Inclusion of my Cthulhu Mythos Blogs to the page?

[GLHF22]

@Azzy

I want to ask something, how many gates are in Mythos?

 

[MasterOfArda]

So, what tier would the Outer Gods be? 1-A+? High 1-A?

If dimensions are to be proven higher infinities (Which is where all the evidence is pointing towards so far) Outer Gods will be High 1-A.

Would Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth be 0 then?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Azzy
I want to ask something, how many gates are in Mythos?

That's not really a question I believe is answered. Carter passes through the First Gate to the realm of the Ancient Ones, and then goes diretcly through the Ultimate Gate to the realm of the ultimate gods. However, there are clearly not only two gates. While the realm of the Ancient Ones is undimensioned and dreamlike, the story gave me the impression it was only the ultimate extension of Carter's Earth.

"A gate had been unlocked—not indeed the Ultimate Gate, but one leading from earth and time to that extension of earth which is outside time, and from which in turn the Ultimate Gate leads fearsomely and perilously to the Last Void which is outside all earths, all universes, and all matter."

"He was in many places at the same time. On earth, on October 7, 1883, a little boy named Randolph Carter was leaving the Snake-Den in the hushed evening light and running down the rocky slope and through the twisted-boughed orchard toward his Uncle Christopher's house in the hills beyond Arkham—yet at that same moment, which was also somehow in the earthly year of 1928, a vague shadow not less Randolph Carter was sitting on a pedestal among the Ancient Ones in earth's trans-dimensional extension."

"The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing—the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate, where 'Umr at-Tawil dictates dreams to the Ancient Ones. Though men hail it as reality and brand thoughts of its many-dimensioned original as unreality, it is in truth the very opposite."

Essentially, the world Carter knows is the 3-D phase of the "small wholeness" reached by the First Gate, but said world is just the small wholeness that embodies the ultimate form of his reality.

Meanwhile, the ultimate abyss beyond the Ultimate Gate is outside of all earths, universes, matter, etc. It is completely transcendent of the "small wholeness" represented by the world of the Ancient Ones, which is the ultimate, transdimensional version of Carter's world.

This leads me to believe there are an endless number of other gates, as each of the infinite universes has their own, which leads to their ultimate extension, and that it's possible from there, they connect to the ultimate abyss, which is outside and beyond all of them, as all of these undimensioned beyond-worlds are just infinitesimal things to the beings of the ultimate abyss, who stretch beyond all conceptions of size and are what everything else is cut from.

This is the interpretation I got, but Fan may have a different one. Regardless, I'm convinced that the most likely answer is "each world has a gate".

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Would Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth be 0 then?

I was not around for the revision of the upper-end of the tiering system, so I don't know the new policy on "number of tier 0s", but if we're back to there only being one, I'd definitely argue it's Azathoth, and that Yog is High 1-A. There are different interpretations that could change this (some of which I believe), but this is going solely off of what we know.

 

[AlexZiggy]

Someone on Discord is doubting that those "limitless vacua" Hypnos crossed are hierarchical levels. May I have some input on this issue?

Has this individual read Fan's blog? It may help

 

[Antvasima]

@Azathoth

I would recommend that you read the following pages for information about the new system:

Tiering System

Tiering System Explanation Page

 

[MasterOfArda]

@Azathoth

I think it is now fine for there to be as many tier 0s as we need.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ant

Yeah, I figured out most of the new stuff, as I'd been part of and heard discussions on it, before it happened.

I just don't know if our policy dropped back to "one Tier 0 per setting" or if there can still be multiples.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. There can still be several tier 0 characters in a setting.

 

[KingPin0422]

@Azathoth

Firstly, there's no limits on how many tier 0 characters a verse can have anymore. All it is is "transcends High 1-A hierarchies like High 1-A transcends 1-A hierarchies."

Secondly, I don't want to reveal who this person is, but lemme just quote them real quick:

"It's not stated except the Gate is beyond them"

" I can buy Outer Gods being pos. High 1-A Regardless tho"

"It's just that they keep swimming through "virgin aether" through a limitless series of vacua beyond all thought and entity"

"Their journeys are called "plungings""

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ant

Then I guess I'd argue Yog probably qualifies for that, too? It's described as having "limitless being and self" even when talking about the other Archetypes, and it's supposed to be allied to the totality of existence, including the ultimate abyss. Nothing else gets similar descriptions. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

@KingPin0422

• "It's not stated except the Gate is beyond them"

I don't know what this is in relation to.

• "I can buy Outer Gods being pos. High 1-A Regardless tho"

Outer Gods being High 1-A would more likely than not be a combination of Through the Gates of the Silver Key and the quotes from Kull, alongside a few other more minor stories as support. Hypnos could probably be used as support, but it's not what would give them said tier, I'd imagine.

• "It's just that they keep swimming through "virgin aether" through a limitless series of vacua beyond all thought and entity"

I'm not entirely sure what this is meant to say. Is it implying they did not go anywhere or something? The same quote that mentions them swimming through virgin aether makes mention that they have reached realms of greater remoteness than any before, so they have clearly reached somewhere new.

"Viscous obstacles were clawed through in rapid succession, and at length I felt that we had been borne to realms of greater remoteness than any we had previously known." - Hypnos

• "Their journeys are called "plungings""

"Human utterance can best convey the general character of our experiences by calling them plungings or soarings; for in every period of revelation some part of our minds broke boldly away from all that is real and present, rushing aërially along shocking, unlighted, and fear-haunted abysses, and occasionally tearing through certain well-marked and typical obstacles describable only as viscous, uncouth clouds or vapours." - Hypnos

Up or down is irrelevant, hence why two words that convey the opposite meanings are used. They're also described as being a "period of revelation", which breaks away parts of their minds and bodies from all that is "real and present", which is similar to what happens when Carter passes through the First Gate.


Still, I am not Fan, and it would likely be better to let him say what his proposal is with Hypnos, but I'm doing my best to clarify.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ant

That is probably fine, but it may be best to ask for input from Ultima Reality, Sera EX, DarkLK, and DontTalkDT in order to make certain.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

@Azathoth

I think the guy when he said this: "It's just that they keep swimming through "virgin aether" through a limitless series of vacua beyond all thought and entity"

Saying that they went through the realms but their existences aren't "transcendent" maybe? I've seen people argue that Hypnos doesn't scale to where he goes which I find silly.

 

[FanofRPGs]

All outer Gods should have platonic/Conceptual existence. I will elaborate more on my blogs but the Outer Void philosophically is intended to be a platonic realm "outside the cave"

 

[FanofRPGs]

I am struggling to rewrite my blogs to be concise in what I want. Doesn't help that I am super tired (8 hour shifts that last till 1:00 in the morning then school at a 8:00 in the morning FTW).

I have a plan though, but it will be complex and it will **** up my blogs for a bit, so yeah.

• I need to discuss the parallels between The Book and Fungi From Yuggoth

• Explain the philosophy of Turtles all the Way Down and juxtapose it with how Kull and the Gates and the Outer Void works

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The effort is definitely appreciated.

 

[FanofRPGs]

The effort is definitely appreciated.

This is a question for Lovecraft's philosophy, is it fully possible his philosophies may be anathematic to that of Plato and Hume overall, but many concepts from them or the like such as the infinite causal regress of an ideal world, the theory of forms, the inability to measure god, etc still be applicable even if Lovecraft disliked their philosophical methods?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I imagine those that clearly present themselves certainly could be. Lovecraft was a strangely paradoxical man, so I don't think any possible disdain for them actually prohibits their inclusion.

 

[GLHF22]

I guess this can be added? So

Elder God (Hypnos) : High 1-B possibly 1-A+

Outer Gods : High 1-A

Yog and Azzy : 0

 

[ShivaShakti]

hmmmm

 

[Antvasima]

@Azathoth

Would you be willing to handle these revisions?

 

[FanofRPGs]

@Azathoth
Would you be willing to handle these revisions?

I still need to finish my blogs for some stuff

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I would also appreciate some progress here.

 

[Planck69]

I would also appreciate some progress here.

FanofRPGs seems to be done with the philosophical desciption of Lovecraft's works at the very least. But I think we should at least update the verse page with the new defintion of what is acceptable as canon to the Mythos as well as the blog to along with it. It doesn't seem to be incomplete and would even allow other users to help scope out new additions to the Mythos.

 

[FanofRPGs]

I am done with college for a few weeks and work seems to be winding down slightly too, so I should be less busy, but I am very tired and emotionally drained in general so I may still be slower.

 

[Planck69]

I am done with college for a few weeks and work seems to be winding down slightly too, so I should be less busy, but I am very tired and emotionally drained in general so I may still be slower.

No problem, your health should come first. Do you think your first blog can be applied though? It seems pretty straight-forward and seems to be a good starting point to the revisions. On a more personal note, I'm partial to the verse being named Weird Tales Mythos or The Lovecraftian Mythos more but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Please try to take care of yourself and recover then.

 

[Elizhaa]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Has anything happened here?

 

[Roachman40]

bump?

 

[PsychoWarper]

I think it was bumped since nothing ever came from this including any of the proposed upgrades/tier changes.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is mostly up to FanofRPGs to drive this project forward.

 

[FanofRPGs]

I am not really feeling it tbh. College and work is too stressful and I feel very drained and anxious.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am sorry to hear that.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Well with the recent Yog and Azzy thread that may change the tiering suggested here.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you link to it here please?

 

[Elizhaa]

It is this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3955752

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. (I already knew about that one. My apologies.)