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Imagine admitting that Darkseid is platonic and resides in an archetypal world and then saying he's 5D on the same page
- Thread starter Awsometime
- Start date
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- darkseid dc comics the source
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- 124
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- Thread starter
- #42
I only said that because he not only said I was doing nothing but bothering him, but also said that no matter what I say, it's not getting changed. Why would I bother continuing to argue something that's moot? Anyway, I wasn't getting "physically mad," I find this thread hilarious.
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That's literally not what ant said. He said that no matter what I say it's not getting changed. So I ask again. Why would I continue to argue changing it?
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Well, that pretty much defines you as a troll then.Awsometime said:
Anyway, the problem isn't that you argued for an upgrade, it is that you argued for a usually displayed as very limited character to get a tier with a scale far beyond human comprehension based on very slanted interpretations.
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Here are some people that you can ask to comment here if you wish:
Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Sera EX, Kepekley23, Huesito88, PrinceOfTheMorning.
Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Sera EX, Kepekley23, Huesito88, PrinceOfTheMorning.
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- #51
How does finding something funny make me a troll?
Anything past hyperversal is far beyond human comprehension, how does that mean anything? I imagine you wouldn't want to argue that the god sphere doesn't transcend the living realm, and I've proven that the living realm is high hyperversal. So does transcending high hyperversal just make you higher hyperversal? I've also said before that if you're gonna make up the term of "falseness platonic concept." The burden is on you to prove that it's contradicted. Then being displayed as limited to 5D has already been countered.
Anything past hyperversal is far beyond human comprehension, how does that mean anything? I imagine you wouldn't want to argue that the god sphere doesn't transcend the living realm, and I've proven that the living realm is high hyperversal. So does transcending high hyperversal just make you higher hyperversal? I've also said before that if you're gonna make up the term of "falseness platonic concept." The burden is on you to prove that it's contradicted. Then being displayed as limited to 5D has already been countered.
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Half the people here weren't acting professionally either so it's fair to let that be now.
To Antvasima you seem to be very stubborn dismissing any scans and links he gives, saying you won't change no matter what is stubborn and close minded, no offense but this is part of the Wiki's problem.
But he should talk to this Matthew you mentioned.
I don't think it's fair to dismiss the possibility since y'all don't even know how to use your own speed scale, you put many characters to MFTL+ and mostly only putting 5D beings to Immeasurable speed even though that's not the only way to have Immeasurable speed, it should be up to debate and y'all should be more open, this was only one example of your failings in power scaling and etc.
That's all I have on my mind, please don't ban him or me, just try to be more open to change since Power scaling is an ever evolving Meta.
To Antvasima you seem to be very stubborn dismissing any scans and links he gives, saying you won't change no matter what is stubborn and close minded, no offense but this is part of the Wiki's problem.
But he should talk to this Matthew you mentioned.
I don't think it's fair to dismiss the possibility since y'all don't even know how to use your own speed scale, you put many characters to MFTL+ and mostly only putting 5D beings to Immeasurable speed even though that's not the only way to have Immeasurable speed, it should be up to debate and y'all should be more open, this was only one example of your failings in power scaling and etc.
That's all I have on my mind, please don't ban him or me, just try to be more open to change since Power scaling is an ever evolving Meta.
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The issue is that comics are ridiculously inconsistent, and all that has been firmly established about the true selves of the New Gods is that they are much larger than individual universes and exist in planar time across all the 52 main DC universes. That fits very poorly with the sheer scale that you are trying to assign them, and much better with a High 2-A rating, which is generous in itself. We cannot scale them from the Source itself either from DOTNG, which didn't make any coherent sense, or Darkseid's avatar being freed from the Source Wall, as we might as well scale regular DC superheroes to 1-A from fighting it in that case.
Anyway, I am literally juggling 40 tasks at the same time here, and Matthew was the one who assigned the New Gods their current ratings, so if you wish to change their tiers, ask him and the others to comment here.
Anyway, I am literally juggling 40 tasks at the same time here, and Matthew was the one who assigned the New Gods their current ratings, so if you wish to change their tiers, ask him and the others to comment here.
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For the platonic shit concept
It is simple, batman has only referred to the sphere of gods being a "platonic or archetypal" realm, I.e the superstructure they originate from, he has only referred to them specifically as living ideas, and if we take batman's statement for granted (I guess u can cus platonic bullet n shit) then it has to be referring to avatars, why?
Because batman said that wally has dealt with these true form new gods before, It's important to keep in mind that Wally hasn't actually encountered Any of the New God True Forms yet, you are probably thinking "he probably is talking about them in another comics"
"Superman, Batman and the Justice League know about the New Gods because they've met them, but we've never really seen the New Gods in their full power before. We've seen their actions. The DC superheroes see the New Gods as other superheroes in the way that Orion or Barda can join the Justice League. They've never understood that what they really are are f---ing gods. This story's about the first time Darkseid actually manifests on the planet. Everything we've ever seen before has been kind of projections from the world of the New Gods and for the first time we're seeing them in their full power. And it's like what would happen if a god appeared on the planet. Galactus is one god. This is a whole bunch of them; that's how bad it is."
So ok, now that's out of the way,this also correlates with metron getting killed by dr manhattan in rebirth , of course as established wether this is a avatar or not is irrelevant.
And if you agree that this is a platonic concept, then you'd have to also go by the definition that every object linked to the platonic ideal also gets erased if the platonic concepts gets erased, now tell me why the speed force wasn't effected by metron's death? hm?
the monolith embodied the same kind of inspirational lighting-touch from Beyond. Maybe Metron is a little more literal and specific an image, but he's kind of like an angel ― an angel of electricity and writing and inspiration like all of those messenger/writer gods I mentioned above. So I see him as the headman, the Platonic form, behind guys like the Flash and all the electric-based heroes in the DC Universe." - Grant Morrison
All of this is just generally showing grant doesn't have a single ******* idea of how to define a platonic concept, let alone the atemporal and aspatial aspects
"Creation is high 1-B"
lol
The only scan not "refuted" in that thread is the limbo one
Firstly, this comes from Spectre, 1987, Issue 8, which by the way, precedes the time when Limbo was first introdcued in animal man, issue 25,It's referring to limbo as in purgatory, the entire plot is regarding zatanna getting weird spooky crazy mega death things done to her ,so the spectre went to find her body in limbo, the land of the beings who aren't either dead nor living, it's not like this is the only time limbo has been defined as such, like in day of judgement, regin in hell, etc. Again, The reason this is my point is bcus this really doesn't mean anything unless its grants limbo, even then it wouldn't be Infinite D, but I see through that shit anyway
@Antvasima u can close this shit now ty
"To Antvasima you seem to be very stubborn dismissing any scans and links he gives, saying you won't change no matter what is stubborn and close minded, no offense but this is part of the Wiki's problem."
"Still, I suppose that I may have overreacted. I am extremely overworked, and do not have much patience for topics that have been argued to exhaustion previously."
read pls, he literally gave him a list of people to contact
"I don't think it's fair to dismiss the possibility since y'all don't even know how to use your own speed scale, you put many characters to MFTL+ and mostly only putting 5D beings to Immeasurable speed even though that's not the only way to have Immeasurable speed, it should be up to debate and y'all should be more open, this was only one example of your failings in power scaling and etc."
Trying to point out your subjective views on other, completely different things without any evidence isn't a point buddy
It is simple, batman has only referred to the sphere of gods being a "platonic or archetypal" realm, I.e the superstructure they originate from, he has only referred to them specifically as living ideas, and if we take batman's statement for granted (I guess u can cus platonic bullet n shit) then it has to be referring to avatars, why?
Because batman said that wally has dealt with these true form new gods before, It's important to keep in mind that Wally hasn't actually encountered Any of the New God True Forms yet, you are probably thinking "he probably is talking about them in another comics"
"Superman, Batman and the Justice League know about the New Gods because they've met them, but we've never really seen the New Gods in their full power before. We've seen their actions. The DC superheroes see the New Gods as other superheroes in the way that Orion or Barda can join the Justice League. They've never understood that what they really are are f---ing gods. This story's about the first time Darkseid actually manifests on the planet. Everything we've ever seen before has been kind of projections from the world of the New Gods and for the first time we're seeing them in their full power. And it's like what would happen if a god appeared on the planet. Galactus is one god. This is a whole bunch of them; that's how bad it is."
So ok, now that's out of the way,this also correlates with metron getting killed by dr manhattan in rebirth , of course as established wether this is a avatar or not is irrelevant.
And if you agree that this is a platonic concept, then you'd have to also go by the definition that every object linked to the platonic ideal also gets erased if the platonic concepts gets erased, now tell me why the speed force wasn't effected by metron's death? hm?
the monolith embodied the same kind of inspirational lighting-touch from Beyond. Maybe Metron is a little more literal and specific an image, but he's kind of like an angel ― an angel of electricity and writing and inspiration like all of those messenger/writer gods I mentioned above. So I see him as the headman, the Platonic form, behind guys like the Flash and all the electric-based heroes in the DC Universe." - Grant Morrison
All of this is just generally showing grant doesn't have a single ******* idea of how to define a platonic concept, let alone the atemporal and aspatial aspects
"Creation is high 1-B"
lol
The only scan not "refuted" in that thread is the limbo one
Firstly, this comes from Spectre, 1987, Issue 8, which by the way, precedes the time when Limbo was first introdcued in animal man, issue 25,It's referring to limbo as in purgatory, the entire plot is regarding zatanna getting weird spooky crazy mega death things done to her ,so the spectre went to find her body in limbo, the land of the beings who aren't either dead nor living, it's not like this is the only time limbo has been defined as such, like in day of judgement, regin in hell, etc. Again, The reason this is my point is bcus this really doesn't mean anything unless its grants limbo, even then it wouldn't be Infinite D, but I see through that shit anyway
@Antvasima u can close this shit now ty
"To Antvasima you seem to be very stubborn dismissing any scans and links he gives, saying you won't change no matter what is stubborn and close minded, no offense but this is part of the Wiki's problem."
"Still, I suppose that I may have overreacted. I am extremely overworked, and do not have much patience for topics that have been argued to exhaustion previously."
read pls, he literally gave him a list of people to contact
"I don't think it's fair to dismiss the possibility since y'all don't even know how to use your own speed scale, you put many characters to MFTL+ and mostly only putting 5D beings to Immeasurable speed even though that's not the only way to have Immeasurable speed, it should be up to debate and y'all should be more open, this was only one example of your failings in power scaling and etc."
Trying to point out your subjective views on other, completely different things without any evidence isn't a point buddy
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Well, the staff eventually get very tired of having to deal with the same topics over and over for several hundred posts, so demanding more and more sacrifice from them just leads to an eternal war of attrition that eventually upgrades most characters to completely unreasonable degrees.
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Note: I have not read this thread, nor do I really know the character in question - I am simply responding to the OP's question with the limited knowledge that I have.
Just being called Platonic doesn't mean that one is a True Platonic entity.
That why we have "False Platonic Concepts" on our Concept Manipulation page. For cases like Darkseid, who only has shown High 2-A feats according to his profile.
If you think this is inaccurate, and wish to upgrade Darkseid to 1-A, then the burden of proof is on you to prove as such with scans of evidence and feats that go beyond the comic saying that the Darkseid is Platonic in nature, that he is a True Platonic being.
Also, I would curb that attitude if you want to have your arguments taken seriously whatsoever if the title of the thread is anything to go by.
Just being called Platonic doesn't mean that one is a True Platonic entity.
That why we have "False Platonic Concepts" on our Concept Manipulation page. For cases like Darkseid, who only has shown High 2-A feats according to his profile.
If you think this is inaccurate, and wish to upgrade Darkseid to 1-A, then the burden of proof is on you to prove as such with scans of evidence and feats that go beyond the comic saying that the Darkseid is Platonic in nature, that he is a True Platonic being.
Also, I would curb that attitude if you want to have your arguments taken seriously whatsoever if the title of the thread is anything to go by.
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I just had to mass delete the contributions of a troll that posted in this thread. Given that the premise of this thread is ridiculous to start with, and it seems to attract controversy, should we close this?
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yesAntvasima said:
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