Ikki defeating four perfectly identical, but stronger, copies of himself

[Agnaa]

To cut to the chase, Ikki Kurogane apparently has a feat where he one-shots 4 clones of himself, which all are perfectly identical yet using a 48x powerup which he himself isn't using at the time.

This feat is in a feats page which is linked to from the main article and has been used i threads (if anyone has more examples of it being used in threads, tell me so I can link them here).

These copies are probably "half-hearted" (as the text says) or were otherwise not exact copies of himself. And even if the clones were 100% accurate, it would just be circular scaling which we don't allow. So either way, the feat should probably be cut from the feats section.

 

[Wokistan]

I mean even if all the statements are completely legit or whatever, we would just not use the feat because it's nonsense. There are statements that must be false for this to exist, the clones cannot all be equally skilled to him and be 48 times his strength if him beating them is supposed to be a skill feat. Infinitely recursive skill scaling loop is bad.

Also: "These half-hearted copies were no match even with four of them attacking in unison, no matter how exact their reproduction. "

>Calls the copies half hearted then immediately says they're exact

rakudai plz

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yeah I dont think it should be used, they are either not exact copies or the feat is BS and should be ignored.

If it is determined that the clones werent perfect then it can maybe be used.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Maybe there's some sort of missing context that makes this somehow understandable? Because if not I could never really fathom how this could be possibly a thing.

 

[Agnaa]

If it is determined that the clones werent perfect then it can maybe be used.

Either way, it shouldn't be used as it currently is, where it's seemingly assumed that the clones are perfect yet he beat them anyway.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Could be physically perfect copies, but the skill part was half-hearted?

 

[Agnaa]

Could be physically perfect copies, but the skill part was half-hearted?

Could be, but even then, "Can one-shot clones 48x stronger than himself" would have to be disregarded without further context.

EDIT: Lancelot does bring up a good point, this is in the skill feats section of the profile, I'm not sure if "beats stronger but less skilled people" is worth of inclusion in that case.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Then is still not much of a good skill feat, seeing how beating "stronger" people is Ikki's every day life and 4 people that are simply a lot stronger and not much else isn't exactly a feat in comparison.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Either way, it shouldn't be used as it currently is, where it's seemingly assumed that the clones are perfect yet he beat them anyway.

That is true, as its currently used and interrupted it should not be used.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah I have to agree. This feat seems REALLY bull.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Isnt there a feat thats near identical to this in PMMM?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Seems like an Outlier or PIS

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Welp considering some of my previous statements on this feat I agree it's problematic, nonsensical and shouldn't be used.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Isn't this just a feat of reactive evolution? Or what's it called?

 

[Jinsye]

Isnt there a feat thats near identical to this in PMMM?

Mami won that by knowing her own weaknesses and using them to her advantage iirc. Not like Ikki where he just beat them because i don't ******* know

 

[DMUA]

Well, the text makes it pretty clear that Ikki did the very same thing

I mean, he also did so while the text stated they were exact copies with 48x power while being half hearted, but hey, that's the difference between PMMM and Rakudai's writing quality

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Half hearted exact copies is kinda the line where things start to crash into Nonsensesulum, the stuff of nightmares.

And like, what was this weakness he abused exactly?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Didnt he just kinda dash forward and one shot them? Have seen the scan in awhile so dont totally remember but if thats what happened its not really exploiting a weakness.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Half hearted exact copies is kinda the line where things start to crash into Nonsensesulum, the stuff of nightmares.
And like, what was this weakness he abused exactly?

The clones had different thought patterns from the original Ikki iirc

 

[DMUA]

"since he was facing himself and he knew the strengths and weakness and moves and habits better than anyone"

right here, it states that he just exploited his own weaknesses and cut them down

 

[Wokistan]

But if they're equally skilled, he shouldn't be able to do this. They should do the same to him, and do it way better because they're 48 times as strong. So something is amiss.

 

[DMUA]

It's called "Rakudai's writing quality"

as already established

Or for something more on point, PIS

 

[Wokistan]

Which is exactly why people don't want to use this at all.

 

[PsychoWarper]

If its PIS then it should really be ignored like what people are saying.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Why not just consider this feat what it very clearly is, a case of pis and poor writing? This whole feat makes zero sense, the copies are stronger versions of him, they know all his weaknesses and strengths as well. It should be impossible for him to win this fight yet he does because of "SKEELS" Lets throw this feat out and be done with it

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

that's the point of this thread

 

[DeathNoodles]

If Firephoenixearl was still awake, I'm sure he would've argued that this feat would've been applicable anyways because of canon and lore context.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I dunno why the author insists everything Ikki does isn't supernatural. I could understand if he merely incapacitated each clone, but that wouldn't make sense they'd have to be 40x+ faster than him, and any hit would spell certain death. There really is no way to defend this feat.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

wait he does?

what version of reality does that man exist within?

 

[DeathNoodles]

wait he does?

what version of reality does that man exist within?

You referring to Earl or the Rakudai author?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

the author

 

[CynicalWeeaboo]

It's clearly just a skill feat

 

[DeathNoodles]

The problem here isn't about whether or not it is a skill feat, but whether or not the feat is actually applicable enough to be in the feats section and being used in Versus threads.

 

[CynicalWeeaboo]

Of course it can be. I've seen far more dubious feats used here. Ikki is pretty much the logical conclusion to an extremely meme skilled character. I see nothing wrong with including it.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

I was going to comment about thinking about commenting before reading your name

Now i see that you weren't joking

The issue with the feat is that it makes Ikki > Ikki. That is all that needs to be said for this to be disregarded as an outlier or PIS.

 

[CynicalWeeaboo]

And what's wrong with that? Ikki involves moment to moment at an incredible rate and those copies, while as skilled probably couldn't tap into it as well as him. So Ikki being > Ikki isn't all that unbelievable.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

You do hear what you are saying right?

Because your logic can be used to make Ikki literally any tier at all. High 3-A? Done. Low 2-C? Done. 1-A? Yeah sure.

What even is your initial argument? Speed? Because if so the clones were 48x faster than him so idek what your point is.

 

[Agnaa]

And what's wrong with that? Ikki involves moment to moment at an incredible rate and those copies, while as skilled probably couldn't tap into it as well as him. So Ikki being > Ikki isn't all that unbelievable.

This is headcanon, and hence unusable.

 

[CynicalWeeaboo]

He consistently evolves moment to moment and can go through decades worth of improvement and growth in a few exchanges. Him widening the existing skill gap between the clones as well as the stats gap isn't unbelievable. So yes Ikki could be > Ikki from a few moments ago i.e the clones.

If he were to get feats for those tiers then sure why not?

It's not an unreasonable assumption and I've seen greater logic leaps than that. Anyway, if they aren't as skilled as you seem to think then it's clear why he beat them. The answer doesn't change:

Skill.

 

[Jackythejack]

Wouldn't the clones also evolve from moment to moment.