I become Propellus' nemesis (Krypto AP nerf)

[Arceus0x]

I am going to commit great crime
I am goint to bust 6-C
in the vsbw

So basically, this is the evidence for Krypto's entire 6-C scaling:
"we're supposed to be collecting moon rocks, not rocking the moon" says Bull Dog as he smashes into a rock...
I think y'all see the issue right? This was a reaction to a dog bouncing around the moon (caused 0 shaking) and a dog fixing the flag which the other dog moved. Additionally he didn't warn them not to rock the moon, he said that they were rocking the moon when they are supposed to be collecting moon rocks, so clearly this isn't a warning or a serious statement of power.
To add to this, there are 0 feats beyond 8-A in this entire verse, making this already ultra vague statement a MASSIVE outlier. Heck, rocking the moon doesn't even automatically translate into 6-C anyways since that's the energy for a mag 5.

Overall: there's one 6-C feat and otherwise tier 8 feats at most (an 8-C feat and a baseline 8-A feat) and the explanation for the feat is vague, the feat doesn't actually happen and is literally just meant to be a joke, a pun on the fact that they were causing ruckus on the moon instead of collecting rocks, otherwise the guy punching the rocks apart would've definitely been rocking it if just the movement of the dogs was enough to cause such warnings. As you can see, it's a bad feat, and not really a feat at all.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Propellus You better win this

 

[Crabwhale]

Seems simple enough really. I'd like to hear what Prop has to say as well, however. So, @Propellus

 

[Propellus]

Aw, man after I was just getting into replacing some youtube scans to imgur scans and this is the thanks I get?

I have big disagreements against this, but I'll cook up a response later as I have things to do atm.

 

[Arceus0x]

Aw, man after I was just getting into replacing some youtube scans to imgur scans and this is the thanks I get?

I have big disagreements against this, but I'll cook up a response later as I have things to do atm.

they better be better than nu-uh cause rocking the moon is a damn pun and you know it

 

[ImmortalDread]

And the legendary fight has begun!

 

[Arceus0x]

And the legendary fight has begun!

look, i am all for tiers, accurate tiers. If Propellus has some uncalced High 7-A or 6-B or 5-A feat lying around somewhere then that'd be a good upgrade. Problem here is, the feat is literally nothing but a vague pun.

 

[Propellus]

look, i am all for tiers, accurate tiers. If Propellus has some uncalced High 7-A or 6-B or 5-A feat lying around somewhere then that'd be a good upgrade. Problem here is, the feat is literally nothing but a vague pun.

Jokes on you, I have actually calced Krypto ranging around High 7-C and 7-C+ based on his KE on a document but I have never uploaded it onto the wiki because it breaks Kinetic Energy rules, and it was rather experimental to begin with.

But anyways, いま, let's start.



So first of all, I'm just going to ask, do you even understand how the "possibly" rating mechanic works around this wiki when it comes to statements like this one? Because really literally all of the tier 8 feats that I've seen in the show are ultra casual and so far there hasn't been necessarily been any anti-feats against those at all. And even then, we have no idea if Bull Dog was just simply "joking" after Mammoth Mutt pulled off a stunt like that one so we do not know if that just being a pun is the case here. And even then he still warned them not to accidentally "rock" (Considering how Bull Dog speaks in a British accent, he literally means "to shake") the moon. And using that logic of him already being able to shake the moon, he was literally just pulling his strength onto that rock either way so the scenario won't happen. And also, did I need to mention that they're comparable to Krypto who can casually shake areas onto these scenarios? And even then, it's otherwise just a statement alone that wouldn't even be concrete enough to be sufficient for a full on 6-C upgrade anyway.

 

[Dalesean027]

following I'll need to see more of Propellus's argument before making a verdict but it seems simple

That said this is ONLY a POSSIBLY rating so it wasn't just ouright 6-C

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Propellus' reasoning is alright to me, especially since I'm reminded about how "possibly" ratings work

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I don't consider them having a single 6-C feat with a bunch of 8-A feats an outlier. An outlier would entail they heavily struggled when performing the Tier 8 feats. It's also only a possibly 6-C due to it just being a statement.

Now in terms of it being a joke or a serious response, I'm unsure. I'll remain neutral on that point but I disagree with the "they only have tier 8 feats and one 6-C statement so it's an outlier" argument, it's only an outlier if they were exerting actual effort with those tier 8 feats. Though this is my thoughts regarding if it's an outlier. If more staff agree it is one then it is what it is.

 

[Dalesean027]

Now in terms of it being a joke or a serious response, I'm unsure. I'll remain neutral on that point but I disagree with the "they only have tier 8 feats and one 6-C statement so it's an outlier" argument, it's only an outlier if they were exerting actual effort with those tier 8 feats. Though this is my thoughts regarding if it's an outlier. If more staff agree it is one then it is what it is.

You're absolutely correct in that regard I mean I can't really say much exactly because its just a possibly rating so like that kinda covers the gripes with it so like idk ig its fine

 

[Flashlight237]

I personally agree with this being an outlier regardless as to whether it's serious or not. The gap between 8-A (at least 100 tons at the base) and 6-C (at least 4.3 gigatons at the base, though some prefer 4.6 gigatons) is such a huge gap (I'm talking 7 orders of magnitude) that it is realistically a statistical outlier, and these things are normally charted on a logarithmic scale rather than anything linear. That and while one can defend it with the "Possibly" rating, since there is no shaking anywhere, what's even the point if the visuals don't match?

 

[Propellus]

And like I've said before, every single one of the tier 8 feats listed in the verse page is ultra casual, including that baseline 8-A feat which are heavily upscaled to. And without anti-feats otherwise within performing these feats, then what is even the issue of a 6-C statement somehow being an outlier? Like there is already a reason why it's a possibly to begin with. First of all, it's vague and it's otherwise just a statement either way

 

[Psychomaster35]

I’m neutral on this, but should this be treated as serious rather than a joke, I’d say you can keep the tiering as it is if all of their feats below that were done casually (Which Prop pretty much said).

 

[Flashlight237]

And like I've said before, every single one of the tier 8 feats listed in the verse page is ultra casual, including that baseline 8-A feat which are heavily upscaled to.

I can ultra casually pick up my TI-83 yet I struggle to lift 80 lbs. Those things are not 7 orders of magnitude apart.

 

[Propellus]

I can ultra casually pick up my TI-83 yet I struggle to lift 80 lbs. Those things are not 7 orders of magnitude apart.

Okay? How is that equivalent to anything I've said?

 

[Arceus0x]

Jokes on you, I have actually calced Krypto ranging around High 7-C and 7-C+ based on his KE on a document but I have never uploaded it onto the wiki because it breaks Kinetic Energy rules, and it was rather experimental to begin with.

i can make like 50 calcs that are tier High 7-A to high tier 6 with my verses while breaking the KE rules, that's why KE rules exist in the first place so, doesn't matter.

So first of all, I'm just going to ask, do you even understand how the "possibly" rating mechanic works around this wiki when it comes to statements like this one? Because really literally all of the tier 8 feats that I've seen in the show are ultra casual and so far there hasn't been necessarily been any anti-feats against those at all.

while i see where you're coming from my issue is the nature of the feats presented before and now. Feats aren't only energy based, they are also logic based. A character who has mostly destroyed buildings, small meteors, a large wave is usually expected to have urban level feats so if he blocked a city destroying bombs or something i'd get it but this feat, shaking the damn moon of all things, is on a completely different logical level, as he isn't affecting a building, a city, a country or even a continent, he's affecting the damn moon. I think you can see that there's a big leap not only in energy for this but also in logic. How is it logical for Krypto to go from below urban tier 8 feats to shaking an object 1/9th the size of the planet? There's no writing logic in this either. If there was another tier 6 feat lying around then i guess i could let this pass but no, there ain't, there's a 8-B+ feat from which he upscales to 8-A and an 8-C feat.
This is a logical and energy based outlier.
Also this is what the possibly rating says: "Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly."
Yes the description can be vague but this doesn't mean that your description holds any substance at all beyond a joke without any feat attached to it that is a logical and an energetic outlier that is over 4 million times larger than anything we've seen done in the show unless you have some random tier 7 or 6 feat you never touched lying around the room. Additionally, if we used the logic of taking the statements such as this feat and applied it to all profiles anyone who stated they could destroy the world would get a 5-B or high 6-A feat since strictly speaking if we don't the manner it's still about as vague as the 6-C statement used in these profiles.

And even then, we have no idea if Bull Dog was just simply "joking" after Mammoth Mutt pulled off a stunt like that one so we do not know if that just being a pun is the case here. And even then he still warned them not to accidentally "rock" (Considering how Bull Dog speaks in a British accent, he literally means "to shake") the moon. And using that logic of him already being able to shake the moon, he was literally just pulling his strength onto that rock either way so the scenario won't happen. And also, did I need to mention that they're comparable to Krypto who can casually shake areas onto these scenarios? And even then, it's otherwise just a statement alone that wouldn't even be concrete enough to be sufficient for a full on 6-C upgrade anyway.

Actually we do have an idea. The "stunt" like that is literally her bouncing about the moon, nothing bigger than what the average austronaut would/could do and making a flag fall down ain't nothing special either. Nobody shook the moon and it's clear that nobody would. He also wasn't just pulling his strength into the rock he literally started drilling into it at the end of the gif while the rock is on the moon's surface. Do you know how hard drills drill? Cause my neighbors f-ing don't that's for sure. Anyways this is still just a joke and a pun without real substance, supporting feats and is a logical and numerial outlier that shouldn't be here.
finally, you say that Krypto can shake areas and yet you bring no scans whatsoever. Bring them to me. I want to see them. If they hold any substance and are close to the feat described in energy then i'll agree with you but if it's local shaking that can't even be calculated by our standards then i won't.

Also i'd like to elaborate, the moon shaking feat shouldn't be automatically assumed to be 6-C. Magnitude V is something that is 100% sure felt by everyone and can and often will cause structural damage. Problem is, Mag III-IV are also felt very much, they just don't cause such destruction. If this was stated to be a full on moonquake then yes i'd agree with you but in this case it is a hyper-vague statement about shaking or rocking the moon, which in this case could be as low as magnitude 2 or at least 3.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Were there lower AP feats after the scene happened if I may ask?

 

[Starter_Pack]

I am going to remain on the fence for the time being, though both Arceus and Propellus have very solid cases, though I am honestly starting to lean towards Arceus' logic much to my dismay. I will let this cook a little longer, however, especially since I don't really have much to add myself here.

 

[Lonkitt]

Seeing both arguments, I'm in a similar camp as Starter_Pack. Perhaps this can be remedied with the new feats mentioned earlier

 

[ImmortalDread]

Were there lower AP feats after the scene happened if I may ask?

Bump; it may change the flow of discussion in my opinion.

 

[Propellus]

Were there lower AP feats after the scene happened if I may ask?

While's I'm still working on my counter argument, what do you mean?

 

[ImmortalDread]

I meant; what was the average rating on the later feats after this one?

 

[Arceus0x]

I meant; what was the average rating on the later feats after this one?

The only other 2 feats are 8-C and 8-A

 

[ImmortalDread]

Well, I don't think outlier argument is bad then. But I will wait for counter-arguments.

 

[Propellus]

while i see where you're coming from my issue is the nature of the feats presented before and now. Feats aren't only energy based, they are also logic based. A character who has mostly destroyed buildings, small meteors, a large wave is usually expected to have urban level feats so if he blocked a city destroying bombs or something i'd get it but this feat, shaking the damn moon of all things, is on a completely different logical level, as he isn't affecting a building, a city, a country or even a continent, he's affecting the damn moon. I think you can see that there's a big leap not only in energy for this but also in logic. How is it logical for Krypto to go from below urban tier 8 feats to shaking an object 1/9th the size of the planet? There's no writing logic in this either. If there was another tier 6 feat lying around then i guess i could let this pass but no, there ain't, there's a 8-B+ feat from which he upscales to 8-A and an 8-C feat.
This is a logical and energy based outlier.
Also this is what the possibly rating says: "Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive. The probability of the justification in question for being reliable should be notable, but mild. This term should be used sparingly."
Yes the description can be vague but this doesn't mean that your description holds any substance at all beyond a joke without any feat attached to it that is a logical and an energetic outlier that is over 4 million times larger than anything we've seen done in the show unless you have some random tier 7 or 6 feat you never touched lying around the room. Additionally, if we used the logic of taking the statements such as this feat and applied it to all profiles anyone who stated they could destroy the world would get a 5-B or high 6-A feat since strictly speaking if we don't the manner it's still about as vague as the 6-C statement used in these profiles.

Reading through these first lines so far, I'm literally starting to be convinced that you've missed the point in what I was asking for your knowledgeable in the "possibly" mechanic. I mean sure, you strive for more logical numbers, but at the same time, you could literally just be saying the same thing for other characters even though they have much different context for why they're possibly higher than their most consistent showings. And oh, considering the fact that you brought up stuff like shaking building, cities, country, or whole continents would have even lower earthquake values (literally even more than the whole Mercalli scale itself) than the whole moon itself as those have much much much weaker masses either way, what even is your point? And also, like Griffin said in a few messages up, an outlier is only when a character actively struggles performing the tier 8 feats and somehow pulling out a tier 6 feat out of their asses out of nowhere. And so far, I have seen none of that being into question with these feats and saying this once again, IT'S. JUST. A. STATEMENT. POINT. BLANK. You don't necessarily need to have feats happening during a whole statement just for a requirement for the possibly mechanic, but then it has to make sense in it being more specific. And even then, nobody even touches the "destroying the world" statements either way as they could literally mean other things such as wiping out a whole city, country, or even surface wiping. And either then it's rather just a hyperbole most of the time-being. So that example has no bearing onto this topic whatsoever.

Actually we do have an idea. The "stunt" like that is literally her bouncing about the moon, nothing bigger than what the average austronaut would/could do and making a flag fall down ain't nothing special either. Nobody shook the moon and it's clear that nobody would. He also wasn't just pulling his strength into the rock he literally started drilling into it at the end of the gif while the rock is on the moon's surface. Do you know how hard drills drill? Cause my neighbors f-ing don't that's for sure. Anyways this is still just a joke and a pun without real substance, supporting feats and is a logical and numerial outlier that shouldn't be here.
finally, you say that Krypto can shake areas and yet you bring no scans whatsoever. Bring them to me. I want to see them. If they hold any substance and are close to the feat described in energy then i'll agree with you but if it's local shaking that can't even be calculated by our standards then i won't.

Also i'd like to elaborate, the moon shaking feat shouldn't be automatically assumed to be 6-C. Magnitude V is something that is 100% sure felt by everyone and can and often will cause structural damage. Problem is, Mag III-IV are also felt very much, they just don't cause such destruction. If this was stated to be a full on moonquake then yes i'd agree with you but in this case it is a hyper-vague statement about shaking or rocking the moon, which in this case could be as low as magnitude 2 or at least 3.

And no, we really don't at all. Why would Bull Dog just say something like that out of nowhere after what Mammoth Mutt was doing? And Bull Dog wasn't even laughing at all what he said after that either, and with that logic, I suppose average astronauts can literally just dig holes through the moon itself with their own bare strength if that's even possible? Is that what I'm getting at here? And yes he definitely was pulling his strength, did you even really pay attention to what's happening at all in the scan? He was literally just smashing the rock in small amounts piece by piece slowly. And I do see that I really do mention these, what do you call these two scenarios put together? And I have an even more question to ask you again, did you even pay attention to the descriptions listed in the Mercalli scale? Because then again at the same time, if it was any lower, they wouldn't even feel the moon even shaking at all either way, and Bull Dog would have never even said that then.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'll respond tomorrow

 

[Propellus]

I'm counting on it

 

[Arceus0x]

Reading through these first lines so far, I'm literally starting to be convinced that you've missed the point in what I was asking for your knowledgeable in the "possibly" mechanic. I mean sure, you strive for more logical numbers, but at the same time, you could literally just be saying the same thing for other characters even though they have much different context for why they're possibly higher than their most consistent showings.

I don't just strive for logical numbers, i strive for logical consistency. An character whose feats at most affect buildings shouldn't be jumping to shaking a spatial object.

And oh, considering the fact that you brought up stuff like shaking building, cities, country, or whole continents would have even lower earthquake values (literally even more than the whole Mercalli scale itself) than the whole moon itself as those have much much much weaker masses either way, what even is your point?

the point being that there are several logical steps between shaking a city a country a continent and the moon and despite that your characters have shown at most structural damage and their best feat is destroying a wave.

And also, like Griffin said in a few messages up, an outlier is only when a character actively struggles performing the tier 8 feats and somehow pulling out a tier 6 feat out of their asses out of nowhere.

Then that is a weird unwritten rule because the guidelines for the outlier are right there in the outlier page and one of them is whether the feat is a big jump from several consisten feats and is only ignored when the character has few feats, which isn't the case here because krypto has several tier 9 to 8 feats throghout the series as you've shown me before (idk why only 2 are calced) and 0 tier 7 and 6 feats which means it would fall perfectly with the guidelines since it's a massive jump in a verse where the best feat overall is tier 8 and the rest are lower tier 8s and 9s.

And so far, I have seen none of that being into question with these feats and saying this once again, IT'S. JUST. A. STATEMENT. POINT. BLANK. You don't necessarily need to have feats happening during a whole statement just for a requirement for the possibly mechanic, but then it has to make sense in it being more specific. And even then, nobody even touches the "destroying the world" statements either way as they could literally mean other things such as wiping out a whole city, country, or even surface wiping. And either then it's rather just a hyperbole most of the time-being. So that example has no bearing onto this topic whatsoever.

it does bear logic because of how vague both are but that is more tied to the next part

And no, we really don't at all. Why would Bull Dog just say something like that out of nowhere after what Mammoth Mutt was doing?

cause it is a pun? rocking something can be seen as basically a statement to cause ruckus as well i mean that's basically why people rock the house or the stage when they give a good and chaotic preformance. Also saying it is a point blank statement is bs it's vague as hell.

And Bull Dog wasn't even laughing at all what he said after that either,

doesn't matter, puns and wordplay are used constantly throughout speech without it being a joke that is meant to be funny.

and with that logic, I suppose average astronauts can literally just dig holes through the moon itself with their own bare strength if that's even possible? Is that what I'm getting at here?

what the hell are you even talking about here? like cool they can dig with their own strength and we see that them exerting strength doesn't suddenly cause massive continent spanning earthquakes while exerting strength on the city so clearly a dog bouncing around the moon ain't gonna cause a moon-spanning earthquake.

And yes he definitely was pulling his strength, did you even really pay attention to what's happening at all in the scan? He was literally just smashing the rock in small amounts piece by piece slowly.

doesn't really matter when he commented on the rocking the moon thing after the mutt just bounced around it.

And I do see that I really do mention these, what do you call these two scenarios put together?

second one's useless, the first one i have no clue why you haven't calced yet, it's a massive feat that is most likely in tier 7 and higher range. Also Krypto does those feats, i see no evidence of others doing that.

And I have an even more question to ask you again, did you even pay attention to the descriptions listed in the Mercalli scale? Because then again at the same time, if it was any lower, they wouldn't even feel the moon even shaking at all either way, and Bull Dog would have never even said that then.

they actually would. It's you who clearly failed to read: III: "Felt quite noticeably by people indoors, especially on upper floors of buildings: Many people do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing vehicles may rock slightly. Vibrations are similar to the passing of a truck, with duration estimated."
IV: "Felt indoors by many, outdoors by few during the day: At night, some are awakened. Dishes, windows, and doors are disturbed; walls make cracking sounds. Sensations are like a heavy truck striking a building. Standing vehicles are rocked noticeably."

Some people outdoors may not sense it that well but
1. the characters here are superpowered dogs which by default means their senses are far greater than that of a human (animals deadass sense earthquakes even before they happen)
2. speaking from personal experience with several earthquakes, mag 3-4 is easily felt. mag 5 is VERY obvious to any human and beyond that it's basically near impossible not to notice.

Next up i would also like to say a few things.
Could you please tell me the logic as to why it is a warning specifically not to shake the moon in the first place? Who cares if they cause a moonquake, nobody's there anyways, literally doesn't matter. This leads to the following:
Him saying they need to collect rocks and not rock the moon is just a play on words but it's true meaning is him just saying that they need to stop fooling around and begin collecting rocks.

Overall: you've a better chance at scaling the massive earthquake feat you showed me to high tiers instead of arguing this foolishness any further.

 

[Propellus]

I don't just strive for logical numbers, i strive for logical consistency. An character whose feats at most affect buildings shouldn't be jumping to shaking a spatial object.

Mhm, and again you could literally just be saying that to other verses who's best feats so far are around tier 6 and their possibly peak is like tier 4 to 2. Which is besides the point either way

the point being that there are several logical steps between shaking a city a country a continent and the moon and despite that your characters have shown at most structural damage and their best feat is destroying a wave.

Doesn't matter, because like I've said before, cities, countries, etc. has even less masses than the literal moon itself and would have even laughably lower values if you were to take into account of using the Mercalli scale. So I don't see what you're really wanting out of that.

Then that is a weird unwritten rule because the guidelines for the outlier are right there in the outlier page and one of them is whether the feat is a big jump from several consisten feats and is only ignored when the character has few feats, which isn't the case here because krypto has several tier 9 to 8 feats throghout the series as you've shown me before (idk why only 2 are calced) and 0 tier 7 and 6 feats which means it would fall perfectly with the guidelines since it's a massive jump in a verse where the best feat overall is tier 8 and the rest are lower tier 8s and 9s.

Either you make a separate thread right now explaining the issue of the context of how outliers work if it's an unwritten rule to you. Because right now, your argument about this topic is not looking too good on you nor is it really helping your case.

it does bear logic because of how vague both are but that is more tied to the next part

And now you're contradicting yourself here, you literally just compared this statement to one of those generic "world destroying" statements which I've already explained in specific detail of why they're not always in session.

cause it is a pun? rocking something can be seen as basically a statement to cause ruckus as well i mean that's basically why people rock the house or the stage when they give a good and chaotic preformance. Also saying it is a point blank statement is bs it's vague as hell.

Again, Bull Dog speaks in a British accent, the way he used the word "rock" in that context would literally mean shaking. And if he was joking, it wouldn't even have made sense why he'd be saying that either way. And you didn't give proof either if he was even really joking or not. and surprise, surprise, that's how possibly mechanic works around here if you're just going to continue on nitpicking the fact that it's vague.

doesn't matter, puns and wordplay are used constantly throughout speech without it being a joke that is meant to be funny.

See above.

what the hell are you even talking about here? like cool they can dig with their own strength and we see that them exerting strength doesn't suddenly cause massive continent spanning earthquakes while exerting strength on the city so clearly a dog bouncing around the moon ain't gonna cause a moon-spanning earthquake.

And during the context of that scenario, they were literally just trying to catch Krypto's tail after Krypto got exposed to Red Kryptonite. And I've told you this before, Destructive Capacity doesn't equate to Attack Potency everytime. Otherwise you could literally just be saying that an average city buster can erase whole cities out of existence and yet their battles doesn't even lead to more destruction either way.

doesn't really matter when he commented on the rocking the moon thing after the mutt just bounced around it.

See the fifth reply above.

second one's useless, the first one i have no clue why you haven't calced yet, it's a massive feat that is most likely in tier 7 and higher range. Also Krypto does those feats, i see no evidence of others doing that.

Still a supporting example either way. And also I just merely thought that it could just be another supporting feat, but since you raise an idea for that, it may actually work. And it doesn't matter if Krypto only does those feats, because the Dog Stars scale to him for consistently harming him.

they actually would. It's you who clearly failed to read: III: "Felt quite noticeably by people indoors, especially on upper floors of buildings: Many people do not recognize it as an earthquake. Standing vehicles may rock slightly. Vibrations are similar to the passing of a truck, with duration estimated."
IV: "Felt indoors by many, outdoors by few during the day: At night, some are awakened. Dishes, windows, and doors are disturbed; walls make cracking sounds. Sensations are like a heavy truck striking a building. Standing vehicles are rocked noticeably."

Some people outdoors may not sense it that well but
1. the characters here are superpowered dogs which by default means their senses are far greater than that of a human (animals deadass sense earthquakes even before they happen)
2. speaking from personal experience with several earthquakes, mag 3-4 is easily felt. mag 5 is VERY obvious to any human and beyond that it's basically near impossible not to notice.

And Mag 5 clearly says felt by almost everyone, although you do slightly have a point that they're dogs. But even then we usually assume a Magnitude of 4 for shaking feats if the range is rather unknown. So I don't really see your point.

Next up i would also like to say a few things.
Could you please tell me the logic as to why it is a warning specifically not to shake the moon in the first place? Who cares if they cause a moonquake, nobody's there anyways, literally doesn't matter. This leads to the following:
Him saying they need to collect rocks and not rock the moon is just a play on words but it's true meaning is him just saying that they need to stop fooling around and begin collecting rocks.

And also, I don't think you're even paying attention at all to what the scan is about if you're straight going to claim that "nobody's there" when it's obviously towards everyone who was on that moon, and if nobody was really there, what is even the point of the statement in the first place?

 

[Arceus0x]

Mhm, and again you could literally just be saying that to other verses who's best feats so far are around tier 6 and their possibly peak is like tier 4 to 2. Which is besides the point either way

and they have their own context and inconsistencies, not to mention most verses with such jumps are video game verses which have their own scaling logic. You are scaling a show that has consistent feats, not a JRPG, so don't look at other verses or at the very least look at shows and how they go through their tiers bit by bit.

Doesn't matter, because like I've said before, cities, countries, etc. has even less masses than the literal moon itself and would have even laughably lower values if you were to take into account of using the Mercalli scale. So I don't see what you're really wanting out of that.

i guess you don't see the logical difference in shaking a moon and shaking a city, mkay

Either you make a separate thread right now explaining the issue of the context of how outliers work if it's an unwritten rule to you. Because right now, your argument about this topic is not looking too good on you nor is it really helping your case.

except it is because i am backed up by guidelines from the outliers page

And now you're contradicting yourself here, you literally just compared this statement to one of those generic "world destroying" statements which I've already explained in specific detail of why they're not always in session.

both are vague but yours is vaguer

Again, Bull Dog speaks in a British accent,

like that matters, stop acting like it's a different language, it's literally just a word in english

the way he used the word "rock" in that context would literally mean shaking.

yes i know but if you can't understand that it's basic wordplay then you i don't know what to tell you except to watch some shows other than saturday morning cartoons

And if he was joking, it wouldn't even have made sense why he'd be saying that either way. And you didn't give proof either if he was even really joking or not. and surprise, surprise, that's how possibly mechanic works around here if you're just going to continue on nitpicking the fact that it's vague.

you think you did something here but you didn't. Do you have some alien understanding that something always needs to be a funny joke? Do you not see the wordplay between collecting rocks from the moon and rocking the moon? It makes sense because it is a throwaway line, a thing you say for the sake of saying it. People speak Prop, and they like it when it sounds nice and such things make it sound nice. I don't need proof for this it's basic knowledge in human conversation. He saw others messing around, told them to stop messing around and get working in a clever way, that's it, i don't see what is so hard to understand. And yes i will continue to nitpick because it is vague as hell.

See above.

same to you

And during the context of that scenario, they were literally just trying to catch Krypto's tail after Krypto got exposed to Red Kryptonite. And I've told you this before, Destructive Capacity doesn't equate to Attack Potency everytime. Otherwise you could literally just be saying that an average city buster can erase whole cities out of existence and yet their battles doesn't even lead to more destruction either way.

and yet when the dogs were at most bouncing around the moon a guy says some wordplay mentioning rocking the moon and you immediately jump the gun and say he absolutely was scared that they would shake the moon when even when fighting seriously the characters from the show never cause any mass destruction in the city they're in, consistently. There's absolutely no reason for him to be worried that they are shaking the moon because they weren't going to suddenly start violently blasting it apart like they did on earth 2 minutes later. even then that didn't cause any massive earthquake so what the heck are you even arguing about here?

See the fifth reply above.

same to you

Still a supporting example either way.

sure, definitely not support for shaking a 3.5 thousand kilometer wide moon though

And also I just merely thought that it could just be another supporting feat, but since you raise an idea for that, it may actually work. And it doesn't matter if Krypto only does those feats, because the Dog Stars scale to him for consistently harming him.

but this isn't the question. The dogs that are warned are the dogs that haven't shown this ability.

And Mag 5 clearly says felt by almost everyone, although you do slightly have a point that they're dogs. But even then we usually assume a Magnitude of 4 for shaking feats if the range is rather unknown. So I don't really see your point.

simple, it could be any level that is felt. Mag 5 is for pronounced earthquake. Rocking something =/= causing an earthquake, it just means to shake, which could be any level of shaking that is felt.

And also, I don't think you're even paying attention at all to what the scan is about if you're straight going to claim that "nobody's there" when it's obviously towards everyone who was on that moon,

ah yes, the superhuman 8-A but presumably 6-C tier dogs who melt meteors with their attacks, a small earthquake will SO harm them especially when they're the ones causing them!!!!! they totally need to be warned specifically about not causing a minor earthquake because this completely mountainless desert of a place will totally have something major fall on them due to the earthquake!!! There's totally a threat guys to literally superman dog here!!!

and if nobody was really there, what is even the point of the statement in the first place?

that's where i say that you are the one not paying attention because THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT I WAS SAYING
He was saying a THROWAWAY LINE to TELL THEM TO STOP MESSING AROUND and get to work in a fun way. It's literally just that.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't consider them having a single 6-C feat with a bunch of 8-A feats an outlier. An outlier would entail they heavily struggled when performing the Tier 8 feats. It's also only a possibly 6-C due to it just being a statement.

Now in terms of it being a joke or a serious response, I'm unsure. I'll remain neutral on that point but I disagree with the "they only have tier 8 feats and one 6-C statement so it's an outlier" argument, it's only an outlier if they were exerting actual effort with those tier 8 feats. Though this is my thoughts regarding if it's an outlier. If more staff agree it is one then it is what it is.

I agree with this personally.

 

[Propellus]

and they have their own context and inconsistencies, not to mention most verses with such jumps are video game verses which have their own scaling logic. You are scaling a show that has consistent feats, not a JRPG, so don't look at other verses or at the very least look at shows and how they go through their tiers bit by bit.

Yep, because like I've said, they're all casual Tier 8 feats with no hint of any other actual anti-feat coming into play, which you haven't addressed many times.

i guess you don't see the logical difference in shaking a moon and shaking a city, mkay

I actually did and actually explained the details and consequences behind those, which you never paid attention to the whole time. So don't say that.

except it is because i am backed up by guidelines from the outliers page

And now you continue to contradict yourself even more, you literally just said it was an "unwritten rule" and now suddenly you're claiming that you're backed up by the outlier page. And so far, you mentioned none of that.

both are vague but yours is vaguer

I ain't gonna entertain you.

like that matters, stop acting like it's a different language, it's literally just a word in english

You're the one claiming that it's so much of a pun that we clearly don't know if it was actually intended to be in the first place. And cool strawman, I only brought it up because of the way he uses it in that context.

yes i know but if you can't understand that it's basic wordplay then you i don't know what to tell you except to watch some shows other than saturday morning cartoons

And yet here you are claiming that it's so much of a "pun" and accusing me of saying it's another language.

you think you did something here but you didn't. Do you have some alien understanding that something always needs to be a funny joke? Do you not see the wordplay between collecting rocks from the moon and rocking the moon? It makes sense because it is a throwaway line, a thing you say for the sake of saying it. People speak Prop, and they like it when it sounds nice and such things make it sound nice. I don't need proof for this it's basic knowledge in human conversation. He saw others messing around, told them to stop messing around and get working in a clever way, that's it, i don't see what is so hard to understand. And yes i will continue to nitpick because it is vague as hell.

And please don't try and insult my intelligence here, and take stuff out of context. Yes he did tell them to stop messing around, I never denied that. But literally the point being is that we can't really tell if he was even really joking to begin with after what Mammoth Mutt was doing what she was doing. And again it's rather just a statement.

same to you

I ain't gonna entertain you.

and yet when the dogs were at most bouncing around the moon a guy says some wordplay mentioning rocking the moon and you immediately jump the gun and say he absolutely was scared that they would shake the moon when even when fighting seriously the characters from the show never cause any mass destruction in the city they're in, consistently. There's absolutely no reason for him to be worried that they are shaking the moon because they weren't going to suddenly start violently blasting it apart like they did on earth 2 minutes later. even then that didn't cause any massive earthquake so what the heck are you even arguing about here?

Again, DESTRUCTIVE. CAPACITY. DOESN'T. EQUAL. ATTACK. POTENCY.

same to you

I ain't gonna entertain you.

sure, definitely not support for shaking a 3.5 thousand kilometer wide moon though

Except it kinda does.

but this isn't the question. The dogs that are warned are the dogs that haven't shown this ability.

Then what are you really asking? And even then they don't need to have the same ability as Krypto in order to scale as a requirement.

simple, it could be any level that is felt. Mag 5 is for pronounced earthquake. Rocking something =/= causing an earthquake, it just means to shake, which could be any level of shaking that is felt.

And the possiblity here is still unquantifiable. And I've already said why "rocking" could be the equivalent to shaking prior to Bull Dog's context with words.

ah yes, the superhuman 8-A but presumably 6-C tier dogs who melt meteors with their attacks, a small earthquake will SO harm them especially when they're the ones causing them!!!!! they totally need to be warned specifically about not causing a minor earthquake because this completely mountainless desert of a place will totally have something major fall on them due to the earthquake!!! There's totally a threat guys to literally superman dog here!!!

I ain't gonna be entertaining you.

But honestly, I'll just stop replying here for a while and relax when I feel like I'm ready again. Because I already feel like I'm having a headache.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yep, because like I've said, they're all casual Tier 8 feats with no hint of any other actual anti-feat coming into play, which you haven't addressed many times.

I am not showing antifeats because i haven't watched the show, but so far I've seen them struggle against a golem whose best feat was ripping off a roof and they struggled somewhat to lift a road this one time.

And now you continue to contradict yourself even more, you literally just said it was an "unwritten rule" and now suddenly you're claiming that you're backed up by the outlier page. And so far, you mentioned none of that.

Where's the contradiction???? You are arguing using a statement from a staff member made above, i am arguing using things that are legitimately written in the outlier page. How hard is it to understand that?

I ain't gonna entertain you.

Maaan you're so good at arguing

You're the one claiming that it's so much of a pun that we clearly don't know if it was actually intended to be in the first place. And cool strawman, I only brought it up because of the way he uses it in that context.

We do it's literally a pun there's nothing special about it.

And yet here you are claiming that it's so much of a "pun" and accusing me of saying it's another language.

Yes, it's a pun, British accent doesn't mean it has some special meaning all of a sudden.

And please don't try and insult my intelligence here, and take stuff out of context. Yes he did tell them to stop messing around, I never denied that. But literally the point being is that we can't really tell if he was even really joking to begin with after what Mammoth Mutt was doing what she was doing. And again it's rather just a statement.

Never insulted your intellect, only your understanding of this entire ordeal. You are just saying "well no we don't know what he meant" when it's actually clear as day when you look at it properly. It's just a word play way of saying that they shouldn't be messing around. Mammoth mutt did NOTHING, she bounced around. She didn't cause any damage or shaking.

I ain't gonna entertain you.

Same as before, moving on

Again, DESTRUCTIVE. CAPACITY. DOESN'T. EQUAL. ATTACK. POTENCY.

Except this is DIRECTLY CONNECTED to destructive capacity. This argument works if character X scales to character Z who did a 50 ton feat while X never does any 50 ton feats. Despite that Z does need to do a 50 ton feat so that the scaling exists in the first place.
In your case there is no scaling because there is NO FEAT besides a vague statement. A FEAT IS DESTRUCTIVE CAPACITY, it's literal point is A does B which has an energy value of C. If characters never cause continent wide earthquakes while on earth despite fighting and attacking the ground, why would they suddenly do that when they're on the moon? It makes no sense at all.

I ain't gonna entertain you.

Same as before, L

Except it kinda does.

First one definitely doesn't and the second one is still an earthquake that covers a few kilometers and not an entire moon.

Then what are you really asking? And even then they don't need to have the same ability as Krypto in order to scale as a requirement.

They do because THEY are the ones warned not to shake the moon and not Krypto. If Krypto was messing around and he was told that he shouldn't rock the moon then there'd be at least some consistency but so far all i see is characters who've never caused an earthquake especially of that size while causing damage to the ground messing around casually and being warned.

And the possiblity here is still unquantifiable. And I've already said why "rocking" could be the equivalent to shaking prior to Bull Dog's context with words.

Just because something has some meaning doesn't mean it's that specific meaning. Like i said before it's literally just a way of saying to stop messing around and the characters who are warned have 0 supporting feats of comparable levels of destruction.

I ain't gonna be entertaining you.

Neither will I

But honestly, I'll just stop replying here for a while and relax when I feel like I'm ready again. Because I already feel like I'm having a headache.

I find this acceptable since I'd rather not get an aneurism from arguing with you.

 

[Crabwhale]

Yeah, I'm with Arceus on this one. Giving such a superior rating, even a "possibly" over what easily could be a joke isn't something I support.

 

[Arceus0x]

But honestly, I'll just stop replying here for a while and relax when I feel like I'm ready again. Because I already feel like I'm having a headache.

Hey Prop i wanna negotiate.
After mulling over our argument what will happen as practically a guarantee is that you and I are gonna keep arguing for days til we start going round and round in circles of arguments that can be summed up to "nuh-uh".
If that goes on we're basically never gonna have a conclusion that is satisfying in any way.

I propose 2 things.
1. Calc the earthquake feat you had there first. The jungle one. It could support your arguments properly since it's way higher than anything shown before.
2. Once you're done let's carefully write out our arguments in separate long messages and let staff read them and come to a proper conclusion.

If we don't do that then staff will probably slowly give up on reading our long winding arguments and either keep agreeing with what was agreed on before by admins which is either a neutral stance or a disagreement or they'd just ignore it entirely.

If we organize it all now and you do that calc then it'd be beneficial for both of our brains and time and if you do the calc it'd be an automatic buff from 8-A and support for for your arguments.

 

[Propellus]

Hey Prop i wanna negotiate.
After mulling over our argument what will happen as practically a guarantee is that you and I are gonna keep arguing for days til we start going round and round in circles of arguments that can be summed up to "nuh-uh".
If that goes on we're basically never gonna have a conclusion that is satisfying in any way.

I was thinking of the consequences would come around if we're going to just have circular arguments back and forth without any solid conclusion. But I suppose this could work.

I propose 2 things.
1. Calc the earthquake feat you had there first. The jungle one. It could support your arguments properly since it's way higher than anything shown before.

That would require me to at least find some of the distance that was affected to properly calculate the earthquake feat as this took place in the Brazilian Rainforest. But I'll ask a CGM if it's possible.

2. Once you're done let's carefully write out our arguments in separate long messages and let staff read them and come to a proper conclusion.

If we don't do that then staff will probably slowly give up on reading our long winding arguments and either keep agreeing with what was agreed on before by admins which is either a neutral stance or a disagreement or they'd just ignore it entirely.

If we organize it all now and you do that calc then it'd be beneficial for both of our brains and time and if you do the calc it'd be an automatic buff from 8-A and support for for your arguments.

Yeah, fair enough.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

@Propellus and @Arceus0x in this thread:

 

[Propellus]

@Propellus and @Arceus0x in this thread:

I mean, technically you would have that same kind of determination to save your verse from a potential downgrade as whole depending on the context.