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Instant Death Discussion Thread

What chapter was it stated or implied that HRE exists beyond time and space? Does existing in the sea of nothingness automatically implies that? Because it says that space-time is a part of it.
 
Also to those that don't know, the Heavenly Records being said as "bubbles in the sea" is just a metaphor and isn't meant to be taken at face value. It was directly stated "It spread its enormous mouth widely. It was a mouth certainly big enough to be able to swallow a Heavenly Record."(V3Ch10) The wide opening of its mouth is equal to a size of a single Heavenly Record/space-time/universe.

And regarding about the talks of "2nd" or "3rd seal". The light novel and manga doesn't talk about multiple seals but singular. So yeah that's that.
 
>Does existing in the sea of nothingness automatically implies that? Because it says that space-time is a part of it.

If you are referring to space-time being part of the Sea: Space-Time is not part of the Sea, the author said "Incidentally, since it can be compared to the sea, there is also depth within this space.". This is a space of nothingness beyond to those that exists within a universe continuum, since all space-times are cointaned in the bubbles, not in the nothingness.

This is a similar case to Oblivio where he also exists in a space of nothingness and is still beyond space. The author is just using the word "Space" to refer to the place that is the nothingness.

If you are referring to space-time being part of the HRE: That is because he eats them and stocks them within himself (hence why the "part of itself" statement), which grants him powers to control space and time. He already moves in place where space and time doesnt exist anyways

"For an existence like the Heavenly Record eater, space-time was a part of itself. The surrounding space and time were within the range that it could be controlled with its own will, and predicting the future and the like were simple"

"The Heavenly Record eater decided to release the stockpiled power that ate numerous worlds. Something like this wasn't worth eating."

Space-Times from the universes he eats, are part of itself.
 
It was never stated in the chapter that the Sea of Nothingness isn't bounded by space and time though. A void can be bounded to time(example DBS, despite being stated as devoid of time, time passes and time manip. can work on the realm). This is a false equivalence because unlike Oblivion who was perfectly stated and supported to be beyond all levels of space and time and even existence, the 'Sea' was never referred to be beyond time.

Being able to manipulate space and time doesn't give it the ability to transcend it, there are numerous characters that are like this, especially when the author said that "Five seconds ahead. The future after that couldn't be seen. Its time was ending there."
 
When HRE went back to the "Sea" it was described as the flow of time became fuzzy. If the "Sea" is really beyond all levels of space and time, they would've mentioned it right? Or something saying that the Sea is devoid of it.
 
Kerwin0831 said:
When HRE went back to the "Sea" it was described as the flow of time became fuzzy. If the "Sea" is really beyond all levels of space and time, they would've mentioned it right? Or something saying that the Sea is devoid of it.
Click to expand...
Thats a good point actually. I'll wait for Abyss or Yung to comment here
 
Well, as you can see...there are a few ways to interpret this.

The HRE is stated to have space-time be part of itself (Which are heavenly records). So therefore it must be above space-time, which means the "SEA" isn't space or time...at least you would think.

I have no idea though tbh. Kinda neutral on the interpretation.
 
EmperorDoom25 said:
Kerwin0831 said:
When HRE went back to the "Sea" it was described as the flow of time became fuzzy. If the "Sea" is really beyond all levels of space and time, they would've mentioned it right? Or something saying that the Sea is devoid of it.
Click to expand...
Thats a good point actually. I'll wait for Abyss or Yung to comment here
Click to expand...
"It trembled at the enormous power hidden in that body.
It quickly realized that it wasn't a small human or something.
At this moment, the flow of time became fuzzy, and it was filled with an omnipotent sense.

It recognized the size of the existence called 'itself', and the lowness of the struggling human beings living on the Heavenly Record.

Thereupon, rage *bubble bubble* welled up."

Seems like it is either flowery language or the with his rage the HRE disrupted the surrounding time whithin the canopy, or in other words, the shell of the world. Which by the way is the reason why the Heavenly Records are compared to bubbles in a Sea. And the five seconds thing is from his avatar so I do not know how that correlates directly with his true form.

As a side note. Can the depth of the Sea be considered an additional dimensional axis or no?
 
The flow of time, if taken seriously, can refer to the "Sea" or the Bubble/Canopy because was never strongly implied which is the case so yeah that isn't really a concrete evidence of how the "Sea" is beyond space and time.

The "10 Second before death" was also effective in his true self though. Just before he would unleash his attack while being in the void, Yogiri blitz him. It said that 10 secs from now, his death would be recognised.

"『Die』

"The instant it tried to release it, the Heavenly Record eater returned to itself. It had a feeling that it heard something. And, it realized that 10 seconds after now, death would be realized In the Heavenly Record eater's final moments, it thought 'I'd be fine if I didn't wake up to self-consciousness or something like that'."

I was hoping that someone has a statement of the "Sea" being beyond space and time later in the novel.(Currently in volume 3).

If the depth of the Sea would be considered as an additional dimensional axis then it would be 5D. Considering that the basic premise is that a 3-D universe exists in a 4-D structure(space-time) but there's no concrete evidence that the "Sea" is infinitely beyond the domes/canopy/bubbles that each contain multiple worlds/universes and the series has never said like the basic premise. So yeah, I disagree the depth of the Sea being an additional dimensional axis.
 
Kerwin0831 said:
The "10 Second before death" was also effective in his true self though. Just before he would unleash his attack while being in the void, Yogiri blitz him. It said that 10 secs from now, his death would be recognised.
Click to expand...
EDIT: Oh, now I get what you mean, nevermind
 
Anyways, we already went through that discussion before and even some Staff members agreed with Immeasurable speed for the HRE.

Im pretty sure the "10 seconds thing" is just the author's way to imply for us (readers) a notion about the "time" left for the HRE that is about to die (and also to show some reactions from the latter). This happens a lot in the series btw, some foes showing their reactions and vislumbring their final moments before their inevitable death and things like that.
 
Pretty sure a HRE needs to enter the canopy of the Heavenly Record to interact with it as it is a protection that, while being an easy task, is a must do for a HRE and the HRE is actually shown doing that back when he created his avatar to be a farmer and he remained in the same HRE when it decided to create its second avatar.

I was more curious about the dimensional thing than trying to make a case for it so it's fine.
 
@Monster

Mhm that makes sense but the author could've explained it better like "With that real form drifting in the "Sea inside the canopy/bubble/dome."

@Emperor

I thought of that possibility but that's only valid if the novel actually stated that time and space doesn't exist in the "Sea". The only way that I see for the HRE to be immeasurable in speed is that if the reasoning was "space-time is stated to be only a part of his avatar. Returned to his true self which is bigger than his avatars, to destroy Yogiri's world"

-So wait just a confirmation, this is regarding in size. It's something like this right? Dome/Canopy/Bubble > Heavenly Record Eater > Heavenly Record/Universe
 
Wait, why the bubbles/dome would be bigger than HRE's true form?

The Dome protects the Heavenly Records (which are universes in size), right? And the HRE can eat them just with his mouth
 
I could see the HRE not being immeasurable..but Im pretty sure Yogiri still is.

Like....his Instant Death is clearly beyond time (and fate), since the HRE couldnt prevent his death by going back in time.
 
The Domes/Bubbles were never stated to be smaller than HRE nor has it been said that HRE is bigger than the Domes. The Domes exists to protect the Heavenly Records/Universes inside from the HRE. Each dome contains multiple worlds. It was never stated that the HRE eats the dome. The HRE needed to enter the Dome/Canopy/Bubble, though it's easy, to devour the worlds. And its mouth opened widely is comparable to a single universe/Heavenly Record meanwhile a bubble/dome contains many universes/Heavenly Record.
 
Kerwin0831 said:
The Domes/Bubbles were never stated to be smaller than HRE nor has it been said that HRE is bigger than the Domes. The Domes exists to protect the Heavenly Records/Universes inside from the HRE. Each dome contains multiple worlds. It was never stated that the HRE eats the dome. The HRE needed to enter the Dome/Canopy/Bubble, though it's easy, to devour the worlds. And its mouth opened widely is comparable to a single universe/Heavenly Record meanwhile a bubble/dome contains many universes/Heavenly Record.
Click to expand...
I thought about that but....Its still confusing me

The author stated that every Heavenly Record is like a bubble floating in the Sea, so each bubble would be a heavenly record. And the HRE already ate numerous heavenly records on his life. Perhaps the bubble and the canopy are not the same thing?

There exist countless other Heavenly Records, and those Heavenly Records are contained within a space referred to as the "Sea". A Heavenly Record is like a bubble floating within this "Sea".

Heavenly Records were covered in a firm shell called the canopy, but for a Heavenly Record eater that had eaten many worlds for each canopy, opening a very small hole and entering inside was easy. There was no special reason in choosing that Heavenly Record.

So...he broke the canopy and the author states "choosing that Heavenly Record". So...the HRE basically destroyed the canopy that protects only one heavenly record, not many.
 
The bubbles floating the sea part is a metaphor that most likely refers as the co-existance of the canopy and the heavenly record. As far as I remmeber the bubble metaphor was introduced before the canopy so that might be a reason as to why the canopy is not specified in the explanation given in chapter 3. Either that or heavenly records are shaped spherically like a what people often imagine a universe.

But yeah, I don't know where the multiple HRE inside a single canopy was pulled from, that is never said within the novel or even alluded to they're more likely to be individual.

So can space-time exist outside of another space-time? Because if the HRE consumes the space-time that are Heavenly Recrods then that would mean that they're just space-times within a bigger space time.
 
『That is why the Heavenly Records are surrounded by a boundary called the dome. This is a bubble which floats in the "Sea" in that analogy from long ago.』(Mokomoko) Mokomoko specifically states that HRs(plural) is surrounded by a dome and that done is a bubble which floats in the "Sea". It's not a metaphor, Dome, Bubble, Canopy is all one and the same. Here it's implied that a Dome surrounds Heavenly Records/Universes.

"Heavenly Records were covered in a firm shell called the canopy, but for a Heavenly Record eater that had eaten many worlds for each canopy, opening a very small hole and entering inside was easy." Another statement implying that each canopy has many worlds.

There was no special reason in choosing that Heavenly Record. A nearby Heavenly Record was just selected. The goal of the Heavenly Record eater was to observe the intelligent body, it was basically because an intelligent body existed in the Heavenly Record. Is saying the statement after the one in the top is saying that there was nothing special in choosing the universe/Heavenly Record that Yogiri was in. It's the same as saying "there was nothing special in grabbing that specific basketball contained in a basketball cage with many basketballs inside, it was merely because it's the closest."
 
I dont know why we are still discussing about his size....Even if HRE is not bigger than the Dome, he is still a Type 9 Large Size character since he is bigger than an entire Heavenly Record/Universe
 
Wait, the HRE feeds himself by eating the heavenly records/space-times right? If thats the case, then Im pretty sure that there is no space nor time in the Void of the Sea

Otherwise, he wouldnt bother eating the heavenly records....
 
The author never implied that tbh. IIRC, the HRE gets his powers from the space-times he eats, not from the Void/Sea or something like that. He needs to eat the heavenly records to feed and empower himself

If there was space/time in the Void, he would already be all powerful without the needing to eat other heavenly records to feed himself/grant him powers
 
Also, before someone says: "Oh, but the author said that the time became fuzzy when the HRE returned to his true form"

Yeah, that was because his true form was already INSIDE the CANOPY/BUBBLE which already contains space and time

Basically, Yogiri killed the HRE's true form when he was inside the bubble, not in the Void
 
Uh no, the author never implied what you said. It only said The Heavenly Record eater decided to release the stockpiled power that ate numerous worlds. It never said that the HRE got his space-time manipulation from eating HRs, it only gathered power.

Also it was never said that the HRE needs to eat heavenly records to empower himself. The reason why the HRE eats HRs is also never clearly stated. It could do it to empower itself or it could also do it because of the purpose of its existence or it could do it to acquire intelligence. Either way, it has not been explained.

For an existence like the Heavenly Record eater, space-time was a part of itself. Did it say or imply that his authority to control space-time was from the HRs that he consumed? No, it's most likely saying that space-time is a part of HRE because of his nature of existence or it could do it because it eats HRs. Either way, it's not been properly explained.

All he gets by eating HRs are intelligence and power. It never said that his hax/power to manip space-time came from eating HRs.
 
For an existence like the Heavenly Record eater, space-time was a part of itself. The surrounding space and time were within the range that it could be controlled with its own will, and predicting the future and the like were simple, but it had become unable to predict the future of after 10 seconds.

Tbh, you could interpret that part in two ways:

1.Since he already ate numerous space-times, it becames a part of itself and it allows him to control it (it grants him power)

2.He can control space-times due to its own nature (he never needed to eat them to control time and space)

Which one is the correct? I have no idea
 
That's what I've been saying(I just edited my comment because I forgot to add things) saying one or the other is correct is fallacious as the author never implied which is the case.
 
I agree

Well, I think it would be better to wait for the manga to reach that part, so we can analyse better from another point of view (and a more simple one)
 
Hey guys, I have a question

How does Yogiri's Immortality Negation actually works? Specifically about the negation of Type 8 and 9

Type 8: Reliant Immortality: The character cannot die as long as a certain being, object, or even concept exists.

9: Transcendental Immortality: Characters whose true selves exist independently from the plane where they can be killed.

Lets say that Yogiri is fighting Darkseid for example. Darkseid has type 9 because his true form (who is High 2-A) can just recreate the avatar any time of the day

If Yogiri uses his ability on the Avatar...does he needs to actually be able to kill the true form to also kill the Avatar and negate the type 9? Or he can just kill only the Avatar and Darkseid wouldnt be able to recreate it?
 
CB60D0B4-7322-4696-B3A4-F6C0339D5709
I completed reading the novel about 3 days ago and yesterday I was making a crt about Yogiri. Do you guys know what chapter and volume was it stated where Aoi's meta perspective can see through multiple lines of fate? I know I read something similar.
 
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