INTELLIGENCE PAGE: A TINY ADDITION!

[Arnoldstone18]

Hi Hi,

I would like a note to be on the intelligence page before I make a CRTs for profiles that go against it.

Note: refrain from giving a "mindless" rating based on statements that describe a character as such. Said character's actions may contradict these statements.

I noticed mindless rating is given to those who have statements calling a certain character mindless. This is wrong, especially when the character has performed feats contrary to the statement. the context of the word mindless in such statements can also mean "Stupid", or "Berserk". and these words don't suggest a character literally "lacks a mind/intelligence". Most of the time they simply display animalistic behaviors.


What are you guys' thoughts?

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

yea that makes sense

 

[speedster352]

Can you explain this?

yea that makes sense

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

its just a simple agree, usually when someone is called "mindless" its not in the way we do where they literally do not have a mind

 

[Arnoldstone18]

For instance this character shouldn’t have a mindless rating due to reasons already mentioned on the page.

It has performed an intelligence feat and it has instincts akin to an animal.

so a below average to animalistic should’ve been given.

 

[speedster352]

I agree

 

[Antvasima]

This is a staff forum thread, so let's keep the conversation staff only please.

Anyway, adding a brief mention of this to the "Mindless" section of our Intelligence page makes sense to me.

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Andytrenom @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Damage3245

What do you think?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Eh. No.

I don't like the notion of making a hard set rule that says "do not call them mindless if they're called mindless". The rule is poorly worded based on what they're trying to achieve.

I'd like to think most people have the sense to analyze context, but perhaps we ought to add a note to accentuate the need for that.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I have also noticed this tendency in some of our pages, and I was thinking more about a mention that our members should not automatically assign statements of intelligence within a story itself without looking at if a character's feats and behaviour fits with it according to our standards.

Thank you for helping out in any case.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I got into a big argument on the intelligence of a particular creature. This creature not only lacked a brain but a credible source stated that this creature is mindless. On the contrary, the creature is capable of strategic problem solving and it instinctively responds to dangerous intent. My stance was this Creature was animalistic due to shown feats, the opposition sided with anatomy and the credible statements.



So I wanted to impose a small rule to urge people to take feats over Anatomy and statements when making judgements on a character’s intelligence within a story. So is there a better way to reword it? Im fine with a note too.

 

[Andytrenom]

I think this is fine

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Mindless ratings should generally apply to characters who are only acting via being controlled via Hivemind conscious and what not usually. But there are characters such as Doomsday who have mindless lore statements and thus granting them immunity to telepaths, but are shown to be surprisingly skilled in combat. Which i have sometimes warranted, "Mindless with Gifted combat skills".

But I'm mixed and leaning towards being okay with the rule.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I think for the sake of the intelligence rating that is fine in setiment.

Although, it should be said that it doesn't necessarily mean they have a mind, even if they act pseudo-intelligent. Like a golem that acts according to a complex pattern of rules or a robot. They don't have a mind, but can for practical purposes be considered to have a certain kind of intelligence.

Of course, things must always be evaluated in context.

 

[Abstractions]

I'm fine with the addition should it encourage people to look further contextually before attributing things to literal mindlessness.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Okay this may not be as tiny of a change as I expected.

Why not just make the Mindless section more detailed.

Although, it should be said that it doesn't necessarily mean they have a mind, even if they act pseudo-intelligent. Like a golem that acts according to a complex pattern of rules or a robot. They don't have a mind, but can for practical purposes be considered to have a certain kind of intelligence.

Mindless ratings should generally apply to characters who are only acting via being controlled via Hivemind conscious and what not usually. But there are characters such as Doomsday who have mindless lore statements and thus granting them immunity to telepaths, but are shown to be surprisingly skilled in combat. Which i have sometimes warranted, "Mindless with Gifted combat skills".

But I'm mixed and leaning towards being okay with the rule.

Maybe you both have a point. Just like a robot that lacks a mind but possesses a series of robotic functions or wiring that are so complex that it can pass for a mind. Let's say these kinds of robots are super intelligent. Would we rate them "Supergenius" or "Mindless with Super Genius Combat skills"? What if the super genius rating isn't related to combat? Would we then give these robots "Super Genius" or "Mindless"? Both are technically true. But I feel like when determining the appropriate rating, "mindless" shouldn't be related to anatomy/biology at all. There could be characters that possess a means to think (a brain) but simply can't. Will we not rate them Mindless because he/she possesses a brain?, or should we rate them "mindless" because the person can't think at all?

I have an idea, I think the anatomy should be completely disregarded when rating intelligence. Maybe they can be considered in special cases idk. But I believe action speaks for itself. So "Mindless" should be for those who literally have no intellectual capacity.

I think we should put it this way

Mindless: Those few beings that have no capacity for intelligence at all. Although some characters without a mind can be considered for such rating, one should assess the actions performed by said characters to see if they truly have no way of thinking. Those with a brain can also be considered for this rating if they can not display any form of intelligence.

For Example:

Doomsday
Intelligence: Gifted in combat (Although Doomsday lacks a mind, he has shown exceptional combat skills)

Eternity Girl
Intelligence: Average (Although she is literally just a wave function, she is capable of thinking like a human)

something like that. only examples

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Dunno if we ought to list Doomsday as gifted for his combat skills, but I like that phrasing an awful lot more.

 

[Antvasima]

I was thinking more about a mention that our members should not automatically assign statements of intelligence within a story itself without looking at if a character's feats and behaviour fits with it according to our standards.

Can somebody write a draft text based on this please?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Can somebody write a draft text based on this please?

I think what you said is fine so I’ll just take part of it

One should not automatically assign statements of intelligence within a story itself without looking at if a character's feats and behaviour fits with it according to our standards.

The Draft Note requested. Idk if this is how you wanted the draft text

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ant, Sir, what do you think of the propose text for Mindless. It should encompass all our ideas and without the need for a note

Mindless: Those few beings that have no capacity for intelligence at all. Although some characters without a mind can be considered for such rating, one should assess the actions performed by said characters to see if they truly have no way of thinking. Those with a mind can also be considered for this rating if they can not display any form of thought.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I would replace 'brain' with 'mind' to include metaphysical conscioussness.
Aside from that, the proposal seems ok.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Done!

 

[GyroNutz]

The newly suggested mindless description looks good to me

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluations. I have applied the changes. I hope that they are acceptable.

Intelligence

Intelligence is a word that is incredibly difficult to define, as it has been used to refer to many things, such as one's ability to process information, or their capacity for logic, self-awareness, creativity, reasoning, and/or problem solving, or their knowledge and memory. In its fullest...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Antvasima]

Also, should we change the "Suggested Rankings" section title to just "Rankings" or "Ranking System' instead, given that the listed options have turned into much more commonplace standards at this point?

Intelligence

Intelligence is a word that is incredibly difficult to define, as it has been used to refer to many things, such as one's ability to process information, or their capacity for logic, self-awareness, creativity, reasoning, and/or problem solving, or their knowledge and memory. In its fullest...

vsbattles.fandom.com

We preferably need to adjust the following text accordingly as well.

"There is no way to reliably quantify intelligence, and even these rankings are just suggestions and guidelines for pages. It is more important that a page discusses a character's intelligence and gives feats for their varying skills than have a solid ranking, although it may help with quickly summarizing their overall intellects and how they measure up to others."

Would something like this be a better alternative?

"There is no way to reliably quantify intelligence, and even the following rankings are just guidelines. It is more important that a page describes a character's most impressive intelligence feats along with their various skills than that it defines a solid ranking, although it helps with quickly summarising their overall intellect and how it compares to others."

 

[Vietthai96]

Not a staff, but this topic interesting, so i want to contribute something:

There is no way to reliably quantify intelligence, and even the following rankings are just guidelines. It is more important that a page describes a character's most impressive intelligence feats along with their various skills than that it defines a solid ranking

1. In my opinion, i like this part. As similar to power, intelligence is something subjective. In fiction, a character could be a genius to someone, but at same time just an average to others, depending on in-verse character opinion on said character. So we should based on feats to qualify intelligence rather than using some random statements from in-verse character, unless those statements truly support the feat

Although, it should be said that it doesn't necessarily mean they have a mind, even if they act pseudo-intelligent. Like a golem that acts according to a complex pattern of rules or a robot. They don't have a mind, but can for practical purposes be considered to have a certain kind of intelligence.

2. This actually concern me, like DontTalk said, some character like robot doesn't actually have mind, or higher cognitive function and self-awareness which could leading to intelligence. They just get some programed system, partern, etc..and act accordingly. It also related to some character from Azur Lane which i planning to make as they are just "programed robot in a sense". So i think we should expand the Mindless section, as programed robot is still mindless, but they capable of acting accordingly to what they was programed to do. The current Mindless section is kinda lackluster and too vague

 

[Antvasima]

What do our other staff members here think?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Also, should we change the "Suggested Rankings" section title to just "Rankings" or "Ranking System' instead, given that the listed options have turned into much more commonplace standards at this point?

Yes, Ranking is fine.

Any other rank besides those we have would create confusion and would probably create ambiguity since there is no explanation on them.

Would something like this be a better alternative?

"There is no way to reliably quantify intelligence, and even the following rankings are just guidelines. It is more important that a page describes a character's most impressive intelligence feats along with their various skills than that it defines a solid ranking, although it helps with quickly summarising their overall intellect and how it compares to others."

Yes this is fine.

This actually concern me, like DontTalk said, some character like robot doesn't actually have mind, or higher cognitive function and self-awareness which could leading to intelligence. They just get some programed system, partern, etc..and act accordingly. It also related to some character from Azur Lane which i planning to make as they are just "programed robot in a sense". So i think we should expand the Mindless section, as programed robot is still mindless, but they capable of acting accordingly to what they was programed to do. The current Mindless section is kinda lackluster and too vague

No they shouldn’t be mindless. Although this gives me an idea.

Let’s create a text for artificial intelligence and add it to the existing sections. I will craft an idea of what I mean.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Personally I would keep it at Suggested Rankings. While the standards are in more common usage now, the inherent problem with a fixed intelligence scale remains.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Upon further inspection of the intelligence page, adding texts describing Artificial Intelligence to all rankings would be unnecessary.

Its NOT that these beings are mindless because they literally lack a mind, Their alternative mode of thinking must be mentioned. I have drafted an example that should go with artificial intelligence, possession, etc.

“Genius with artificial intelligence” & “Extraordinary Genius while possessed” are appropriate for characters that technically lack a mind of their own, but are still capable of exceptional intelligence.

The end result should look like this: (look at the last bullet point)

Note​

A character may have more than one intelligence rank if the statistic varies depending on the area. This means that they can reach exceptional levels in some respects, but be unimpressive in others.

Here are some examples:

• "Below Average normally. Extraordinary Genius in scientific disciplines" may be appropriate for characters who…
• "Below Average normally. Genius in Martial Arts, combat & strategic thinking" may be appropriate for characters who…
• "Genius normally. Nigh-Omniscient with X power" could be appropriate for characters who …
• “Genius with artificial intelligence” and “Extraordinary Genius while possessed” is appropriate for characters that technically lack a mind of their own, but are still capable of exceptional intelligence.

 

[Vietthai96]

No they shouldn’t be mindless. Although this gives me an idea.

Let’s create a text for artificial intelligence and add it to the existing sections. I will craft an idea of what I mean.

To be honest, even before i comment, i think about a Programed rating for character that are Robot, A.I but i held myself back. Because i face this problem long before

 

[Arnoldstone18]

To be honest, even before i comment, i think about a Programed rating for character that are Robot, A.I but i hel myself back. Because i face this problem long before

I changed my mind, the wordings already on the intelligence page is good enough to fit Robot.

The programmed AI can be assessed like a typical mind as long as we mention that it is A.I.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Bumpy

 

[Arnoldstone18]

BUMP!

 

[Antvasima]

Personally I would keep it at Suggested Rankings. While the standards are in more common usage now, the inherent problem with a fixed intelligence scale remains.

Okay. Thank you for the reply.

So what do we currently need to do here then?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I would like to just add two examples and that will be all.

Upon further inspection of the intelligence page, adding texts describing Artificial Intelligence to all rankings would be unnecessary.

Its NOT that these beings are mindless because they literally lack a mind, Their alternative mode of thinking must be mentioned. I have drafted an example that should go with artificial intelligence, possession, etc.


The end result should look like this: (look at the last bullet point)

here are the details

 

[Antvasima]

Is this something that I did not add earlier?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yes, I wanted to make one last addition under “examples”

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

What do you think, @DontTalkDT ?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/intelligence-page-a-tiny-addition.137099/post-4802870

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Bump

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Here is what needs to be added under Notes, examples.

“Genius with artificial intelligence” & “Extraordinary Genius while possessed” are appropriate for characters that technically lack a mind of their own, but are still capable of exceptional intelligence.