Is it Wrong to Try and Fight a Familiar of Zero?

[Naito-desu]

Saito Hiraga vs Bell Cranel

• Both are 9-A, Bell Cranel is in his second key, Saito Hiraga is his second key as well
• Speeds equalized
• Saito Hiraga has Derflinger, guns and modern weapons are restricted
• Both start 10 meters apart
• SBA otherwise

Saito scales to 0.0268 Tons, while Bell vastly upscales from 0.0393 tons so Bell has a 1.5x AP advantage

Saito:

Bell:

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Holy ****, I haven't heard that name in years.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Seems like Saito has a few possible advantages, like statistics amplification, and resistance to pain. The key to it is if his stat amp can overcome the AP advantage Bell has, while also beating Bell's Accelerated Development. Saito seems a bit more skilled too. Can his stat amp overcome the AP gap and Bell's accelerated development?

 

[Naito-desu]

I'm fairly certain that the 9-A key is right after he stat amps himself from 10-B, so I don't think he can stat amp further than that. He does have a Lifting Strength advantage which makes physical confrontations in his favor, plus magic absorption that would take care of Bell's fire balls. Bell has Luck though I'm not sure how it works

 

[Random-Helper323]

So Bell decisively has AP. Does lifting strength really match that?

 

[Naito-desu]

Lifting Strength means you can deflect blows better and also decisively win wrestles and grappling if it comes down to it. It's no AP but Saito still has the physical advantage in their fight

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So many since last time I saw Saitou that I honestly don't remember anything of him.

So Bell decisively has AP. Does lifting strength really match that?

Depend of how it used, in this case since both would fight with swords (well, in Bell case is a knife) then it would matter if they are locked in a sword clash, otherwise would probably be useless since the first moments of the classes are decided by the striking strength (AP) and then later on after the initial force end is that come to play LS, could be wrong but I think is like that.

I don't know how skilled is Saitou but with Gandalfr he could be comparable to this Bell? By this point Bell from what I could find alreasy trained two times with Ais who is one of the skill gods of danmachi world and also trained with Tiona who is a companion of Ais, Bell in this point also have fought hordes of monsters for hours and also won the war game against the Apollo family that were of a higher level than Bell family (they outnumbered hard, were stronger, more versatile and had better coordination/strategy), Bell is also accustomed to fight against people far stronger and skilled than him and his growth rate in combat is remarcable. However Bell could try to disarm Saitou the same way he did against Ottar Minotaur or against some adventurers.

The AP difference however is more than 1,5x since a bit after become level 2 Bell easily killed three minotaurs (the calc in his page is from one minotaur) and later fought against hordes of monsters far stronger than the minotaurs, after that were the war game against Apollo family. His Fire Balls are considerabluy stronger than his normal attacks but do to Saitou defence against magic they probably can't do much unless they are boosted by an uncharged Argonaut in which case Bell probably would overwhelm Saitou, though the heat of the Fire Balls can be dangerous since a weaker version of Bell turned to ashes the upper half of a minotaur with them and the first time he used an uncharged Argonaut boosted Fire Ball he scorched a infant dragon the size of a tank.

Bell style focus in dodge since most of the time the enemy is stronger than him, so he is really good dodging and is pretty agile, though Saitou probably is able to counter this to some extent with the senses that Gandarfl grant Saitou.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm fairly certain that the 9-A key is right after he stat amps himself from 10-B, so I don't think he can stat amp further than that.

Eh, it should be said that the 9-A feat is BoS Saito. He gets much stronger when he is (emotionally) closer to Louise and probably also generally gets somewhat stronger throughout the story.
For example, he was badly losing to Jack initially, while thinking Louise abandoned him. Then, once she appeared, this happened:

Then Jack was prepared to recite a new spell.

Seeing those tens of golems in front of her, Louise decided to give an order to Saito.

"Come on, in front of you are plenty of weaklings. They are your opponents, go do your job!"

Nodding, Saito immediately lunged at them wielding the katana in his hands. There was a huge number of golems and they were worthy creations of Jack. Their movements were abnormal and they could almost mimic the agility of their master, who Saito faced with much difficulty.

But...

Ur Slisaaz ansuur ken... (uru-surisaazu-anzuuru-ken)

Saito could hear Louise from behind intone a spell as she read from her book. In one beat, Saito was filled with an immense amount of strength and a completely different kind of tears covered his face.

The resonance of the voice of Louise was like a bell, Saito imagined in his heart.

Because of that voice, because of that appearance.

Louise is beautiful.

The most beautiful one that can exist in this world. She has completely smitten my heart.

Saito could predict the movements of the golems in advance. Their movements were clear in his mind, his blows done with the katana were incredibly accurate. It would be impossible to imagine that Saito's movements were from the same person who fought Jack earlier.

But... Upon hearing Louise's chant a mysterious feeling of invincibility invaded Saito's senses. It was truly as if he was born with wings on his back. His mysterious movements were the expression of power flowing in his body.

What happened? It seems as if the golems were moving slowly!

Saito precisely cut each of those stone guardians, and he pitched a war cry.

 

[Naito-desu]

Eh, it should be said that the 9-A feat is BoS Saito. He gets much stronger when he is (emotionally) closer to Louise and probably also generally gets somewhat stronger throughout the story.

Fair enough, I don't remember it well, so I'm not a super expert

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Eh, it should be said that the 9-A feat is BoS Saito. He gets much stronger when he is (emotionally) closer to Louise and probably also generally gets somewhat stronger throughout the story.
For example, he was badly losing to Jack initially, while thinking Louise abandoned him. Then, once she appeared, this happened:

Would he get stronger without Louise here though?

And as a side note at first glance how much heat would be needed to do this and this? (1:55 in the case of the second video, the first one is so short that isn't needed the second).

 

[DontTalkDT]

Would he get stronger without Louise here though?

Pretty sure it's the emotional connection that matters. Like, the time he alone fought an army of 70000, including several battalions of mages, instead of Louise he was almost certainly far more powerful than back when he struggled against single mages. In fact, when he fought the army his speed was noted to be so fast that the opponents couldn't even see him. Definitely above his usual paygrade.

And as a side note at first glance how much heat would be needed to do this and this? (1:55 in the case of the second video, the first one is so short that isn't needed the second).

Uh, no idea. Has anyone ever made a fragmentation value for flesh? I don't know one.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Pretty sure it's the emotional connection that matters. Like, the time he alone fought an army of 70000, including several battalions of mages, instead of Louise he was almost certainly far more powerful than back when he struggled against single mages. In fact, when he fought the army his speed was noted to be so fast that the opponents couldn't even see him. Definitely above his usual paygrade.


Uh, no idea. Has anyone ever made a fragmentation value for flesh? I don't know one.

I think I vaguely remember that scene, wasn't that at the end of the season after a importan emotional moment or something like that?

The dinosaur (actually infant dragon) one would be fragmentation of flesh? And with the minotaur one he turned to ashes the upper half of the body no? Wouldn't that need some high heat? Is mostly for another vs currently debating.

 

[Naito-desu]

4.4 J/cc for the Human Body

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[shansome]

I don't think Saito loses in swordsmanship; his main ability is mastering any weapon he touches and he mainly uses a sword.

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump

 

[Naito-desu]

Bump