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Instant Death Revision

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Hello everyone, recently I've seen a lot of downgrades for Instant Death verse here, so I'm going to debunk it, specifically for this thread. So, the premise of the thread uses and conforms to the WoG or QnA, which states that Mitsuki's Dream is localized and doesn't impact the entire "world". However, there is another point to that statement, which I'll explain in this thread.

Here is Fujikata's statement, he reminds us to look in more detail in the latest volume :

詳しくは最終巻で!
ミツキの夢は局所的なものですので、全体には影響を及ぼしません。
More details in the latest volume!
Mitsuki's Dream is localized and doesn't impact the entire world.

And this TS's argument :

Because Mitsuki's dream cannot affect the Ultimate Ensemble, but it does affect Celestial foundation.

That's a misunderstanding, he didn't even mention volume 15 to understand the context as Fujikata said, and claimed Mitsuki's Dream does only affecting Celestial foundation for no obvious reason.

While Fujikata refers to volume 15 in his statement, so, it's necessary at all; In Vol 15, the Ultimate God told us about the World, World means everything, the Ultimate Collection of all Ultimate Ensemble Worlds, parallel worlds, dimensions etc. Which means, the localized sentence implies Mitsuki's dream encompasses only one Ultimate Ensemble World, as the two statements are corresponded.

"Do you want to know? Well, it might be better for me to explain than for you to gather fragmentary information and interpret it on your own. The current individual is named Takatou Yogiri. It's a rather vulnerable life form inhabiting a certain planet in a certain universe of a certain world. I say 'current' because it could be an entirely different individual depending on the era and location. So, it's invincible in every sense. Vulnerable life form, you say? That's right. However, nothing can be done against it. It eliminates anything that threatens the state of Takatou Yogiri, trying to maintain that, from the 'world.' Oh, by 'world,' I mean the Ultimate Collection of the worlds, including all conceivable worlds. I know, saying just 'world' can lead to discussions about the outside of that world, different dimensions, parallel worlds, and so on. So I don’t mess around when I say 'world,' I mean it encompasses everything. I hope you understand it that way." —Volume 15

In addition to Fujikata linking his statement to vol 15, there is plenty of evidence proving that Mitsuki's dream encompassing one Ultimate Ensemble World. Such as :

  • Kyuuzaburou's sword can cut through the entire Ultimate Ensemble World, but Mitsuki can withstand it because the Ultimate Ensemble World is part of his dream. Even all the worlds that Kyuuzaburou has explored are nothing more than part of Mitsuki's dream.
"It's a sword, right? It's not necessarily sharper than other swords, but it's a weapon that's highly valued in this world," Mitsuki said. "Yeah, but this one is guaranteed to be sharp. It's never failed to cut anything before. Though it's so good that it sometimes cuts things I don't want it to," Koryu replied. "I see. So you think I can cut with it too?" "Mitsuki-sama! What he's saying is true! That is one of the 'exceptions' in the Ultimate Ensemble!" A woman standing next to the Great Sage turned pale. "So I'm also one of those 'exceptions'?" "But..." "Are you scared? If you avoid it, you'll lose, won't you?" Avoiding it wouldn't mean much. Eventually, the world would be torn apart and collapse. However, Kyuuzaburou wanted to see the Great Sage's shock when his sword cut through the world. That's why he made a clumsy provocation. "All right, let's do it," the Great Sage answered innocently and cheerfully. If he avoided it now, he might become paranoid about humans. Kyuuzaburou held his sword in his right hand and casually swung it sideways. He took a big step forward and swung from right to left.
"What the hell... what's happening?" Kyuuzaburou said in disbelief.
"It's simple. This world is just a dream that I'm seeing. You and that sword are just things I imagined in my dream. So, even if it looks like the world is being torn apart on the surface, it can't be broken. Because it's strange for you, who are just characters in my dream world, to be able to destroy it," the Great Sage explained. "That's ridiculous. Do you have any idea how many worlds I've travelled through? It's not just a million, it's almost reaching a billion. Are you saying they're all just dreams? Is that even possible?" Kyuuzaburou retorted.
Could he just accept that he was a fleeting existence? It was impossible. If he believed that, everything would be shaken. His identity would be completely destroyed. He couldn't believe it, no matter what.
"R-Right! You mentioned an 'exception' earlier! If that's the case, then the power of the sword should work in any world! The fact that it can work in various worlds with different laws is what makes it an 'exception'!" Kyuuzaburou exclaimed.
"True. But even if your understanding is correct, it doesn't prove that you're not just a part of my dream," the Great Sage replied.
In the end, it was a fact that no matter what Kyuuzaburo said or did, attacks could not affect the Great Sage. If he wanted to prove that his understanding was correct, he would have to resort to using force..
"If you've experienced so many worlds, you must know about the five- minute world theory, right?" the Great Sage said.
"Ha ha ha... You can't argue against a theory like that, I guess." The theory that the world had suddenly popped into existence five minutes prior was one that was impossible to refute. Even if one appealed to memories prior to the point of the world's origin, the theory could easily posit that those memories had come into existence at the same time.
"All of your memories and experiences are part of my dream."
"Like hell they are! You expect me to believe you made me?!"
"Taken to the extreme you could say that, but I didn't really have any direct influence on you. I let this whole world develop randomly. The only influence I had was setting up the initial options for the random number generator. Your life is still yours. You appearing before me here today is no more than a coincidence. I didn't plan it out in the least."
Kyuuzaburou wanted to believe it was all a lie, all nonsense. If he believed the Great Sage's words, there was no chance of ever beating him. Everything would rest in the palm of his hand.

  • UEG and the half-world she has destroyed are implied to be the part of Mitsuki's Dream, also, i think, Touichirou came back to reality tho.
“On top of that, we were killing people all over the world,” Haruto explained. “Though we personally didn’t accomplish much, Zakuro wiped out most major cities. In short, the world was basically doomed.” Using her subordinates,the UEG had made quite a bit of progress in wiping out all lifs in theworld. “Huh? So does that mean the Great Sage savedthe world?!” Tomochika asked. “If the Great Sage is responsible for this, then yes, Sion answered. “I am not familiar with my grandfather’s exact powers, but according to the rumors, this world is effectively a dream that he isseeing.”
them changed, showing the state of the entire world rather than just Belm. “Half the population is dead. I never expected she’d do something like this. I figured a lot of people would get killed when she tried to take revenge on me or the goddesses, but I didn’t expect a massacre like this...” “Even if it’s only half the population, all the major cities have been destroyed, so the world is basically over, right?” Van said. “And that beam of light she fired went right through the core of the planet, so the whole thing will probably fall apart soon.” “So gathering the survivors together and trying to rebuild civilization is no good, then?” “No, recovering from this is probably impossible. We’ll have to reset. Hmm. I don’t want to go too far back. How about here?” Van had no idea what Mitsuki had done, but since he flopped back down on the grass, he must have already been finished. “Huh? You’re just resetting it without warning?” “No time like the present, right? I’ll leave the rest to you.” “You’re not that serious about this, are you, gramps? Fine, I’ll do better this time.” After saying that, Van lay down on the grass beside his grandfather and closed his eyes.
All of that feats explain the world are nothing than a part of Mitsuki's imagination, he can do everything what he wanted to, all of the world are meaningless for him. Also, for Qualitative Transcendence, it is noted that within Mitsuki Page his Ontology are more real or likes a real player that sees the Ultimate Ensemble World as mere games or non-real/Illusion/fiction.

The entire Celestial Foundation is just a dream of Mitsuki, and a dream he can control at will, such as being able to rewind all of its events as if they never happened. This relationship extends all the way to UEG, as everything she did was also reverted, implying that she is also bound to his dreamworld. Mitsuki is one of the exceptions of the Ultimate Ensemble World, with his power being able to work across all worlds of the Ensemble. Even Kyuuzaburou's sword, which is also exception of the Ultimate Ensemble World that is able to cut even Supreme Gods, is still nothing more than part of Mitsuki's imagination. His nature was analogously compared to that of between a real player and a game.

In the novel.

"I never thought the world would end up like this!" "Even though you lost, you seem quite relaxed." "After all, it's just a dream. It's like a game that you can redo anytime. When a player character dies in a game, you wouldn't get worked up about it, would you?" "Bwahaha... Ahahahaha!" Kouryu suddenly burst into laughter. He couldn't hold it in and laughed loudly. "A game! It's like a game, right! Yes, yes!" "What's so funny? I'm not dead, you know?" It was obvious. Since Mitsuki was thinking like this, there was no way he was dead. "You're right, you're not dead. This time, Takatou Yogiri didn't kill you. That's why he released all of his power.

Furthermore, If Mitsuki dies the world will be disappear, thought it's truth or not, other feats already prove my argument.

The conclusion is, Mitsuki and Yogiri will be back 1-A with Qualitative Transcendence, and then Ultimate God will be 1-A too since he is the strongest in every possible world.
 
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Yeah. Let's assume I have RW power. You come at me with a sword and try to slash me. I use my RW power to not get any damage. Do I get R>F? No. My powers makes me able to do so.
Your analogy is false. Since the narrative mentioned The 5 minutes Theory and also "Player>Game" analogy.

Because it is. No, the "analogy" isn't "self-explanatory". If I had RW power over the planet while being able to do anything I wish, I would also assume the world is nothing but a game to me.
But i won't be that confident to said i'd survive against absolute Instant death which i've seen all the time.
"He fought them for fun".

No proof of what you're stating. He did so to transform the world into his dream. Because, otherwise, he doesn't see anything as its dream.
That was Mitsuki's habit when fighting, even the other gods were the same.
No scans and word salad.
"Ontology" of every exceptions are special in every worlds, therefore they can Ignoring the fundamental laws in every worlds.
Could he just accept that he was a fleeting existence? It was impossible. If he believed that, everything would be shaken. His identity would be completely destroyed. He couldn't believe it, no matter what.
"R-Right! You mentioned an 'exception' earlier! If that's the case, then the power of the sword should work in any world! The fact that it can work in various worlds with different laws is what makes it an 'exception'!" Kyuuzaburou exclaimed.
"True. But even if your understanding is correct, it doesn't prove that you're not just a part of my dream," the Great Sage replied.
In the end, it was a fact that no matter what Kyuuzaburo said or did, attacks could not affect the Great Sage. If he wanted to prove that his understanding was correct, he would have to resort to using force..
 
It's very apparent to me that many of the arguments here stem from people simply not reading posts. I think it'd be best if the OP and those that agree with him took the time to read the relevant scans and posts.
 
Still don't get how him getting some power from supreme gods = Being able to dream everything
And so? You're arguing for "some unknown means" that's NEVER stated in verse.
Kyuuzaburou came from a different world, same with the sword, Mitsuki says all his memories are real but are still part of his dream meaning that Mituski's dream world would literally need to be more than just 1 celestial foundation
He didn't come from another world. It was just a false memory given by Mitsuki. He might as well just started existing at the start of Volume 15 for what it's worth.
Uh, no? Kyuuzaburou's sword didn't cut him, and then when he tried again the sword smashed upon impact
It did cut space, it just didn't work. You literally see this with the light novel illustration. The sword "true power" is to cut space. That's what it does.




Tomochika resisting the exception just means there's a mystery behind the Dannoura family. Mitsuki himself is intrigued by it.
Scan. You're also ignoring ALL the other characters who have resisted this charm ability.


Okay? Still doesn't mean he got the power from the 3 supreme gods
It's very much the reason on how he got his "nigh-omnipotent power".

If you wish to assume he got his "dream power" another way, sure, give me the scan. If you show me no scan, it's just a headcannon then.
 
Your analogy is false. Since the narrative mentioned The 5 minutes Theory and also "Player>Game" analogy.
"Your analogy is false"

=> Literally what happens in verse.

Sure.
But i won't be that confident to said i'd survive against absolute Instant death which i've seen all the time.
What? What do you mean? I don't understand what you're referring to here?
That was Mitsuki's habit when fighting, even the other gods were the same.
I'll not entertain you more than I already am. Think whatever you want.
"Ontology" of every exceptions are special in every worlds, therefore they can Ignoring the fundamental laws in every worlds.
No, his exception is his charm. It's useless.
 
And so? You're arguing for "some unknown means" that's NEVER stated in verse.
It's also never been stated that the supreme gods where the reason he got his power, guess we're even
He didn't come from another world. It was just a false memory given by Mitsuki. He might as well just started existing at the start of Volume 15 for what it's worth.
We literally got an entire chapter for his backstory
It did cut space, it just didn't work. You literally see this with the light novel illustration. The sword "true power" is to cut space. That's what it does.
No it's not, the swords power Is to cut anything and make it impossible to reattach. If it's power was cutting space then a weak slash wouldn't be destroying an entire world. Also yes It didn't work, that's the point. An exception that can cut anything no matter what was blocked by Mitsuki's hand and then shattered on the next strike
Scan. You're also ignoring ALL the other characters who have resisted this charm ability.
Who else?
 
It's also never been stated that the supreme gods where the reason he got his power, guess we're even
=> He had no power
=> Goddesses gives him power
=> He now has power
=> "never stated how he got his powers".
We literally got an entire chapter for his backstory
Yeah, and that would be merely false memory. Both aren't exclusive to each other.
No it's not, the swords power Is to cut anything and make it impossible to reattach. If it's power was cutting space then a weak slash wouldn't be destroying an entire world. Also yes It didn't work, that's the point. An exception that can cut anything no matter what was blocked by Mitsuki's hand and then shattered on the next strike
"No it's not"
The Great Sage lifted his left hand to intercept the sword, no doubt intending to block it. But what was attacking him wasn’t just a sword blade; it was a phenomenon splitting apart space itself
It is cutting space, just higher in potency than most things.

Yeah, it doesn't work because it's a sword (and a character) created by Mitsuki. If he's stronger than the sword, it's obvious it wouldn't work against him.
Who else?
Malnarilna for example. They both were close to Mitsuki, yet they were never "attached romantically" to him. Furthermore, during the final act, a lot of people saw the body of Mitsuki, yet not everyone (if any) were affected by his charm. It works on male too (although less potent from what I recall) Van isn't "a simp" for Mitsuki either.

He does have a charm, and it does works on some people, but not everyone. Just like the sword.
 
=> He had no power
=> Goddesses gives him power
=> He now has power
=> "never stated how he got his powers".
So because he get's some power from supreme gods that magically makes him dream everything now? Also your still not giving me proof that the power the supreme gods gave was the dream power, just some god power

Yeah, and that would be merely false memory. Both aren't exclusive to each other.
He literally got sent to that world, and also you'd be saying that yogiri's past life was "false memory's" Which isn't true at all

"No it's not"
"Yes it is"

It is cutting space, just higher in potency than most things.

Yeah, it doesn't work because it's a sword (and a character) created by Mitsuki. If he's stronger than the sword, it's obvious it wouldn't work against him.
Yea, It's cutting space and able to cut anything, don't know why that changes anything

It's not created by Mitsuki

Malnarilna for example. They both were close to Mitsuki, yet they were never "attached romantically" to him. Furthermore, during the final act, a lot of people saw the body of Mitsuki, yet not everyone (if any) were affected by his charm. It works on male too (although less potent from what I recall) Van isn't "a simp" for Mitsuki either.

He does have a charm, and it does works on some people, but not everyone. Just like the sword.
We don't even know the relationship between them, all we know Is that they and Mitsuki came into the celestial foundation one day. As form Men not being effect It's not suppose to, I mean Mitsuki wasn't surprised when yogiri wasn't all over him.

The charm and sword work on everything and everyone, It's literally what an exception it
 
So because he get's some power from supreme gods that magically makes him dream everything now? Also your still not giving me proof that the power the supreme gods gave was the dream power, just some god power
"Nigh-omnipotent"

I prefer to believe that the only information we got about him getting power is the real deal, rather than assuming some "untold third ways" he got his power.

And so what? Maybe UEG could do the same but couldn't bother, same with every single god we've seen. Or maybe they couldn't because they first had to take control of the world.
He literally got sent to that world, and also you'd be saying that yogiri's past life was "false memory's" Which isn't true at all
No. I'm saying that whatever he experienced wasn't true and all made up by Mitsuki. Yogiri and Tomochika homeworld isn't some "fake memories" since they don't originate from Mitsuki's world in the first place.
Yea, It's cutting space and able to cut anything, don't know why that changes anything

It's not created by Mitsuki
Just like Mitsuki made Kyuuzaburou, he made the sword too.
We don't even know the relationship between them, all we know Is that they and Mitsuki came into the celestial foundation one day. As form Men not being effect It's not suppose to, I mean Mitsuki wasn't surprised when yogiri wasn't all over him.

The charm and sword work on everything and everyone, It's literally what an exception it
We don't need to know. The moment Malnarilna was around Mitsuki, she should've gotten head over heels for him, which clearly isn't the case.



I'm saying, "he's glad that Yogiri didn't take a liking to him" is fairly self-evident. He thought that it might work, but it didn't. Van, too, thought it would work, which sadly didn't.

You have several proofs of characters not being affected by the charm of Mitsuki. I don't know what else do you need. It's not because something "works the same in every world" that "it can't fail in one world". It's a limitation of the sword itself or a feat for the character in front.
 
This confuses me. Although Mitsuki made it, Kyuuzaburou and his sword are "exceptions" are true, thus all his memories and experiences are also true. But yeah, it's nothing than Mitsuki's Dream, Mitsuki's Dream need to be equivalence to impact and withstand it. Yeah but that's vague i think
 
Well done, i had a little enlighment here. So, Mitsuki used the five minutes world theory to describing his power (i.e., dream). The five minutes world theory talk about the paradoxs of exist and not exist that the world suddenly popped up to existance "5 minutes prior", but also, its just an Imagination that does not exist. Means all of the world that "exist" or popped up to existance is nothing than Illusion or technically "doesn't exist" for Mitsuki. That's why Kyuuzaburou's Sword would never reach Mitsuki since the sword just non exist/meaningless for Mitsuki. And that's why everything that existed before Mitsuki are also stated meaningless for him.
Could he just accept that he was a fleeting existence? It was impossible. If he believed that, everything would be shaken. His identity would be completely destroyed. He couldn't believe it, no matter what.
"R-Right! You mentioned an 'exception' earlier! If that's the case, then the power of the sword should work in any world! The fact that it can work in various worlds with different laws is what makes it an 'exception'!" Kyuuzaburou exclaimed.
"True. But even if your understanding is correct, it doesn't prove that you're not just a part of my dream," the Great Sage replied.
In the end, it was a fact that no matter what Kyuuzaburo said or did, attacks could not affect the Great Sage. If he wanted to prove that his understanding was correct, he would have to resort to using force..
"If you've experienced so many worlds, you must know about the five- minute world theory, right?" the Great Sage said.
"Ha ha ha... You can't argue against a theory like that, I guess." The theory that the world had suddenly popped into existence five minutes prior was one that was impossible to refute. Even if one appealed to memories prior to the point of the world's origin, the theory could easily posit that those memories had come into existence at the same time.
"All of your memories and experiences are part of my dream."

"Like hell they are! You expect me to believe you made me?!"
"Taken to the extreme you could say that, but I didn't really have any direct influence on you. I let this whole world develop randomly. The only influence I had was setting up the initial options for the random number generator. Your life is still yours. You appearing before me here today is no more than a coincidence. I didn't plan it out in the least."
Kyuuzaburou wanted to believe it was all a lie, all nonsense. If he believed the Great Sage's words, there was no chance of ever beating him. Everything would rest in the palm of his hand.
Sion answered. “I am not familiar with my grandfather’s exact powers, but according to the rumors, this world is effectively a dream that he is seeing.”
"What the hell... what's happening?" Kyuuzaburou said in disbelief.
"It's simple. This world is just a dream that I'm seeing. You and that sword are just things I imagined in my dream.
Surprisingly, in Vol 15, Ultimate God told us about hierarchy of the Gods, and us who seeing him as fiction is higher class while he is the lower class. Yeah sure, this is not just a metaphor cuz Ultimate God call us a chick, but also says higher class of Gods cuz we viewing him as a mere fiction. Implying the higher class of Gods viewing the lower class as mere fiction, just like Mitsuki and the other Gods.

Having said that, there is a hierarchy of gods. I am the lower class and you are the higher class But you are just a chick who has just stepped on the ladder to God. It's only at this stage, and I don't know what the future holds. So I won't look down on you, nor will I look down on you. Maybe you will surpass me in the blink of an eye. When that happens, please give me more advice. I will treat you as my senior who treats me gently and takes good care of you.
 
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I disagree with the changes. The major issue is that Mitsuki gained his powers from the goddesses to the point that his powers, compared to the goddesses, can work on a percentage; 1-A cannot really divide in such a way.
Volume 13 suggests that Mitsuki has just beauty power, but the later Volume 14 seems to have been retcon that it is from the goddess.
From Volume 15. it seems possible to ascend through sheer effort or some of enlightenment to a ladder in hierarchy, like for humans to become a higher god, based on cosmology. However, Mitsuki's case largely implied that he did not really do it. Unless the goddesses are 1-A, I doubt Mitsuki will be 1-A.
 
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Volume 13 suggests that Mitsuki has just beauty power, but the later Volume 14 seems to have been retcon that it is from the goddess.
I wouldn't say it's a retcon. He truly only had his "beauty power" when he was born, as shown in his backstory. The "nigh-omnipotent" power he gained from the goddesses is everything else.
From Volume 15. it seems possible to ascend through sheer effort or some of enlightenment to a ladder in hierarchy, like for humans to become a higher god, based on cosmology
It is done through fighting intense fight and continuous breaking of limits. It would mean that someone can get to 1-A level of power through fighting non 1-A being or worse, while fighting 1-A being without being one itself. It would still be problematic regardless imo.
 
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