallway and infinite doors.
Those doors recreate the universe and Dreamscape, and all beings within those doors have dreams etc.
This all goes on ad infinitum, in a recursive loop. That should be the gist of it, though if someone more knowledgeable on MLP sees something wrong, do correct me.
Wouldn't that make the ininitial infinite doors infinity^infinity, or an uncountable number of infinities? Then, anything that contains them, like the Infinite Hallway, or dream itself, would be Low 1-C in size for containing such a structure.
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You are mistaken.
Let's take Discord for example.
Discord's dream structure is in the overall dreamscape.
Let's call the prime timeline (all the decisions discord currently made) and main hallway, Timeline 1.
Say that Timeline/Hallway 2 originates from a door in Hallway 1 where Discord went to the store instead of staying home. In Hallway 2, there is a door where Discord buys an apple instead of a banana. This pattern continues on and on.
This pattern does not create a Tier 1 structure.
Let's take Discord for example.
Discord's dream structure is in the overall dreamscape.
Let's call the prime timeline (all the decisions discord currently made) and main hallway, Timeline 1.
Say that Timeline/Hallway 2 originates from a door in Hallway 1 where Discord went to the store instead of staying home. In Hallway 2, there is a door where Discord buys an apple instead of a banana. This pattern continues on and on.
This pattern does not create a Tier 1 structure.
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I see that the majority is very confused about cosmology so I come to clarify some things.
The Alternate Futures/Doors of the Infinite Hallway contain within them other Infinite Hallways and Infinite Possibilities, in other words, each Alternate Future branches infinitely, and these infinite branches branch into other infinite realities and so on to infinity.
This, as other users already mentioned, is actually 2-A since they are branches of the same point.
However, what gives the Low 1-C at the verse is actually the Infinite Hallway, not the Alternate Futures, that is what I see that many do not fully understand.
Basically:
Alternate Futures = 4D.
Infinite Corridor = 5D.
This is because basically in the Infinite Hallway there are an infinite number of Alternate Futures and these Futures branch into more futures successively.
Let's start from the fact that in the Infinite Corridor the Alternate Futures are seen as mere doors, the Infinite Corridor itself is a much larger structure than an Alternate Future that branches infinitely into other Alternate Futures.
While the Alternate Futures branch infinitely into other Alternate Futures that in the end will end up giving 2-A.
The Infinite Corridor contains infinities of these Alternate Futures, which is even more than infinity^infinity.
The Alternate Futures/Doors of the Infinite Hallway contain within them other Infinite Hallways and Infinite Possibilities, in other words, each Alternate Future branches infinitely, and these infinite branches branch into other infinite realities and so on to infinity.
This, as other users already mentioned, is actually 2-A since they are branches of the same point.
However, what gives the Low 1-C at the verse is actually the Infinite Hallway, not the Alternate Futures, that is what I see that many do not fully understand.
Basically:
Alternate Futures = 4D.
Infinite Corridor = 5D.
This is because basically in the Infinite Hallway there are an infinite number of Alternate Futures and these Futures branch into more futures successively.
Let's start from the fact that in the Infinite Corridor the Alternate Futures are seen as mere doors, the Infinite Corridor itself is a much larger structure than an Alternate Future that branches infinitely into other Alternate Futures.
While the Alternate Futures branch infinitely into other Alternate Futures that in the end will end up giving 2-A.
The Infinite Corridor contains infinities of these Alternate Futures, which is even more than infinity^infinity.
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The idea of Alternate Futures branching infinitely into other infinite Alternate Futures is not my own opinion, that's literally how the verse works.
As you can see here, the ponies within the Alternate Futures have their own mind, their own will and their own convictions derived from the original character, remember that in the verse Dreams and the Mind are the same thing, and in those Alternate Futures there will logically be ponies that dream.
(I say this in case there was any kind of doubt) (The scans are in Spanish, yes, I hope there is no problem with that, anyway you get the point).
As you can see here, the ponies within the Alternate Futures have their own mind, their own will and their own convictions derived from the original character, remember that in the verse Dreams and the Mind are the same thing, and in those Alternate Futures there will logically be ponies that dream.
(I say this in case there was any kind of doubt) (The scans are in Spanish, yes, I hope there is no problem with that, anyway you get the point).
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But there's even another argument supporting MLP's Low 1-C, in case that can't be enough.
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I am completely in favor of the Infinite Hallway and Dreams get the 5D, and consequently that characters with a power similar to Princess Luna be of that level.
The Alternate Futures can still stay at 2-A.
Any opinion on this? So that this thread does not remain inactive for days again... and the result is applied
The Alternate Futures can still stay at 2-A.
Any opinion on this? So that this thread does not remain inactive for days again... and the result is applied
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As I have stated before, I am comfortable with the Dreamscape realm itself being possibly Tier 1 as it contains all the 2-A dreams of the inhabitants.
I see no signs of superiority between the hallways and the doors connecting them.
I see no signs of superiority between the hallways and the doors connecting them.
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Why not? The Infinite Hallway is literal, the timeline of the dreamer, the Alternate Futures are the Infinite Possibilities that in turn have Infinite Possibilities themselves.
It's like saying there is no real superiority between a Timeline and the Seconds.
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In what way are the Alternate Timelines inferior to the Prime Timeline? There is no distinctive size difference between them.
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What, no, the Infinite Possibilities that occur in a pony's life, in a second, in a millisecond, in a microsecond, damn, even in MUCH LESS than a nanosecond the Infinite Probabilities/Alternate Futures are formed that lead to other Infinite Probabilities/Alternate Futures... All of this in a single moment of time, the Infinite Hallway is colossal in comparison to that, we are talking about Infinite Alternate Futures that are formed in moments of time covering every possible possibility, and the Infinite Hallway simply contains them naturally and even makes them look like doors in comparison.
I really don't see how that doesn't show superiority.
That's even more than just infinity^infinity.
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I think he's trying to say that the prime infinite hallway containing the infinite recursion doors and hallways, would be 5D?
I'm having some trouble understanding him myself I'll admit. If I do get what he means though, he says it basically goes:
"Dreamscape>Singular Dream>Prime Infinite Hallway>Prime Doors and Infinitely Recursive Hallways and Doors (infinite^infinite 2-A)"
@Firestorm808 Would that make the Prime Hallway itself qualify for 5D due to containing the uncountably infinite doors?
That would just make dreams and the Dreamscape unquantifiably larger than the Baseline 5D hallway, but it is worth indexing if accurate.
I'm having some trouble understanding him myself I'll admit. If I do get what he means though, he says it basically goes:
"Dreamscape>Singular Dream>Prime Infinite Hallway>Prime Doors and Infinitely Recursive Hallways and Doors (infinite^infinite 2-A)"
@Firestorm808 Would that make the Prime Hallway itself qualify for 5D due to containing the uncountably infinite doors?
That would just make dreams and the Dreamscape unquantifiably larger than the Baseline 5D hallway, but it is worth indexing if accurate.
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- Thread starter
- #223
It would be the fact that it originally contains those doors within itself.
Yes.
Dream Realm contains infinite dreams across all of time. Each of those dreams contains a hallway. Call it the prime dream or whatever. The beginning of this infinite loop.
At the moment we accept that these individual dreams are 2-A for just containing the original hallway. So if this loop of hallways is "possibly Low 1-C" then all dreams will be "possibly Low 1-C"
Anyway, I don't know why this thread is still going...
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Oh, the loop starts at the first Hallway? I was under the assumption that the loop started with the infinite Doors, and that the first Hallway was low 1-C.
If that had been the case, a single dream in its totality, and the Dreamscape, would both be unquantifiably larger 5D structures for containing the hallway, and many 5D dreams, respectively.
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Just because the hallway has doors doesn't mean the realms behind those doors are smaller or are contained inside the hallway. That's like saying the rooms in a building are contained in the hallway because the hallway has doors to those rooms.
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Hey, us math men count as Staff too! Don't stiff us!
In any case, I agree with this. There's just no way around it.
In any case, I agree with this. There's just no way around it.
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As @Qawsedf234 said earlier, the continuous extension of doors and hallways in a dream is still just 2-A "Since it's just an expanding infinity."
KingNanaya
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he agreed with a possibly low 1-C though
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I see no staff agreement for a "possibly Low 1-C" MCU multiverse on the original thread.
Per @Qawsedf234 statements on the original MCU thread:
"None of the Multiverses are Low 1-C. What is Low 1-C is that the space containing those infinite multiverses have to be bigger. Which is why it only effects KEVIN's rating and no one else's."
"Having infinite multiverses is just 2-A. The space that contains infinite multiverses would be Low 1-C."
The Sacred Timeline "Tree" in the MCU is made up of infinite parallel dimensions (Standard Universe, Dark Dimension, Mirror Dimension, etc.) Each of them branch off into their own separate multiverse.
In our case, the doors and hallways are one set of branching timelines.
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Needs more context on how these dream spaces transcend regular universal spaces in the setting and their relationship to higher dimensions
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- Thread starter
- #231
Firestorm, not going to lie, you seem to be missing the point nearly every single time you post, showing that you don't fully understand what is being talked about (Something you admitedly have stated yourself), yet you still continue to be set on disagreeing with this thread regardless of your misinerpretations, and it's becoming quite annoying. Especially considering this was already agreed upon over a week ago.
Qawsed agreed with possibly Low 1-C MCU Holy Timeline thing for the same exact reasons being argued for Dreams in MLP here. He also previously agreeing with possibly Low 1-C in this thread already.
Every single door here is branching off into another multiverse. I'm not sure what exactly the argument you are making there is. It's just that the original Dream whatever would contain them all via containing the doors, which is already accepted on the wiki. Thus making a Dream a "possibly Low 1-C" structure.
The complete structure of all of those doors would mathematically be Low 1-C (The extent of that continuation), which is what is being argued, though.
The whole reason this is "possibly" is due to it not being competely certain that it is an infinite recursion.
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Please read up on the Tiering System FAQ and other relevant pages and/or threads about the topic. As has been regurgitated time and time again. "Transcendence" and whatnot of space-times and/or explict talk about dimensionality is not the only thing required to reach Tier 1 on this site.
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I'm not aware of any precedent on our site where a single 2-A choice-based multiverse can branch infinitely and infinitely more multiverses to become Tier 1.
Multiverse 2 or more can't be some later branch of Multiverse 1.
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- Thread starter
- #234
Because it usually wouldn't unless
1. There's infinite choices that each branch infinitely.
2. There's a structure that contains the totality of all the branches resulting from said choices.
In the case of Dreams, both of these are potentially true, hence the "possibly" rating.
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I could not find him agreeing to any "possibly Low 1-C MCU Holy Timeline" in the original acceptance thread. Please point it out to me: https://vsbattles.com/threads/mcu-possible-correction-or-upgrade-to-tier-1.151923/
Regardless, the holy timeline is made up of infinite separate parallel mutiverses of each dimension. (Standard Universe, Dark Dimension, Mirror Dimension, etc.) That is not the case here.
In MLP, the doors and hallways are one set of branching timelines.
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Other threads of significant verses below Tier 1 are a minimum of three staff members for acceptance.
"The review and approval of content revisions that affect tiers 1 and 0 or that are highly controversial should be conducted by a larger number of staff members in order to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed changes."
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At this point you might as well because Firestorm isn't budging no matter what we say
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Per the FAQ:
"Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on."
Let's say that one timeline is a line. The timeline branches off into infinity, creating a 2-A plane.
How can the first 2-A plane branch off into a second plane if it's restricted to its current one? You need a second separate branching multiverse to be the next plane in the sequence to even start make a cube.
"Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on."
Let's say that one timeline is a line. The timeline branches off into infinity, creating a 2-A plane.
How can the first 2-A plane branch off into a second plane if it's restricted to its current one? You need a second separate branching multiverse to be the next plane in the sequence to even start make a cube.
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There seem to be 3 staff members in agreement with “possibly Low 1-C” (myself, DarkDragonMedeus, and FinePoint). We probably shouldn’t drag this out indefinitely.
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