Instant Death degradation

[ZAMIR890]

As shown in this thread there is never reference to an ontological transcendence or reality fiction, as it is never mentioned https://vsbattles.com/threads/instant-death-low-1-c-change.126119/
The other argument is that you can only reach higher-level universes if you are higher dimensions, but this scan does not help at all. Being called dimensional does not give you anything if you do not show that an infinite transcendence or reality fiction apart, much verse they use this term in a way different from the one we use in this wiki, we also do not know if the higher order universes that are mentioned are transcendent

Another thing, the scan does not mention that it is necessary to be a higher-dimensional being to reach higher-order universes, the whole dialogue begins with UEG saying touchiro is a higher-dimensional being and that he did not think he would go that far, nothing indicates that I need to be a be of higher dimensions to reach these realms

 

[Lormac_CC]

I disagree, lower worlds are outright embedded on Higher world, these higher worlds are called higher Dimensional, this is pretty qualifies for 1-B, if you can debunk that idea that lower worlds are embedded on Higher then your agurment can be valid

 

[Tarang123]

I disagree, lower worlds are outright embedded on Higher world, these higher worlds are called higher Dimensional, this is pretty qualifies for 1-B, if you can debunk that idea that lower worlds are embedded on Higher then your agurment can be valid

I mean, I think we need a description of how these higher dimensions work other than "containing lower worlds" which shouldn't qualify at all. Tho, I don't really know a whole lot about Instant Death due to only starting to read it recently.

 

[ZAMIR890]

I disagree, lower worlds are outright embedded on Higher world, these higher worlds are called higher Dimensional, this is pretty qualifies for 1-B, if you can debunk that idea that lower worlds are embedded on Higher then your agurment can be valid

"You are much more of a higher-dimensional being than I thought. I didn't think you'd make it this far." (UEG) it is only UEG affirming touchiro that he is a being of higher dimensions that from the context only seems to be because of his rank as god and that he is surprised that there may be more, it is never affirmed that it is necessary to be a being of higher dimensions

 

[ZAMIR890]

and the scan where supposedly there was fiction reality tracendence by the comparison with a book page was a bad translation unless it can show me that there is a true tracendence I don't see why it should have that level
and the scan where supposedly there was fiction reality significance by comparing it with a book page was a bad translation unless it can show me that there is a true tradition, I don't see why it should have that MTL level: * * * * * * It was a world of different dimensions, literally. Astral world, astral world, astral world. It is a world that goes by various names, but simply put, it is a fourth dimension with another parameter added to the three dimensions of length, width, and height. Man was able to move back and forth between that dimension and three-dimensional space at will. It was too advantageous a skill. Through the other dimension, he could go anywhere and evade any attack. As for attacks, as he had previously shown, he could ignore any defense and destroy the interior. And ordinary humans would not be able to recognize this space and would have no way to counter it. Faced with this ability, there could be no enemy. With this kind of power, it's no wonder mere humans look like insects. With this kind of power, no one could deny that he was not only a king, but also a god. The difference between him and a mere human is too great. However, this power is not unique. There are five people who can do the same. Each of them calls himself king.
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[Bernkastelll]

and the scan where supposedly there was fiction reality tracendence by the comparison with a book page was a bad translation unless it can show me that there is a true tracendence I don't see why it should have that level
and the scan where supposedly there was fiction reality significance by comparing it with a book page was a bad translation unless it can show me that there is a true tradition,

it already was removed from the profiles before, no need to talk about it, Ultima was the one who approved 1-B even without using the book page argument, so, go talk with him ig?

 

[Odinson]

I disagree, lower worlds are outright embedded on Higher world, these higher worlds are called higher Dimensional, this is pretty qualifies for 1-B, if you can debunk that idea that lower worlds are embedded on Higher then your agurment can be valid

How do these dimensions work exactly ? Because your description implies no kind of transcendence.

 

[Elizhaa]

Dimemsions' case would be similar to this case from the tiering system:
A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.

I don't see a need for changes because Low 1-C tiers, scan, and justifications were removed. 1-B is still valid.

 

[PhantomØ4]

If there wasn’t any kind of transcendence then I really don’t understand UEG’s deal with going to higher-space times and how it was used as something that indicated power and that Yogiri ignored/went beyond.

 

[Tarang123]

Dimemsions' case would be similar to this case from the tiering system:
A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.

I don't see a need for changes because Low 1-C tiers, scan, and justifications were removed. 1-B is still valid.

Then ig the 1B tier stays

 

[Darksmash]

The reason 1-B was "validated" was because these higher worlds had their own planets and celestial bodies, which apparently means they satisfy the tiering system. However, having read the chapter in question, I feel like this is being severely misinterpreted. Especially since the "higher universes" didn't even show up till the latter half of the chapter in question. Their fight started in some neutral universe outside the heavenly sea(or whatever it was called) and slowly escalated in scale(this is where the celestial bodies show up) until it eventually hit parallel universe level destruction and eventually went into the talk about the higher universes.

So yea I think the downgrade is valid

 

[Ren1999]

wow this must be fun, I'll see how the replies are supported Instant death

 

[PrinceofPein]

So the OP is saying there is no R>F between the worlds and also the higher ones are not infinitely larger?
following

 

[Odinson]

So the OP is saying there is no R>F between the worlds and also the higher ones are not infinitely larger?
following

Read Elizhaa's counter and please tell what do you think after reading it

 

[PrinceofPein]

Read Elizhaa's counter and please tell what do you think after reading it

I just did, what i can say is if there is proof that the said lower worlds are smaller than the smallest physical thing in the higher world(compact dimensions) then they qualify, but a higher world containing and been bigger than a lower world does not automatically qualify, it must be infinitely larger.
the Op scans are in JP, and i dont have time to translate so i cant really say if they qualify

 

[PhantomØ4]

I don’t know Japanese but the whole thing with Tochiro wasn’t that it was required to be of a higher dimension to enter higher worlds but simply that UEG didn’t think that Tochiro would get that far as that much of a higher dimensional being. If you wanted to say they refer to his status as a god only then they would probably use higher-order.

I doubt that the only way for this to work is to be said to be a requirement and being said to be one as they go into higher-order worlds is like a thing.

There’s also the context behind this that is that they’re supposed to be getting bigger and bigger in the fight until they trivialize the universe and then the parallel universes and then higher order worlds.

 

[Teezar]

Not related but heavenly records are universes right?and heavenly world eaters(those fish kind of beings) qualify for Low 2-C right?

 

[PhantomØ4]

Not related but heavenly records are universes right?and heavenly world eaters(those fish kind of beings) qualify for Low 2-C right?

They’re already 2-B off that, yes.

 

[Odinson]

the whole thing with Tochiro wasn’t that it was required to be of a higher dimension to enter higher worlds

So, people don't need to be on the same level of dimensionality as higher worlds BECAUSE they can enter them (these worlds) without it ? Interesting.

 

[Teezar]

They’re already 2-B off that, yes.

But they eat heavenly records 1 by 1 so that's low 2-C but yeah the heavenly records are stated to be countless.

 

[Darksmash]

Tochiro could also just be "higher dimensional" in the sense that he was able to access a universe outside the heavenly records. More of a range thing I guess. Regardless, it had no direct connection to the universe they had arrived to iirc

 

[Teezar]

You are much more of a higher-dimensional being than I thought

This isn't enough for Low 1C tbh

 

[PhantomØ4]

But they eat heavenly records 1 by 1 so that's low 2-C but yeah the heavenly records are stated to be countless.

But they store the power of the ones they consume over the course of eternity. But anyways, derail.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Tochiro could also just be "higher dimensional" in the sense that he was able to access a universe outside the heavenly records. More of a range thing I guess. Regardless, it had no direct connection to the universe they had arrived to iirc

I don’t see how higher-dimensional can be used in that manner. UEG uses it as a way to refer to his power/ability to keep up with her so far anyways.

 

[Darksmash]

I don’t see how higher-dimensional can be used in that manner. UEG uses it as a way to refer to his power/ability to keep up with her so far anyways.

Yes and reaching a universe outside the heavenly records can probably be considered under that context

 

[Saiyan40009]

Yes and reaching a universe outside the heavenly records can probably be considered under that context

Okay but I don't think being called dimensions qualifies for low 1c is more the context that the verse uses for a being that can go beyond the registers but we don't give giratina low 1c for being out of the multiverse

 

[Darksmash]

Okay but I don't think being called dimensions qualifies for low 1c is more the context that the verse uses for a being that can go beyond the registers but we don't give giratina low 1c for being out of the multiverse

Yea I agree with that. Which is why I think a downgrade can happen unless there is some additional context that I am unaware of.

 

[Saiyan40009]

It was an ocean of stars.

It is a different world system governed by different laws, not the celestial record where Toichirou and his friends were, where each celestial record floats in the "sea".

The universe began with the Big Bang and has been expanding ever since.

Planets orbit stars, stars come together to form star clusters, and star clusters come together to form galaxies and supergalaxies. It is the world.

"You are much more of a higher dimensional being than I thought. I didn't think you would get that far." (UEG)
this is the scan but there are two strange things both statements happen at two different times and it is never shown that the record is smaller or infinitely smaller than the planets of those higher order universes

 

[Darksmash]

That universe wasn't even called a "higher universe" iirc

 

[Antvasima]

Elizhaa seems to make sense to me above. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Antvasima]

Or can somebody explain any significant counter-arguments in a single post?

 

[Teezar]

You are much more of a higher dimensional being

This isn't enough for HDE tbh.

 

[Orioreeem]

What would be the tier if the downgrade goes through?

 

[Tarang123]

I mean, based on elizhaa’s post, 1B probably stays. Otherwise, it might become tier 2

 

[Odinson]

^look at pain's response for elizhaa.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

What would be the tier if the downgrade goes through?

2B or 2A

 

[Antvasima]

I just did, what i can say is if there is proof that the said lower worlds are smaller than the smallest physical thing in the higher world(compact dimensions) then they qualify, but a higher world containing and been bigger than a lower world does not automatically qualify, it must be infinitely larger.
the Op scans are in JP, and i dont have time to translate so i cant really say if they qualify

@Elizhaa

What do you think about this?

 

[Saiyan40009]

The problem is that the wiki thinks that this galaxy is much bigger than the celestial records, which is false, since the context never shows that it does not say that Touchiro and his friends are in a celestial record that float in a sea of stars together with another many more later uge tells us about how big bang the existence of planets and super galaxies expanded as you can see at no time this text correlates or it is stated that the sea where the records are I know the universe that ueg mentions so it does not proves that that universe was infinitely tracendent although darksmash is much better than me at explaining the point

 

[Saiyan40009]

if the lower order universes were embedded above de. higher order should have been destroyed when ueg destroyed the higher worlds. thing that didn't happen

 

[Elizhaa]

if the lower order universes were embedded above de. higher order should have been destroyed when ueg destroyed the higher worlds. thing that didn't happen

I think this context is wrong. The text stated her power dissolve into Yogiri's true form so that is why UEG didn't destroy anything.