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Iron Fist upgrade 2.0

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Didn't thing like, get up in the next panel and beat the shit out of danny

also IIRC in the other two instances he used it on Hulk it just did ****-all to him



EDIT: nevermind i read zark's responses, this is good
 
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ZephyrosOmega said:
Didn't thing like, get up in the next panel and beat the shit out of danny

also IIRC in the other two instances he used it on Hulk it just did ****-all to him



EDIT: nevermind i read zark's responses, this is good
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Smh people don't read comments nowadays before rushing to CRTs smhsmhsmhsmh
 
Just saw this. looks good. And yeah saying this isn't consistent or usable makes no sense with the explanation the verse gives. that's like saying Solomon Grundy shouldn't be superman tier in some instances even though the comics explain why he doesn't always hit that hard.
 
I agree with the upgrade. The reasoning is solid, there is a clear mechanics at play plus in-character motivations for not going full-throttle. Characters holding back is nothing new. Thor does it, Surfer does it, heck Spider-man does so on both offense and defense as to NOT kill or injure people.
 
I've applied the revision.

Rest of the people in the list Antvasima asked to input, as either staff members or inactive, and staff members can unlock threads to input.

So I'll close this.

suck it Death Battles
 
I suppose that this upgrade is probably fine to apply, if you list ALL of the significant examples of Iron Fist hurting 5-A tiered characters that were listed above or you can otherwise find within his profile page.

However, you really need to clean up your behaviour. It is extra important that staff members are not perceived as abusive towards regular members. Making sudden ad hominem accusations is not acceptable in this community. It breeds grudges between our members and prevents them from politely collaborating with each other.

Also, you should wait for me the next time. I cannot be present here every waking hour. I have many tasks in the wiki as well, and have to do some things IRL as well. Exercise for example.
 
Antvasima said:
I suppose that this upgrade is probably fine to apply, if you list ALL of the significant examples of Iron Fist hurting 5-A tiered characters that were listed above or you can otherwise find within his profile page.
Click to expand...
Did it.
Antvasima said:
However, you really need to clean up your behaviour. It is extra important that staff members are not perceived as abusive towards regular members. Making sudden ad hominem accusations is not acceptable in this community. It breeds grudges between our members and prevents them from politely collaborating with each other.
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I apologized to Tracer in time, and I think even he can admit that he did make the mistake of not clarifying what his Colossus claim implied, and it felt like... really basic omission at the time. I had full reason to be suspicious of it, just should've done it privately.
Antvasima said:
Also, you should wait for me the next time. I cannot be present here every waking hour. I have many tasks in the wiki as well, and have to do some things IRL as well. Exercise for example.
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I already got the input the knowledgeable members presented, I didn't think it needed even more input :v

I know you're busy that's why I didn't keep the thread open. It was resolved.
 
Okay. No problem. Thank you for being reasonable.

It is really important that you consistently try to be on your best behaviour though.
 
I try to, just gets abit frustrating since alotta information was getting parsed in a very short amount of time, actually unlike prior revisions of this level, so it was annoying, not helped by aforementioned claims.

Anyhow can we close the thread now?
 
Jasonsith asked me to reopen this thread for him.
 
I think that he wanted to make some more Iron Fist profile page adjustments based on his recent calculations.
 
Meh, I appreciate the calc, but honestly I never got the notion of scaling it to his energy absorption, and we have the 5-A feats more consistently for his Iron Fist

I like, straight up believe his Absorption should be downgraded significantly from 7-A, now that it's brought to attention
 
Actually further inspection, look at the 7-A durability feats. We're just straight up making up the headcanon it seems like, that he automatically absorbs these attacks when no context is provided that he does.

...yeah these just look like massive logical outliers in his durability that his page is trying to pass off as "energy absorption", either that or they're missing CRUCIAL context.
 
Yes, I agree that I do not recall that energy absorption was ever mentioned in conjunction with the train feat.
 
To save time, I am planning to rewrite his stats as:

Attack potency: "8-C physically. Varies p to at least (whatever tier the train nuke feat can hype up to) (His punch has been compared to a Hydrogen Bomb. Defeated Radion, whose power was measured as hundreds of megatons), possibly 5-A with the Iron Fist (Can harm the likes of Colossus, the Thing the Hulk and Hercules, as well as Skaar)"
Durability: "8-C physically. Up to at least (whatever tier the train nuke feat can hype up to) with chi absorption and chi reserves (Tanked attacks from Radion and absorbed his energy as Radion's power was measured as hundreds of Megatons. Tanked / absorbed the explosion of a train filled with enough explosions to "Make Hiroshima look like a sparkler", and which was going to decimate K'un-Lun)"
Click to expand...

Minor wordings may change but you get the idea. To tune the durability from the feat lately calculated and revised. One blog is there for giving some idea
 
Again I just require like, statements saying he absorbed it. I'm not buying this passive absorption narrative
 
I just want to specify that it's never stated that Iron Fist absorbed the electromagnetic waves, it seems he used his ki to enter some kind of tuning and allow himself to be shpt towards the train as a bullet by manipulating the same electricity.

At the end of the day it does have anything to do with the feat itself, I think, but instead of absorbing electricity he manipulated it with his ki to enhance his charge.
 
The_Impress said:
is 5-A, scaling off of the Thing and the Hulk.
Click to expand...
So for the Thing he just staggered him mostly. Hulk was punched through a wall and was just undamaged.
The_Impress said:
  • Colossus (Iron Fist Vol 1 15; Absolute ******* downplay on your end btw, Tracer, that somehow Colossus doesn't end up 5-A)
  • Hercules (Somewhere in the 1997 Heroes for Hire run)
  • Skaar (2010s New Avengers run, issue 20; Followup scan)
Click to expand...
  • Colosuss is punched into a table, and shows no signs of harm
  • Hercules has multiple issues: He was punched, but a character arc during that one was his rampant alcoholism and he was drunk af when he got knocked out. More importantly Zeus has stripped him of his divine nature and made him much weaker. In other words this is a nerfed Hercules.
  • Skaar was hit, but no blood was drawn and the next pages show him more or less uninjured. Punching a dude and sending him flying isn't automatically scaling
Though if we want to count "Moved them with fist" as proper scaling I guess its okay, but I'm honestly not for it.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
So for the Thing he just staggered him mostly. Hulk was punched through a wall and was just undamaged.

  • Colosuss is punched into a table, and shows no signs of harm
  • Hercules has multiple issues: He was punched, but a character arc during that one was his rampant alcoholism and he was drunk af when he got knocked out. More importantly Zeus has stripped him of his divine nature and made him much weaker. In other words this is a nerfed Hercules.
  • Skaar was hit, but no blood was drawn and the next pages show him more or less uninjured. Punching a dude and sending him flying isn't automatically scaling
Though if we want to count "Moved them with fist" as proper scaling I guess its okay, but I'm honestly not for it.
Click to expand...
Wait table? That shows him going into a wall.
 
Meh I think you could downsacle him at worse off the 5-As but like he has semi consistent feats in that realm so I think arguing over if he damaged them that much is kinda nitpicky
 
The_Impress said:
It's not imo, again there is no clarification he absorbed it, same with the train feat

I'm sorry, why are you changing the 5-A into a possibly?
Click to expand...
Qawsedf234 said:
So for the Thing he just staggered him mostly. Hulk was punched through a wall and was just undamaged.

  • Colosuss is punched into a table, and shows no signs of harm
  • Hercules has multiple issues: He was punched, but a character arc during that one was his rampant alcoholism and he was drunk af when he got knocked out. More importantly Zeus has stripped him of his divine nature and made him much weaker. In other words this is a nerfed Hercules.
  • Skaar was hit, but no blood was drawn and the next pages show him more or less uninjured. Punching a dude and sending him flying isn't automatically scaling
Though if we want to count "Moved them with fist" as proper scaling I guess its okay, but I'm honestly not for it.
Click to expand...
I assume this explains why I want to make Iron Fist with charged Iron Fist "into a possibly 5-A"
 
Qawsedf234 said:
So for the Thing he just staggered him mostly. Hulk was punched through a wall and was just undamaged.

  • Colosuss is punched into a table, and shows no signs of harm
  • Hercules has multiple issues: He was punched, but a character arc during that one was his rampant alcoholism and he was drunk af when he got knocked out. More importantly Zeus has stripped him of his divine nature and made him much weaker. In other words this is a nerfed Hercules.
  • Skaar was hit, but no blood was drawn and the next pages show him more or less uninjured. Punching a dude and sending him flying isn't automatically scaling
Though if we want to count "Moved them with fist" as proper scaling I guess its okay, but I'm honestly not for it.
Click to expand...
This isn't the Boys or Invincible. They don't bleed gruesomely in the comics until 2000s, they don't show any signs of gore unless its a MAX issue, and they don't show thoughtboxes and narration signifying damage past the 90s, hell they barely do these things anyhow. The standard you're putting forth to judge this is so restrictive that I don't even think most people's rogues gallery will scale to them.

Thing gets staggering, which is legitimate considering how hard it is to stagger people, Hulk shows a blatant sign of being hurt with the "uggggh", what else do you even want, Colossus wasn't going to cave onto his own being on hit, otherwise how did Iron Fist keep him at bay for the extended periods of time in the fight, Hercules, you have to prove that he's not even 5-A since I'm not scaling Iron Fist to 4-B, and Skaar, I will straight up say no to your point, if he was upscaling that greatly he wouldn't be pit of the fight for 3 pages.

By this logic no one in comics ever gets hurt unless they're upscaling from the people they damage. Real poor logic here, Qaw.

And no, I don't believe this harms my points. This isn't even Marvel & DC Powerscaling, this is assuming whenever someone harms someone in Marvel they show overtly visible signs of damage everytime, and we just turn off our brains to any contextual clues.

It doesn't take much energy to see what the author was implying there, it doesn't take much energy to assess they were harmed, it doesn't take much energy to see there is scaling. I can nitpick every single scaling on the wiki to this extent and we have zero scaling overall.

This is needless scrutiny that benefits no one, it's not helping consistency, it's not showing our statistics as accurate, it's not making our files have even half decent collection of feats, it's only pushing the narrative that we're ridiculously elitist when it comes to Marvel scaling, and we don't care for consistency, we just mould their stats to our own liking.
 
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And for one, I think it's completely unfair to reopen this thread with a downgrade, once it's completely resolved, since I know many participants of the CRT leave it afterwards, so this is essentially me being ganged up on.
 
Shan't speak on the actual purpose of the thread. Not incredibly knowledgeable. That said, I'm sure if you wanted to go grab people to come back, at least some would. Tackling an issue as it's made is a good thing, if the upgrade truly isn't agreed upon and was just rushed through (not saying that is the case, of course) before opposing views could be stated, I hardly see how reopening a thread shortly after its conclusion is a bad thing.
 
We've had in the past seen dead CRTs trudged along like this far after they had reached conclusions.

Some of the more toxic ones like the Captain Britain CRT and the Hulk downgrade come to mind, where after the initial fanfare it just was two users butting heads with no one joining, despite how many times Ant called them, neither were particularly long alive either
 
Has it occurred to you that to avoid a toxic thread, you could be less toxic about presenting your points?

@Eficiente @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus

I would consider it a personal favor from you all to put Zark's mind at ease and read over Qaw's points above and give your thoughts on his interpretation.
 
I will choose to ignore this and your ranting on Discord in the interest of helping get this thread to a proper conclusion, Zark. Let's be civil, lads.
 
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