• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Is Arrowverse High 1-C? Let's Find Out.

Status
Not open for further replies.
AxilityIsReal said:
I'll wait for you to explain how can you be 5th dimensional and thus being infinitely stronger than any other 4D character and still not be low 1c 😭
Click to expand...
Because it is the same as having 2-C power but being 3D, look at Goku for example.

There are beings that have extra dimensional axes but they can be screwed if you damage the three-dimensional axes.

By the way, I mention again that Myx from the Arrowverse has a 5D axis already confirmed by Myx we just don't know if they are low 1-C
 
AxilityIsReal said:
I'll wait for you to explain how can you be 5th dimensional and thus being infinitely stronger than any other 4D character and still not be low 1c 😭
Click to expand...
Basically the only aspect for the tier boils down to this: How many axis does the object you're effecting have?

Mxy is 5D, but to have a Low 1-C rating you have to effect a universal space that has five geometric dimensions. Its why Pre-Crisis Mxy who has more feats than CW Mxy is only 2-A, because the greatest thing he's shown to effect is a 4-Dimensional Multiverse.

Its why even if a character is like, 8th dimensional that it doesn't mean anything. Because you have to show they can effect a universal space of that size.
 
I read both of @Qawsedf234 and @Oliver_de_jesus answers, and I couldn't disagree more with the standard vsbw uses, it really changed in horrible ways.

I understand a character can existentially be 3D but that he could still have higher dimensional AP, but that doesn't defeat the fact that when we scale a character, we do that for vs battle purposes, literally that's the reason why powerscaling was born in the first place.
Meaning, that we actually care about AP, Durability etcetera, regardless of you being existentially 3D or 5D, if you have 6D AP then that's it, and there cannot be a denial for that. You'd be low 1C, period

Additionally, if you're composed by 5 spatial axis, you're infinitely bigger than any other lower dimensional life form, thus you're infinitely stronger than them, no matter what. If there's consistency in x or y being higher dimensional, then the default assumption is the infinite difference between them, so you give them a scaling. Are there cases with higher dimensional beings not being infinitely stronger? Yes, and how would you know that? Wait what? You're telling me that you can know that by having contradictions of x being higher dimensional in the show?!! 😮😮 That's crazy!! So there's no reason to think x doesn't have an infinite difference as there's no contradiction to that?! 😱😱😱 That's crazy if you ask me. These standards are horrible. Just like it's horrible how you could destroy 1cm of a 7 dimensional space and still you're not complex multi "because you didn't destroy it in an universal range", literally ignoring that characters could be planetary level or galaxy level or CAT LEVEL even in higher dimensions 😭

Y'all should change yo standards ngl 💀
 
AxilityIsReal said:
Meaning, that we actually care about AP, Durability etcetera, regardless of you being existentially 3D or 5D, if you have 6D AP then that's it, and there cannot be a denial for that. You'd be low 1C, period
Click to expand...
You would, I even said that
Qawsedf234 said:
asically the only aspect for the tier boils down to this: How many axis does the object you're effecting have?
Click to expand...
If you destroy a 6D universe it doesn't matter if you're a 2D stick figure. You'd have Low 1-C AP.
AxilityIsReal said:
Additionally, if you're composed by 5 spatial axis, you're infinitely bigger than any other lower dimensional life form,
Click to expand...
Our FAQ blog actually goes over this:

Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely larger than lower-dimensional equivalents?​

In a way, yes, though not how most would think when using this word. Basically, an arbitrary object of dimension n is essentially comprised by the total sum of uncountably infinite objects of one dimension less, which may be described as lower-dimensional "slices", each corresponding to one of the infinite points of a line. For instance, a square is made of infinitely many line segments (Lined up on the y-axis), a cube of infinitely many squares (Lined up on the z-axis), and so on.

One may think of it as a multiplication between sets: For instance, the unit square [0,1]² may be expressed as the product of two unit intervals [0,1] x [0,1], which itself can be visualized as taking "copies" of the first interval and lining them up along each point of the second interval, of which there are uncountably infinitely-many, thus forming a square out of infinite line segments.

Are higher-dimensional beings infinitely stronger than lower-dimensional equivalents?​

Unintuitive as that may be: Not necessarily, as a number of characteristics through which we quantify the strength or power of a character can remain unchanged when transitioning between higher and lower dimensions. For example: Mass is a quantity that is detached from the dimension of the object which it is inherent to, and unlike volume is not divided in units corresponding to each particular dimension (1-volume [length], 2-volume [area], 3-volume, 4-volume...). It is singular in nature and its units equally apply to all dimensions; whether it is distributed over an area or a volume only tells us about the span of space in which it is spread, not about the quantity itself.

As a consequence of that, much of the calculation methods which are used to measure strength apply equally to both higher and lower dimensions, as they do not care about the extra variables and often work with a single one of them. Examples of this are kinetic energy (Ek=0.5*M*V^2), force (F=M*A), work (W=F*d), and etc.

An intuitive example of that is found in the general definition of Work as defined in physics: In essence, as work itself denotes the energy applied to an object as it is displaced along a given path, the basic formula for calculating it only takes into account a single variable, and the path itself is treated as an one-dimensional object, regardless of the dimension of the space in which the action itself takes place.

Hence, a higher-dimensional entity can be both stronger or weaker than a lower-dimensional one, and thus, they are usually quantified based on their own feats, instead of dimensionality alone. If a character is merely stated to be higher-dimensional and simultaneously has no other feats to derive anything noteworthy from, then they are put at Unknown, and the same applies to lower dimensions as well.

Do note, however, that them not qualifying for Tier 2 and above doesn't mean they are "fake" higher-dimensional beings or anything of the sort. It is simply that being higher-dimensional does not inherently mean they have infinite power in the first place, as explained above.
Click to expand...
They are larger yes, but their AP is still determined by what they affect or what they transcend.
AxilityIsReal said:
Y'all should change yo standards ngl 💀
Click to expand...
That used to be the standards, then they were changed to the current ones.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
You would, I even said that

If you destroy a 6D universe it doesn't matter if you're a 2D stick figure. You'd have Low 1-C AP.

Our FAQ blog actually goes over this:


They are larger yes, but their AP is still determined by what they affect or what they transcend.

That used to be the standards, then they were changed to the current ones.
Click to expand...
Bro, no offense, but that FAQ is terrible and I entirely disagree with those explanations, they're genuinely wrong, but this is not the right thread to discuss this, and most importantly I don't even do text, when it comes to this stuff I always VC
 
AxilityIsReal said:
I read both of @Qawsedf234 and @Oliver_de_jesus answers, and I couldn't disagree more with the standard vsbw uses, it really changed in horrible ways.

I understand a character can existentially be 3D but that he could still have higher dimensional AP, but that doesn't defeat the fact that when we scale a character, we do that for vs battle purposes, literally that's the reason why powerscaling was born in the first place.
Meaning, that we actually care about AP, Durability etcetera, regardless of you being existentially 3D or 5D, if you have 6D AP then that's it, and there cannot be a denial for that. You'd be low 1C, period

Additionally, if you're composed by 5 spatial axis, you're infinitely bigger than any other lower dimensional life form, thus you're infinitely stronger than them, no matter what. If there's consistency in x or y being higher dimensional, then the default assumption is the infinite difference between them, so you give them a scaling. Are there cases with higher dimensional beings not being infinitely stronger? Yes, and how would you know that? Wait what? You're telling me that you can know that by having contradictions of x being higher dimensional in the show?!! 😮😮 That's crazy!! So there's no reason to think x doesn't have an infinite difference as there's no contradiction to that?! 😱😱😱 That's crazy if you ask me. These standards are horrible. Just like it's horrible how you could destroy 1cm of a 7 dimensional space and still you're not complex multi "because you didn't destroy it in an universal range", literally ignoring that characters could be planetary level or galaxy level or CAT LEVEL even in higher dimensions 😭

Y'all should change yo standards ngl 💀
Click to expand...
This is not the thread for that, if you have criticisms of the current standards that we have then create another thread focusing entirely on that and see what you get. This thread is focused on the arrowverse, not on that.
 
Shadowbeast said:
This is not the thread for that, if you have criticisms of the current standards we have then create another thread focusing entirely on that. This thread is focused on the arrowverse, not on that.
Click to expand...
Yeah buddy that's why in my last post I said that this is not the moment of doing it, but I had to respond to the other dude so yeah
 
It could still be put as a Justification for HDE that it has the Speed force in its profile, it simply would not give any new tier
 
Btw even if it's HDE, you don't need 10D attacks to be able to interact or affect with this HDE because it's 10 dimensional volume is not infinite or universal sized, I think it was discussed in the staff thread for Smurf haxs.

And don't ask if it's relevant.
 
We have enough staff votes to applied the OP. (As ByAsura said, if there are not two or more staff rejection votes to implement the OP, two staff approval votes are enough to implement it.)

OP has been applied , this topic can now be closed.
 
My guy, there are two or more rejections.

Myself, Qwasedf, Poenks and Firestorm808 are just four that I can name off the top of my head.
 
ByAsura said:
My guy, there are two or more rejections.

Myself, Qwasedf and Poenks are just three that I can name off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
As you said before, you don't have enough knowledge to vote on this issue.

As Poenks wrote on his wall, his vote is not counted as a staff vote.

Qwasedf did not directly say whether he agreed or disagreed
 
And then I said I did.

My mistake then.

He said a possibly rating is fine, as did Planck.
 
Planck69 said High1-C is fine, but suggested a Likely/Possibly rating if it didn't seem to be enough for the entire tier.

So there are 3 accept votes (One of them is Likely/Possibly) and two dissagre votes.

As you say, if there are two or more staff votes of rejection to implement the OP, more than two votes of acceptance are required.

And we have more than 2 accept votes.

So there are enough votes to implement the OP.
 
There does not seem to be sufficiently uniform staff agreement for this revision, so I will revert all of your related edits. My apologies.
 
there are 3 accept votes (One of them is Likely/Possibly) and two dissagre votes.

Are there enough votes to implement it in this case?

Or do we have to wait for more staff votes?

I wrote to the staff listed as knowledgeable about Tier 1 and to the staff who are frequently active, but most of them ignored, did not comment because they had no knowledge of the verse, or said they did not have enough knowledge for Tier 1.
 
GFArrow said:
there are 3 accept votes (One of them is Likely/Possibly) and two dissagre votes.

Are there enough votes to implement it in this case?

Or do we have to wait for more staff votes?

I wrote to the staff listed as knowledgeable about Tier 1 and to the staff who are frequently active, but most of them ignored, did not comment because they had no knowledge of the verse, or said they did not have enough knowledge for Tier 1.
Click to expand...
3 accept vs 2 disagree is not enough to implement any CRT, let alone one that is regarding a Tier 1 upgrade.
 
“However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.”

You can ask Ultima to confirm this, but basically one needs to prove that a higher-D construct is not compactified. This can be done if a given size is stated for its dimensions which is too big for it to be considered compactified. There is discussion about where exactly this lower limit lays but logically infinity is far above it.
 
AxilityIsReal said:
I'll wait for you to explain how can you be 5th dimensional and thus being infinitely stronger than any other 4D character and still not be low 1c 😭
Click to expand...

There are different ideas of higher dimensions in science and not all of them equate to higher infinities. Compact dimensions for example wouldn't be used for tiers. We need evidence that the higher dimensions are working in a system that justifies higher infinities, just being higher dimensional is not evidence on its own for a tiering
 
Andytrenom said:
Man it's been a while since I visited this site, I'm not sure if there have been changed to the dimensional tiering standards since then
Click to expand...
still the QS standards, if you're familiar with those. although, there may be an upcoming change to those in the coming months as there is a revision going on
vsbattles.com

On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System

Or, "Why did I make this system? Am I stupid?" This thread has certainly been a long time coming. And though its placement in the general discussion board makes this clear already, it is probably best that I say it explicitly: I don't actually have any interest in bringing any changes to the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

InfNoyan
  • Locked
Cw flash big tier upgrade (speed force)
2
Replies
74
Views
2K
ByAsura
ByAsura
ByArrow
Arrowverse CRT: Forces Of Nature
Replies
19
Views
1K
FinePoint
FinePoint
BEYONDER19999
Green Arrow | The Spectre (CW) Tier Upgrade
Replies
25
Views
2K
Baabasaplar95
Baabasaplar95
ByArrow
Arrowverse CRT: FTL for Speedsters
Replies
18
Views
2K
Lynieryz
Lynieryz
ByArrow
Arrowverse CRT: Extra Temporal Dimension
Replies
3
Views
709
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Back
Top