Iron Fist upgrade 2.0

[The_Impress]

So the new Death Battle got released and it's downplaying as **** as usual, I specifically didn't do this revision because I was curious if they'll use the correct end or not.

As established in the prior revision, Iron Fist can control the potency of the Iron Fist and holds back against non-mechanical opponents. So basically he's only using the amount of strength he requires, not going MAXIMUM POWER every time.

Now, this would imply his current feats don't show his peak, and the peak I will be suggesting, is 5-A, scaling off of the Thing and the Hulk. This rating is completely justified by the mechanics of the Iron Fist, and its power depiction in the verse. Having the Iron Fist isn't a pussy shit skill, it's comparable to the strongest power ups in the verse itself, contextually

To address some concerns

• This scales to fuckall, as said Iron Fist CAN change his Fist's potency and is very conservative about its use. He isn't hakai-ing any rando goon with it.
• This does NOT scale to his durability, even in the Hulk scan he notes if Hulk was to hit him back he'd be ****** up hard.

TL;DR Iron Fist will be 8-C, Up to 5-A with the Iron Fist.

 

[Eficiente]

Seeing in the hit against the Thing that he put all his chi into 1 arm and how against Hulk he couldn't get hit back, 5-A is legit but he should only be able to pull 1 or a few attacks into it. "Up to 5-A" would be better, as against the Thing he was most likely his regular self, then put all his chi in his arm instantly like the comic says, and then I assume he went back to his regular self.

 

[The_Impress]

It is up to 5-A, yeah, this is just replacing the 7-A, mechanics wise they're exact

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I agree with the upgrade.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Seems fine

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Wouldn't this scale to his energy absorption?

 

[The_Impress]

Wouldn't this scale to his energy absorption?

Doesn't seem like it.

 

[The_Impress]

Anyways that's derailment, ig I shouldn't have began with this in the first place, sorry, I'll delete all Death Battle related comments not pertaining to the revision :v

 

[The_Impress]

@Antvasima Can you check this thread rq?

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is good

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know, as he has no personal feats of anywhere near this scale. Isn't it just another case of Marvel's completely insane and incoherent matchup system? It seems safer to scale him from his own feats to me.

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Confluctor

What do you think about this?

 

[The_Impress]

I do not know, as he has no personal feats of anywhere near this scale. Isn't it just another case of Marvel's completely insane and incoherent matchup system? It seems safer to scale him from his own feats to me.

His own personal feats match with no one across the entire verse, his scaling makes perfect coherence in context to his in-character performance, and he has no antifeats exactly, for the Fist.

Surprisingly enough the 5-A actually states some pretty sufficient evidence for it being the high end, as Eficiente above notes, they're the only times he seems to go out of his way forbthe Fist to work

Marvel has the habit of having wacky scaling, but this time, due to the mechanics explained in prior comics, these feats are fairly reasonable to showcase his peak feats.

 

[Antvasima]

It is just two feats out of hundreds and no significant damage seems to have been caused. It seems nowhere near consistent enough to base such a massive upgrade on.

 

[LordTracer]

Can we see the page after he hit the Thing? I dunno if it’s just me, but it doesn’t seem like he actually hurt him to me.

 

[The_Impress]

I mean 99% of Marvel characters don't cause major damage to each other, it isn't a MAX issue or even them fighting as bloodthirsty enemies.

Iron Fist's other feats include oneshotting nearly everyone with the Fist, or weakening himself enough to KO 8-Cs

Can we see the page after he hit the Thing? I dunno if it’s just me, but it doesn’t seem like he actually hurt him to me.

I'll get the scan

 

[Confluctor]

I most definitely agree with Up to 5A. He also has a feat of beating up Colossus of the X-Men


Most of his other feats are shown casual, but him Vs the 5As seems to be his peak. Like the thing one where (iirc) it was stated he was using everything he had.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we need considerably better and more consistent evidence than those two feats to scale from. Sorry. We could easily upgrade Spider-Man to 5-A with the same logic and likely quite a lot more instances.

Let's try to be responsible and always keep our regulation page for Marvel and DC Comics in mind please.

 

[LordTracer]

He also has a feat of beating up Colossus of the X-Men

Colossus shouldn’t be a 5-A tbh

 

[Eficiente]

Well, we need considerably better and more consistent evidence than those two feats to scale from. Sorry. We could easily upgrade Spider-Man to 5-A with the same logic and likely quite a lot more instances.

Not the same logic, Marvel is bullsh*t on match-ups but when they add reasons for it it's legit, in this cases Iron Fist used more power than normal for his feats in a way that he can't keep for more than just a very little time, so it makes sense that he wouldn't use that in other fights. It would be an outlier if we knew that him using all his chin in 1 arm/extremity cannot allow him to do a 5-A attack by way of that having anti-feats.

 

[Confluctor]

Colossus shouldn’t be a 5-A tbh

Eh, idk about that. He has legit 5A scaling, not just from the Thing, but storm, Vision, Gladiator, and Juggs too.

 

[The_Impress]

Meanwhile I've found more feats for him harming 5-As

• Colossus (Iron Fist Vol 1 15; Absolute ******* downplay on your end btw, Tracer, that somehow Colossus doesn't end up 5-A)
• Hercules (Somewhere in the 1997 Heroes for Hire run)
• Skaar (2010s New Avengers run, issue 20; Followup scan)

I mean honestly at this point scaling off of 5 5-As is more scaling than what most other 5-As get

 

[LordTracer]

Absolute ******* downplay on your end btw, Tracer, that somehow Colossus doesn't end up 5-A

First of all, calm down.

Second of all, I’m going off of his current AP justification.

 

[Confluctor]

Meanwhile I've found more feats for him harming 5-As

• Colossus (Iron Fist Vol 1 15; Absolute ******* downplay on your end btw, Tracer, that somehow Colossus doesn't end up 5-A)
• Hercules (Somewhere in the 1997 Heroes for Hire run)
• Skaar (2010s New Avengers run, issue 20; Followup scan)

I mean honestly at this point scaling off of 5 5-As is more scaling than what most other 5-As get

I was in the middle of posting the exact scans. You beat me to it

Also isn't there a scan of him punching Ragnarok (Thor clone)? (I think its from the same run). Edit: It's from New Avengers 2010 #21

 

[The_Impress]

Well, we need considerably better and more consistent evidence than those two feats to scale from. Sorry. We could easily upgrade Spider-Man to 5-A with the same logic and likely quite a lot more instances.

Let's try to be responsible and always keep our regulation page for Marvel and DC Comics in mind please.

This isn't Spider-Man, this is a character with a power mechanic that supports the tier suggested, context that supports it, and the feats support it.

I have literally read thousands of comics, and you can see the number of files I have made, fully sourced, and honestly, this is the most legitimate I have seen a 5-A be.

He's a street tier who has multiple statements he holds back to a ridiculous degree, he has gone against higher tier characters, and guess what? He can very well oneshot everyone in Street tier as it is.

This isn't us being conservative, this is us downplaying by ignoring context.

 

[Cummleman]

Meanwhile I've found more feats for him harming 5-As

• Colossus (Iron Fist Vol 1 15; Absolute ******* downplay on your end btw, Tracer, that somehow Colossus doesn't end up 5-A)
• Hercules (Somewhere in the 1997 Heroes for Hire run)
• Skaar (2010s New Avengers run, issue 20; Followup scan)

I mean honestly at this point scaling off of 5 5-As is more scaling than what most other 5-As get

Hercules was stripped of his immortality at the time, and wasn’t as powerful. Skaar was unhamed by the punch and was charging back into the fray three pages later.

 

[The_Impress]

First of all, calm down.

Fairly calm. I straight up don't know where the hell have you developed the sense that common debate terms like "downplay" and "bias" are somehow people being mad, but this isn't swearing

Second of all, I’m going off of his current AP justification.

Then those AP justifications need work.

You're an X-Men dude, you're going against yourself

 

[The_Impress]

Hercules was stripped of his immortality at the time, and wasn’t as powerful.

Hercules was still 5-A. I'm not scaling to his 4-B

Skaar was unhamed by the punch and was charging back into the fray three pages later.

Do you want his skull to explode? Do you want him to vomit blood? I'm not counting knockouts, I'm counting damage, wiki counts damage to scale. He was knocked out the fray for 3 pages? Great, that's damage done

Again, context, think what I am suggesting, I haven't said once he's superior to these 5-As, but he can very well harm them

 

[Tllmbrg]

5-A Iron Fist seems reasonable since he has an in verse mechanic

Hercules was stripped of his immortality at the time, and wasn’t as powerful. Skaar was unhamed by the punch and was charging back into the fray three pages later.

Also for second, this's Marvel
You tend to not see people stay down for that long lol

 

[Confluctor]

back into the fray three pages later.

Plus Hulks tend to regenerate way too quickly. In the same comic, Wolvie recover from far worse damage iirc.

 

[The_Impress]

And honestly, 7-A or 5-A, gap is still a bajillion times higher than his base.

7-A literally has a single feat, 5-A has 5, and is integrated into the verse.

 

[LordTracer]

Then those AP justifications need work.

You're an X-Men dude, you're going against yourself

What exactly does me being knowledgeable in X-Men have to do with what I said? If Colosuss has 5-A scaling, that’s cool, someone should fix his base key so it isn’t devoid of scans.

Fairly calm. I straight up don't know where the hell have you developed the sense that common debate terms like "downplay" and "bias" are somehow people being mad, but this isn't swearing

Uh, you wanna maybe re-read the comment I was replying to? And I dunno how many “common debates” you’ve been in, but from my experience, people only claim downplay or bias as accusations or as attempts to discredit someone’s point.

Anyways… 5-A looks fine for Danny’s peak.

 

[The_Impress]

What exactly does me being knowledgeable in X-Men have to do with what I said? If Colosuss has 5-A scaling, that’s cool, someone should fix his base key so it isn’t devoid of scans.

It's relevant because I don't think you're being honest when you claim this, are you seriously going to say goddamn Colossus doesn't even hit 5-A?

Later date project

Uh, you wanna maybe re-read the comment I was replying to? And I dunno how many “common debates” you’ve been in, but from my experience, people only claim downplay or bias as accusations or as attempts to discredit someone’s point.

Yes, I am discrediting your claim, because I don't think it was made in good faith. I can discredit you, this is a common debate resolution against a problematic side.

I CAN take you to RVR or whatever, but that's a derailment so I'd rather address it right here and now, since it's a relatively minor offense.

 

[LordTracer]

I literally explained that my claim was based on Colossus’ current AP justification, which scales him to Thing based on literally nothing. I also said that if Colossus has 5-A feats, that’s perfectly fine, but based on his current justification, there isn’t anything supporting 5-A.

If you think calling a character’s AP justification into question is report-worthy, that’s your perogative.

 

[The_Impress]

Tracer. I will ask. Have you read a single X-Men comicbook that had a fight between the Blob and Colossus?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

For what it's worth, I have found scans of Colossus beating up or fighting Juggernaut, Thing, and other characters in that threshold. He's defiantly in that range.

I know my opinion probably doesn't mean much here, but up to 5-A Iron Fist seems very well justified tbh.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Why are we arguing over this here, if Tracer thinks we should downgrade Russian Metal Man then he should make a CRT
Not like this thread relies on that scaling so

 

[Confluctor]

Yeah let's move on from that discussion

 

[The_Impress]

Fine, I'll quit it. I am bothered by his behaviour in Marvel CRTs but I'll address those in a later date.

 

[The_Impress]

I do apologize though, in a quick hidnsight I shouldn't have did this publicly. Tracer is a genuinely knowledgeable member with good logical thinking, I just feel at odds with him at various instances, which make me tend to assume the worst of him, when he seems to make claims I believe he should know better of.

 

[Newendigo]

I guess is fine if is a 1%-to-100% power mechanic.