Instant Death Discussion Thread

[NIK_FARIS]

I want to ask, Yogiri's type 5 acausality is only for key 1b?

Yeah, Only for his true form.

 

[Kuroneki00]

Can I ask, I heard that Instant Death Novel got only 2 volume left? Is that right?

 

[Rozi]

Can I ask, I heard that Instant Death Novel got only 2 volume left? Is that right?

I don't know about that

 

[Ren1999]

The verse did not use R/F at least in its relation with higher dimension. What I mean is that they explain about higher universe (that is collection of universes contain in much larger universes) rather than leave it vague like the case in WN. There might be R/F after this since the mentioning of dream is quite frequent use in the series but we have to wait till then.

wait a minute, is it about higher universe can meet the entry requirements of tier 1

sorry if my question is troublesome, I don't understand about tier 1 except how the R>f works

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

I want to ask, Yogiri's type 5 acausality is only for key 1b?

Yeah, Yogiri's power carries his True Form power so his Instant Death is aca 5.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I want to ask, Yogiri's type 5 acausality is only for key 1b?

Well it's how normally works

 

[Anonykay]

So, does anyone read eng official for vol 11?

I just finished it.

I think the bit about the star splitter sword would mean most sages are planetary to star level in AP and Durability.

Also a question about Kouryu's explanation about universes inside larger universes. When Darian killed himself it created an alternate universe, I think I saw here an explanation that the universe is considered as still being inside the same heavenly record, so going by what Kouryu said wouldn't that make each parallel world a 4D space inside an heavenly record, a 5D space?

 

[Rozi]

I just finished it.

I think the bit about the star splitter sword would mean most sages are planetary to star level in AP and Durability.

Also a question about Kouryu's explanation about universes inside larger universes. When Darian killed himself it created an alternate universe, I think I saw here an explanation that the universe is considered as still being inside the same heavenly record, so going by what Kouryu said wouldn't that make each parallel world a 4D space inside an heavenly record, a 5D space?

4d maybe

 

[NIK_FARIS]

I just finished it.

I think the bit about the star splitter sword would mean most sages are planetary to star level in AP and Durability.

That’s question if Sage can directly gain that ability. While sage can manipulate the system, they only seem to be able to grant or gain abilities of what they could gain rather than any abilities from BS system. Because ability of person can gain from BS system depend on their fate value.

Also a question about Kouryu's explanation about universes inside larger universes. When Darian killed himself it created an alternate universe, I think I saw here an explanation that the universe is considered as still being inside the same heavenly record, so going by what Kouryu said wouldn't that make each parallel world a 4D space inside an heavenly record, a 5D space?

That would just mean different timeline making it atleast 2C construct by itself. Though that being said, considering that it’s stated that universes contain in larger universes, I feel like we can safely assume that the Abyss dimension encompasses 3D space (MeanIng superior qualitative of 4D) + 1 time from the Abyss itself would lead to 5D.

 

[Anonykay]

4d maybe

I was thinking having multiple 4Ds inside something should make it 5D

That’s question if Sage can directly gain that ability. While sage can manipulate the system, they only seem to be able to grant or gain abilities of what they could gain rather than any abilities from BS system. Because ability of person can gain from BS system depend on their fate value.

LoL, first read BS as bullshit before I remembered battle song.

I was thinking since sage Van didn't think much of all the abilities it would mean he was superior to what they could do or at least comparable. But then again he mentioned skills like ultimate defense being able to block it and skills that ignore defense would be better than it, so maybe skills like that is where the confidence comes from, but the fact that there's a star level sword which is made out to not be a big deal makes it feel like the potential AP of someone like say Sion should be comparable

That would just mean different timeline making it atleast 2C construct by itself. Though that being said, considering that it’s stated that universes contain in larger universes, I feel like we can safely assume that the Abyss dimension encompasses 3D space (MeanIng superior qualitative of 4D) + 1 time from the Abyss itself would lead to 5D.

Yes, I believe Elizhaa once mentioned 2C heavenly record possibly being the case based on Darian before.

I don't get what you're saying in the abyss part, could you clarify?

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

That’s question if Sage can directly gain that ability. While sage can manipulate the system, they only seem to be able to grant or gain abilities of what they could gain rather than any abilities from BS system. Because ability of person can gain from BS system depend on their fate value.

That would just mean different timeline making it atleast 2C construct by itself. Though that being said, considering that it’s stated that universes contain in larger universes, I feel like we can safely assume that the Abyss dimension encompasses 3D space (MeanIng superior qualitative of 4D) + 1 time from the Abyss itself would lead to 5D.

HRE tier low 1-C and all Worldview holder 5D plot manip and resist let's gooo XD

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

I was thinking having multiple 4Ds inside something should make it 5D

Nah, we shouldn't assume a space that is capable of holding multiple 4D structures as higher or bigger dimensions than 4D.

 

[Anonykay]

Nah, we shouldn't assume a space that is capable of holding multiple 4D structures as higher or bigger dimensions than 4D.

Yeah, but when UEG was about to die she stated she would destroy the universe and the higher level universe that encompasses it, so I thought from that universes inside another universe would make the latter an higher D space than what it holds. Though you could argue that the higher level universe is referring to the world sea itself not the heavenly record but I still feel that the heavenly record should be an higher space if it can hold alternate worlds.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Btw how many dimensions it's confirmed in Novels i mean in the verse how many dimensions exist

 

[Anonykay]

Btw how many dimensions it's confirmed in Novels i mean in the verse how many dimensions exist

Do you mean higher dimensions or different dimensions like number of heavenly records?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Do you mean higher dimensions or different dimensions like number of heavenly records?

Higher Dimensionality

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Btw how many dimensions it's confirmed in Novels i mean in the verse how many dimensions exist

It not exactly known. At least countless given that the fight between UEG and Toichirou ascended to the point that she lost count. Possibly infinite given infinite space and time. There also the fact that UEG can ascended much further and only stop because she is bored and Toichirou getting scared because knowing her power.

 

[Anonykay]

Higher Dimensionality

The agreed amount on wiki is endless/countless but not infinite. It's gotten from UEG and Toichiro's fight, they were shown to ascend to a 5D space and the ascension which should have been endless eventually came to an end after UEG felt she'd seen enough, that's how it went in ln. Personally think it should be infinite since it's stated it should have gone on forever

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It not exactly known. At least countless given that the fight between UEG and Toichirou ascended to the point that she lost count. Possibly infinite given infinite space and time. There also the fact that UEG can ascended further but stop because she is bored and Toichirou getting scared because knowing her power.

Oh. Whis is this? Toichirou .

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The agreed amount on wiki is endless/countless but not infinite. It's gotten from UEG and Toichiro's fight, they were shown to ascend to a 5D space and the ascension which should have been endless eventually came to an end after UEG felt she'd seen enough, that's how it went in ln. Personally think it should be infinite since it's stated it should have gone on forever

Thanks

 

[Anonykay]

Oh. Whis is this? Toichirou .

He's also a god

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He's also a god

Btw how is this sea thing is considered as in wiki.?

 

[Anonykay]

Btw how is this sea thing is considered as in wiki.?

The world sea is what contains heavenly records, it also contains heavenly record eaters and other beings also roam through it. It's at least a 5D construct, might be 6D if heavenly records are agreed to be 5D.

And on a side note the fight between UEG and Toichiro didn't happen in the sea, they went to a different and more conventional world that started with a big bang and has higher Ds

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The world sea is what contains heavenly records, it also contains heavenly record eaters and other beings also roam through it. It's at least a 5D construct, might be 6D if heavenly records are agreed to be 5D.

And on a side note the fight between UEG and Toichiro didn't happen in the sea, they went to a different and more conventional world that started with a big bang and has higher Ds

Thanks

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

Yeah, but when UEG was about to die she stated she would destroy the universe and the higher level universe that encompasses it, so I thought from that universes inside another universe would make the latter an higher D space than what it holds. Though you could argue that the higher level universe is referring to the world sea itself not the heavenly record but I still feel that the heavenly record should be an higher space if it can hold alternate worlds.

Oh, for that I do agree.
Like what Ultima says in the 1-B ID upgrade thread. The author and UEG herself explicitly differentiate between the universes, parallel/alternate universes, and the higher-level universes making it obvious that those universes are not just 3D or 4D universes, but higher.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

wait a minute, is it about higher universe can meet the entry requirements of tier 1

sorry if my question is troublesome, I don't understand about tier 1 except how the R>f works

The verse follow principle of lower dimension embedded within higher dimension which is one of the ways to be tier 1. In which lower dimensional universe are smaller part contain within much larger universe. This show that higher dimension in fact refer to much much larger space compare to lower dimension disapproving any idea that it is the same size or being smaller size dimension(like that of string theory). In addition, the higher dimension is stated that if can’t be perceive by lower dimensional being plus higher dimensional being can do anything on lower dimensional being without them unable to interact with it/ to do anything to it.

I don't get what you're saying in the abyss part, could you clarify?

If you read the description for low 2-C, You will notice that other than destruction of space time continuum, there are also ways to qualify for it that is entire 3D space are embedded in 4D space. What I mean is that the entire 3D space(Human world) are embedded in 4D space that is the Abyss. That mean even without time, it structure already qualify for tier low2-c. And with time it will lead to 5D structure or low 1-C. The problem here is that the story never really tell us if it is the case here. Though, We can argue that the higher dimension should all work the same within the verse.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

wait a minute, is it about higher universe that can meet the entry requirements of tier 1

sorry if my question is troublesome, I don't understand about tier 1 except how the R>f works

I think Gurren Lagann also has the same kind of cosmology as Instant Death. As in, Gurren Lagann didn't use R>F either, yet still gain the H1-C tier.

There are many ways to gain tier 1, but the numerous use of R>F in story to gain tier 1 had become the common practice. Effectively overshadowing other methods and making it seems like the only way to get tier 1.

 

[Everything12]

It's also easier to understand then the more scientific methods of achieving it.

 

[Anonykay]

If you read the description for low 2-C, You will notice that other than destruction of space time continuum, there are also ways to qualify for it that is entire 3D space are embedded in 4D space. What I mean is that the entire 3D space(Human world) are embedded in 4D space that is the Abyss. That mean even without time, it structure already qualify for tier low2-c. And with time it will lead to 5D structure or low 1-C. The problem here is that the story never really tell us if it is the case here. Though, We can argue that the higher dimension should all work the same within the verse.

Oh, I got it now, thanks.

I read the abyss part again and I think it's fine to consider it like that. It was stated to have an extra dimension besides length, width and height, allowing people going through it to basically warp 3D space and go anywhere in it easily, and there are parts which show that there's still time separate from the abyss like the king in volume 4 spending a bit of time to find yogiri through the abyss and also getting trapped in it and having to watch the world pass by while starving to death.

I guess the best way to explain things would be that since heavenly records operate under different laws like how there's supposed to be space in yogiri's world and the world they're currently in has the land and sea directly on the heavenly record, so the world they were summoned from has abyss + time making it 5D, the world they're summoned to holds alternate worlds with their own time being held in the heavenly record making it 5D under a different condition.

Meaning heavenly records are at least 5D (and possibly higher but still low 1C I guess) for different or similar reasons.

 

[Rozi]

can immeasurable speed be able to resist the stop time?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

can immeasurable speed be able to resist the stop time?

Yeah. If i am correct

 

[Delta333]

like that of string theory

String theory is not tier 1 by default

 

[NIK_FARIS]

String theory is not tier 1 by default

Umm, yeah. It maybe my wording is a bit confusing. when I say string theory in the statement, I mean to refer it to being small compactified dimension( in scale of Planck) like normal string theory. String theory to get tier 1 only work if it using something like M-theory. There might be others but I am not familiar with other terms related to that topic.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Question why does yogiri even need tomochika’s sword if he can just end all battles with his instant death attack

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Question why does yogiri even need tomochika’s sword if he can just end all battles with his instant death attack

Well, he doesn’t. That’s why it listed as optional equipment. The only reason why he ever use it is to disguise his power(don’t want to show his power) or if necessary needed like fighting monster to gain point. Due to his power can’t be analysed and have no correlation between cause and effect, system can’t determine whether he actually kill someone.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Well, he doesn’t. That’s why it listed as optional equipment. The only reason why he ever use it is to disguise his power(don’t want to show his power) or if necessary needed like fighting monster to gain point. Due to his power can’t be analysed and have no correlation between cause and effect, system can’t determine whether he actually kill someone.

I am curious why he would need to gain points? It’s pointless if you have instant death hax go brrr

 

[NIK_FARIS]

I am curious why he would need to gain points? It’s pointless if you have instant death hax go brrr

Because they are in a game set by Sage which can only progress via gaining point(Vol 12). You have to defeat and kill monster to gain point. The problem is that if he use his power on them, the system can’t determine if Yogiri the one killing them.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Because they are in a game set by Sage which can only progress via gaining point(Vol 12). You have to defeat and kill monster to gain point. The problem is that if he use his power on them, the system can’t determine if Yogiri the one killing them.

i like this since it means yogiri needs to actually use effort to defeat the enemy instead of one shotting every opponent.

sounds like good writing

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Well, he doesn’t. That’s why it listed as optional equipment. The only reason why he ever use it is to disguise his power(don’t want to show his power) or if necessary needed like fighting monster to gain point. Due to his power can’t be analysed and have no correlation between cause and effect, system can’t determine whether he actually kill someone.

But tomochika needs yogiri's sword though.

 

[Abstractly_a_Protagonist]

My idea is kind of how Yogiri's true form completely beyond the entire cosmology and all its laws and systems down to its conceptual level. Being like god which can exist in nonexistence state after destruction of their concept mean nothing to him as both existence and nonexistence beings are one and the same. There also what Kouryu said to UEG. UEG stated that there the concept of nothing does not exist and Kouryu didn't answer it directly like "There are concept of nothing" but rather use analogy of dream to describe what had happen to her.

This can be taken in two meaning,
1. First that True form nonexistence state is not concept of nothingness but rather something much pure, like pure nothingness lacking any concepts.
2. The very cosmology as a whole is nothing more than Yogiri's dream which would include existence and nonexistence(like gods). Which also mean he above both of them. While this sound like metaphor at first glance. There lot of the word 'dream' mentioning withing the series as a whole include Neechan series with the most blatant of what The Great Sage had done by resetting the world and also stated that the world are nothing more than his dream.

Of course this just my interpretation. I know there are other ways which it can be interprets which had nothing to do with NEP nor TD so I plan wait till we get more information from vol 14

Question! Is there such thing as the concept of nothingness? When I explain to my friend about NEP, he asks, "Isn't nothingness a concept too?" This has been bugging me, and I remember you saying the concept of nothingness in the post above.

Is there actually a concept of nothingness?