is all this true?

[CrystalValley]

No, it's not. Ten Crowns work on everything, what you mean is Potnia Theron which only works on creatures born on earth, whereas Ten Crowns doesn't work like that.

also it only seems to be that specific part of Potnia Theron. the can't defy the Earth Mother Goddess part, since other uses of Potnia Theron have been used to reshape the Moon Cell. so it only seems that specific function of not defying is limited only to Earth. the rest of Potnia Theron is free game let alone Ten Crowns.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm surprised this threas hasn't been closed lel

 

[God243]

also it only seems to be that specific part of Potnia Theron. the can't defy the Earth Mother Goddess part, since other uses of Potnia Theron have been used to reshape the Moon Cell. so it only seems that specific function of not defying is limited only to Earth. the rest of Potnia Theron is free game let alone Ten Crowns.

I assume that's the last question I have. i was watching a thread on Comicvine a guy posted scans stating that the moon cell is made of spiritron or something. and spiritrons can't cross spacetime or something. in a nutshell that the moon cell is not multiversal.

 

[CrystalValley]

I assume that's the last question I have. i was watching a thread on Comicvine a guy posted scans stating that the moon cell is made of spiritron or something. and spiritrons can't cross spacetime or something. in a nutshell that the moon cell is not multiversal.

first off, that's Extella which is different from Extra. second, that doesn't have anything to do with being multiversal at all. third, literally all of the scans I sent. it's just bias basement dwellers who dedicate their lives to trying to make their favorite fictional series not lose by trying to downplay others by using infinite logical fallacies and not making even the slightest bit of sense. Twice in Last Encore was going to end the multiverse with the Moon Cell even because Buddha hacked into it with his NP before leaving.

so there's even more evidence.

 

[God243]

first off, that's Extella which is different from Extra. second, that doesn't have anything to do with being multiversal at all. third, literally all of the scans I sent. it's just bias basement dwellers who dedicate their lives to trying to make their favorite fictional series not lose by trying to downplay others by using infinite logical fallacies and not making even the slightest bit of sense. Twice in Last Encore was going to end the multiverse with the Moon Cell even because Buddha hacked into it with his NP before leaving.

so there's even more evidence.

Sinbad vs CCC Gilgamesh - Battles - Comic Vine

Who Wins

comicvine.gamespot.com

this posts proved they are Gilgamesh haters lol.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/team-natsu-ft-100-year-quest-vs-gilgamesh-fate.932997/page-3

now correct me if i'm wrong, the thing that the solar system would have collapsed comes from Extella right?.
anyway i saw the multiversal nastu

 

[CrystalValley]

Sinbad vs CCC Gilgamesh - Battles - Comic Vine

Who Wins

comicvine.gamespot.com

this posts proved they are Gilgamesh haters lol.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/team-natsu-ft-100-year-quest-vs-gilgamesh-fate.932997/page-3

now correct me if i'm wrong, the thing that the solar system would have collapsed comes from Extella right?.
anyway i saw the multiversal nastu

yes. but again, the normal dimension of reality being unable to handle constantly increasing timelines has no bearing on the Moon Cell that has different laws, higher dimensions, possibilities that don't exist yet that it simulates and stores etc. so it really doesn't matter period and doesn't affect the rating of the Moon Cell.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

anyway i saw the multiversal nastu

Hahahahahahahah so you found the thread

 

[God243]

Hahahahahahahah so you found the thread

but the space battle is strange no one is multiversal except Goku or natsu.

Counter-arguments for this
Yeah dude, your "universe sized planet" was about to be nuked by a random meteor from outer space summoned by shinjuku archer. And fate extra universe is a domain that encompasses time and space. also they said on space battle that the human limit is to the solar system?

yes. but again, the normal dimension of reality being unable to handle constantly increasing timelines has no bearing on the Moon Cell that has different laws, higher dimensions, possibilities that don't exist yet that it simulates and stores etc. so it really doesn't matter period and doesn't affect the rating of the Moon Cell.

however the guys were talking about the Moon Cell having multiple layer defenses or something.

 

[CrystalValley]

but the space battle is strange no one is multiversal except Goku or natsu.

Counter-arguments for this
Yeah dude, your "universe sized planet" was about to be nuked by a random meteor from outer space summoned by shinjuku archer. And fate extra universe is a domain that encompasses time and space. also they said on space battle that the human limit is to the solar system?



however the guys were talking about the Moon Cell having multiple layer defenses or something.

GO feats don't really have any bearing on older canon, but even then that just sounds like a feat for the meteor. could have special properties and whatnot.

the Universe of Record encompasses a different form of space-time. yeah? what about it? that doesn't really mean anything. i don't get the point here.

human limit being the solar system I've never heard of, let alone the context around it. but the solar system is already multiversal due to what the Moon Cell contains and Gaia, so that isn't saying much. it's much bigger than our real solar system. and Gilgamesh left the Moon Cell and flew across the galaxy in CCC, so those characters clearly aren't limited to the solar system if by limit it means they can't travel beyond it. Kiara and Buddha were also stated to be gods of universal scale and power. this is especially impressive considering how big we know the Nasuverse solar system to be due to the Moon Cell and Gaia alone.

A Bodhisattva is a Deva [deity] of universe’s scale and power, and can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System. https://www.tmdict.com/en/a.angra-mainyu-ccc

 

[God243]

GO feats don't really have any bearing on older canon, but even then that just sounds like a feat for the meteor. could have special properties and whatnot.

the Universe of Record encompasses a different form of space-time. yeah? what about it? that doesn't really mean anything. i don't get the point here.

human limit being the solar system I've never heard of, let alone the context around it. but the solar system is already multiversal due to what the Moon Cell contains and Gaia, so that isn't saying much. it's much bigger than our real solar system. and Gilgamesh left the Moon Cell and flew across the galaxy in CCC, so those characters clearly aren't limited to the solar system if by limit it means they can't travel beyond it. Kiara and Buddha were also stated to be gods of universal scale and power. this is especially impressive considering how big we know the Nasuverse solar system to be due to the Moon Cell and Gaia alone.

the Buddhist universe shouldn't be smaller than the normal universe?

 

[CrystalValley]

the Buddhist universe shouldn't be smaller than the normal universe?

it actually says this in that same link.

Buddhism has a sense of scale of the universe that stands out from that of other religions. There are concepts like Nayuta (1060) and “The Infinitely Vast Number” (1068) which were created to represent the scale and size of a Buddha.
The entire universe is the domain of a Buddha. In Buddhism the universe in considered to be made up of three billion solar systems (a great trichiliocosm). A galaxy comprises of 3000 solar systems (a small trichiliocosm), and 1000 small trichiliocosms make up a trichiliocosm.
This actually aligns with the real scale of galaxies, galaxy clusters, and super clusters.
India had this stuff figured out over 2000 years ago? Holy crap!

and again, we already know how big Nasuverse treats our single solar system. imagine the scale of this.

and yes, while he's saying it aligns with the "real scale", he's talking solely about the quantity of galaxies and solar systems, not their actual size. just the number itself. for instance, a galaxy has as many solar systems as our real life ones, but the solar systems and planets in question are much much bigger in Nasuverse. just in case anyone tries to use this for downplay.

 

[God243]

it actually says this in that same link.

and again, we already know how big Nasuverse treats our single solar system. imagine the scale of this.

and yes, while he's saying it aligns with the "real scale", he's talking solely about the quantity of galaxies and solar systems, not their actual size. just the number itself. for instance, a galaxy has as many solar systems as our real life ones, but the solar systems and planets in question are much much bigger in Nasuverse. just in case anyone tries to use this for downplay.

I have no more questions for now, but maybe the question of the barrier of the Moon cell that the dude were talking about (but it sounds too downplayed to me, they literally ignored rin testament.) Anycase Gilgamesh has ciel that should be 1A?. even if it sounds like wank

 

[CrystalValley]

I have no more questions for now, but maybe the question of the barrier of the Moon cell that the dude were talking about (but it sounds too downplayed to me, they literally ignored rin testament.) Anycase Gilgamesh has ciel that should be 1A?. even if it sounds like wank

i mean higher levels of infinity to describe volumes of space isn't mathematically possible for any verse, but if we use the tiering system of this website and people who believe in higher levels of infinity, the higher dimensions of the Moon Cell qualify, since they view the lower space-time as a flat scroll. but the Moon Cell is multiversal even without factoring in higher dimensions.

Holy Scriptures have light from the Root and the Seventh Holy Scripture did destroy Roa's soul, so it works for this tiering system.

without this tiering system? the Root is omnipotent and placing a potency value on hax (especially ones from the Root) usually doesn't make sense in any capacity. it's not so much a matter of wank or downplay. just the very way they view hax is pretty screwy. unless a verse specifies it, placing some arbitrary numerical limit on hax like "they don't work at this power level or can't harm higher dimensional beings" makes no sense and is entirely arbitrary. this wiki seems to semi understand that when it has things like regeneration not being bound to tiers, but then all other hax are. it's very arbitrary and doesn't make sense. generally, unless a verse clearly has some power limit for hax, pretending conceptual, soul, reality warping hax, etc stop at some arbitrary numerical power value or dimension doesn't make any sense when these things shouldn't even have numerical power factors.

TLDR: Gilgamesh has Ciel's weapon and it does exactly what this wiki says it does but rating such hax as "Outerversal" or whatever inherently goes against how most metaphysical hax and power sets work. it's a matter of not gauging things correctly at all in the system, as opposed to wank or downplay, etc. sorry if this seems confusing. but by the wiki's standards, it is 1-A and there isn't any inconsistencies with this.

if you were to ask me how it works outside of the wiki for instance, I wouldn't mention levels of potency or 1-A or anything like that. just that Gilgamesh has a weapon that conceptually erases souls, with said weapon deriving power from the Root if memory serves. someone would need to have resistance to that type of thing to resist it. that's pretty much all there is to it. impressive and dangerous, but not some end all be all thing that just makes him shit on anyone by default who isn't >insert arbitrary cosmology level here< regardless of their resistances.

 

[Ningenron]

Certified bruh momento.

 

[SuperStar]

"true debaters" lmao

 

[CrystalValley]

Certified bruh momento.

every site has different types of echo chambers so i don't get what he's trying to say. and someone on Discord sent me a picture of him openly admitting he downplays Nasuverse out of spite ever since his second post on the website. so he's not a real debater at all if he does this.

he supposedly got banned on here for bad behavior too. so he's probably still hurt idk. pretty cringe though. prime example of needing to research shit for yourself. never take what people say at face value when they could easily be bias for one side or the other. this pretty much invalidates anything he says though. idk who would be proud about being so salty over a fiction so much that they dedicate themselves to downplaying it. dude needs to touch grass. the guy thinks he lives in a shounen anime or some shit. "YOU ARE FODDER!!! COME FACE A TRUE DEBATER CORWARD!!1!11!!" like holy shit its fiction dude. get a life. him admitting to downplaying though destroys that notion anyways. so much for "true debater"

 

[God243]

every site has different types of echo chambers so i don't get what he's trying to say. and someone on Discord sent me a picture of him openly admitting he downplays Nasuverse out of spite ever since his second post on the website. so he's not a real debater at all if he does this.

he supposedly got banned on here for bad behavior too. so he's probably still hurt idk. pretty cringe though. prime example of needing to research shit for yourself. never take what people say at face value when they could easily be bias for one side or the other. this pretty much invalidates anything he says though. idk who would be proud about being so salty over a fiction so much that they dedicate themselves to downplaying it. dude needs to touch grass. the guy thinks he lives in a shounen anime or some shit. "YOU ARE FODDER!!! COME FACE A TRUE DEBATER CORWARD!!1!11!!" like holy shit its fiction dude. get a life. him admitting to downplaying though destroys that notion anyways. so much for "true debater"

the second post was published by he?. I don't understand why they don't come here

lately about space battles there was a post about xeno goku vs CCC Gilgamesh (usual shit) and it was rumored that Gilgamesh didn't have ten crowns EX and that seraf was defeated by excalibur (usual shit) and insulted the boy for cringe(for a character fiction those kids need a social life) . then see posts like these: lucifer morningstar and Micheal vs
Zeno, lucifer morningstar and Micheal vs Grand Priest,madoka vs Xeno Goku, Reinhard vs Xeno Goku. Bernkastel and Lambdadelta vs xeno Goku etc.

 

[CrystalValley]

the second post was published by he?. I don't understand why they don't come here

lately about space battles there was a post about xeno goku vs CCC Gilgamesh (usual shit) and it was rumored that Gilgamesh didn't have ten EX crowns and that seraf was defeated by excalibur (usual shit) and insulted the boy for cringe(for a character fiction those kids need a social life) . then see posts like these: lucifer morningstar and Micheal vs x
Zeno, lucifer morningstar and Micheal vs Grand Priest,madoka vs Xeno Goku, Reinhard vs Xeno Goku. Bernkastel and Lambdadelta vs xeno Goku etc.

yeah the second post was by him.

Sefar was defeated by an unsealed Excalibur. But it was because Excalibur didn't fall under its authority conditions to negate. and unsealed Excalibur isn't the same as the Excalibur Saber uses. it's way more powerful. and that was outside the Universe of Record too. though I have a feeling you're getting Sefar confused with SE.RA.PH (the Moon Cell reality marble). regardless that was all Extella anyways, not Extra. but it's not really an anti feat at all.

Gilgamesh and the other Servants required Ten Crowns to counter BB's. they wouldn't of been able to effect her without it. it directly states they receive it.

this just further shows they don't know what they're talking about and haven't even read the story or played the game.

 

[God243]

yeah the second post was by him.

Sefar was defeated by an unsealed Excalibur. But it was because Excalibur didn't fall under its authority conditions to negate. and unsealed Excalibur isn't the same as the Excalibur Saber uses. it's way more powerful. and that was outside the Universe of Record too. though I have a feeling you're getting Sefar confused with SE.RA.PH (the Moon Cell reality marble). regardless that was all Extella anyways, not Extra. but it's not really an anti feat at all.

Gilgamesh and the other Servants required Ten Crowns to counter BB's. they wouldn't of been able to effect her without it. it directly states they receive it.

this just further shows they don't know what they're talking about and haven't even read the story or played the game.

text is literally saying they have the same skill as BB.
No it isn't.
Rani: I couldn't find a way to seal the Ten Crowns, but I can formulate a countermeasure. Through analyzing the Ten Crowns, I acquired the access rights to the "Power of the Beginning" from the moon cell.
The Ten Crowns are the start of human history, what could be described as the dawn of the light of civilization….
In summary, it's the power of the "Origin" (original model) from which human genes began. Anyone human should contain it within.
So, I will add this ability to your Servant. If it's power on the same level, the "Ten Crowns" should not be able to "undo" it.
Gilgamesh: So you intend to access my original form.
Rani: Correct, we will dive into the digital body of the Servant, directly access the core of the Heroic Spirit, and unlock the root of the Heroic Spirit sealed by the Moon Cell - its mythological formal wear.
Click to shrink...

Rani :: As a result of analyzing the "Ten Crowns," we too have acquired rights to access "original power" from the Moon Cell. The "Ten Crowns" is the beginning of human history, the dawning of the light of civilization…In summer, it is the power of the Origin that began the human genome. It is something all human beings hold within them. Therefore, we can append this ability it to your Servant as well. If we have the same power the Ten Crowns cannot make us "things that weren't."

Gilgamesh :: Oh? So you would lay hands on my origin.

Rani :: Yes. You must enter your Servant's virtual mind/body, access the heroic spirit core directly, the heroic spirit's root that the Moon Cell has sealed away — and release the "legendary mystic code."
Click to shrink...

Both the Ten Crowns and the Mythology Mystic Code are the power of the origin of human history and the human genes, but they aren't the same as each other.
Ten Crowns: EX→D

A transcendental Skill on the Authority-class. It has been said that the Ten Crowns indicate the ten evil rulers and the Seven Hills indicate the abominable city of evil. If one simply observes it, it is a Skill that makes all received injuries, occurred events, and any and every result into "something that did not happen." In reality, BB is invincible as long as she is equipped with this(in this text I understand that they have the same ability as Ten Crowns EX.)


The moon cell records timelines, not actual universes and if it was that powerful characters like Safer, someone who has the power of a star could never pose a threat to it.
mean the core of the Moon Cell should be 8D no?.
A multidimensional defense is not that impressive, Saber Venus simply powered through Archimedes' one with her anti-planet NP.



And nine-tailed Tamamo beat the shit out of the Moon Cell's Core with a kick that is literally described as being as powerful as a solar flare.

(cracking sound, Tamamo's theme started playing)

???: That kind of ending, HOLD IT RIGHT THEREEE!! Revere me, revere me~! Uka no Mitama also greatly recognized and approved~! Super express SCRAMBLE straight from the imperial tomb of the Yellow Emperor, I finally arrived with the thousand light years dash!!

(more cracking sound)

???: Hah, that Time Barrier (1) or whatever doesn't matter, just call me and I will burst right in! Nah, it's not like I wasn't invited or anything though...❤

(even more cracking sound)

???: Nevertheless, even if the world acknowledged your sacrifice for world peace, God doesn't acknowledge such things! If you take what belong to me, I will take it back. I will retaliate until I win. If I screwed the rules then I will change the rules itself!! This is the spirit of my beloved! Prepare yourself, the obstacle before me! Take this FLARE SKIRT------!!!

(a bunch of cracking sound and something definitely broken)

…..She did it. She freaking did it….

She completely ignored the time axis, law of cause and effect, consistency, all of those. My Caster just did something disastrous.
Click to shrink...

Tamamo: Eh? How did I come to rescue you? To put it more correctly, I taught the stubborn Moon Cell a lesson by kicking it hard, did you see that? Afterall, a younger brother must obey his older sister (2)! That spinning kick, the official name is FLARE SKIRT BUNKER BUSTER (3), it can cause extremely high pressure on underground constructs…

….I-Is that s-so…

Basically, Caster bursted into the Moon Cell's Core by bruteforce and rescued me. As a result, rather than being out of service completely, the Moon Cell changed its way (4).
Click to shrink...


Tamamo: Ugh, you figured it out. As expected from my darling, you're as sharp as always. The truth is, about that. To save my darling, I had to regain my 9 tails form, right? So I went through 1000 years of sage training to level up, really worth it. I got my tails back and conquered the Moon Cell.
Read the Page 4
Japanese name: Manifestation of girl's power as powerful as a solar flare.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/team-natsu-ft-100-year-quest-vs-gilgamesh-fate.932997/page-4

Read the Page 4.

The Moon Cell doesn't contain infinite universes, it observes infinite possibilities, and stores them inside itself as data in the form of light. Destroying the

Moon Cell or the Reality Marbles it created does in no way equate to destroying those infinite possibilities.

Moreover, Gilgamesh apparently destroying the Moon Cell's RM is something that only happens in attack animations, and is never stated or eluded to

actually happen in the story proper.

And the Moon Cell's actual reality warping capabilities are very limited for something that is getting wanked into an infinite multiversal thing.

They are as follows according to Nasu in Fate/EXTRA Material:*

And this is what Rin in CCC tells us about the Moon Cell.*

The Moon Cell's ability to rewrite the laws of physics and reshape reality is also very limited. The most it can do is administrate the planet and the societies

on it. If it's something it cannot do, it will locate your ideal future in the many parallel world it observes, and use its control over the administration of the

planet to change society to recreate that ideal future. Its reality warping is even worsen that Earth Shen Long.

It would take it about 10 years just to do something as simple "making all the girls on Earth my little sisters". And it just changes societies so that things are

now like that, so it's not that it needed 10 years of loading time to rewrite the universe, it simple changes things little by little until your wish is actualized.

And if your wish is too crazy, it cannot actually make it even real, it just manages and directs Earth so that a device capable of allowing you to experience

that dream realistically is made. Basically, instead of rewriting reality like any true multiversal reality warper, it just builds you a Matrix, and not even instantly

at that.

Now, the Moon Cell can indeed rewrite the physical laws to some extent, but not to one that would allow it to defeat even a single Z fighter. Seriously, just

use some basic logic, the Moon Cell was unable to defeat Velber and Sefar by itself. Yet Excalibur's planet-guarding power was able to defeat the White

Titan. A mere giant energy discharge weapon, which we have no reason to believe is anything beyond planet level or star level at absolute best, and that

already feels like a stretch.

In fact, both Amaterasu and 7th Stage Sefar are stated to have an amount of energy on the level of the sun. And suddenly somehow the Moon Cell is

multiversal? Go home boy, u drunk.

Heck, the amount of light/data the Moon Cell has stored isn't enough to fill even a single universe.

And Gilgamesh never one shotted either BB and Kiara. BB's fight is not described, and Kiara was only defeated because the Alter Egos she absorbed

within herself rebelled so she didn't hurt Hakuno. Before attaining the Mythology Mystic Code Gilgamesh himself admitted that he's no match for BB, and in

the instance in which he used Ea
the story, the Moon Cell's Reality Marble was perfectly fine and dandy.

And the EXTRA and CCC timelines fit perfectly within Extella, Gilgamesh references the events in the Far Side of the Moon, as do Hakuno and Tamamo.

Not to mention that we are told that Moon Cell's power source is equivalent to the sun, so not even remotely infinite. And the Moon Cell itself is outright

stated to not be infinite as well.

And about BB being able to destroy the universe, that's bollocks as well. She ends the universe by bringing down all electrical power, because the

"universe" they're in is a cyber world. And BB has control over the Moon Cell that manages the sustaining of that virtual world. This doesn't give her any

universe busting level of power.

*Cites:

[Moon Cell‘s core

#

EN ・中 ・日

location

Moon Cell‘s core is Moon Cell.

As far as Moon Cell is concerned, the seven layers that make up the interior of the Moon are just “additional memory.”

Moon Cell‘s core is what really manages the Moon and observes the Earth. It is the brain that stores the data about the past and future.

It observes the determination of every possible destiny every second, computes further results, and stores everything inside itself as light.1

There are untold tens of millions of lights years of light trapped within the core, and the entire photonic crystal structure is also powered by it.

A certain person named Moon Cell‘s core, “The Destiny Perceiving Dendrogram.”

Just by using information encoded by converging light Moon Cell‘s core can even rewrite the laws of physics.

Phenomena Selection Tree Angelica Cage.

◆

…The ability to enter Moon Cell‘s core is the forbidden fruit that is offered to the ultimate victor of the Holy Grail War.

After overcoming the Seven Seas the protagonist, who is the last one left alive, finally makes it to Moon Cell‘s core.

A sea of light and innumerable coffins await him/her there.

And there the one that waits for the protagonist, upon the rubble of the entombed remains of the many victors.]

[Holy Grail

#

EN ・中 ・日

concept

In previous works the term Holy Grail referred to a wish granting machine that could grant any wish, but in EXTRA this term refers to the right to use Moon

Cell.

If you browse through the massive amount of records and simulated data that Moon Cell holds, you will certainly be able to find a version of Earth with the

future that you desire.

The you who has obtained the right to use Moon Cell need only say the following to Moon Cell:

“Recreate my ideal future.”

Moon Cell will quickly set about to bring the state of Earth to match the shape of the future you desire. The Moon has all the necessary knowledge and

physical means to change the world.

For example, if you were to wish “Make all the girls on Earth my little sisters.” In about ten years or so societies on Earth would have changed to be so.

Or alternatively, all of Earth would be managed and directed to work in order to make a device to allow one to experience that dream realistically.

There’s nothing that the human race can’t realize as long as it’s within the scope of human imagination. No matter what kind of fantasy, no matter how

unrealistic, there is a way to realize and experience it.]

[…the Holy Grail…the wishing vessel, given to the winner of the Holy Grail War, said to be able to grant every wish. …ah, I see. …so this despondency was

because my senses all realized that? …before that giant wall. …at the bottom of my heart, I already — Rani :: The Holy Grail is an observational device that

simulates the future of the Earth, and stores those records continuously, at regular intervals. It has been doing so since the beginning of human history.

Though it is supposed, an infinity of futures are recorded here in the moon. To obtain the Moon Cell means to be able to search out the future your wish for

from among all of those, and put it into effect. Rin :: …you understand? It won’t make the world just as you want instantaneously, but it can with certainty

manage the Earth according to your wish. A wishing vessel filled with all realities…no, it’s more of a schedule management device. That’s what the Moon

Cell Core is. …this wishing device has obtained a will, and determined the “future.” That future is the annihilation of mankind. The outside world is

proceeding with that future of annihilation as its set history. At this point, even if we get back to the near side, never mind the Holy Grail War, whether the

Moon Cell itself is there or not…]

[The wizards who have reached the moon will compete with one another,and the last one standing will be summoned to the Moon Cell Core and granted

the right to use it. That’s the Holy Grail – an omnipotent computer containing a power source equal to the sun.]

[Rani :: No, that’s not precisely it. As it is created by the Moon Cell, which is finite, the Labyrinth cannot become infinite — it must be of a single shape, with a

fixed entrance and exit. No matter how irregular it appears, the Labyrinth must abide by those conditions or it will break down.]

[Gilgamesh :: Until the end of the universe? How generous of you. Then will you end the universe if she refuses? It wouldn’t be very balanced otherwise,

would it?

Gilgamesh turns BB’s words against her provocatively. …if that’s any indication, he’s ready to shoot down BB on the spot. Looking at me and Gilgamesh

like this,

BB :: Of course I will end it. If Hakuno Kishinami does not sever her contract with Gilgamesh, I will bring down all electrical power.

She’s saying she’ll destroy the universe. The girl in black announces it, not as a bluff or a metaphor, but as if it were natural.]
these are all the Debunks I have found

 

[Vietthai96]

this just further shows they don't know what they're talking about and haven't even read the story or played the game

To be fair, this kind of thing happen across many many verses. Peoples like this just follow the series because they saw the verse have good rating and power on vs debate site, but actually they know next to nothing about the verse and characters in it. Like Xeno Goku, i saw many peoples debate about him, but they actually know nothing about him, aside from vs stuff like he can beat a multiversal+ character, this and that.....

 

[CrystalValley]

text is literally saying they have the same skill as BB.
No it isn't.
Rani: I couldn't find a way to seal the Ten Crowns, but I can formulate a countermeasure. Through analyzing the Ten Crowns, I acquired the access rights to the "Power of the Beginning" from the moon cell.
The Ten Crowns are the start of human history, what could be described as the dawn of the light of civilization….
In summary, it's the power of the "Origin" (original model) from which human genes began. Anyone human should contain it within.
So, I will add this ability to your Servant. If it's power on the same level, the "Ten Crowns" should not be able to "undo" it.
Gilgamesh: So you intend to access my original form.
Rani: Correct, we will dive into the digital body of the Servant, directly access the core of the Heroic Spirit, and unlock the root of the Heroic Spirit sealed by the Moon Cell - its mythological formal wear.
Click to shrink...

Rani :: As a result of analyzing the "Ten Crowns," we too have acquired rights to access "original power" from the Moon Cell. The "Ten Crowns" is the beginning of human history, the dawning of the light of civilization…In summer, it is the power of the Origin that began the human genome. It is something all human beings hold within them. Therefore, we can append this ability it to your Servant as well. If we have the same power the Ten Crowns cannot make us "things that weren't."

Gilgamesh :: Oh? So you would lay hands on my origin.

Rani :: Yes. You must enter your Servant's virtual mind/body, access the heroic spirit core directly, the heroic spirit's root that the Moon Cell has sealed away — and release the "legendary mystic code."
Click to shrink...

Both the Ten Crowns and the Mythology Mystic Code are the power of the origin of human history and the human genes, but they aren't the same as each other.
Ten Crowns: EX→D

A transcendental Skill on the Authority-class. It has been said that the Ten Crowns indicate the ten evil rulers and the Seven Hills indicate the abominable city of evil. If one simply observes it, it is a Skill that makes all received injuries, occurred events, and any and every result into "something that did not happen." In reality, BB is invincible as long as she is equipped with this(in this text I understand that they have the same ability as Ten Crowns EX.)


The moon cell records timelines, not actual universes and if it was that powerful characters like Safer, someone who has the power of a star could never pose a threat to it.
mean the core of the Moon Cell should be 8D no?.
A multidimensional defense is not that impressive, Saber Venus simply powered through Archimedes' one with her anti-planet NP.



And nine-tailed Tamamo beat the shit out of the Moon Cell's Core with a kick that is literally described as being as powerful as a solar flare.

(cracking sound, Tamamo's theme started playing)

???: That kind of ending, HOLD IT RIGHT THEREEE!! Revere me, revere me~! Uka no Mitama also greatly recognized and approved~! Super express SCRAMBLE straight from the imperial tomb of the Yellow Emperor, I finally arrived with the thousand light years dash!!

(more cracking sound)

???: Hah, that Time Barrier (1) or whatever doesn't matter, just call me and I will burst right in! Nah, it's not like I wasn't invited or anything though...❤

(even more cracking sound)

???: Nevertheless, even if the world acknowledged your sacrifice for world peace, God doesn't acknowledge such things! If you take what belong to me, I will take it back. I will retaliate until I win. If I screwed the rules then I will change the rules itself!! This is the spirit of my beloved! Prepare yourself, the obstacle before me! Take this FLARE SKIRT------!!!

(a bunch of cracking sound and something definitely broken)

…..She did it. She freaking did it….

She completely ignored the time axis, law of cause and effect, consistency, all of those. My Caster just did something disastrous.
Click to shrink...

Tamamo: Eh? How did I come to rescue you? To put it more correctly, I taught the stubborn Moon Cell a lesson by kicking it hard, did you see that? Afterall, a younger brother must obey his older sister (2)! That spinning kick, the official name is FLARE SKIRT BUNKER BUSTER (3), it can cause extremely high pressure on underground constructs…

….I-Is that s-so…

Basically, Caster bursted into the Moon Cell's Core by bruteforce and rescued me. As a result, rather than being out of service completely, the Moon Cell changed its way (4).
Click to shrink...


Tamamo: Ugh, you figured it out. As expected from my darling, you're as sharp as always. The truth is, about that. To save my darling, I had to regain my 9 tails form, right? So I went through 1000 years of sage training to level up, really worth it. I got my tails back and conquered the Moon Cell.
Read the Page 4
Japanese name: Manifestation of girl's power as powerful as a solar flare.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/team-natsu-ft-100-year-quest-vs-gilgamesh-fate.932997/page-4

Read the Page 4.

The Moon Cell doesn't contain infinite universes, it observes infinite possibilities, and stores them inside itself as data in the form of light. Destroying the

Moon Cell or the Reality Marbles it created does in no way equate to destroying those infinite possibilities.

Moreover, Gilgamesh apparently destroying the Moon Cell's RM is something that only happens in attack animations, and is never stated or eluded to

actually happen in the story proper.

And the Moon Cell's actual reality warping capabilities are very limited for something that is getting wanked into an infinite multiversal thing.

They are as follows according to Nasu in Fate/EXTRA Material:*

And this is what Rin in CCC tells us about the Moon Cell.*

The Moon Cell's ability to rewrite the laws of physics and reshape reality is also very limited. The most it can do is administrate the planet and the societies

on it. If it's something it cannot do, it will locate your ideal future in the many parallel world it observes, and use its control over the administration of the

planet to change society to recreate that ideal future. Its reality warping is even worsen that Earth Shen Long.

It would take it about 10 years just to do something as simple "making all the girls on Earth my little sisters". And it just changes societies so that things are

now like that, so it's not that it needed 10 years of loading time to rewrite the universe, it simple changes things little by little until your wish is actualized.

And if your wish is too crazy, it cannot actually make it even real, it just manages and directs Earth so that a device capable of allowing you to experience

that dream realistically is made. Basically, instead of rewriting reality like any true multiversal reality warper, it just builds you a Matrix, and not even instantly

at that.

Now, the Moon Cell can indeed rewrite the physical laws to some extent, but not to one that would allow it to defeat even a single Z fighter. Seriously, just

use some basic logic, the Moon Cell was unable to defeat Velber and Sefar by itself. Yet Excalibur's planet-guarding power was able to defeat the White

Titan. A mere giant energy discharge weapon, which we have no reason to believe is anything beyond planet level or star level at absolute best, and that

already feels like a stretch.

In fact, both Amaterasu and 7th Stage Sefar are stated to have an amount of energy on the level of the sun. And suddenly somehow the Moon Cell is

multiversal? Go home boy, u drunk.

Heck, the amount of light/data the Moon Cell has stored isn't enough to fill even a single universe.

And Gilgamesh never one shotted either BB and Kiara. BB's fight is not described, and Kiara was only defeated because the Alter Egos she absorbed

within herself rebelled so she didn't hurt Hakuno. Before attaining the Mythology Mystic Code Gilgamesh himself admitted that he's no match for BB, and in

the instance in which he used Ea
the story, the Moon Cell's Reality Marble was perfectly fine and dandy.

And the EXTRA and CCC timelines fit perfectly within Extella, Gilgamesh references the events in the Far Side of the Moon, as do Hakuno and Tamamo.

Not to mention that we are told that Moon Cell's power source is equivalent to the sun, so not even remotely infinite. And the Moon Cell itself is outright

stated to not be infinite as well.

And about BB being able to destroy the universe, that's bollocks as well. She ends the universe by bringing down all electrical power, because the

"universe" they're in is a cyber world. And BB has control over the Moon Cell that manages the sustaining of that virtual world. This doesn't give her any

universe busting level of power.

*Cites:

[Moon Cell‘s core

#

EN ・中 ・日

location

Moon Cell‘s core is Moon Cell.

As far as Moon Cell is concerned, the seven layers that make up the interior of the Moon are just “additional memory.”

Moon Cell‘s core is what really manages the Moon and observes the Earth. It is the brain that stores the data about the past and future.

It observes the determination of every possible destiny every second, computes further results, and stores everything inside itself as light.1

There are untold tens of millions of lights years of light trapped within the core, and the entire photonic crystal structure is also powered by it.

A certain person named Moon Cell‘s core, “The Destiny Perceiving Dendrogram.”

Just by using information encoded by converging light Moon Cell‘s core can even rewrite the laws of physics.

Phenomena Selection Tree Angelica Cage.

◆

…The ability to enter Moon Cell‘s core is the forbidden fruit that is offered to the ultimate victor of the Holy Grail War.

After overcoming the Seven Seas the protagonist, who is the last one left alive, finally makes it to Moon Cell‘s core.

A sea of light and innumerable coffins await him/her there.

And there the one that waits for the protagonist, upon the rubble of the entombed remains of the many victors.]

[Holy Grail

#

EN ・中 ・日

concept

In previous works the term Holy Grail referred to a wish granting machine that could grant any wish, but in EXTRA this term refers to the right to use Moon

Cell.

If you browse through the massive amount of records and simulated data that Moon Cell holds, you will certainly be able to find a version of Earth with the

future that you desire.

The you who has obtained the right to use Moon Cell need only say the following to Moon Cell:

“Recreate my ideal future.”

Moon Cell will quickly set about to bring the state of Earth to match the shape of the future you desire. The Moon has all the necessary knowledge and

physical means to change the world.

For example, if you were to wish “Make all the girls on Earth my little sisters.” In about ten years or so societies on Earth would have changed to be so.

Or alternatively, all of Earth would be managed and directed to work in order to make a device to allow one to experience that dream realistically.

There’s nothing that the human race can’t realize as long as it’s within the scope of human imagination. No matter what kind of fantasy, no matter how

unrealistic, there is a way to realize and experience it.]

[…the Holy Grail…the wishing vessel, given to the winner of the Holy Grail War, said to be able to grant every wish. …ah, I see. …so this despondency was

because my senses all realized that? …before that giant wall. …at the bottom of my heart, I already — Rani :: The Holy Grail is an observational device that

simulates the future of the Earth, and stores those records continuously, at regular intervals. It has been doing so since the beginning of human history.

Though it is supposed, an infinity of futures are recorded here in the moon. To obtain the Moon Cell means to be able to search out the future your wish for

from among all of those, and put it into effect. Rin :: …you understand? It won’t make the world just as you want instantaneously, but it can with certainty

manage the Earth according to your wish. A wishing vessel filled with all realities…no, it’s more of a schedule management device. That’s what the Moon

Cell Core is. …this wishing device has obtained a will, and determined the “future.” That future is the annihilation of mankind. The outside world is

proceeding with that future of annihilation as its set history. At this point, even if we get back to the near side, never mind the Holy Grail War, whether the

Moon Cell itself is there or not…]

[The wizards who have reached the moon will compete with one another,and the last one standing will be summoned to the Moon Cell Core and granted

the right to use it. That’s the Holy Grail – an omnipotent computer containing a power source equal to the sun.]

[Rani :: No, that’s not precisely it. As it is created by the Moon Cell, which is finite, the Labyrinth cannot become infinite — it must be of a single shape, with a

fixed entrance and exit. No matter how irregular it appears, the Labyrinth must abide by those conditions or it will break down.]

[Gilgamesh :: Until the end of the universe? How generous of you. Then will you end the universe if she refuses? It wouldn’t be very balanced otherwise,

would it?

Gilgamesh turns BB’s words against her provocatively. …if that’s any indication, he’s ready to shoot down BB on the spot. Looking at me and Gilgamesh

like this,

BB :: Of course I will end it. If Hakuno Kishinami does not sever her contract with Gilgamesh, I will bring down all electrical power.

She’s saying she’ll destroy the universe. The girl in black announces it, not as a bluff or a metaphor, but as if it were natural.]
these are all the Debunks I have found

this is way too long and i'm not here to proxy debate someone on SB. but the scan I sent literally says she is appending this ability to Hakuno's Servant. that's as clear as it can get.

Extella doesn't fit Extra and CCC so badly that Nasu had to write an Extella version of Extra to make it fit.

Hakuno did not have all 4 Servants in CCC, but she seemed to in Extella since they all know her.

Hakuno did not know both Nero and Tamamo. you can only pick one and they never show up together in the same grail war.

The Moon Cell tries to erase Hakuno in Extra not give her a Regalia to defend the Moon Cell.

Gilgamesh's ending is literally entirely incompatible with Extella since him and Hakuno left the Moon Cell.

Gilgamesh is effected by the Far Side in Extella while he is not in CCC.

there's much more, but Nasu literally ******* wrote Extella Zero (which is an Extra rewrite for Extella) to explain Extella. that's how much it didn't fit. likewise the CCC in Extella is clearly different as well since Hakuno didn't have four Servants in CCC. this guy thinking Extella fits with Extra already disproves him knowing about them. and regardless, Extella really doesn't have any anti feats for Extra anyways.

that's all i'm getting into though. again im not proxy debating people on another website who have proven they don't know anything about Extra when they think a separate series fits when even the ******* creator knows it doesn't. these are the same people who said Prime Roa killing all the TAs was fanfiction then fell to silence when someone posted 2 scans directly stating it. these people aren't worth speaking to. they literally don't know anything about the subjects they talk about.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Certified bruh momento.

He's spitting

 

[God243]

this is way too long and i'm not here to proxy debate someone on SB. but the scan I sent literally says she is appending this ability to Hakuno's Servant. that's as clear as it can get.

Extella doesn't fit Extra and CCC so badly that Nasu had to write an Extella version of Extra to make it fit.

Hakuno did not have all 4 Servants in CCC, but she seemed to in Extella since they all know her.

Hakuno did not know both Nero and Tamamo. you can only pick one and they never show up together in the same grail war.

The Moon Cell tries to erase Hakuno in Extra not give her a Regalia to defend the Moon Cell.

Gilgamesh's ending is literally entirely incompatible with Extella since him and Hakuno left the Moon Cell.

Gilgamesh is effected by the Far Side in Extella while he is not in CCC.

there's much more, but Nasu literally ******* wrote Extella Zero (which is an Extra rewrite for Extella) to explain Extella. that's how much it didn't fit. likewise the CCC in Extella is clearly different as well since Hakuno didn't have four Servants in CCC. this guy thinking Extella fits with Extra already disproves him knowing about them. and regardless, Extella really doesn't have any anti feats for Extra anyways.

that's all i'm getting into though. again im not proxy debating people on another website who have proven they don't know anything about Extra when they think a separate series fits when even the ******* creator knows it doesn't. these are the same people who said Prime Roa killing all the TAs was fanfiction then fell to silence when someone posted 2 scans directly stating it. these people aren't worth speaking to. they literally don't know anything about the subjects they talk about.

this message should be smaller. however, what about Ten Crowns EX which only works on humans, I mean the moon cell only observes the earth. so it can create the humans?

The Moon Cell doesn't contain infinite universes, it observes infinite possibilities, and stores them inside itself as data in the form of light. Destroying the

Moon Cell or the Reality Marbles it created does in no way equate to destroying those infinite possibilities.

Moreover, Gilgamesh apparently destroying the Moon Cell's RM is something that only happens in attack animations, and is never stated or eluded to

actually happen in the story proper.

And the Moon Cell's actual reality warping capabilities are very limited for something that is getting wanked into an infinite multiversal thing.

They are as follows according to Nasu in Fate/EXTRA Material:*

And this is what Rin in CCC tells us about the Moon Cell.*

The Moon Cell's ability to rewrite the laws of physics and reshape reality is also very limited. The most it can do is administrate the planet and the societies

on it. If it's something it cannot do, it will locate your ideal future in the many parallel world it observes, and use its control over the administration of the

planet to change society to recreate that ideal future. Its reality warping is even worsen that Earth Shen Long.

It would take it about 10 years just to do something as simple "making all the girls on Earth my little sisters". And it just changes societies so that things are

now like that, so it's not that it needed 10 years of loading time to rewrite the universe, it simple changes things little by little until your wish is actualized.

And if your wish is too crazy, it cannot actually make it even real, it just manages and directs Earth so that a device capable of allowing you to experience

that dream realistically is made. Basically, instead of rewriting reality like any true multiversal reality warper, it just builds you a Matrix, and not even instantly

 

[SirAlex09]

He's spitting

Though most of the moderators did get clapped directly in debates or indirectly in youtube videos outside of this Wiki. Many stances put you in loosing position from the start in debates.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

why bother responding to him? Nothing will get resolved its will be arguments running in circles

 

[CrystalValley]

this message should be smaller. however, what about Ten Crowns EX which only works on humans, I mean the moon cell only observes the earth. so it can create the humans?

The Moon Cell doesn't contain infinite universes, it observes infinite possibilities, and stores them inside itself as data in the form of light. Destroying the

Moon Cell or the Reality Marbles it created does in no way equate to destroying those infinite possibilities.

Moreover, Gilgamesh apparently destroying the Moon Cell's RM is something that only happens in attack animations, and is never stated or eluded to

actually happen in the story proper.

And the Moon Cell's actual reality warping capabilities are very limited for something that is getting wanked into an infinite multiversal thing.

They are as follows according to Nasu in Fate/EXTRA Material:*

And this is what Rin in CCC tells us about the Moon Cell.*

The Moon Cell's ability to rewrite the laws of physics and reshape reality is also very limited. The most it can do is administrate the planet and the societies

on it. If it's something it cannot do, it will locate your ideal future in the many parallel world it observes, and use its control over the administration of the

planet to change society to recreate that ideal future. Its reality warping is even worsen that Earth Shen Long.

It would take it about 10 years just to do something as simple "making all the girls on Earth my little sisters". And it just changes societies so that things are

now like that, so it's not that it needed 10 years of loading time to rewrite the universe, it simple changes things little by little until your wish is actualized.

And if your wish is too crazy, it cannot actually make it even real, it just manages and directs Earth so that a device capable of allowing you to experience

that dream realistically is made. Basically, instead of rewriting reality like any true multiversal reality warper, it just builds you a Matrix, and not even instantly

Ten Crowns doesn't only work on humans. that's a specific part of Potnia Theron's authority that doesn't allow someone to defy its user. and that's only a specific part of the authority. the rest of it is not bound to Earth, since BB used it to reshape the Moon Cell's Far Side and other things. and Ten Crowns isn't Potnia Theron exactly. it's related, but isn't the exact same thing.

the Moon Cell storing infinite possibilities as light debunks nothing. what form it takes is irrelevant. storing infinity is infinity regardless of its composition. and "light" in Nasuverse is the same thing that created the Moon Cell's entire reality and conceptual space. to compare it to real life light is a joke.

i never made any argument about Gilgamesh's NP animation, but it's minor evidence. definitely wouldn't lead with it and he doesn't need it.

reality warping and hax are completely independent of the power rating or range rating of something. and it's reality warping is insane. just look at what it contains. it's only limited when it starts operating beyond the scope of itself and when it comes to other places like Earth.

C.C.C rewriting the Moon Cell's laws and everything =/= the Moon Cell putting into effect possibilities for Earth. these are completely different things. going to just ignore the senseless complaining about how its reality warping of Earth is limited. yes it is. that has no bearing on its multiversal rating, considering it can still enact infinite futures in it. and the Moon Cell's own reality is extremely complex. more so than what is shown on Earth. obviously it's going to become more limited when extending it's capabilities beyond its own reality. its own reality has absurd conceptual shit that is more real than actual numerical values that has spaces stretch on infinitely so long as the concept of an exist isn't established etc.

you're wasting your time dealing with these people. they don't know anything about anything in any capacity.

@Setsuna_tenma pretty sure he's sending stuff from Spacebattles and not this guy in the picture on Comicvine.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

still same. SB is even worse when it comes to nasuverse than CV. Even the guy knowledgable about nasuverse got banned in SB and says its pointless to debate them

 

[Vietthai96]

still same. SB is even worse when it comes to nasuverse than CV. Even the guy knowledgable about nasuverse got banned in SB and says its pointless to debate them

Spacebattle never use dimensional tiering, if you debate thing like 4D or 5D, they going to say: bring your vsbattle bullshit out of here

They also rarely use hax in debate, Fate lose so many battle on that site because they rarely using hax

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Spacebattle never use dimensional tiering, if you debate thing like 4D or 5D, they going to say: bring your vsbattle bullshit out of here

its not just that. They don`t believe servants go above tier 8 and subsonic speed

 

[CrystalValley]

its not just that. They don`t believe servants go above tier 8 and subsonic speed

Spacebattle never use dimensional tiering, if you debate thing like 4D or 5D, they going to say: bring your vsbattle bullshit out of here

They also rarely use hax in debate, Fate lose so many battle on that site because they rarely using hax

i mean using higher levels of infinity for volumes of space is mathematically impossible to be fair. and considering that more important than hax like this place is even worse. i also rate Servants way lower than this website, since they are consistently in the Supersonic range with the vast majority of their feats and nowhere near island level. but saying they don't go above subsonic is pushing it. that should be for like D or E tier agility Servants maybe.

with that being said, everything else they say is extremely wrong and they don't understand much about the verse at all and i much prefer this place. and yeah i'm going to lay off replying to them. like i said, i don't want to proxy debate another website anyways.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Even the guy knowledgable about nasuverse got banned in SB and says its pointless to debate them

Who?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Who?

xhominind

 

[FallenMaou2234]

Certified bruh momento.

This is really really cringe..........like jesus christ

 

[FallenMaou2234]

text is literally saying they have the same skill as BB.
No it isn't.
Rani: I couldn't find a way to seal the Ten Crowns, but I can formulate a countermeasure. Through analyzing the Ten Crowns, I acquired the access rights to the "Power of the Beginning" from the moon cell.
The Ten Crowns are the start of human history, what could be described as the dawn of the light of civilization….
In summary, it's the power of the "Origin" (original model) from which human genes began. Anyone human should contain it within.
So, I will add this ability to your Servant. If it's power on the same level, the "Ten Crowns" should not be able to "undo" it.
Gilgamesh: So you intend to access my original form.
Rani: Correct, we will dive into the digital body of the Servant, directly access the core of the Heroic Spirit, and unlock the root of the Heroic Spirit sealed by the Moon Cell - its mythological formal wear.
Click to shrink...

Rani :: As a result of analyzing the "Ten Crowns," we too have acquired rights to access "original power" from the Moon Cell. The "Ten Crowns" is the beginning of human history, the dawning of the light of civilization…In summer, it is the power of the Origin that began the human genome. It is something all human beings hold within them. Therefore, we can append this ability it to your Servant as well. If we have the same power the Ten Crowns cannot make us "things that weren't."

Gilgamesh :: Oh? So you would lay hands on my origin.

Rani :: Yes. You must enter your Servant's virtual mind/body, access the heroic spirit core directly, the heroic spirit's root that the Moon Cell has sealed away — and release the "legendary mystic code."
Click to shrink...

Both the Ten Crowns and the Mythology Mystic Code are the power of the origin of human history and the human genes, but they aren't the same as each other.
Ten Crowns: EX→D

A transcendental Skill on the Authority-class. It has been said that the Ten Crowns indicate the ten evil rulers and the Seven Hills indicate the abominable city of evil. If one simply observes it, it is a Skill that makes all received injuries, occurred events, and any and every result into "something that did not happen." In reality, BB is invincible as long as she is equipped with this(in this text I understand that they have the same ability as Ten Crowns EX.)


The moon cell records timelines, not actual universes and if it was that powerful characters like Safer, someone who has the power of a star could never pose a threat to it.
mean the core of the Moon Cell should be 8D no?.
A multidimensional defense is not that impressive, Saber Venus simply powered through Archimedes' one with her anti-planet NP.



And nine-tailed Tamamo beat the shit out of the Moon Cell's Core with a kick that is literally described as being as powerful as a solar flare.

(cracking sound, Tamamo's theme started playing)

???: That kind of ending, HOLD IT RIGHT THEREEE!! Revere me, revere me~! Uka no Mitama also greatly recognized and approved~! Super express SCRAMBLE straight from the imperial tomb of the Yellow Emperor, I finally arrived with the thousand light years dash!!

(more cracking sound)

???: Hah, that Time Barrier (1) or whatever doesn't matter, just call me and I will burst right in! Nah, it's not like I wasn't invited or anything though...❤

(even more cracking sound)

???: Nevertheless, even if the world acknowledged your sacrifice for world peace, God doesn't acknowledge such things! If you take what belong to me, I will take it back. I will retaliate until I win. If I screwed the rules then I will change the rules itself!! This is the spirit of my beloved! Prepare yourself, the obstacle before me! Take this FLARE SKIRT------!!!

(a bunch of cracking sound and something definitely broken)

…..She did it. She freaking did it….

She completely ignored the time axis, law of cause and effect, consistency, all of those. My Caster just did something disastrous.
Click to shrink...

Tamamo: Eh? How did I come to rescue you? To put it more correctly, I taught the stubborn Moon Cell a lesson by kicking it hard, did you see that? Afterall, a younger brother must obey his older sister (2)! That spinning kick, the official name is FLARE SKIRT BUNKER BUSTER (3), it can cause extremely high pressure on underground constructs…

….I-Is that s-so…

Basically, Caster bursted into the Moon Cell's Core by bruteforce and rescued me. As a result, rather than being out of service completely, the Moon Cell changed its way (4).
Click to shrink...


Tamamo: Ugh, you figured it out. As expected from my darling, you're as sharp as always. The truth is, about that. To save my darling, I had to regain my 9 tails form, right? So I went through 1000 years of sage training to level up, really worth it. I got my tails back and conquered the Moon Cell.
Read the Page 4
Japanese name: Manifestation of girl's power as powerful as a solar flare.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/team-natsu-ft-100-year-quest-vs-gilgamesh-fate.932997/page-4

Read the Page 4.

The Moon Cell doesn't contain infinite universes, it observes infinite possibilities, and stores them inside itself as data in the form of light. Destroying the

Moon Cell or the Reality Marbles it created does in no way equate to destroying those infinite possibilities.

Moreover, Gilgamesh apparently destroying the Moon Cell's RM is something that only happens in attack animations, and is never stated or eluded to

actually happen in the story proper.

And the Moon Cell's actual reality warping capabilities are very limited for something that is getting wanked into an infinite multiversal thing.

They are as follows according to Nasu in Fate/EXTRA Material:*

And this is what Rin in CCC tells us about the Moon Cell.*

The Moon Cell's ability to rewrite the laws of physics and reshape reality is also very limited. The most it can do is administrate the planet and the societies

on it. If it's something it cannot do, it will locate your ideal future in the many parallel world it observes, and use its control over the administration of the

planet to change society to recreate that ideal future. Its reality warping is even worsen that Earth Shen Long.

It would take it about 10 years just to do something as simple "making all the girls on Earth my little sisters". And it just changes societies so that things are

now like that, so it's not that it needed 10 years of loading time to rewrite the universe, it simple changes things little by little until your wish is actualized.

And if your wish is too crazy, it cannot actually make it even real, it just manages and directs Earth so that a device capable of allowing you to experience

that dream realistically is made. Basically, instead of rewriting reality like any true multiversal reality warper, it just builds you a Matrix, and not even instantly

at that.

Now, the Moon Cell can indeed rewrite the physical laws to some extent, but not to one that would allow it to defeat even a single Z fighter. Seriously, just

use some basic logic, the Moon Cell was unable to defeat Velber and Sefar by itself. Yet Excalibur's planet-guarding power was able to defeat the White

Titan. A mere giant energy discharge weapon, which we have no reason to believe is anything beyond planet level or star level at absolute best, and that

already feels like a stretch.

In fact, both Amaterasu and 7th Stage Sefar are stated to have an amount of energy on the level of the sun. And suddenly somehow the Moon Cell is

multiversal? Go home boy, u drunk.

Heck, the amount of light/data the Moon Cell has stored isn't enough to fill even a single universe.

And Gilgamesh never one shotted either BB and Kiara. BB's fight is not described, and Kiara was only defeated because the Alter Egos she absorbed

within herself rebelled so she didn't hurt Hakuno. Before attaining the Mythology Mystic Code Gilgamesh himself admitted that he's no match for BB, and in

the instance in which he used Ea
the story, the Moon Cell's Reality Marble was perfectly fine and dandy.

And the EXTRA and CCC timelines fit perfectly within Extella, Gilgamesh references the events in the Far Side of the Moon, as do Hakuno and Tamamo.

Not to mention that we are told that Moon Cell's power source is equivalent to the sun, so not even remotely infinite. And the Moon Cell itself is outright

stated to not be infinite as well.

And about BB being able to destroy the universe, that's bollocks as well. She ends the universe by bringing down all electrical power, because the

"universe" they're in is a cyber world. And BB has control over the Moon Cell that manages the sustaining of that virtual world. This doesn't give her any

universe busting level of power.

*Cites:

[Moon Cell‘s core

#

EN ・中 ・日

location

Moon Cell‘s core is Moon Cell.

As far as Moon Cell is concerned, the seven layers that make up the interior of the Moon are just “additional memory.”

Moon Cell‘s core is what really manages the Moon and observes the Earth. It is the brain that stores the data about the past and future.

It observes the determination of every possible destiny every second, computes further results, and stores everything inside itself as light.1

There are untold tens of millions of lights years of light trapped within the core, and the entire photonic crystal structure is also powered by it.

A certain person named Moon Cell‘s core, “The Destiny Perceiving Dendrogram.”

Just by using information encoded by converging light Moon Cell‘s core can even rewrite the laws of physics.

Phenomena Selection Tree Angelica Cage.

◆

…The ability to enter Moon Cell‘s core is the forbidden fruit that is offered to the ultimate victor of the Holy Grail War.

After overcoming the Seven Seas the protagonist, who is the last one left alive, finally makes it to Moon Cell‘s core.

A sea of light and innumerable coffins await him/her there.

And there the one that waits for the protagonist, upon the rubble of the entombed remains of the many victors.]

[Holy Grail

#

EN ・中 ・日

concept

In previous works the term Holy Grail referred to a wish granting machine that could grant any wish, but in EXTRA this term refers to the right to use Moon

Cell.

If you browse through the massive amount of records and simulated data that Moon Cell holds, you will certainly be able to find a version of Earth with the

future that you desire.

The you who has obtained the right to use Moon Cell need only say the following to Moon Cell:

“Recreate my ideal future.”

Moon Cell will quickly set about to bring the state of Earth to match the shape of the future you desire. The Moon has all the necessary knowledge and

physical means to change the world.

For example, if you were to wish “Make all the girls on Earth my little sisters.” In about ten years or so societies on Earth would have changed to be so.

Or alternatively, all of Earth would be managed and directed to work in order to make a device to allow one to experience that dream realistically.

There’s nothing that the human race can’t realize as long as it’s within the scope of human imagination. No matter what kind of fantasy, no matter how

unrealistic, there is a way to realize and experience it.]

[…the Holy Grail…the wishing vessel, given to the winner of the Holy Grail War, said to be able to grant every wish. …ah, I see. …so this despondency was

because my senses all realized that? …before that giant wall. …at the bottom of my heart, I already — Rani :: The Holy Grail is an observational device that

simulates the future of the Earth, and stores those records continuously, at regular intervals. It has been doing so since the beginning of human history.

Though it is supposed, an infinity of futures are recorded here in the moon. To obtain the Moon Cell means to be able to search out the future your wish for

from among all of those, and put it into effect. Rin :: …you understand? It won’t make the world just as you want instantaneously, but it can with certainty

manage the Earth according to your wish. A wishing vessel filled with all realities…no, it’s more of a schedule management device. That’s what the Moon

Cell Core is. …this wishing device has obtained a will, and determined the “future.” That future is the annihilation of mankind. The outside world is

proceeding with that future of annihilation as its set history. At this point, even if we get back to the near side, never mind the Holy Grail War, whether the

Moon Cell itself is there or not…]

[The wizards who have reached the moon will compete with one another,and the last one standing will be summoned to the Moon Cell Core and granted

the right to use it. That’s the Holy Grail – an omnipotent computer containing a power source equal to the sun.]

[Rani :: No, that’s not precisely it. As it is created by the Moon Cell, which is finite, the Labyrinth cannot become infinite — it must be of a single shape, with a

fixed entrance and exit. No matter how irregular it appears, the Labyrinth must abide by those conditions or it will break down.]

[Gilgamesh :: Until the end of the universe? How generous of you. Then will you end the universe if she refuses? It wouldn’t be very balanced otherwise,

would it?

Gilgamesh turns BB’s words against her provocatively. …if that’s any indication, he’s ready to shoot down BB on the spot. Looking at me and Gilgamesh

like this,

BB :: Of course I will end it. If Hakuno Kishinami does not sever her contract with Gilgamesh, I will bring down all electrical power.

She’s saying she’ll destroy the universe. The girl in black announces it, not as a bluff or a metaphor, but as if it were natural.]
these are all the Debunks I have found

Good jesus this is so long when I clicked quote it loaded for a couple seconds hahahahah

Look dude there's literally no reason to send all these things if they have a problem with the way the site does things then they can go wherever it is that does do things the "right way". If there are any qualms have them make a CRT and drop it no one is stopping them from coming here in numbers. If they really disagree that much it's not hard to set up a discord server and discuss with a group of individuals in order to make sure as a Collective your opinions align now is it??. If not then this entire thread is sorta pointless

Also shout out to the guy who made this gargantuan wall of text thinking that the Mooncell only records Timelines when there a Literal scan saying they're Parallel worlds and Shout out to him for thinking that two star level statments debunk Multiversal C.C.C

 

[God243]

Good jesus this is so long when I clicked quote it loaded for a couple seconds hahahahah

Look dude there's literally no reason to send all these things if they have a problem with the way the site does things then they can go wherever it is that does do things the "right way". If there are any qualms have them make a CRT and drop it no one is stopping them from coming here in numbers. If they really disagree that much it's not hard to set up a discord server and discuss with a group of individuals in order to make sure as a Collective your opinions align now is it??. If not then this entire thread is sorta pointless

Also shout out to the guy who made this gargantuan wall of text thinking that the Mooncell only records Timelines when there a Literal scan saying they're Parallel worlds and Shout out to him for thinking that two star level statments debunk Multiversal C.C.C

1)they Say this
Bro i am your fan now. But you can feel bad for them. They literally are scared to debate outside vsb so they hide behind their mods who happily keep up the wank fest and bully off any user who disagrees, and their argument is "NOOOOO gilgamesh is infinite multiversal cause i said so!!!" and now they are planning to take their void shiki wank to next level to tier 0. LMAO
Wiki is literally devoid of any possibility of meaningful discussion happening since at the end of the day literally the only thing that matters is Mod Opinion there. CV isn't the best platform out there being a bugged alt filled junk but at least you can do something productive here and there
2) they say that extella Gilgamesh seems to remember the events of CCC or something like that.

every site has different types of echo chambers so i don't get what he's trying to say. and someone on Discord sent me a picture of him openly admitting he downplays Nasuverse out of spite ever since his second post on the website. so he's not a real debater at all if he does this.

he supposedly got banned on here for bad behavior too. so he's probably still hurt idk. pretty cringe though. prime example of needing to research shit for yourself. never take what people say at face value when they could easily be bias for one side or the other. this pretty much invalidates anything he says though. idk who would be proud about being so salty over a fiction so much that they dedicate themselves to downplaying it. dude needs to touch grass. the guy thinks he lives in a shounen anime or some shit. "YOU ARE FODDER!!! COME FACE A TRUE DEBATER CORWARD!!1!11!!" like holy shit its fiction dude. get a life. him admitting to downplaying though destroys that notion anyways. so much for "true debater"

If it’s not, then another person is stalking my every message about Gil.

Cj is king agreed with me once and then was questioned on why he supported the anti Gil agenda (despite lordballer inciting him to do so). Who Is the anti-Gil agenda they are serious?. This is very Cringe

 

[CrystalValley]

1)they Say this
Bro i am your fan now. But you can feel bad for them. They literally are scared to debate outside vsb so they hide behind their mods who happily keep up the wank fest and bully off any user who disagrees, and their argument is "NOOOOO gilgamesh is infinite multiversal cause i said so!!!" and now they are planning to take their void shiki wank to next level to tier 0. LMAO
Wiki is literally devoid of any possibility of meaningful discussion happening since at the end of the day literally the only thing that matters is Mod Opinion there. CV isn't the best platform out there being a bugged alt filled junk but at least you can do something productive here and there
2) they say that extella Gilgamesh seems to remember the events of CCC or something like that.

If it’s not, then another person is stalking my every message about Gil.

Cj is king agreed with me once and then was questioned on why he supported the anti Gil agenda (despite lordballer inciting him to do so). Who Is the anti-Gil agenda they are serious?. This is very Cringe

there's plenty of flaws to point out on this site, sure. but them specifically complaining about this is just pure irony. no one there debates anything. they just try to shit talk as hard as possible. there is no intelligent discussion or evaluation to be had. these same people sit in small Discord servers to hide in and stroke each other's undeserved egos, so it's completely hypocritical. and their criticism also falls completely short against people like me and some others who are completely independent of this website that rate things entirely different when not having to abide by the system here. not everyone blindly follows something. they have this running shtick that everyone here are drones programmed to think the same way, when that's not the case.

notice they also said people here claim "Gilgamesh is multiversal cuz i said so" when I presented a mountain of evidence. they of course when presented with this say "Nasuverse isn't multiversal cuz i said so." they have no self awareness

Gilgamesh remembering the events of EXTELLA's version of CCC. the original CCC is incompatible with Extella. Gilgamesh left the Moon Cell entirely with Hakuno and flew across the galaxy. that's 1,000% incompatible with Extella. and Hakuno didn't know the other Servants at the same time as him. playing/reading both of these games and a basic functioning brain would allow you to realize this immediately. even this website knows they aren't the same. they just have this weird composite canon thing that doesn't work and holds Extra to a higher canon/standard.

honestly there's no point in continuing this. it's just slapping non debaters over and over and them screaming and whining. nothing productive is taking place. they don't even know anything regarding the franchise at all.

 

[Vietthai96]

Power scale are completely subjective so you can't say you are competely right while others are completely wrong

Also Nasuverse tier 0, i don't remember the fan on this site even attempt to do that

 

[Adrianelloxd]

Afaik the only people who say Nasuverse is tier 0 are tiktok randoms, scary place.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

xhominind

Hey, i know this guy from FGO GameFAQS Board

Granted this thread should be closed as there's nothing to continuing this pointless debate anymore

 

[FallenMaou2234]

1)they Say this
Bro i am your fan now. But you can feel bad for them. They literally are scared to debate outside vsb so they hide behind their mods who happily keep up the wank fest and bully off any user who disagrees, and their argument is "NOOOOO gilgamesh is infinite multiversal cause i said so!!!" and now they are planning to take their void shiki wank to next level to tier 0. LMAO
Wiki is literally devoid of any possibility of meaningful discussion happening since at the end of the day literally the only thing that matters is Mod Opinion there. CV isn't the best platform out there being a bugged alt filled junk but at least you can do something productive here and there
2) they say that extella Gilgamesh seems to remember the events of CCC or something like that.

If it’s not, then another person is stalking my every message about Gil.

Cj is king agreed with me once and then was questioned on why he supported the anti Gil agenda (despite lordballer inciting him to do so). Who Is the anti-Gil agenda they are serious?. This is very Cringe

"Gilgamesh is Infinite Multiversal cause I said soo"

Kudos to him he can debunk our ratings without even knowing why we rate them that way

"Void Shiki tier 0"

Lol there's nothing planned even remotely along those lines rn the only thing being planned for Nasu right now is the Lostbelt CRT so I think he may be a little misinformed